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	<title>Comments on: Deconversion (part two)</title>
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	<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/04/03/deconversion-part-two/</link>
	<description>Commentary, news, and rants on the evils and stupidity of belief in the big invisible daddy in the sky.  Illuminating and watchdogging the widespread attempts to institutionalize the theocratic rule of the US. Making fun of believers everywhere.</description>
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		<title>By: Daniel Morgan</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/04/03/deconversion-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-13367</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/?p=1667#comment-13367</guid>
		<description>Lya,
When you said:
&lt;em&gt;In my defense it’s been nearly seven years and I have long accepted that life sometimes really sucks.&lt;/em&gt;

In my experience, some of the most painful things we experience can be quite difficult for us to blather on about.  We tend to keep brevity when it is a sensitive issue.  A close friend of mine committed suicide at a ripe-old-twenty-one years of age, and her death is still quite painful to talk about.  My wife and I visited her gravesite back at Xmas, and I haven&#039;t really talked much about it since.

I think that the pain and shittiness of life, as you poignantly wrote, can lead us to religion.  And the reason is simple: we are promised that we will find peace and more understanding, if only we have a relationship with the Creator of the universe.  If it were true, we would.  The pain and confusion doesn&#039;t change, though, does it?  And in fact, the confusion only gets worse, and disillusionment and bitterness can often set in afterwards.

Thank you for sharing this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lya,<br />
When you said:<br />
<em>In my defense it’s been nearly seven years and I have long accepted that life sometimes really sucks.</em></p>
<p>In my experience, some of the most painful things we experience can be quite difficult for us to blather on about.  We tend to keep brevity when it is a sensitive issue.  A close friend of mine committed suicide at a ripe-old-twenty-one years of age, and her death is still quite painful to talk about.  My wife and I visited her gravesite back at Xmas, and I haven&#8217;t really talked much about it since.</p>
<p>I think that the pain and shittiness of life, as you poignantly wrote, can lead us to religion.  And the reason is simple: we are promised that we will find peace and more understanding, if only we have a relationship with the Creator of the universe.  If it were true, we would.  The pain and confusion doesn&#8217;t change, though, does it?  And in fact, the confusion only gets worse, and disillusionment and bitterness can often set in afterwards.</p>
<p>Thank you for sharing this.</p>
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		<title>By: Lya Kahlo</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/04/03/deconversion-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-10982</link>
		<dc:creator>Lya Kahlo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/?p=1667#comment-10982</guid>
		<description>&quot;The kindness, intellectualness, and open-mindedness of your rabbis is what I was refering to, not the misogyny, magic, and nit-picking of Judaism.&quot;

You&#039;ll find both.  Though, the nastier bits you&#039;ll pretty much only find on the orthodox end. I never heard a reconstructionist or reform Jew tell someone else they&#039;re not &quot;really&quot; Jewish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The kindness, intellectualness, and open-mindedness of your rabbis is what I was refering to, not the misogyny, magic, and nit-picking of Judaism.&#8221;</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll find both.  Though, the nastier bits you&#8217;ll pretty much only find on the orthodox end. I never heard a reconstructionist or reform Jew tell someone else they&#8217;re not &#8220;really&#8221; Jewish.</p>
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		<title>By: K'vitsh</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/04/03/deconversion-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-10930</link>
		<dc:creator>K'vitsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 01:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/?p=1667#comment-10930</guid>
		<description>Uh, I should probably clarify. The kindness, intellectualness, and open-mindedness of your rabbis is what I was refering to, not the misogyny, magic, and nit-picking of Judaism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh, I should probably clarify. The kindness, intellectualness, and open-mindedness of your rabbis is what I was refering to, not the misogyny, magic, and nit-picking of Judaism.</p>
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		<title>By: K'vitsh</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/04/03/deconversion-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-10929</link>
		<dc:creator>K'vitsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 01:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/?p=1667#comment-10929</guid>
		<description>That was lovely. I think your pain and grief over Simon was clearly and eloquently expressed.

I&#039;m currently atheist/agnostic/Buddhist and still not fully formed, as it were, in my religious/non-religious identity.

I was raised Xian (intermittently, for which I&#039;ll always be grateful. The intermitent part, I mean. Made it easier to extricate myself.), but have always felt a pull toward Judaism (hency my yiddish pen name).

This post is a little peek into why.

Thank you for writing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was lovely. I think your pain and grief over Simon was clearly and eloquently expressed.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m currently atheist/agnostic/Buddhist and still not fully formed, as it were, in my religious/non-religious identity.</p>
<p>I was raised Xian (intermittently, for which I&#8217;ll always be grateful. The intermitent part, I mean. Made it easier to extricate myself.), but have always felt a pull toward Judaism (hency my yiddish pen name).</p>
<p>This post is a little peek into why.</p>
<p>Thank you for writing it.</p>
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		<title>By: MoeHammered</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/04/03/deconversion-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-10876</link>
		<dc:creator>MoeHammered</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Apr 2006 19:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/?p=1667#comment-10876</guid>
		<description>Lya - amazing stuff, yet again.
Your writing captures and conveys your experience with focus, wit, and wisdom.  Your talent for being emotionally true yet rationally curious and observant is always a pleasure to read.
If I could see you, I&#039;d be trying desperately to make eye-babies with you.
&quot;Comment-posting babies&quot; lacks the fundie nutjob flavor, but I&#039;m giving it a go.
Feel the love of my helvetica.

Looking forward to your next post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lya &#8211; amazing stuff, yet again.<br />
Your writing captures and conveys your experience with focus, wit, and wisdom.  Your talent for being emotionally true yet rationally curious and observant is always a pleasure to read.<br />
If I could see you, I&#8217;d be trying desperately to make eye-babies with you.<br />
&#8220;Comment-posting babies&#8221; lacks the fundie nutjob flavor, but I&#8217;m giving it a go.<br />
Feel the love of my helvetica.</p>
<p>Looking forward to your next post.</p>
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		<title>By: Lya Kahlo</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/04/03/deconversion-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-10827</link>
		<dc:creator>Lya Kahlo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Apr 2006 13:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/?p=1667#comment-10827</guid>
		<description>Proof positive that for theists the final wishes of the deceased can be totally ignored in favor of their own selfish desires. That’s sick.  But, I fear the same thing will happen to me when I kick it – if my family is in control that is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Proof positive that for theists the final wishes of the deceased can be totally ignored in favor of their own selfish desires. That’s sick.  But, I fear the same thing will happen to me when I kick it – if my family is in control that is.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/04/03/deconversion-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-10819</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Apr 2006 12:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/?p=1667#comment-10819</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Lya.  No.  He was an atheist, and having people fight over his cremation and burial is the last thing he would have wanted. He did end up cremated, for which we, the father and son, were blamed for setting in motion.  

We planned to scatter his ashes over a lake he loved as a child -- instead the ashes were taken by his mother and buried in a place he had no fondness for in the Southwest. She did this by flying in at the 11th hour and telling the funeral home that the father was responsible for the boy&#039;s death (an outrageous falsehood, considering her own many-year absence at the time) and to not let him anywhere near the proceedings. It was very ugly and took years of reconciliation between my sister and me... Who were pawns in the whole thing.

All of this was to prove to us that her son was in heaven and that she was damned if she was going to let us say otherwise.  All we were saying was that he was an atheist, something she did not understand nor even know about him, and that he would not have wanted all of this misery and infighting over his remains.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Lya.  No.  He was an atheist, and having people fight over his cremation and burial is the last thing he would have wanted. He did end up cremated, for which we, the father and son, were blamed for setting in motion.  </p>
<p>We planned to scatter his ashes over a lake he loved as a child &#8212; instead the ashes were taken by his mother and buried in a place he had no fondness for in the Southwest. She did this by flying in at the 11th hour and telling the funeral home that the father was responsible for the boy&#8217;s death (an outrageous falsehood, considering her own many-year absence at the time) and to not let him anywhere near the proceedings. It was very ugly and took years of reconciliation between my sister and me&#8230; Who were pawns in the whole thing.</p>
<p>All of this was to prove to us that her son was in heaven and that she was damned if she was going to let us say otherwise.  All we were saying was that he was an atheist, something she did not understand nor even know about him, and that he would not have wanted all of this misery and infighting over his remains.</p>
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		<title>By: Lya Kahlo</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/04/03/deconversion-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-10813</link>
		<dc:creator>Lya Kahlo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Apr 2006 11:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/?p=1667#comment-10813</guid>
		<description>The reason why they do it is the &quot;rabbinical decree&quot; I mentioned. They refer to the extra rules the Rabbis come up with as the &quot;fence around the law&quot;.  They take the extreme precautions because even though the world evolves, religion does not and they have to keep coming up with new ways to avoid breaking the laws.  

The point isn&#039;t punishment, however.  They&#039;re not xians.  They don&#039;t think god will personally punish them for writing their name on the sabbath.  The point is that the sabbath is supposed to be a day of rest - total rest.  Handling a pencil could lead to writing, which is forbidden.  The same with everything else. 


Sean - I&#039;m very sorry to hear that.  Religion even creates problems for you after your dead.  I hope your brother got the burial he would have wanted, if nothing else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason why they do it is the &#8220;rabbinical decree&#8221; I mentioned. They refer to the extra rules the Rabbis come up with as the &#8220;fence around the law&#8221;.  They take the extreme precautions because even though the world evolves, religion does not and they have to keep coming up with new ways to avoid breaking the laws.  </p>
<p>The point isn&#8217;t punishment, however.  They&#8217;re not xians.  They don&#8217;t think god will personally punish them for writing their name on the sabbath.  The point is that the sabbath is supposed to be a day of rest &#8211; total rest.  Handling a pencil could lead to writing, which is forbidden.  The same with everything else. </p>
<p>Sean &#8211; I&#8217;m very sorry to hear that.  Religion even creates problems for you after your dead.  I hope your brother got the burial he would have wanted, if nothing else.</p>
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