Stranger in a Strange Land
27 February 2006 by AaronI lost someone I love very much recently. It was very unexpected. It did however, lead me to a discovery that was most amazing.
My family is xian. Lite-weight to be sure, but xians just the same. So, I went to a mass of xian burial for this person. (Luckily, it wasn’t in a church). The pastor was female (because Methodists are cool like that) and was there the whole three days. At the wake there were so many people packed into the funeral home that all were shoulder to shoulder- unable to move. After the funeral, people lingered around the coffin despite the 10 degree weather.
Despite this being the absolute worst few weeks of my life, something surprising and fantastic happened at the funeral. Sitting there with my brothers and cousins, listening to the pastor I realized something. You know those sales pitch vacations? You know, the come to Florida to this gorgeous hotel for a free (or really cheap) weekend vacation - but you have to come to this six hour long sales pitch about time shares?
That’s exactly what religion is. Half the service was about gawd and jebus - random Psalms, and verses. You have to sit through the mind-numbing and childish gawd sales pitch in order to get to why you came there- to hear about the loved one passed away.
After she was done babbling on and on, the mayor got up and did the eulogy. It was what we wanted to hear. Funny stories about the one passed, and laughter instead of sobs, if only for a moment.
Then, the pastor got back up to close and asked everyone to recite the Lord’s Prayer. (You know the one drilled into your head like a bad ad jingle?) And absolutely no one in my row recited it. I was sitting with my brothers and cousins, and not ONE of them spoke the prayer. I thought perhaps they just didn’t know it.
At the luncheon that followed we all sat together and I mentioned that no one said it. And something fantastic happened. Nearly all of them (10 in total) piped up with “We know it, but who believes that stuff?”
The one who passed would have been very proud to know they left behind a family of free thinkers, and who maintain it, even in the face of unexpected death and crushing grief.
(sidebar: this finally gave me the opportunity to talk with my new bf about the fact that I’m an atheist. He took it better than I expected, though it was clearly not something he agrees with. But that’s cool. He doesn’t have to agree with me, as long as he doesn’t try to change my mind as I make no attempts to change his.)
27 February 2006, on 9:56 am
Heart warming post.
My wife is xian too and from the very beginning I too made it clear to her what my position on religion is, when I do attend the ceremonies with her I too do not act even though I could make that cross and recite the prayers but it is out of respect that I do not, she knows that those things have no meaning for me.
We’re married 10 years now and are 15 years together, as long as both parties are “normal” in their convictions it should not be a problem, our children also get both views and I made it clear that they will not be forced into anything
Lots of strength to cope with the loss.
27 February 2006, on 11:58 am
So sorry to hear about your loss, Lya. But the fact that you learned more about your family is a positive for sure.
27 February 2006, on 12:06 pm
In truth, I can’t think of this person and be sad. All my memories of them are happy ones. And, now knowing that I can be totally myself around more of my family is a great thing.
Though the difference between us and some of my family was made very clear as some of them talked about the deceased being in a better place and up in heaven with their friends and family. These were the people the most upset, the most hysterical. Why should that be if they believed in this better place? Where is this comfort religion is supposed to give?
That this person is gone massively sucks. The village I’m from lost its best citizen, my family it’s best member. But that legacy lives. We (my family) live to carry it on.
That comforts.
27 February 2006, on 12:28 pm
Very unfortunate, Lya.
27 February 2006, on 12:30 pm
Sorry for your loss. And thanks for sharing the moving account of it. Family death is definitely a time when religious seem totally freaked out and alienated from the actual person. There are few moments when the nihilistic nature of religion comes so forcefully to the surface, when real human connection to the deceased and the other surviving people in his/her life is more twisted and distorted by the supernatural nuttiness, or when others joining you in focusing on the actual person rather than the mumbo jumbo is more rewarding and affirming. Glad you shared it and reminded us all of all that.
27 February 2006, on 4:02 pm
This is not the first I have heard of people going to funerals and finding them to be free gawd infomercials for everything the pastor wants you to believe, and not enough about the deceased.
I’ve only been to one formal funeral and I was young. I don’t remember what it was like. For one reason or another, I never was involved with the funerals of my closest friends and family who have passed on. It’s bound to happen one day, and I know I will feel like a total alien.
So sorry for your loss, Lya.
27 February 2006, on 5:03 pm
Religious funerals are tough. I recently went to a funeral for an older neighbor of mine and aftewards the daughter came up to me and started talking about how she really believed that her father and mother were now in heaven together dancing. What can you do except nod your head and smile. Problem was, the whole immediate family was like that. I’m not going to challenge anyone’s religious beliefs at a funeral for their father, but it was all I could do not to roll my eyes.
I’m curious about your bf situation. I don’t know if I could have a serious relationship with someone who believed in God? I think I would not quite see that person as equal because I tend to think of God belief as a weakness. Fortunately, I have never had to make that decision. Has anybody else run into this problem? Am I just a bad person for not being able to overcome my own prejudices?
27 February 2006, on 6:26 pm
I’m curious about your bf situation. I don’t know if I could have a serious relationship with someone who believed in God? I think I would not quite see that person as equal because I tend to think of God belief as a weakness. Fortunately, I have never had to make that decision. Has anybody else run into this problem? Am I just a bad person for not being able to overcome my own prejudices?
I know a couple who were married even though one was an atheist and the other xian and they both knew this before marriage. (This is a friend of my husband’s.) Things were fine in the beginning, but once kids came into the picture, religion was a problem. The mom is an xian and wanted the kids to go to church and the father said he wanted to at least tell the kids his viewpoints, but the mother said she didn’t want her kids to be “confused” and feels that the kids need a good religious foundation. They had some pretty big fights over it but she finally won out in divorce court. She has custody of the kids and the kids go to church. They work visitation in around church activities since she got all involved in church again.
27 February 2006, on 6:27 pm
I am sorry for your loss, Lya.
27 February 2006, on 6:51 pm
“I’m curious about your bf situation. I don’t know if I could have a serious relationship with someone who believed in God? I think I would not quite see that person as equal because I tend to think of God belief as a weakness. Fortunately, I have never had to make that decision. Has anybody else run into this problem? Am I just a bad person for not being able to overcome my own prejudices?” (How do I make it italic??)
I know what you mean, Bruce. I would find it impossible to be with someone with pretty much any kind of religious faith. My boyfriend of nearly 5 years is an avowed atheist like me, but if he was xian I really don’t think it would work. Which seems strange to me sometimes, as some of my closest female friends are xian.
My sympathies to you, Lya.
27 February 2006, on 7:44 pm
Bruce said:
I don’t know if I could have a serious relationship with someone who believed in God?
I would feel the same way if I were single. When I was single, I still believed in God, or some kind of spirituality, or some kind of energy - I didn’t know. When I met the man that I am married to now, he was agnostic. When we discussed religion, he said that he was alright with me, as long as I wasn’t Catholic.
I’ve never been to a funeral, luckily. But I may be going to one within the next couple of weeks. Hopefully not.
27 February 2006, on 8:47 pm
@Bruce
i’m just curious at how you see belief in God as a weakness and how does it make them unequal to you? just wonderin
27 February 2006, on 11:18 pm
Sorry to hear about it, similar situation happened to me recently. I know what you mean about the religious sort of “infomercial”. It was my first funeral as an atheist, and you definatly notice the religious stuff as feeling intrusive at times. The pastor at this one barely knew the guy and just talked for half an hour or so about jesus and really hijacked the funeral, saying little if anything relating to the deceased in any way.
Not that I’m attempting to one-up you with my sob story or anything, just that I’ve noticed a lot of the things you noticed (though unfortunatly not the part with people who themselves happen to be non-believers.) You have to admit, death sucks slightly more as an atheist (which I hate to say, because it ques the religious folks up with their “good news”).
27 February 2006, on 11:45 pm
Amanda,
I know your question was directed at Bruce but I’ll answer it as well. Believing in any religion is definitely a weakness, it’s a mental deficiency. Believing in primitive backward-assed anti-science nonsense in the technological world of today is one of the heights of human stupidity. If someone said they believed in magic, non-existant beings or had an imaginary friend they would be considered nuts. Religion makes all of these claims and is equally stupid, the only difference is religion is considered acceptable by most people (though definitely not by me) but this is no excuse since many truly stupid things are considered acceptable by most people like drinking and smoking which shouldn’t be.
As for unequal, well I wouldn’t consider them unequal since everyone is human. I would consider them less sane for their stupid irrational beliefs.
28 February 2006, on 12:01 am
Lya, I am sorry for your sudden loss, and glad that you were able to revisit some wonderful memories of the person with other loved ones.
I can identify with your post, and want to elaborate a bit if only for the sake of sharing a similar experience. You describe my impressions very well when you compare the services to vacation condo sales pitch weekends. Ford also touched on a few very familiar feelings in comments.
I went to two family funerals last year. One was just a gravesite service (as the person was transported halfway across the country for the burial). The pastor had never even met the person, as he was new at the church the couple used to go to for many years. Someone you’ve known your whole life, and here this stranger is saying things about them only as a way to pitch the god thing. This wasn’t bad though, as the service was short, and the deceased had been sick for an awfully long time. It was a peaceful release. Still, thank goodness for the luncheon, where you can relax and visit with relatives who actually know each other and the deceased.
The second was horrible. Viewing and service in the town they lived in most recently. The next day, viewing, service, and burial in their hometown in the next state. The widow was, as you can guess, the most religious and thus hysterical. It just seemed so cruel to put her through that so much, the many times we tried to gently guide her away from the casket she was causing to roll against the wall, the literal shifts we took among three people to be by her side, giving respite to the others and a chance for them to do their own grieving. It was dramatic, and exhausting, and cruel. When was she not like this? When she was not in the church. Again, the hometown pastor never even met the deceased, and it felt like a huge insult to be advertised to when all we (I) wanted to do was be with my family and share memories.
Thank you for speaking to this. I never knew how (or where) to mention my experiences without feeling that I’d be looked at as some sort of insensitive turd. It’s comforting to know I’m not alone in some of the feelings. I hope knowing some of us have felt the same way means something to you, too.
28 February 2006, on 12:25 am
As to the relationship question: My husband and I have been together for 13 years. He believes there is a god, but not in organized religion. He merely finds religions interesting enough to read about them or talk to the person at the door (which irritates me to no end, heh).
He was raised religious, but in a screwed up environment. My parents, while raised religious, went to church very seldom when I was a kid. There was no ritual in the home, no lessons, they were more the type who just lived their convictions, which had nothing to do with judgement and everything to do with respect for others. With that, my husband and I can respect the others’ belief/non-belief, and how it came about. We know that it’s about who we are, not what we are, and recognize the strong pull of early exposure to one way of thinking. I can respect my parents because they respect others. Same with my husband. We end up in the same place, even if inside we got there different ways. That’s been the key for us.
It also provides a good balance for our kids, I think. They are not being brought up religious. We think it’s wrong to indoctrinate them so young. We don’t push non-belief, either. Since my husband is the one interested in this stuff on a purely intellectual level, he can explain religion to them in an educational sense, and I can explain my atheism. Neither of us pushes anything. We basically let them ask questions, respond, and allow them the room to figure it out for themselves.
28 February 2006, on 2:22 am
At my grandfaters services, my atheist brother and I couldn’t keep a straight face. The Lutheran service struck us both as funny. We managed to keep it to a few chuckles and grins. Boy, was my mom bent out of shape. Sssssssh.
I used to work at a Catholic convent and when one of the nuns was on death’s door the others would sing joyous songs and help the nun on to heaven. This is the only place I’ve seen xians happy about death. I’ve never understood the idea that we should all be sad if heaven is such a wonderful place.
Actually, for me heaven will be a hell hole. I’ll have two ex wives and two wicked witch of the west mother in laws, so where’s the heaven for me?
And, my sympathies to Lya.
28 February 2006, on 3:12 am
@Bruce
i’m just curious at how you see belief in God as a weakness and how does it make them unequal to you? just wonderi
Amanda:
“Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people.”
-Karl Marx
28 February 2006, on 7:37 am
“I’m curious about your bf situation. I don’t know if I could have a serious relationship with someone who believed in God? I think I would not quite see that person as equal because I tend to think of God belief as a weakness. Fortunately, I have never had to make that decision. Has anybody else run into this problem? Am I just a bad person for not being able to overcome my own prejudices?”
I, too, see god-belief as a weakness. But, after talking to him about this I can only conclude that he’s agnostic in terms of a deity, but does believe that there “must be” something after this life. I attribute that to the fact that someone he loved very dearly died last November, and he is still grieving.
If he were specifically religious, I couldn’t be with him. As the relationship is still new and neither of us want kids, hopefully those normal “inter-faith” (*cue rim shot*) relationship problems won’t happen. Time will tell.
The service I have just been to was just a long sales pitch –all fluff and no substance. My family is also the kind who believes that the deceased is now in heaven with their friends. So it was very interesting to see how many of my younger cousins (I’m the oldest) and even my brother’s gf didn’t follow suit.
1 March 2006, on 8:52 am
I saw a little old man in the cafeteria this morning and I damned near turned into a sobbing mess right there. Funny how that sneaks up on you, huh.
1 March 2006, on 9:02 am
Different denominations handle funerals in different ways. Your more conservative churches tend to view the funeral as a great opportunity to coerce a few more converts: get them when they’re shocked and dismayed by death.
Other denominations and pastors have a different view. Some even work to make the whole event a celebration - a celebration of a life and a celebration of the life to come. I would agree that most Christians are obviously of limited faith evidenced by their dread fear of death. Death should be one thing that solid Christians refuse to fear.
Remember too how much input the family has on these ceremonies. The Methodist minister could have been requested to read each of those passages by the immediate family - as “favorites” of the deceased. My minister tries to shape each funeral to the desires of the immediate family. There is no axe to grind.
But there are plenty who do have an axe to grind - I’d never deny that. I once went to a wedding and the pastor hijacked it for a 25 minute sermon - with the poor wedding party having to stand there for the 25 minutes. Insane.
1 March 2006, on 9:24 am
Future Onion article: Pastor Beaten Silly By Grieving Mob After Hijacking Funeral to Promote Bible