32 comments to “Terry Schiavo is already dead, you fucking morons”

1. Kevin:
   21 March 2005, on 11:45 am

   I couldn’t have said it better myself. This whole thing is political gold for Bush crowd. They get top look strong on a ‘moral’ issue, the fight promises to be long and loud with lots of gfree press, the orthoxy of the xians is clear, and it will take steam away from all the issues that revolve around the real world fuck-ups of their Bushy lord. They’re going to milk this one at least untill the 2006 mid-term elections, unless by some tremendous act of competency the courts defy congess and let this poor lady die.

2. vjack:
   21 March 2005, on 6:02 pm

   Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. This is nothing more than a disgusting attempt to derive political gain from a family’s tragedy. They should be ashamed!

3. Ronnie:
   22 March 2005, on 8:31 am

   There is a way that seems right to man, but in the end thereof is death.

4. Bob:
   22 March 2005, on 9:34 am

   I was also struck not just by the culture-of-life bullshit, but by the dipshit parents, getting on the tube, pleading with Jeb, Dubya, and anyone else to “save her little girl.” Bleck.

5. Frank:
   22 March 2005, on 9:55 am

   This is a tough situation all the way around. I am, however, influenced by the actions of Terri’s “husband”, Michael. Here is a guy who has refused to allow doctors to engage in any kind of rehab therapy. He didn’t waste any time in abdicating his spousal responsibilities and quickly shacked up with some other woman and has been raising kids with her for the past 10 years … and now he wants to exercise his authority as Terri’s husband? His life, it seems, has been dedicated to killing Terri. And why? Insurance money? Convenience? What? Others have offered to assume full responsibility for Terri’s care and even offered Michael loads of money to sign over legal guardianship and he has insisted on killling her.

   It may be that she has no hope for recovery but every effort should be exhausted before that determination is made … and hardly any effort has been made yet. Thanks to Michael.

   And Bob, unless you’ve had a daughter in a similar situation you might want to reserve your comments concerning Terri’s parents and their desire to “save their little girl.” None of us know to what lengths we’d go to save our daughter if we found ourselves in a similar situation.

6. sharona:
   22 March 2005, on 10:06 am

   Um, no amount of therapy can fix the brain when brain chemicals go seriously wrong (as they did in TS’s case). Moving her arms and legs for any number of years might prevent atrophy of muscles, but it won’t miraculously regrow a brain. The man, as her husband, whom she had told any number of times, “I do NOT want to live as a vegetable,” should be given the common courtesy to speak for her.

   She’s been in this condition for 15 years (which shows that her husband had a bit more restraint on his part in going out and shacking up with someone than, oh, let’s say Newt Gingrich, a big fat republican who likes to talk about moral values while ignoring his own depravity). We are only coming in on the last year or so of this battle. And what I can’t figure out is this: If she’s a big ol’ christian, won’t she immediately be embraced by her god upon death and invited into the big heaven party? What the hell? Either heaven is not cracked up to what all the nuts say it is, or they are having some doubts about its aleged existance.

   Inconsistency in their arguments? If heaven is all that, then let her go to her reward. If it’s not, then let her die in dignity. Jayzus. This is why I hate religious nuts.

7. John:
   22 March 2005, on 10:13 am

   Hmm. After parroting the right-wing talking points about Michael Schiavo, Frank Chastizeizes Bob for “passing judgement” on Terri’s parents. Kind of odd, given how quick you are to pass judgement on Michael — the one person in the best place to know Terri’s wishes, and the person empowered by law to act on them. Terri’s brain is meat loaf; he recognized that, and tried to honor her wishes. As for “shacking up” and the rest of it, fuck you and your Xian judgment. For all you know, Terri’s wishes were that if she were to die (or permanently lose conscious life), that he should try to have a rich and full life after her. It’s what I’d want for my spouse.

   Pretty clear who’s the judgmental jerk here. Wasn’t there some Xian crap about “judge not, lest…” of something? I guess that part of the J-man’s message is in the same trash bin as the “camel through the eye of the needle” stuff.

8. Ron:
   22 March 2005, on 10:29 am

   If anyone cares, the results of the House roll-call vote on the Terry Schiavo bill are here: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll090.xml

   And, much as I hate the ‘Publicans, there’s a lot of Dems playing the pandering game here too. Including my own rep.

9. Frank:
   22 March 2005, on 10:44 am

   John, Sharona — I prefaced my comments by saying this was a tough situation. This whole thing will make a great discussion question in medical ethics classes for years to come. I merely pointed out that Michael’s conduct had influenced me somewhat. Had he insisted on some kind of rehab therapy early on and sought every avenue for a potential recovery I’d be more inclined to believe him when he says this is what “Terri wanted.” But his behavior, at the very least, casts some doubt on his character and motivation. Of course, like all of us, I only know what I get from the news. Like I said, this is a tough situation.

   John, as for your scholarly exposition of the text in Matthew 7:1 … the text reads, “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. for in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” The verse here does not indicate that Christians are never to apply judgement. It merely means that the judgement applied is not to be our own judgement (self-righteousness). We are to hold conduct up to scrutiny using God’s standard of judgement. I merely pointed out to Bob that callous comments toward Terri’s parents might be uncalled for considering the amount of stress and grief they are under. Were I to make such a comment about people in a similar situation I would expect someone to point it out to me. This would be an example of the measure I used being measured to me.

10. Kim:
    22 March 2005, on 10:48 am

    Like your callous comments about Michael Shiavo, you mean?

11. sharona:
    22 March 2005, on 10:55 am

    No … I think the bible was fairly clear there, Frank: Directive followed by consequence. Do NOT do this, or THIS will happen to you. The additional sentences were modifiers of the consequence: If you presume to continue to judge with any thoughts that YOU puny mortals are capable of doing this god-like thing … yea verily the same will be done to you, only more so.

    Anyway, the whole idea that TS is in peril of LOSING HER IMMORTAL SOUL in hellfire if the tube were not reinstated (as her counsel told the press) is pure bunk. And yet all the religious nutties are behind him 100%. You think your god would condemn this brain dead woman to perdition simply because decisions were made that she could do nothing about? Wow. Now THAT’S insane. I wonder if that meets the legal definition of insanity? If so and the parents’ lawyers lose … they could appeal on grounds of incompetent counsel.

12. Frank:
    22 March 2005, on 11:03 am

    Kim — there is a huge difference between my pointing specific actions of Michael in reference to this case and Bob callling Terri’s parents “dipshit parents.” In the first case I merely pointed out the conduct of Michael in the second Bob’s comments were callous toward two people in a horrible situation. If you can’t see the difference, Kim … (sigh)

    And Sharona — I haven’t heard the first thing about the parents’ lawyer making claims about Terri “losing her immortal soul” if the feeding tube is no reinserted. It’s really irrelevant to the whole thing.

13. sharona:
    22 March 2005, on 11:17 am

    My bad. It was “eternal soul,” as quoted by the New York Times (a fairly reputable and established newspaper):

    The lawyer, David Gibbs, also said Ms. Schiavo’s religious beliefs as a Roman Catholic were being infringed because Pope John Paul II has deemed it unacceptable for Catholics to refuse food and water.

    “We are now in a position where a court has ordered her to disobey her church and even jeopardize her eternal soul,” Mr. Gibbs said.

    The argument on this blog is that nutjob actions by various religious persons are crazy. It’s crazy that people want to condemn a woman to living in hell on earth by preventing her husband (sacred institution, marriage, no?) from fulfilling her wishes. These are the same people who will JUMP at the change to support capital punishment–the killing of a fully cognizant human being.

    Does it make sense? No. Do they do it anyway. Yes. This is what we comment on here. That being the case, it’s all fully relevent for discussion.

    More irony: I’ve been following this case for over a year. People who know nothing of it but recently saw that Shrub & Co. have issued emergency legislation COMPLETELY CONTRARY TO THE CONSTITUTION want to jump in and say, “God wants Terri to LIVE!” and other inane religious mumbo jumbo, yet completely ignore the fact that their elected officials want to eradicate states’ rights. Weird.

14. Kim:
    22 March 2005, on 11:20 am

    Come on, Frank — you clearly passed judgment on him. And John (who can be a jerk, frankly — hee hee) called you on it — you spoke in ignorant righteousness. So stop it with the feigned sighing, like nobody gets your subtlety or something. I think we’re all getting it for exactly what it is.

    I’m not an atheist myself, but frankly (hee hee), they’re the ones sounding compassionate here.

    (Sorry for the silly “hee hee”s. I could help myself.)

15. Frank:
    22 March 2005, on 11:39 am

    Sharona — I see the relevance you intend in the argument. As I am not a Catholic I would disagree with the Pope and the lawyer about her soul’s fate being tied to whether or not the feeding tube is reinserted. You mentioned the sacred institution of marriage. I hold the institution in the highest regard but, as I pointed out earlier, Michael apparently abandoned his responsibility as a husband and should no longer have the authority to make decisions on his wife’s behalf. His behavior calls his motives into question.

    I will agree with you on the about-face done by many conservatives with regard to the federal govt. intervening in this. I think the federal govt. has WAAAAY too much power (certainly much, much more than is constitutionally outlined). I don’t think the federal govt. should have done anything.

    Kim — I did not personally judge him (meaning I did not apply my own standards in judging his actions). I applied God’s standard for the role of a husband. Michael did not live up to that standard. Were I to fail to live up to the same standard I would be subject to the same judgment.

    And calling Terri’s mom and dad “dipshit parents” sounds compassionate to you? Really?

16. sharona:
    22 March 2005, on 11:50 am

    Frank … I dunno if any humans would be qualified to have the ability to apply a deity’s judgement (which I think that one verse was all about) … So, in fact, what you did was judge someone’s comments by your interpretation of how your god would view them. That doesn’t make sense. Again, the point of that verse is to tell people to be non-judgemental.

    Regardless of the flavor of religiosity, it’s all insanity. How can any of you say “God wants us to do this action in this case, because all life is sacred to god. Oh, except for criminals … god hates those fuckers.”

    As I said earlier, the husband has been fighting this for over 15 years. He didn’t go out and get him a woman immediately. His wife is dead to him. He is moving on with his life (in a way). Yet he’s STILL trying to do what SHE wanted. If it were about “insurance” money or what have you, he would have taken the $3.3 million or so offered to him and buggared off to fornicate and live a debauched life–oh wait, he’s just living with someone and raising small children. Sorry.

    So calling his motives into question is YOU being JUDGEMENTAL. Your god doesn’t enter into the equation because, as in all things, he (or she?) hasn’t appeared to make his (or her?) soundbyte readily available. If you want to try to apply ancient text as the current word of god today … you have to then apply ALL the many various interpretations all you different flavors of theists have, which would result in many conflicting actions, including but not limited to: ringing bells, lighting incense, re-inserting feeding tube, annointing with oil, laying on of hands, praying, dunking in water, dripping with water, rubbing water on forehead, removing of feeding tube when realization dawns that everyone is preventing TS from being REUNITED with her god, ritualistic sacrifice of chickens, goats, and pigs, and on and on and on …

17. Frank:
    22 March 2005, on 1:34 pm

    sharona — It is easy to apply God’s standard for the proper conduct of a husband because the proper conduct for a husband toward his wife is outlined in Scripture. By holding Michael’s conduct up against the standard outlined in Scripture we are able to apply God’s standard when judging Michael’s behavior. (Again, the point of the verse is for us not to apply our own standard of judgment on others.)

    I didn’t call his motives into question, he did. By refusing therapy options early in the game he called them into question. I’m not saying that his motives aren’t pure, I’m saying that there is reason to wonder whether or not they are.

    As for the insurance money, if he maintained that pulling the tube is what Terri would have wanted in order to let her die so he could collect insurance money then by taking money offered him to bugger off would be an admission that he was just about the money. No, “This is what Terri would have wanted,” is his story and he’s sticking to it. And, in the end, he still gets a pile of money. Again, I don’t know the man’s heart, and neither do you. Pulling the tube may be what Terri would have wanted. But, in the end all we have is the word of a man with an obvious motive for wanting her to die and a history of questionable behavior.

18. xo~IndyGirl~xo:
    22 March 2005, on 3:33 pm

    But is starving her to death, possibly a two week process, really the way to go? She will feel the pain… It’s a shame that we can legally put criminals on death row to death in a more humane manner than we can for poor Terri. Laws need to be changed!

19. John:
    22 March 2005, on 3:40 pm

    Isn’t that rich? Frank “did not personally judge him…I applied God’s standard”. Wow. I mean, f-ing wow.

    And last time I checked, there was no scriptural mention of what to do in cases of destroyed-brain bodies been kept alive by artificial means, whether it’s your wife or not.

    But IndyGirl is surely right — it’s sad that we can’t see our way socially to humane euthanasia. Gee, could that have anything to do with religion?

20. John:
    23 March 2005, on 4:56 am

    And by the way: Well-spanked, Sharona.

21. Malcolm:
    25 March 2005, on 12:12 am

    IndyGirl: How do you suppose that someone without any higher brain functions will “feel” the pain of starvation/dehyrdration? From my understanding of her damage, it is essentially her brain stem that is still functioning, regulating body systems and whatnot. She is not conscious, and you most certainly do not feel pain, or anything for that matter, if you are unconscious.

22. sharona:
    25 March 2005, on 9:55 am

    Hmmm … seems as though Mr. Schiavo tried to help his wife for eight years before he gave up.

    In a 2000 trial, Judge Greer accepted Mr. Schiavo’s testimony that his wife had told him several times she would not want life-prolonging measures. She suffered extensive brain damage after her heart stopped one night in 1990 because of an undiagnosed potassium deficiency. Mr. Schiavo originally sought help for his wife, but after eight years he asked the state court’s permission to remove her feeding tube and let her die. Her parents believe that she is responsive and can improve with more therapy and that she would want to be kept alive despite her condition.

    I am amazed that the courts have been so consistent in denying the parents’ requests in light of the current wacked-out religious environment. While I am glad to see the law being upheld, I hope it doesn’t galvanize the religious nuts into some sort of junta or coup …

23. jerry:
    25 March 2005, on 10:57 am

    To Ron:
    You are already well beyond ‘Terry Schiavo’ land, but to “turn out the big light” for you is sort of an oxymoron - that would only imply that there was some sort of light there to begin with. And from what you’ve shown, that just doesn’t sound possible.
    To everyone except Frank & “IndyGirl” - you all are more brain dead then Terry Schiavo. Nothing more than walking corpses - empty shells of human flesh. Enjoy your time on Earth, folks - my guess is if you continue on with such blatant ignorance & refuse to even try to fully understand the lessons of the Bible - then this is probably the hi-light of your total existance. Yuck. Oh, but before you DO all answer for your life upon your inevitable dying day, please MOVE TO FRANCE & get the hell out of the USA. You’re ruining it.

24. John Howard:
    25 March 2005, on 12:06 pm

    Frank, you should really read more about the story before you comment on it. Her husband did not refuse therapy early on, as a matter of fact early on she recieved pretty extensive therapy. He did not immeadiately shack up with some other woman, and only began dating again after encouraged to do so by the Schindlers before they had their falling out, and there is not any pile of money waiting for him anywhere in any case.

25. John:
    25 March 2005, on 1:09 pm

    “…you all are more brain dead then Terry Schiavo. Nothing more than walking corpses - empty shells of human flesh… MOVE TO FRANCE & get the hell out of the USA. You’re ruining it.”

    Now, now, Jerry. Is that what Jezus would do?

    You know, a little visit from an actual fundie wacko (or at least, somebody who plays one on the internets) is a nice reminder of what a sane and reasonable guy our old buddy Frank is by comparison, for all his transparent sophistry.

26. sharona:
    25 March 2005, on 1:38 pm

    Best comment on this topic so far (by New York Times Editorial writer Frank Rich):

    Next to what’s happening now, official displays of DeMille’s old Ten Commandments monuments seem an innocuous encroachment of religion into public life. It is a full-scale jihad that our government signed onto last weekend, and what’s most scary about it is how little was heard from the political opposition. The Harvard Law School constitutional scholar Laurence Tribe pointed out this week that even Joe McCarthy did not go so far as this Congress and president did in conspiring to “try to undo the processes of a state court.” But faced with McCarthyism in God’s name, most Democratic leaders went into hiding and stayed silent. Prayers are no more likely to revive their spines than poor Terri Schiavo’s brain.

    Yeah folks, we’re into the big religious McCarthyism right now … How far will we let this movement run before we take action and (hopefully) prevent irreparable damage to the Constitution and our liberties?

27. sharona:
    25 March 2005, on 1:40 pm

    I forgot to include the link if anyone wants to read Frank Rich’s excellent editorial, “The God racket from DeMille to DeLay,” at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/27/arts/27Rich.html. You may need to create an account with user name and password, but it’s free.

28. Leftwingerssuckballs:
    26 March 2005, on 3:03 am

    Fuck you insensitive pieces of shit. First of all I would like to respond to the retard who likes to refer to republicans as publicans; nice nickname you fucking invalid. Yes, Terry Schiavo has brain damage, yes it is likely that she will not improve, yes what is being done to her SHOULD be considered murder. Terry has been on a feeding tube, nothing more nothing less, most people being kept alive as “vegetables” are in far worse shape. Terry Schiavo has lost 80% of her brain and will likely never improve but the issue is not what her mental capacity is. The true issue is that her husband has moved on with his life, has a new family, and has nothing to gain from Terry other than money!!!! Is it not evident that this worthless fuck of a human being has nothing more than selfish motivations; even if they were not related to money this bastard is intent on ending another human being’s life. Let’s not forget that Terry is being STARVED TO DEATH AS WE SPEAK! This is not simply an issue where the plug is being pulled but she is being forced to suffer a long and likely painful death. Yeah some of you might say she can’t feel anything but are you people in her position? I didn’t think so. People who have been in coma’s and recovered have explained that they heard and felt everything that happened while they were in their “vegetative state”. Ron, our buddy who started the post should check his facts before opening his asshole that he likes to call a mouth and fart out his bullshit rhetoric that is nothing more than insensitive and cold. Terry’s condition was better than it is now but her loving husband, Michael ordered her therapy stop and personal visits limited. When a person suffers what she went through, it is tough to make any improvements at all when you are limited to what kind of therapy you may receive. Doesn’t anybody have a heart nowadays? Yes, her situation is fucked up but it would be even worse to allow these heartless liberals and the supreme court led by more liberals who’s main perogative is to tear apart the moral fiber of this country at the seams push their agenda further and allow Michael rot in hell schiavo to collect Terry’s life insurance policy; I bet that would help pay for his new family. Terry’s mother and father brought her into this world and if they wish to keep her here, they should be afforded that right. There IS NO LIVING WILL that Terry wrote stating that she would want her life to be ended if she wound up in a condition similar to the one she is in now so there really is no grounds for this to happen in the first place. YOu can sit here and preach your bullshit rhetoric all you want you sons of bitches but you will earn a nice seat in hell for it. Oh yeah, I forgot, according to you idiot’s God doesn’t exist. Keep that idea in your head, you have a hell of a lot of problems coming your way. Anyways, back to the point, Terry should not be starved to death, michael has nothing to gain but money and some publicity, though he was offered a million dollars by one man just to let his “wife” live, he still refused, intent on ending this woman’s life. What is there to gain? Her family wants her here and has hope; even if she does not improve, does her family not have the right to keep her in this world? It’s not like she is on a respirator, just a feeding tube. It disgusts me that you people who support her death would sit by and watch another human being suffer from starvation for almost two weeks; but then again you are the same ones who would rather let Saddam Huessein kill thousands of his people, smuggle weapons into syria and iran to avoid reprocussions, and continue his tyrrany rather than let someone come in and actually try to give the Iraqi people a voice. I would like to agree with Jerry on this issue and second the notion that you crooked immoral wastes of humanity should move to France with all the other terror supporting, US hating, stinky hairy ass Frenchmen and enjoy your corrupt little sociopath lives and let us who actually give a shit about the well being of others stay in our free democratic nation. And Ron, I really think you should reconsider your choice; if your kids were in this situation, would you just watch them starve for two weeks after already being dealt such a short hand by life? The sad thing is that you would probably never hesitate; you would likely pull the plug with a big stupid ass liberal grin on your face; right to death? Yeah motherfucker you have that right, and though i wouldn’t like to put your pathetic ass to death; I would have no hesitation beating the fucking dog shit out of you, you would wind up much worse than poor Terry, you stupid son of a bitch. FUCK YOU AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON!You fuck’s lost this election and the last one fair and square, move on, deal with it, the democrat’s days are over so quit playing your sick political games, lives are being lost and you hypocrits are supporting it. GOOD DAY!

29. Ron:
    26 March 2005, on 7:25 am

    My, doesn’t this topic bring out the Xian Army of Haters? I suppose that if these hateful morons didn’t exist, we’d have to invent them.

    And I’m sure your man Jee-zus would be totally down with the whole “fuck you, motherfucker” stuff. (Although I’m having a little difficulty finding where he gives that guidance in actual scripture.)

30. sharona:
    28 March 2005, on 3:44 pm

    Hezikiah 4:6

    Yea, verily, and the Son of God did make a rude gesture to the doubting Philisites, saying thus, “Go and procreate with yourself, you stupid procreators. And also, it is true that thou art the offspring of a syphillytic goat and a self-abusing camel. Procreators.”

31. SmarterThanYou:
    30 March 2005, on 5:54 pm

    “Leftwingerssuckballs”

    You are a complete moron and have no idea what you are talking about. Why don’t you read the actual court documents prior to spewing FUD. Everything you arer saying is completely baseless. The judges have all the evidence (that you obviously don’t have) and have made the same judgement time and time again.

    What do you know that the judges don’t.. Absolutely nothing.

    If you were in Terri’s situation would you want to live like that. I highly doubt it.

    — This one really makes me laugh —

    “Doesn’t anybody have a heart nowadays”

    Tell that to the 100,000 Iraqi’s (mostly civilians) that have died at our hands in an unjustified war..

    Talk about wacked priorities..

    — And to leave you with this —

    God doesn’t exist.. Hell doesn’t exist… Religion was created by those in power to control niave psychopaths like yourself.. Go compare the writings in the book ‘Dante’s Inferno’ with descriptions in the bible. Amazingly similiar. If hell has been proven to not exist, than what else?

    Go run along little boy.. And remember “Jesus Loves You, but we think your an asshole”

32. Steve:
    15 June 2005, on 4:07 pm

    Not sure if anyone is reading this any more, but whatever…

    What frightens me most about this whole debacle (not that a woman being forced to live as a vegetable isn’t scary enough) is that either myself or someone in my family might wind up in this condition. My father died of a stroke and my brother died of cancer and if either one asked, I would have given them a quicker death than Terry went through and damn the consequences (either secular or spiritual). If my some bizarre chance the fundamentalists are right (that I would be condemned to hell for sparing someone from living 20 years as a brain-dead shell), I’d gladly ascend to the Throne of God and give him the finger before he cast me into hell.

    The thought that some psychotic religious freak might show up at the bedside of someone I love and with whom I’ve had a discussion about what to do if near death, and tell me that they HAVE to stay that way because their interpretation of what their God supposedly said 2,000 years ago, terrifies me. The possibility of BushCo, DeLay or some other pompous, self-righteous, opportunistic politician using this to get reelected makes me want to puke.

    Bush and the other asshats preach about creating a “culture of life”, but doesn’t Texas still hold the lead in death penalty cases? These are the same people who prattle about Jaysus and the Scriptures, but gleefully put 17-year olds on death row and pat themselves on the back about standing tough against crime.

    As far as Michael Schiavo benefitting from Terri’s death - what about Robert Herring’s offer of $1 million for him to relinquish his decision to end her life? Michael could have walked away, a rich man, and left Terri’s parents to care for her if he was as cold-blooded as some people say.

    BTW - Sharona, that passage made my day. Thanks, I really needed a laugh…

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