A note to the “God squad” on slandering atheists
21 May 2005 by RonI just tossed off a quick note to the “God Squad” column (”How to keep faith when grandpa’s a vocal atheist“) in NewsDay (NY/LI) which I’ll share here:
Once again, your column spreads anti-atheist slander — this time, in your “How to keep faith when grandpa’s a vocal atheist”, where you claim that “without God, most kids never learn that they have been put here to serve others, not just themselves”.
And which study indicates this? I do know of studies that atheists are highly underrepresented among convicted criminals, but none which indicated that those raised atheist are less other-directed, compassionate, or altruistic than those raised, say, Baptist. In fact, my experience is just the opposite — that those raised as atheists tend to be more reflective about their moral place in the world, and as a result, often embrace highly moral perspectives, and manage to overcome many prejudicial dogmas of the society around them.
Imagine people’s reactions if you had instead said “without Jesus, most kids never learn that they have been put here to serve others, not just themselves”? Of course, you wouldn’t say that. And not because the evidential status of that claim is so different; but because you — and most other in our society — understand how offensive that would be to the millions of Jews, Muslims, and others in our society. But you obviously don’t think the godless among us deserve the same respect and courtesy.
I guess this kind of puts the lie to your earlier claim that it’s prejudice against people of strong faith that’s the last remaining acceptable prejudice in the culture.
Addendum: I was just reminded (by Brent of the always-worthwhile UTI) of a piece I linked a couple of years ago that’s worth another look in this context: The really excellent talk by science writer Natalie Angier called “Raising Children With Secular Values In A Religious World“.
21 May 2005, on 12:35 pm
Very nicely put, Ron. However, you and I know that it won’t do a bit of good to take them to task. I read their stuff every Saturday in the Morning Call (PA) mostly for a good laugh to start the weekend. What scares me, though, is that there are so many people who believe them.
Religious influence permiates the lives of atheists and non-xians, too. A smallish community near where I live has cancelled its inaugural 5K race because the church blowhards objected because it was to be held on a Sunday morning. Apparently, it would upset the schedules of some 1,500 people who attend 3 churches in the area. They want it held on a Saturday. Guess there aren’t any mosques or jewish temples to disrupt. It really makes me angry.
21 May 2005, on 5:00 pm
“And which study indicates this?”
There is none. Newsday writers are allowed to make any claims they want without sources to back them up.
21 May 2005, on 11:55 pm
These God Squad guys have a real knack for concision (is it accident or are they really astute?). Let’s take again that quote, which can be interpreted to be a statement of high truth value that atheists can proudly own up to:
“without God, most kids never learn that they have been put here to serve others, not just themselves.”
Take the proposition that follows the “that” and re-read it, and emphasize “put here”; under this inflection, isn’t the statement right? Let’s hope that most atheist parents continue to fail to inculcate notions of being put here on Earth to serve others–or put here for any purpose whatsoever. Children who are marinated in a sense of divine purposes and designs for their lives can (sometimes) result in adults who act on their perceived “holy duties”.
22 May 2005, on 5:16 am
Don’t think so, Badger. The contrast case given is “(put here for) just themselves”. Since the “put here for” is on both sides of the contrast, it’s backgrounded as merely the speaker/writer’s presupposition. The contrast offered is then clearly between the other-regarding and other-valuing life on the one hand, and the “just” or “merely” self-regarding life on the other. If it had said “that they have been put here to serve others, but instead learn that no one PUT them here for anything, and that they have to make their own purpose in life”, THEN it would have been true. But the offered contrast case makes all the difference.
It’s clear what they intend and what they in fact say: Kids without religion are far less likely to become other-regarding and other-valuing than kids raised atheist.
22 May 2005, on 3:14 pm
Rather than bother to respond to the God Squad, I’d just ignore them. They get their power from stirring up controversy. Maybe if they are allowed to sink into irrelevance, they’ll go away.
22 May 2005, on 6:18 pm
It always amuses me when the xians claim the high moral ground based on their beliefs. “I’m a better person because I believe that I’ll be rewarded for all the good things I do and punished for all the bad things I do.” Morality has to come from a desire to be a moral person, in spite of the costs or rewards associated with that. Simply calculating your best long term self-interest doesn’t have anything to do with morality. As for those social engineers who think that instilling everyone with the fear of sky-daddies wrath is the best way to keep people on best behavior, I challenge them to come up with any statistics that put non-religious or less observant types at higher risk for becoming criminal. Mostly I find that religion acts as moral blinders- people of faith come to believe that their faith is enough for them to be moral, so they never think about moral issues. This not only causes them to do immoral things in the name of religion, it also makes them useless for making moral decisions on issues that aren’t specifically covered by their indoctrination, because they don’t have any practice. I would bet that if you really did a comprehensive study of morality and religion, you would find that strong religious belief was a negative factor in predicting moral behavior.
22 May 2005, on 6:43 pm
What is it you’re hoping to accomplish with this sight? I’m just curious…
22 May 2005, on 9:37 pm
What is it you’re hoping to accomplish with this sight? I’m just curious… — The upper-right corner of the main page gives the goals of the site. Enjoy, and tell all your friends.
25 May 2005, on 11:14 am
Upper right corner. Think I can find that. Will check it out.
26 May 2005, on 2:47 pm
Thank you so much for that Natalie Angier link!!
3 June 2005, on 3:36 pm
In response to Kevin,
In fact, Christians do not ‘claim high moral ground’, we are in fact supposed to consider ourselves less than those around us.
Just so you know…