Shit
26 January 2006 by Bob
I’m sure that many people have been following this…
Grandpa dies on hearing 7 children killed in fiery wreck
LAKE BUTLER, Florida (CNN) — News of a crash in which seven children perished so upset their grandfather that he had a massive heart attack and died, the children’s adoptive mother said. “I lost my daddy tonight,” Barbara Mann said Wednesday. “My dad died of a massive heart attack tonight over all this. He lost all seven of his grandkids … I can’t deal with this.” [...] They have been identified as: Cynthia Nicole Mann and Elizabeth Mann, both 15; Ashley Keen and Johnny Mann, both 13; Miranda Finn, 9; Heaven Mann, 3; and Anthony Lamb, 20 months. [...] Cynthia Mann’s aunt said the girl had just dropped off another child and was taking the rest of the children home “to get ready to go to church.”
Fuck. I need a goddam drink.
UPDATE — Some additional stuff I just found:
Union County resident Chad White, 34, who lives about 200 yards from the site, heard the crash. He went to the scene and found a number of children wandering or lying on the ground near the bus. A little girl about 5, crying for her mother, was with an older boy who was trying to comfort her despite his own injuries, White said.
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26 January 2006, on 2:27 pm
“There but for the grace of God go I.” Is there any more ridiculous statement, usually spoken in the aftermath of a tragedy. So, you escaped by the grace of God, but apparently God wasn’t grace-full enough to protect all the other people who died in the hurricane/tornado/earthquake/tsunami/school bus crash/etc.
This indeed is a horrifying story, one that if it were fictionalized we would reject as an unbelievable plot element.
26 January 2006, on 5:34 pm
“The Lord F*****-Up in mysterious ways”
26 January 2006, on 5:53 pm
First of all, yes, this is a horrifying story and I can’t imagine the grief the mother is feeling right now.
This quote always baffles me…”They’re God’s, and He just called them home.” How can they believe that a loving god would play such a trick…”here’s your kids, and through violent death, I take them back.”
Plain and simple — the humans operating the vehicles are responsible for the children’s deaths. No one else. (I bet all these loving christians will sue the hell out of that truck driver too in revenge for god taking their children to heaven!)
Christians claim to believe in god so strongly, then they always praise god for leaving them here in this “evil” world after they survive a catastrophe while weeping and mourning for those other believers who “are called home to glory.” By what they profess to others about the “wonders of heaven” and that they KNOW they are going to their heavenly sky daddy when they die, they rejoice when they don’t have to go there! OH…I know what they will say…because they are “only human” and it is human nature to want to live. But at the same time they say they KNOW they are going to heaven when they die…they are so programmed they cannot hear their own contradictions.
26 January 2006, on 7:32 pm
Wow, just… Wow, that really fucking sucks. Can you even imagine that shit happening to you? I can’t even imagine how fucked up I would be for the rest of my life if something like that happened to me. That’s a goddamn horror story if I’ve ever heard one. The thing that really sucks is that this really puts shit like katrina and the tsunami into perspective when you really think about it.
26 January 2006, on 8:47 pm
This is a tragic story, no doubt about it. Why do you think god needs so many kids in heaven, will he ever get enough! I don’t understand the comment about shit “into perspective”, though. I do really think about it. Shit happens, sometimes it’s big, sometimes it’s smalller. But, it happens. End of story. What are you reading into it Ford?
26 January 2006, on 9:42 pm
Reading into it? I say putting it into perspective because normally when we think about katrina or the tsunami we don’t think about the personal aspects of it, maybe I’m just a little more sensitive about it because someone I know recently died and that tore me the fuck up, I can only imagine some shit like that happening to my family. I was merely commenting on how much bigger those two tragedies were compared to that incident, and how much bigger that one incident was than mine and how much mine sucked.
“Shit happens, sometimes it’s big, sometimes it’s smalller. But, it happens. End of story.”
No, not end of story. There are limitless different ways to look at certain situations based on different criteria or world views, this one was based on introspection. I was basing it on the fact that losing one person sucks (even though I didn’t state this, I assumed that other people could make the connection of how much death sucks and how much more this must’ve sucked) so losing all of your kids and father on the same damn day must be close to unbearable. Thus, many people lost their entire families and communities, basically everything they’d ever known, to this “shit” as you so elegantly put it.
In a word- empathy. You should try it some time.
By the way, did you intend for your post to make you sound like such an asshole?
26 January 2006, on 11:33 pm
Sounds as though the minister had an imaginary friend as a child whom he blamed all of his misdeeds on, and now as an adult he has retained another imaginary friend for all of his problems. It is sad but interesting that the children were on their way to be taught about this imaginary friend. It’s simple logic and a reminder of what we do when we place our trust in a person who believes in an imaginary friend and has dedicated his life to perpetuating this insanity among the innocent children.
I am reminded of the film director and producer Alfred Hitchcock, who when driving through a Swiss city one day, suddenly pointed out of the car window and said: “That is the most frightening sight I have ever seen.” His companion was surprised to see nothing more alarming that a priest in conversation with a little boy, his hand on the child’s shoulder. “Run, little boy,” cried Hitchcock, leaning out of the car. “Run for your life!”
27 January 2006, on 12:45 am
By the way, I was a little harsh towards the end of my post, sorry island, it’s been a long day.
Yeah, it is interesting to see people act like tards when stuff like this happens. I think they attribute everything good to god and everything bad to satan/accidents. Then you ask them why the bible considers certain harmless things evil and they claim that it’s part of gods plan. I don’t think they’re idiots, they just get a buzz from the reward centers of their brain from something other than logic.
27 January 2006, on 1:41 am
A friend of my family lost her entire family (brother, father, and sister-in-law) to a not-so-bright attempt at repairing an old-style well on their family farm — it seems deep, open wells can accumulate toxic gases in their depths, and as each went down to check on the last person who stopped responding to concerned shouts…in short, hearing this story definitely reminded me lemmings. As the sole survivor in a Catholic family, she had no problem blaming God. Her anger toward the ficitonal character was (and still is) unparalleled in her life. I find it particularly odd that, despite the anger she feels, she still clings to the myth even in her hatred of Him/it. Anyway..thought I would share a story where not all bad things are blamed on Satin, but shows how particularly ingrained a myth/lie/deception can rally become. As sad as the story was, her response shocked me even more.
27 January 2006, on 7:01 am
This comment isn’t directly about the story but about the media coverage. I followed the link to read the CNN story and there’s a link in there to a video grab. The link says ‘Watch as the grief proves unbearable’. Bloody fucking media jackals.
Peter
27 January 2006, on 7:03 am
I didn’t get the text of the link quite right. It actually says ‘Watch as news of the deaths proved to be unbearable’.
27 January 2006, on 7:44 am
Peter - exactly. The only thing worse than unbearable grief is makinga fucking spectacle of it. Assholes.
27 January 2006, on 9:27 am
A co-worker of mine just lost his 17 year old daughter in a car accident… so there I am sitting in a church for the funeral service. As much as I hated to join into the farce I felt it was important to show my support and pain for my co-worker. I could see that although these people are being duped they are being comforted by the gawd talk… I realized (again) that this is it …this is why religion exists. The explanation, the comfort, the empowerment… all bullshit but working to help these people through this tragedy.
The thing that stood out the most was the way the preacher worked the crowd and specifically called attention to the young people that gawd was the way to deal with this …gawd was the way to ____ …yada, yada …the motherfucker was MARKETING! He worked the crowd over and over concluding that gawd was the way for everything. I thought how awful is it that this guy is marketing these people at this difficult time… and how fucked up that they think they are being comforted.
I came away from the whole thing (aside from crying like a baby at the pain the family must feel) thinking that religion is good for these people because it works for them …if only they could figure out that it doesn’t work for everyone and they shouldn’t try to make it.
27 January 2006, on 9:32 am
“I came away from the whole thing (aside from crying like a baby at the pain the family must feel) thinking that religion is good for these people because it works for them …if only they could figure out that it doesn’t work for everyone and they shouldn’t try to make it.”
Does it though? I remain unconvinced that gawd is anything more than cold comfort. At the funerals I’ve attended people are basically told not to mourn the departed because they are in a better place. I think that robs people of their right to feel the emotion. And, doesn’t allow them to deal with it in healthy ways. It’s like bury it and forget it, but don’t feel it.
Personally, I’d rather truly deal with it - the pain, the sorrow, everything - and get over it. Instead of burying it and pretending it’s not there.
Plus, as you pointed out, even if this is why religion exists, it makes even less sense for them to structure it, sell it, and try to force everyone into it.
27 January 2006, on 9:44 am
Lya, you’re right …but different people deal with things in different ways …some people NEED to bury it and/or explain it with a gawd. These are those people …I doubt they could handle it the way we do… they would end up in a mental home. You’re right, it’s cold, it’s pretending, it’s false hope, it’s bullshit …but it’s all these people can handle… they live in a dream world of gawds because it makes it easier for them.
27 January 2006, on 10:01 am
You’re completely right, I just think it’s unhealthy and false. Not a way I want to live my life, that’s for certain. But, if I am going to complain about them forcing their shit on me, I won’t force my shit on them. If they want to live falsely, that’s their perrogative.
27 January 2006, on 10:05 am
Exactly …or should I say Prezactly!
27 January 2006, on 10:58 am
*lol* prezactly- isn’t that a great word. I got that from the AN. I even use it IRL.
27 January 2006, on 11:15 am
My brother-in-law died a little while ago and, though he was catholic, most of his friends were arabic muslims. They attended the funeral and, of course, were wearing their traditional clothing. The priest at the funeral took his time to describe what was “right” with xianity and how being mislead by false religion is the surest path away from god, etc… etc…
What a cock.
27 January 2006, on 12:07 pm
Marcus: Ugh. I have no patience for that bullshit. Would have had a nice five-minutes-alone-talk with that priest, that little self-righteous arrogant fucker.
27 January 2006, on 4:57 pm
Hey Ford, thanks for the explanation. Yup, you did come off a bit harsh. Maybe you have your reasons. The thing is, I was interested in your opinion. I don’t have too many on-line discussions probably for this very reason. With out reading facial expressions and body language, I’m clueless about what points some of you may be trying to make. My point about ’shit’ happening was that those kids are dead. Dead people don’t care anymore. All our actions then, everything we do or say, is for the benifit of the living. It’s just so over for the ones who are dead. Anyway, I’m not really an asshole. Probably just not as smart as you. But, I’m still an atheist and I am entitled to my opinion too.
27 January 2006, on 5:33 pm
I’ve always hated religious weddings or funerals when the priest/minister completely ignores why the audience is there (i.e. the deceased or the couple being wed) and instead uses the opportunity to try and win a few new converts. It has always seemed to me to be such a selfish practice and illustrates how insecure and fragile religious leaders really are.
27 January 2006, on 9:45 pm
Yeah, again I apologize for that island. I just wasn’t having a particularly wonderful day. Not your fault by any means. I do respect your opinion. My being harsh in that regard was merely a product of the aforementioned bad day. I did understand your opinion. I wasn’t arguing so much for the dead as for the living (though the thought of ceasing to exist or experience the world or the self is really fucking unsettling, and I know we won’t care when we’re dead, but that’s exactly what worries me NOW while I do care.)
27 January 2006, on 11:42 pm
Ford, perhaps its too late and too off topic for this, but your last point about death being unsettling struck my interest. I just pissed off a good freind of mine in a discussion about that exact topic - I still don’t get the unsettling thing in regards to “ceasing to exist.” I mean, I don’t look forward to it, but it doesn’t bother me either. Doesn’t a “disturbing” feeling about the idea of “non existence” kind of hint at a hidden belief in the afterlife in you — like perhaps a sense that non-existence is rather a bleak, desert existence rather than being true non-existence? Perhaps I am being obtuse, but I can’t muster concern about something that I believe firmly that I am not really part of. What’s your take on that thought? Feel free to rip me a new one if I offended you.
28 January 2006, on 1:44 am
godsarefake:
I find non-existence a disturbing concept, since existence is all I have.
Yet, having passed out in a hospital ward once and lost several minutes of my life — instantly erased, as though no time had passed — I have no illusions about non-consciousness. You will just click off, baby. Bye-bye for all eternity. I fear that, but I also fear living a life of absolute lies to help medicate that idea.
Give me reality head on. I can take it.
Go bravely into that good night, friends. After all, it can’t really hurt.
28 January 2006, on 5:48 pm
Thanks Sean. I get that some people are disturbed by the idea non-existence, but I just don’t share that sense, and, worse, I just don’t understand what there is you (or anybody) find disturbing about it. Is it a fear of the eternal nature of it? Is it a fear of the incomprehendable nature of it (i.e. fear of the unknown)? Is it a fear that that non-existence actually means some form of negative sensory input? Is it simply completely irrational? Can you (or anyone) actually articulate the feeling of “disturbance” you feel when you contemplate non-existence?
29 January 2006, on 10:44 am
[...] We all lamented the loss of seven adopted children (and their grandfather) in Florida this past week… Preparing to go to church, they died a fiery death, apparently because it was time for Merciful Gawd to call them home. [...]
30 January 2006, on 7:40 am
godarefake asked: Can you (or anyone) actually articulate the feeling of “disturbance” you feel when you contemplate non-existence?
All I can say is I like having a consciousness. It is all that defines who I am, and the only way I have gotten to experience the universe. As Penn Jillette says, I have won the great genetic lottery and am lucky to be here, As Richard Dawkins says, “we are the very privileged owners of a brief spark of consciousness.”
In all of the vast history of time and space, my little old ego and id where given a chance to observe our wonderful universe, even if only for an infinitesimally small speck of time. I just wish it wasn’t so brief, and wish I didn’t have to give it up so relatively soon, when there is so much more to know and learn. I would have no problem being immortal. I would never stop looking for answers to yet greater questions.
Yeah, it’s scary. I won’t feel it when it happens, but I don’t want to be where the flame goes when the candle is snuffed out. That’s the Abyss. And it lasts forever. I prefer it here on the living, breathing side. That’s why I try to live every day to its fullest.