Theocracy Watch: Ave Maria, Florida
2 March 2006 by Sean
Think before you pick up the phone and order a Domino’s shit-ass pizza.
Pizza Magnate Seeks Catholic-Governed Town
If Domino’s Pizza founder Thomas S. Monaghan has his way, a new town being built in Florida will be governed according to strict Roman Catholic principles, with no place to get an abortion, pornography or birth control.
The pizza magnate is bankrolling the project with at least $250 million and calls it “God’s will.”
Civil libertarians say the plan is unconstitutional and are threatening to sue.
Fuck yeah, it is the very definition of unconstitutional. Sue their asses… You can take it all the way to the unconstitutional, theocratic U.S. Supreme Court!
The town and the university, developed in partnership with the Barron Collier Co., an agricultural and real estate business, will be set on 5,000 acres with a European-inspired town center, a massive church and what planners call the largest crucifix in the nation, at nearly 65 feet tall.
God’s dick is still being defined in human terms. If he needed his cock worshipped, wouldn’t he do it on a cosmic level, without any need from little ol’ homo sapiens? I mean, where is the massive cock-shaped galaxy?
During a speech last year at a Catholic men’s gathering in Boston, Monaghan said that in his community, stores will not sell pornographic magazines, pharmacies will not carry condoms or birth control pills, and cable television will have no X-rated channels.
More proof that America’s version of Catholicism is all about repressed little zit-faced boys.
I believe all of history is just one big battle between good and evil. I don’t want to be on the sidelines,” Monaghan, who sold Domino’s Pizza in 1998 to devote himself to doing good works, said in a recent Newsweek interview.
Why the fuck is the phrase “good works” not in quotes here? Or stated as “to devote himself to what he calls ‘good works’”?
“While the governor does not personally believe in abortion or pornography, the town, and any restrictions they may place on businesses choosing to locate there, must comply with the laws and constitution of the state and federal governments,” Russell Schweiss, a spokesman for the governor, said Tuesday.
He doesn’t “believe” in abortion or pornography? Guess what, Jebediah: they’re REAL — no matter how much you don’t “believe” in them, dipshit. The very first drawing in human history was probably a sketch on a cave wall of someone fucking someone else (genders irrelevant) from behind.
And abortions will continue, and be deadly to poor women, whether you and your theocratic ilk have your way or not.
Anyone up for a drug-laden, orgiastic road trip to Ave Maria, Florida?
2 March 2006, on 2:09 am
“and cable television will have no X-rated channels”
Will I still be able to get porn off a satellite or will they erect a giant aluminum foil shield to block the signals? And can somebody please tell me when cities got the authority to regulate cable television.
The next rule is sex may only be performed in the missionary position.
2 March 2006, on 8:33 am
There will be no sex. Xians hate sex (esp catholics). I guess they’ll just impregnate their slave women via turkey baster.
In all seriousness, no wonder Domino’s pizza sucks so bad. Xian businessmen are notorious charlatans.
2 March 2006, on 10:16 am
They’ll probably have homeowners’ covenants banning satellite dishes. If they set up their own cable system then they can put whatever they want on it depending on what sort of deals they can cut with the programming providers.
This guy and Mel Gibson can each build a town and University down the road from each other and have sports rivalries and all the rest. Then they can do The Village thing, surround their Catholic utopia with a 12 foot tall privacy fence and disappear into the mists of history.
Wonder if he’ll have Dominos pizza in there with them…?
2 March 2006, on 10:52 am
If this place is supposed to be run according to strict catholic principles then I guess that molesting little boys will be okay – so long as it is done by members of the clergy.
2 March 2006, on 11:04 am
This fucker used to fund Operation Rescue way back in the day, and I used to tell students (if they were interested) not to buy that fucking nasty-ass-crap pizza.
Always felt sorry for the delivery folks, though. Things might have changed, but when I knew some Dominos-delivery-dudes, Dominos gave them crap. (You know, like Wal-Mart.)
How can xians use-n-abuse people like that, anyway? Oh, that’s right: this is America, so it’s all about the CASH. Praise Je$u$!
2 March 2006, on 11:36 am
“Praise Je$u$! ”
oooooh. I like that. Mind if I steal it?
2 March 2006, on 11:55 am
So is this, “salvation guaranteed in 30 minutes or less” going to apply?
I had this pizza once and it sucked so I tried it again and it still sucked. I wonder if that same philosophy is going to apply to the town? If so just think the town will be crappy to start and just get crappier and crappier.
Use and abuse:
Imokalee is 10 miles away, mostly hispanic 10% unemployment long term poverty. Naples 30 miles away one of the most affluent cities in FL. I think I’ve seen this scenario before
Go to http://www.avemarie.com for a good look at their views and how they intend on treating the residents of Imokalee. Then check back in 5- 10 yrs and see if they have kept their word.
2 March 2006, on 11:57 am
They forgot about the Internet. How are they going to keep dad and the boys from cruising the net left handed?
And are they going to require school girls to wear those sexy Catholic school uniforms?
2 March 2006, on 11:58 am
Woops the link is
http://www.avemaria.com
2 March 2006, on 12:55 pm
Thomas S Monaghan is a shibboleth: “ a belief that serves the purpose of identifying the believer as one of the good guys, prominently planted on the side of the angels. Shibboleths transform questions about facts, causation, and evidence into questions about personal identity and moral worth.” It makes him feel good. In a sense this is an addiction related to secretion of Oxytocin the feel-good hormone. This kind of addictive behavior has to be controlled.
As Physicist and Nobel prizewinner Stephen Weinberg says,” religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things, But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.”
2 March 2006, on 2:57 pm
ROAD TRIP! ROAD TRIP!
If we bring & distribute materials to convert the Xtians (i.e., liquor, drugs and pornograpy), can we write it off as a charitable donation?
It’s people like Monaghan that make me aware — once again — that my decision to ditch the church & religion was the right one.
2 March 2006, on 5:24 pm
“I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure”
Kidding, of course, but there is a certain attraction to having them all in one place…..
2 March 2006, on 7:38 pm
What’s funny is that Domino’s money, which is now being used to fund this theocratic enclave, was mostly raised off stoned college kids with the munchies.
2 March 2006, on 10:25 pm
Martin
Would that be the stoned college kids with munchies who pratice safe sex with birth control and options of having an abortion watching porn and violence on cable in the privacy and comfort of their own home?
3 March 2006, on 12:22 am
Jimmer, I think that would be the stoned college kids with munchies who pratice safe sex with birth control and options of having an abortion watching porn and violence on cable in the privacy and comfort of their own home who were “touched there” by Father O’Reilly when they were 8 years old.
3 March 2006, on 12:41 am
Why, yes, the very ones!
3 March 2006, on 1:35 am
“This guy and Mel Gibson can each build a town and University down the road from each other and have sports rivalries and all the rest. Then they can do The Village thing, surround their Catholic utopia with a 12 foot tall privacy fence and disappear into the mists of history.”
Actually this might just work. Consider that Israel has convinced the world that it should be able to surround itself with a “12 foot tall privacy fence”. So make that the precendence.
If they want control every single part of their citizen’s lives, make them live inside 12 foot tall concrete fences. Perhaps they will begin to see it for what is truly is, a prison.
3 March 2006, on 1:49 am
I wonder what flavor the kool-aid will be…
3 March 2006, on 3:16 am
Tony: shibboleth. Good vocab word!
3 March 2006, on 7:14 am
“Consider that Israel has convinced the world that it should be able to surround itself with a “12 foot tall privacy fence”. So make that the precendence.”
Preach this bullshit again when a member of your family has been blown up by some ass who thinks he’s getting 70 virgins for killing 70 children.
3 March 2006, on 8:35 am
Ah, no… But fuck the Israeli right wing, too. They steal people’s land and treat them like shit. It’s apartheid over there. The bigotry on both sides is boundless and based on ridiculous “rights” to land due to what is said in ancient fairy tales. They’re all fucked, from the zionist settler extremists to the screaming, exploding jihadists. I don’t want to be arguing on behalf of any of their biblically insane asses.
3 March 2006, on 9:20 am
“They steal people’s land and treat them like shit. It’s apartheid over there. ”
I think this is probably a topic we should avoid. The only thing I will say is this – how long do a people have to live somewhere before that place can be called their home? Does refugee status now pass down through generations?
“The bigotry on both sides is boundless and based on ridiculous “rights” to land due to what is said in ancient fairy tales. They’re all fucked, from the zionist settler extremists to the screaming, exploding jihadists. I don’t want to be arguing on behalf of any of their biblically insane asses. ”
On this we can agree.
3 March 2006, on 9:58 am
I would never avoid this topic. This tiny little stretch of useless dirt is the driving force behind much of the war and hatred permeating the world today. Anyone who knows a Palestinian who has either a) been back there as an American and seen how they are suddenly reduced to scum of the earth, or b) been shoved out or massacred as a result of the Palestinian diaspora imposed by the Israelis, would have some sympathy.
Fuck them. They moved in, traumatized by Nazism, and did to the Palestinians the exact same thing that was done to them. I have studied this topic pretty exhaustively and I leave it to my betters to prove the points. Read how Israel was founded. How long? Not long enough, especially if your claim on the land is based on thousands-of-years-old fairy tales.
I grew up in NYC, and my Jewish coevals are completely irrational on this subject, but I and my closest moral compatriots, who have been discussing this for years, agree: they came in, they stole the land, they killed for it, they called it their own, based on ancient scripture world sympathy at the time. Only fifty years ago. Fuck that.
I am anti-Zionist. Sure. They probably had nowhere else to go at the time, but that doesn’t mean what they did was any less evil. To quote my poor, Irish mom: two wrongs don’t make a right.
I am sick of their apartheid, and our constant arming of their sick-ass military abuse of the Middle East. Just as much as I am sick of the jihadists. See a great movie about punk rock in the “holy land” called Jericho’s Echo. Liberal Israelis are sick of it, too.
3 March 2006, on 10:25 am
Slartibartfast:
You say: “Consider that Israel has convinced the world that it should be able to surround itself with a “12 foot tall privacy fence”.”
I’m afraid that this is another US person mistaking “the world” for the USA. The real rest of the world supports the ruling by the International Court that this wall is illegal.
Lya:
You say: “Preach this bullshit again when a member of your family has been blown up by some ass who thinks he’s getting 70 virgins for killing 70 children.”
Palestine is an occupied territory and the Israelis (not to be confused with Jews, please) aren’t exactly peaceful either. And really, I can’t see why Israel shouldn’t get even a slap on the wrist for killing a Palestinian girl of 8, while the whole family of a Palestinian who does the same to an Israeli girl is wiped out – including the children.
Sean:
You say: “They moved in, traumatized by Nazism, and did to the Palestinians the exact same thing that was done to them.”
If I’m allowed to use that word here: RAMEN!
All:
Please, let us not confuse Israel with Jews, though. That’s a rhetorical trap Israel – as a state! – used to duck every criticism fired at them. And last time I checked, Arabs and Turks were Semites, too.
This differentiation is quite important to me as a German. Many Jews in Germany of the 1930ies felt that they were German and the Nazis murdered them nonetheless. Even the decorated soldiers. By confusing Jews and Israelis, one virtually forces Jews to identify with the policy of a country they might otherwise despise, since they’re declared guilty by association anyway.
This is the same reflex I notice for many US citizens over here. They ARE accosted for their government’s behaviour and held responsible (as they should be), but responsibility is not the same as guilt. If a US soldier tortures an Iraqi citizen in a jail, the guilt is on him, but the responsibility to stop the behaviour is on all US citizens.
3 March 2006, on 10:39 am
Here is a story and web site about the womens fight for peace and freedom in Afganistan. This is what we can expect if we allow fundamentalists to take over.
http://www.rawa.us/sep11-02.htm
JIM
3 March 2006, on 10:40 am
“I would never avoid this topic.”
As I respect you, I suggested avoiding it, because little good can come of it. I grow very tired of the barely containable anti-semitism that comes along with it. Which, is not an accusation against you – one does not have to hate Jews to be an anti-zionist. I myself am as well, too some degree. But, more often than not, it’s there. Which I expect you will scoff at, and that’s fine.
“This tiny little stretch of useless dirt is the driving force behind much of the war and hatred permeating the world today”
Disgustingly true.
“Anyone who knows a Palestinian who has either a) been back there as an American and seen how they are suddenly reduced to scum of the earth, or b) been shoved out or massacred as a result of the Palestinian diaspora imposed by the Israelis, would have some sympathy.”
I see. So the continued desolation of the Palestinians is Israel’s fault and not the PA’s – who, rather than giving aid to the people it was meant for sent it to Arafat’s portly wife in France. It’s Israel’s fault that the surrounding Arab nations (who expelled 700,00 Jews from their homes at the founding of Israel) who claim to have oh-so-much sympathy for the Palestinians, do absoutely nothing to aid them. Aside from sending guns and bombs and telling them who to kill.
“Fuck them. They moved in, traumatized by Nazism, and did to the Palestinians the exact same thing that was done to them.”
Are you all for treating the Israelis the way you claim it’s wrong to treat the Palestinians? Should they – most of whom were born there and took no part in the formation of the country- be forced off the land they call home because 50 years prior another group might have lived there?
“Read how Israel was founded.”
Don’t assume because I disagree with you that I haven’t.
“Not long enough, especially if your claim on the land is based on thousands-of-years-old fairy tales.”
Fairy tales aside, Sean. We both agree that is bullshit. However, is refugee status passed down through generations? If fifty years isn’t long enough how about 60? 100? Do you plan to give your land back to the Native Americans? I mean, it’s only been 400+ years, and it was clearly theirs first.
“but I and my closest moral compatriots, who have been discussing this for years, agree: they came in, they stole the land, they killed for it, they called it their own, based on ancient scripture world sympathy at the time. Only fifty years ago. Fuck that.”
Precisely what I expected to hear, and precisely why I suggested avoiding the topic. I sharply disagree, given the research I spent years doing.
“They probably had nowhere else to go at the time, but that doesn’t mean what they did was any less evil. To quote my poor, Irish mom: two wrongs don’t make a right.”
Please explain how you would “make a right.”
In truth, all Israeli’s are sick of it. Well, those who aren’t all filled with gawd, anyway. But they are no different from terrorists. I’m all for clearing out the West Bank and Gaza. That was the right thing to do. Beyond that, it becomes hypocrisy.
3 March 2006, on 10:41 am
“Palestine is an occupied territory and the Israelis (not to be confused with Jews, please) aren’t exactly peaceful either.”
Strawman. I didn’t say they were.
“And really, I can’t see why Israel shouldn’t get even a slap on the wrist for killing a Palestinian girl of 8, while the whole family of a Palestinian who does the same to an Israeli girl is wiped out – including the children.”
Strawman. Did I say anything about this at all?
3 March 2006, on 10:42 am
Annagrete said:
This differentiation is quite important to me as a German. Many Jews in Germany of the 1930s felt that they were German and the Nazis murdered them nonetheless. Even the decorated soldiers. By confusing Jews and Israelis, one virtually forces Jews to identify with the policy of a country they might otherwise despise, since they’re declared guilty by association anyway.
This is the problem I have with American Jews who knee-jerk on the subject of Israel. The most liberal American Jews will sometimes go ballistic when the sovereignty of Israel, despite its numerous crimes, is even brought into question. They would rather see America itself crumble to the ground than risk the though that Israel has made some royal fuck-ups along the way.
This is the same reflex I notice for many US citizens over here. They ARE accosted for their government’s behavior and held responsible (as they should be),
49% of America voted against Bush in the last election. Perhaps even more. Perhaps even a majority. Election fraud was again rampant in places where it really mattered: Florida and Ohio, for instance. We are fighting against theocracy and police state here, even if it’s just in its (historica)l infancy. I take no blame for any of this shit. I have fought it tooth and fucking nail.
but responsibility is not the same as guilt.
Thank you.
If a US soldier tortures an Iraqi citizen in a jail, the guilt is on him, but the responsibility to stop the behavior is on all US citizen.
Agreed. If only we weren’t having our votes and our voices actively suppressed by one of the most corrupt governments in our history. Yes, those dumb fuckheads in the Red States exist, but the other problem has been getting the word out to the rest of the world that we are fighting for our very democratic (in the purest sense of the word) lives here. Or maybe the word I am searching for is “souls”?
3 March 2006, on 10:48 am
Palestinians = Black South Africans.
Period.
Israel has been apartheid since Day One. Bullshit to call it otherwise. Complete and utter fucking racist fucking Zionist fucking bullshit.
Sorry, Lya. I respect you. But I am sick of my world being fucked up by this shit. I am a New Yorker, born and bred. And no, I am not a fucking racist, Zionist Jew, nor a screaming maniac jihadist Muslim. The Simon Wiesenthal Museum of Tolerance in L.A. offends me as much as people killing each other over cartoons of Muhammed. I am sick of seeing the complete imbalance that has come about because of the sheer wealth and influence of American Jews and the vicious, militant hypocrisy of the American war machine toward the support of militant, house shattering, child-killing Israel. There are hardly any displays in the Museum of Tolerance about what the Jews have done to the Palestinians, a crime that is truly heinous that I will not back down on.
Fuck that racism and fucking hatred.
You’re right. Drop the subject.
3 March 2006, on 10:54 am
“Palestinians = Black South Africans.
Period.”
Where-oh-where has the open mind gone?
“Clearly racism has come into play.”
Clearly, I did not call you anything. That statement was not meant to kill the convo. I was simply explaining why I suggested not getting into it.
I regretted making the first post the instant that I posted it because I knew it would creat a deluge of knee-jerk “Israel is evil” posts. Suffice it to say, I disagree based on my experiences there. Neither side has clean hands. Neither side is all right or all wrong. And, given how much time has passed they’d better start learning to live together, or they will destroy each other. And possibly us.
3 March 2006, on 11:04 am
One moves into someone’s house, and kills and kills and kills them until their body count outweighs yours by many fold, and then you claim victim status? And then you have incredibly powerful American filmmakers make movies in which you struggle with your morals over one desperate terrorist act? A terrorist is a person with no other means to fight back. None. Golda Meir was a militant fuckhead for dealing with that situation the way she did. She is the one who got those athletes killed.
Ugh. I hate this discussion. I am so sick of apologists for Israel, the poor little nation that could… Could what? Invade another people’s land after thousands of years, create a diaspora, and then claim victim status over it? Pot. Kettle. Black.
No, actually. You are exactly right. Flip it, reverse it. If American Indians came back and laid waste to San Francisco, killing and subjugating every white person in sight because of what happened 400 years ago, that would be wrong, too.
3 March 2006, on 11:23 am
“Ugh. I hate this discussion. I am so sick of apologists for Israel, the poor little nation that could”
I am equally sick of the “do to the Israelis exactly what we say is wrong to do to the Palestinians” crowd.
“No, actually. You are exactly right. Flip it, reverse it. If American Indians came back and laid waste to San Francisco, killing and subjugating every white person in sight because of what happened 400 years ago, that would be wrong, too.”
I realize this is sarcastic, however you’ve touched on my point. I am not saying Israel is a poor victim nation. That’s a flat out strawman. They are clearly the stronger entity and nearly everything they do (esp. in response to a terrorist attack) I find reprehensible and evil. However, I find little redeeming value in the action of the Palestinians either.
IMO, on both sides are civilians used as pawns. The PA doesn’t give a flying fuck about the horrid conditions in the camps (I wish I had suffice words to describe the smell) and the gov’t of Israel seems to do all it can to create further divides. The wall is a terrible idea, though I get why they did it. How many sucide bomb attacks have we heard of since? That said, the wall didn’t exist when I was there. And there were plenty of Israelis and Palestinians getting along just fine. I wonder how much that’s changed since.
The point is, a good portion Israelis living there now were born there. In the first generation, the “dismantle” Israel agenda would have made sense. Now though, it is treating Israelis exactly as the Palestinians have been. How one is right and not the other, I don’t understand. I fully disagree with the extremist agenda of getting back all of “biblical Israel” – that’s clearly ridiculous. But, people look at the picture of the Palestinian woman crying in front of the wall and have sympathy. They seen the photos of Israelis being removed from settlements also crying and say they deserve it.
Neither side is all good or all evil. And, neither side will disappear. So, to repeat, they’d better start to learn to get along. I thought perhaps, with the arch-nemises Arafat and Sharon out of the picture, they could do that. But now with Hamas in power, I’m not sure sure.
3 March 2006, on 12:38 pm
Crap, they did this all wrong. They should have waited until Monaghan had poured millions into the project before filing suit. Separate the idiot from his money first.
3 March 2006, on 2:52 pm
They tried to do something like this in Ann Arbor Michigan USA a few years ago (early 80s?) on a smaller scale. Organizations called “Word of God” and “Sword of the Spirit” formed a tight ingroup and did things like support only their approved businesses and go only to their approved doctors. It eventually fizzled.
It was in the local newspaper when I first lived there, because WOG was trying to put an end to all Halloween celebration, meaning, not allow trick-or-treating at all. For our non-US friends, that is the night children are allowed to run around their neighborhoods dressed in costumes and receive candy treats or coins. I can’t think of anything more evil
Anyway, Halloween is alive and well, and TSM has taken his show elsewhere. We deliver!
Neighbors also objected when Monaghan wanted to take off and land his private helicopter at his house. So if you want to go live in beautiful Ave Maria FL, take some good earplugs.
And yes, the pizza is terrible.
3 March 2006, on 10:08 pm
I’m told the original story (AveMaria) is a fake. There is no Catholic town popping up in Florida.
Of course, I have no way of verifying the account I read of the story being a fake. But then again, the original story is suspect enough for me to doubt its authenticity.
3 March 2006, on 10:21 pm
Hal: Dude, what are you talking about? This is an Associated Press story on Yahoo.com.
Ave Maria has been covered by dozens of major news outlets.
Here is where CNN covered it.
Here is where ABC covered it.
Here is where the Chicago Sun-Times covered it.
Here is where the Toronto Star covered it.
4 March 2006, on 2:32 am
Yeah, because the media never gets a story wrong, do they?
Like how people were turning cannibal in the Superdome? Or how the coal miners all survived.
It’s really easy how it happens. One outlet gets the “story” and prints it. The others, not wanting to miss a big scoop or juicy story, follow along.
You’ll notice that every media outlet that covered the story is just quoting the info from the Newsweek article about it.
And if you go to the website of the town, they very specifically say that the news reports are wrong.
4 March 2006, on 2:35 am
Sorry, in my first post I should have had quotes on “Catholic Town.”
4 March 2006, on 4:04 am
From the web site:
And no one is dictating what can or, in the case of Ave Maria, can’t be sold within the boundaries of the town.
“What we’re trying to do is build an open, inclusive community,” said Blake Gable, project manager for Barron Collier Cos. “Some (reports) would lead you to believe that this is going to be an exclusively Catholic community. I’m not Catholic, and I’ve been spending the past four years on this project. But it is a community based on family values.”
As first reported Thursday night on naplesnews.com and Bonitanews.com, there will not be any legal restrictions of contraceptives in the town of Ave Maria.
“It is critical to note that no restrictions will be enforced on contraceptives or any other inventory,” Ave Maria University founder Tom Monaghan and Barron Collier Cos. president Paul Marinelli said in a joint statement Thursday. “In fact, we are using the same lease for Ave Maria as the Barron Collier Cos. use elsewhere in Collier County, which prohibit certain uses that are inconsistent with traditional family values. Neither will there be restrictions enforced on programming on cable television.”
A recent Newsweek article said Ave Maria leaders were asking pharmacies not to carry contraceptives, and pharmacies that chose to honor those requests would be favored.
Gable said his company has made it clear since the beginning of the project that they would be asking companies to honor the wishes and beliefs of the town’s founder.
“This is what we have said all along,” Gable said. “Tom is spending (more than $200 million) to build a Catholic university, and those beliefs don’t stop on the edge of campus. We have just asked that in respect of the leadership’s wishes, companies refrain from selling contraceptives.”
Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida, said while Ave Maria has chosen not to legally restrict retailers from selling certain products, “it is still only half the story.”
The other half of the story falls on the 1,000 acres designated as the university.
Current university rules do not allow the campus health clinic to provide or offer reproductive health services, said AMU president Nick Healy. The same rules will stand once the permanent campus is completed, he said.
“I don’t think we can be a bona fide Catholic university and flagrantly go against Catholic (rules),” Healy said.
Healy said the university has come to a private agreement with Naples Community Hospital, which will have a clinic in the town, that would prohibit the hospital from providing reproductive health services to AMU students. Healy said he is unsure how the agreement would work out, since it is in the early stages.
But “arbitrarily discriminating” against who receives reproductive health services could lead to just as many problems as not allowing the services at all, said ACLU legal director Randall Marshall.
While a small group of private residents can get together to create rules governing a private community, like a condo or homeowners association, Marshall said Ave Maria is more than that.
“This is a project that is beyond this concept,” Marshall said. “They’re building a (town), and once this is a town, it is going to be open to the public.”
Not everyone who happens upon town will have the same beliefs as Ave Maria leadership; but that’s another myth officials are trying to bust.
In their joint statement, Monaghan and Marinelli said “the town will be open to all, regardless of age, religion or race. … The controversy over contraceptives and the portrayal of Ave Maria as a Catholic town should not and cannot overshadow the value and importance of this event.”
Barron Collier Cos. have received more than 3,000 requests for information about residences in the community. While only about 1,000 private residences will be complete in the first phase of construction, it is expected the town eventually will have about 11,000 private residences. And Ave Maria officials hope that it’s a mix of Catholics and non-Catholics alike.
“This is not going to be a Catholic town,” Healy said. “We want the town to be open to everyone.”
Healy said rather than being based on Catholic norms and morals, the community will be based upon traditional family values that often support Catholic traditions.
Are you falling for this typical Xian double-speak, Hal?
4 March 2006, on 9:03 am
Oh, sorry, Hal the Computer. I forgot you’re a fuckin’ pathetic Xian robot your self.
Love this post of yours:
http://mrhalbert.blogspot.com/2006/02/atheist-civil-rights.html
Yes, motherfucker, my rights are abridged every time I take a dollar out of my pocket and it says “In God We Trust” on it. Every time the goddamn pledge of allegiance is forced upon a child in my family with its unconstitutional “Under god” phrasing.
Oh, did I attack your poor little ass personally, waterhead? Damn right I did. Like I said, I am sick of fucking Xians this week, and you seem like a particularly stupid, young, little retarded one.
Why do I say this? Your idiotic blog is filled with apologies for the most braindead president this country has ever seen.
Read this article, you little fucknozzle. And get back to your religious studies in your elementary school.
4 March 2006, on 9:12 am
Check it out, from little retard Hal’s school paper.
Buddy of yours, Hal?
Apparently these arrogant little Xian kids still haven’t learned to stop using the word “crusade.”
I say again to Hal the Computer: you’re a robot fucknozzle.
4 March 2006, on 9:58 am
Hal,
Northwestern sucks for chemistry. Why did you go there?
4 March 2006, on 11:34 am
Northwestern sucks for chemistry? That’s the first time I’ve heard that. Last time I checked, they were ranked #3 nationally for inorganic chemistry.
In any event, I’m here because they offered me the most money (hey, a guy’s gotta eat and I didn’t want to take out loans).
As for Ave Maria, the original article is quoting people as if they were super-proud to be building a highly exclusive town. Then their own website attempts to dispel that notion. Perhaps these are people who have no compunction about looking like fools (Sean’s immediate reaction to this, I’m sure), but I’d say that an alternative explanation is more likely.
Someone from Newsweek was probably fed a bogus story and everyone else picked it up. Makes more sense to me than these people thinking they can lie about what they said to a reporter. Why would they lie about it?
And you need to come up with some more clever insults, Sean. You called me a “fucknozzle” the last time I left comments on here. Surely a freethinking individual such as yourself can come up with something better than that, hm?
4 March 2006, on 12:31 pm
Hal: You need to take a class in rhetoric. That crap on Ave Maria’s site refutes nothing. It’s typical right-wing double-speak, and clearly the real spin going on here (anyone who takes press releases from Catholic institutions more seriously than diverse secular news sources — um, this means you, fucknozzle — is suspect in his knowledge of how media works in the first place).
With a wink and a nod, they are saying they aren’t gonna do what the media is claiming the are gonna do. But at the same time, they are saying that as a Catholic town, they intend to keep all options open to do exactly what the media is saying they are gonna do. This is clear double-speak and obfuscation of their real goals.
Sorry I called you fucknozzle twice — oh wait, three times now, triple-fucknozzle.
4 March 2006, on 1:21 pm
Little wee Bush apologist Hal: How do you think your deer-caught-in-the-headlights-lookin’ idiot boy is doing on his trip to foreign lands? I love it when a man travelling to countries like India and Pakistan says things like:
“Our beef with Iran is not the pipeline. Our beef with Iran is the fact that they want to develop a nuclear weapon,” Bush said.
“Duh, I’m from Texas. And I’m too fucking stupid not to mention the word ‘beef’ in countries with large Hindu populations. I will use my dumbass colloquial expressions wherever I go, because I don’t know any other way to speak. Mmmm-duh.”
6 March 2006, on 4:54 pm
Sean, you’re not seriously suggesting that our president should actually make an attempt to learn something about the cultures of the various nations he visits are you?
Hal said: “In any event, I’m here because they offered me the most money”
Spoken like a true Christian.
10 March 2006, on 1:03 am
See dubya in action – http://www.dubyaspeak.com/incidents.phtml – anyone who apologizes for this piece of crap is as much of a moron as he is.
As for him mentioning the word beef in India and Pakistan, so what ?? Anyone who actually believes a cow, one of the dumbest animals on the planet is sacred is actually dumber than the cows. All religions are stupid and not one of them deserve a single bit of consideration.
10 March 2006, on 1:11 am
EoR said: As for him mentioning the word beef in India and Pakistan, so what ?? Anyone who actually believes a cow, one of the dumbest animals on the planet is sacred is actually dumber than the cows. All religions are stupid and not one of them deserve a single bit of consideration
Yeah, but he doesn’t know this. As we are aware, he has his own make-believe friends, and wraps himself in his own profound ignorance. One has to understand the world to some small degree before one can be dismissive of elements in it. He hasn’t earned the right to such a position; not once in his braindead, ultra-privileged life. Your great link to Dumbya moments illustrates this quite nicely. If he ain’t clearin’ brush in his childish cowboy get-up, he genuinely doesn’t seem to even know where he is.
10 March 2006, on 2:42 am
Sean,
Good point, this clueless piece of crap certainly has absolutely ZERO understanding of the world. The only things he has earned is a loser fratboy badge, a dunce cap and of course his own Guantanamo Bay jail cell.
Check out his loser resume – http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/jokes/bljokebushresume.htm
10 March 2006, on 4:01 am
Nice. I especially like the Records and References section.
10 March 2006, on 4:20 am
Hey, Lya. I took the time tonight (out of my past hectic few weeks) to re-read this thread. Sorry I tussled with you at times in harsh tones over Israel/Palestine. Not my intention. Hot-button topic, surrounded by rhetoric, as you know… I don’t always say what I mean, nor mean what I say, when it comes to this one. It is filled with emotion for me, as it clearly is for you.
When it comes to this human tragedy, it’s like sifting through rubble looking for a nugget of truth.
I respect all of what you said. As self-appointed “rationalists”, it is our unspoken obligation to try and reach the higher ground. We never truly finished this conversation, but I am satisfied for now that it bell-curved from an argument back down to a civil discussion. That’s always a good thing.
Peace.
10 March 2006, on 4:30 am
PS: Another quick thought. Living here in San Francisco offers me unique opportunities:
I can talk to children of IRA members who say things like “Kill the fuckin’ Royals. Even the children.”
I can talk to Brits who say: “The IRA are terrorist scum who should be irradicated.”
I can talk to Jews who say (and I have heard this firsthand): “All Arabs are illiterate monkeys.”
I can talk to Palestinians who say: “Kill all Jews. Drive them into the sea.”
I can even talk to Republicans that say “Global warming isn’t real. Kill all fags. Kill the lying liberal media. I love Britney Spears.”
Yes.. You can hear that in this town right along with “Impeach/Kill/Incarcerate Bush.”
San Francisco is a major port city. We get some pretty working class ideas out here, too. Not just a bunch of elitist liberal fagmongers looking for a free ride on the teat of the welfare state.
I love the fact that I can encounter all this here. But my heart jumps for joy every time someone take a different path. Not a softer path, nor a middle path, but a different path. Perhaps I will elaborate on this wonderful character trait of a slim minority in my beloved adopted town. In fact, I know I will. More to come on the subject.