Deconversion Part 3
5 April 2006 by AaronPart 3: Atheism
When I left Judaism I sank into deep depression for a while. I felt like a failure. I felt rejected by god. From betrayal to misogyny to atheistic books my path out of religion wore on me. Brokenhearted and feeling very alone, life sucked for a while. During that time the theist assertion that life is nothing without god felt like it was incredibly true. I was reading more and more atheistic literature, but since at this point it was too early to give a name to the new thoughts in my head, and to soon after spending so much time in religion to get over the loss of it, I was detached from it.
Then, more death. My best friend from childhood was one of those guards for armored vans that pick up and drop off money from banks. In August 2004 two men in full body armor robbed them as they came out of the store. My friend, who’d just turned 29 and whose son had just turned 1, was shot three times. The thieves never spoke – they never demanded the money from him. They just killed him and took it.
I hadn’t talked to him in years. I hadn’t seen him in even more years. This was about seven months into my abandonment of religion. He was one of those friends (that I hope everyone has) that even when you were feeling like the entire world was against you, you knew this person was in your corner. If we had met again, we would have picked up right where we left off. He was the most innocuous and gentle person I’d ever known. He was a neo-pagan (when I knew him) and would never have hurt even a fly. Cliche, but true.
I mourned him. I went to the memorial service. Because of his death, a few long lost friends were reunited for a little while. But his son will never know the wonderful man his father was. His wife, who suffers from Huntington Disease will ultimately make the child an orphan.
The religious and atheist sides of myself were warring it out. The religious side was saying ‘how could the loving lord do this to this family? They were good people, they didn’t hurt anyone, they didn’t deserve this. How could a loving god make this part of his plan? I don’t understand. I should pray on it.”
Then, a truly revolutionary thought occured to me. If there was no god, there is no “divine plan”. God wasn’t rejecting me. God didn’t make it part of his plan to make me fail with religion. God wasn’t out to punish this innocent family. God didn’t allow the two worthless fucks who killed him to get away scot free. God isn’t there at all.
That thought rocked my world. Here I was, after all those years of study, realizing what Isaac and Simon were trying to tell me. It wasn’t that they followed god because it made them happy whether it was true or not. It was that they made themselves happy via religion. They didn’t care whether or not there was a god.
I FINALLY got it. The question isn’t “Is there a god?” The question is “Does it matter?”
Religion is a man made thing. It attempts to describe god, give attributes to god, and assign desires to god that are human-based. People wrote the words, people repeat the words, people believe the words – all without a shred of evidence. Because it makes them happy. Ultimately, religion is an attempt to be happy and stay happy in the face of reality. All the other bullshit that comes with it, is the fault of humans, not the myths they create. It creates a sense of community.
What I found out is that atheism does that infinitely better. Instead of creating divides between people – catholic xian v baptist xian, shiite v sunni, reform v orthodox, muslim v hindu, xian v muslim, black v white, gay v straight etc etc etc – it gives us all equal footing. Atheists are united by one thing – a lack of belief in gods. That’s it. Therefore, it doesn’t matter if you’re a transvestite hooker from Queens, or a big game hunting republican from Texas- we’re all just atheists.
Religion also creates a sense of superiority. I.e. Baptists don’t like Catholics because they “worship Mary”, Catholics don’t like non-catholics because they strayed from the one true church(tm). Muslims don’t like other religions because they aren’t Islam. Etc etc (note: Judaism is the only one of the big three that says that non-Jews -providing that they are righteous people – will still go to heaven. Odd that its theological children (Xianity and Islam) do not.)
Even the variances in atheism – strong v weak – never cause us to take up weapons and destroy each other. I’ve never seen a strong atheist tell a weak atheist that their less of an atheist because they don’t agree. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, of course, as there are assholes in every bunch. But, it still never causes death and destruction. Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine and now Iraq can all attest that the same is not true with religion is part of the mix.
It was then that I caught the scent of The Selfish Gene (by Dawkins) and The Meme Machine (by Blackmore). Those of you who’ve read them (and if you haven’t, do so immediately!) know exactly what happened then. “Religion is a mind virus”.
(It should be noted here that at this point I was dating a guy who claimed to be an atheist – and in fact directed me to some more research material that further aided my search – but who turned out to be a hardcore xian. Apparently lying about “devotion to god” is forgivable – esp if it gets them some ass.)
There isn’t anything in the bible that praises intelligence and now I know why. But in this modern, highly interactive age, there is no excuse for remaining ignorant of facts. Learn. Read. Explore. Whether or not god is out there doesn’t matter. What matters is how you live this life, how you treat other human beings. It’s clear religion is counter to both of these things. It focuses on the next life and how to get yourself into it. It does not improve life or those who believe it. It teaches them that even though they’re gods special people, they’re also still dirty, evil sinners. But instead of blaming religion, they blame themselves. It’s a con job. A total mind-fucking con job. Voltaire said: “The first priest was the first scoundrel who met the first fool.” There is no better definition of religion.
Theists have repeated the old lie that atheists are just full of hate, or depression and they just hate god a million times. I was a god-hater for a little while. Having been betrayed, lied to, told the because I’m female I’m second rate, having seen the divisive damage religion does – I did hate it for a little while. I know now, though, that at that point I wasn’t an atheist yet. Maltheist, definiately. Not an atheist.
It was that realization (and a lot more reading and researching) that forced me to reconsider and become, truly, an atheist.
My desire (and follow through) to do more volunteer work sky rocketed after I figured this out. My compassion for all humanity skyrocketed after this. I no longer see walls that can’t be broken down. There is only . . . possibilities. The saying it true – without god, all things are possible. There isn’t a divine plan beating me down, there are no divisions between people that aren’t man-made, there is nothing to religion but recycled myths and old superstitions. Do I hate religion? Yes. Because it does nothing but damage and hinders human growth. Do I hate theists? No. I forgive them; they know not what they do. We are opposition to their indoctrination. So of course they hate us, of course they don’t trust us. (and I think, they fear we’re right.)
So, every time a theist tells me that I just don’t know, or that I haven’t given it a shot they should know I flip them off. I looked deeper and longer than the average theist does. When they tell me they feel sorry for me, I do feel sorry for them. They’re adults who haven’t escaped. And when they tell me they’ll pray for me, I say thanks for not doing anything.
So in conclusion:
I have no regrets. I lost the fantasy that is God, but, I still have that white teddy bear, pictures and keepsakes from my dearly departed and the confidence that comes from “been there, done that”. These things are real. These things exist. God does not. And that is a wonderful thing.
Fini
5 April 2006, on 11:59 am
Superb writing. This series requires a link from me.
5 April 2006, on 12:40 pm
An excellent finale, Lya, with many resonating passages. May I quote from you with all due credit, of course?
5 April 2006, on 12:49 pm
Sure. Tell me where. If I don’t have your blogrolled I will do so.
5 April 2006, on 1:14 pm
Lovely series, I can relate to much of what you’ve said. And you’re absolutely right that you looked harder and tried more than the average theist does- the average theist never tries at all, is never even asked to, but just meanders on down the path that they’ve always taken, the one of least resistance.
That’s the trouble with atheism- getting out of the religious worldview is hard and sometimes it really sucks. No warm fuzzies will be allocated to you- you’re responsible for yourself. In the end, you just have to ask yourself whether or not it’s worth it to try and know the world and the reality of human life. I don’t doubt for a minute that it is.
5 April 2006, on 3:25 pm
Lya, I’m afraid I don’t have my own blog, but I would love to be able to quote some of your passages in my conversations and writings with others. I can always link back to this piece as well.
Sometimes it really sucks not to be in the 21st century; I don’t have a computer at home (did in the past, hope to have soon, long story having to do with money and technology), so I’m limited right now to interacting through my work computer.
5 April 2006, on 3:43 pm
i have to say, it takes a lot to say the things you’ve said, basically spilling out your heart (and i’m sure there’s more to the story). i find it interesting (my uncle was a rabbi who died around 2 years ago-my favorite person) about your jewish background. obviously i’m a christian but my jewish heritage definitely gives me that sense of community that you appear to share with the stone family-which is awesome. your story definitely shows me the murderous power of religion. religion is crap, i could not agree with you more, it has been the excuse used for murder, political power and many other atrocities that the God you dont believe in wouldnt tolerate. i’m not here to convert you, i just enjoy the conversation at gifs, please dont think i have a hidden agenda. you obviously have had some bad experiences with people claiming to be people of God and while i cant apologize for them (i wish i could) i do know what i have to do in my personal life to show that i am a person who if i say i believe in God, the source of all that is good and the source of love, than my practice better reflect that. thank you so much for your story and your honesty and for opening my eyes to what it is i have to do.
)
-awesome posts- (and i mean that
5 April 2006, on 4:17 pm
Bravo, Lya.
5 April 2006, on 4:18 pm
Lya,
I would like to thank you for your thoughtful and deeply moving 3 part piece. I am an infrequent visitor to the site and usually have come to have a good laugh or experience righteous indignation at my own expense (I am a Roman Catholic). However, the strength of your narrative and your ability to capture in Part II the feeling of being outside of one’s faith was compelling. I truly appreciate your honesty and courage and it resonated deeply with me.
As a cradle Catholic I never expected to find myself censured by my church. After multiple in-vitro attempts I am barred from participating in rituals that I have practiced my whole life. I have asked priests why when the church compels us to use all scientific means to prolong life (keep those machines pumping!)why is it wrong to employ technology to aid in fertilization, even if outside the body. The answers have been vague at best and the phrase “slippery slope” is used much too often. I have seen the guilt and pain this has caused others in my situation. A dear friend in her 8th month of pregnancy (aided by in-vitro) confessed to me that she feared her daughter would be born without a soul because of the way she was conceived. While I understand that Atheists do not believe in a soul, you might agree hers was a tragic and unnecessary concern for a believing parent to have. I lay the blame for this cruelty firmly at the steps of my church.
While I don’t see myself becoming an Atheist in the near future, I will give a nod to the thesis that fear keeps people beleiving. I have watched as scores of clergy from all denominations have tried to impart some degree of sense and comfort to funeral attendees. As of yet the only one who succeeded had the easy task of burying a 102 year old woman who had a wonderful outlook on a hard life and swift unpainful death. In the end he plagiarized William Faulkner and extolled us all to “endure and prevail”.
Thank you again for sharing your journey with us.
5 April 2006, on 5:20 pm
Marianne: what rituals are you barred from participating in? What does barring you mean? That you’re going to spend some time in pergatory before you get into heaven?
What’s the RC church’s official position on in-vitro fertilization? Would they actually take the view, as your friend feared, that such babies are born without a soul?
5 April 2006, on 6:19 pm
Great series, Lya. Brave, moving, and gripping. And, of course, right. Glad you shared it with us.
5 April 2006, on 6:51 pm
This series was great Lya. It is indeed a moving story. Thanks for taking the time to write about your experiences. You have done a lot of searching for truth.
I have my own lengthy story and since I am much older than you it would be way too long! I am going to be 52 this year and have experienced much. I have done a lot of searching and questioning and learning over the years. Coming to the realization that there was not a mere whim on my part. I had to DEPROGRAM myself, and step back from it all. I have been at peace with this realization and if it weren’t for others trying to force their religion back on me, life would be even more peaceful.
5 April 2006, on 7:35 pm
I would love to read on your experience with theism, stardust.
Lya, it was a great series. Thanks for sharing your experience with religion with us.
5 April 2006, on 9:14 pm
roya,
One of these days I will have to write it out and see if I can consolidate all those years where it won’t bore the hell out of everyone! LOL!
My husband and I went through all the questioning and examination of ourselves and religion while in the process of raising kids! Our kids were always asking questions that made US ask ourselves, “what the hell are we doing?!” LOL! We raised them to be freethinkers even while we were still trying to be xians and that just made us realize what a bunch of crap it was. Like my daughter saying “Because I’m not bad” when my husband asked why she wasn’t saying the confessional prayer the last time we were in a church service. Out of the mouths of babes!
Our kids were doubtful already and our explanations seemed well…STUPID. So, to sum it up, we all left the stupid gawd beliefs behind officially as a family in 1996. My three kids are in their 20s and all are atheists, though like Sam Harris, they don’t like the label “atheist”. They say they are HUMAN BEINGS. I like that. I am a human being.
6 April 2006, on 12:46 am
Lya, great job. You’re always a great read, but this even more so.
6 April 2006, on 1:01 am
star said:
Like my daughter saying “Because I’m not bad” when my husband asked why she wasn’t saying the confessional prayer the last time we were in a church service. Out of the mouths of babes!
That’s awesome, Star!
And a child shall lead them.
6 April 2006, on 6:14 am
Thanks for all the thanks!
“While I understand that Atheists do not believe in a soul, you might agree hers was a tragic and unnecessary concern for a believing parent to have. I lay the blame for this cruelty firmly at the steps of my church.”
I can’t say all atheists don’t believe in them. I don’t. So yes, I lay the blame for that unnecessary guilt on the steps of religion. There was a comedian who said that the Church is lucky the whole no surrogate mother thing wasn’t in place before Christ was born.
You make an excellent point. If euthanasia is wrong, and we’re supposed to do all things to defy death, why is using medical technology to create life wrong? I love that they have no answer to that. So much for religion having all of them.
It’s never been my point to try to deconvert others. As I’ve said I don’t care what others believe in, insofar as it doesn’t affect my life. Rather, I would like theists to understand that atheists were not raised in a vaccuum. Most of us have a religious background. Esp if they’re Americans. I get so tired of being told by theists that I don’t know what I’m talking about, or that I should try to open my heart. I did those things. I found nothing. I am an atheist.
~~
Star – you should totally write it out. Every deconversion story is important as they illustrate that we’re not monsters with no morals, with no knowledge of religion, who want to eat their babies.
6 April 2006, on 7:58 am
i really want to hear more stories of people with a church background if at all possible
6 April 2006, on 9:33 am
We will not entertain your notion that all atheists are former theists who had an inadequate church.
6 April 2006, on 9:48 am
Careful! He’ll call you stupid when he doesn’t understand your posts.
6 April 2006, on 10:16 am
that’s not what i said, all i said was i want to hear more stories, man you guys are paranoid
6 April 2006, on 10:29 am
It was a joke, James- lighten up a little.
6 April 2006, on 10:33 am
“It was a joke, James- lighten up a little.”
*lol* Marcus. That’s like asking him to think. He’s not allowed.
6 April 2006, on 10:36 am
Maybe the “Womb that destroyed New York” would lighten him up.
6 April 2006, on 10:44 am
I don’t know. He’s an xian – he might be offended by the display of lady parts. >:)
6 April 2006, on 11:29 am
I, too, spent several years immersing myself in Christianity, trying to find the path. The experience was a do-over, so to speak, from my childhood indoctrination. I realized that I was taught to believe, instead of finding truth in it. Regardless of that fact, the idea that morality is tied to a belief in god (Christ) was burned into my brain.
In my early twenties, I decided to wipe the slate clean, and take the religion seriously. It was time to figure it out. I took great pains to be sincere in my efforts. If god was there, I wanted to be a part of his plan. If heaven was real, I wanted to go. Of course being taught of this “real god” was always in my head. I assumed that finding god was not a matter of IF, but WHEN.
Skipping the details… I eventually felt the ever-poking finger of reality on my forehead. And so began my rise from spooks-ville through agnosticism, nonreligion, and finally atheism. I’ve embraced logic, reason, skepticism… and found them to be powerful, enlightening tools for the world around me.
I understand exactly what it feels like to have given god a real effort, only to be doubted by a theist. It’s the long version of our stories, like yours, that validates our positions. The problem is, its not worth the effort every time someone says “try Jesus”. In fact, it’s quite exhausting. When an ignorant theist tries to dismiss all of my experieces with one statement, it makes me so unbelievably angry!
How dare anyone say to me “you weren’t sincere” or “you didn’t believe with all of your heart”. They’re more than ready to offer suggestions to correct a nonbeliver, but unwilling to accept that their advice fails when put to the test. I’ve tried it for myself. The blame always falls on me because “god doesn’t fail anyone.”
I’m new to GifS. I’ve enjoyed everything I have read so far, but your deconversion story is the best. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your account. Not only is it valuable to fellow atheists, but it may just help a few theists realize their ignorance. Many of us HAVE “tried Jesus”.
6 April 2006, on 2:55 pm
james: i want to hear more stories
Both stardust1954 and I have submitted stories recounting our personal experiences; I can’t speak for the guys, since they’ve been here longer and may have personal stories in the archives, I don’t know. I personally intend to post more stories about my own experiences, and I imagine other people will, so stay tuned.
6 April 2006, on 5:37 pm
I’m kind of curious what the deconverted rationalists think about those of us who were never successfully integrated with some popular abrahamic meme complex..
I’ve never felt guilty, never had the fear of torture by loving omnipotent sky beasts.. Is there a general sense that we are more shark food than you? (g)
Could we collaborate, compare experiences and other circumstances and come up with a better understanding of what factors can be influenced to reduce the rate of infection?
I think we should work towards improving a methodology application of which would insure that future generations enjoy a much less superstitious world.
Enjoy these types of deconversion stories.. Without them, I have virtually no experience with the strange and truely fucked up mind of a believer.
Sigh.
It takes truely sick fucks to psychologically torture children with violent mythological crap.
Keep em coming!
6 April 2006, on 7:21 pm
roya, star: I personally would love to hear more about your life experiences with religion. I’m especially interested in yours, roya (no offense, star), because I have such little contact with any belief system other than judaism and xianity, and I’m sure I probably harbor a lot of misconceptions about islam. I’ve read a little bit about the history of zoroastrianism (the native religion of Iran, right?), but this is very new ground for me.
Marianne, Sean: I don’t know what the RCC’s position overall is on in-vitro fertilization, but I do know that the Costa Rican government banned it outright in that country under pressure from the RCC. Although most Latin American governments are basically secular, the RCC is most definitely *not* giving up its stranglehold on their societies and cultures at all easily, especially with the massive conversion efforts by Protestant and Mormon missionaries.
6 April 2006, on 8:51 pm
thanks again, eve, i’ll have to check that out. have a good weekend.
and lya, i know that is just a way of shamelessly flirting w/me.
oo la la :*
6 April 2006, on 9:07 pm
Now James is starting to turn my stomach.
6 April 2006, on 9:53 pm
If he’s turning yours, imagine Lya’s…
6 April 2006, on 10:06 pm
thanks again, eve, i’ll have to check that out. have a good weekend.
and lya, i know that is just a way of shamelessly flirting w/me.
oo la la :*
He’s trying to be “cool” to fit in with the evil atheist crowd. LOL!
6 April 2006, on 10:08 pm
Why does the image of Ned Flanders pop into my mind when reading james’ comments?
7 April 2006, on 6:21 am
“and lya, i know that is just a way of shamelessly flirting w/me.”
Sorry. I only flirt with men, not little boys who have imaginary friends.
Which means, I only shamelessly flirt with Sean, Bob, Ron, Ryan, Marcus, King, Eor, etc.
7 April 2006, on 7:44 am
(As the music hits a headbanging crescendo, Lya’s male fans all whoop and holler and throw articles of clothing on the stage.)
RYAN: Bob, you wear a thong, dude??
BOB: Shut up, dude, it’s comfortable!
RON: How is ass-floss comfortable?!
SEAN: Yeah, dude, how’d you go from boxer briefs to a thong??
BOB: (under his breath) Shut up, man… The wife likes it.
LYA: ROCKSTAR! Get your ass on the stage!
RYAN: Oh, shit, that’s my cue!
(Rockstar Ryan rips his shirt off, dons a dog collar and jumps up on stage next to Lya. They both belt out the final chorus together. Lya slings her guitar over her back and squats cat-like on the edge of the stage.)
LYA: (with come-hither finger motions) Here, Bobby, Bobby.
SEAN: (to Bob) Oh, shit, man. She digs the thong.
(The audience chants BOBBY! BOBBY! BOBBY! He is paralyzed with stage-fright. Ryan is bouncing maniacally all over the stage, trying to come up with a better finale than Bob’s thong. Rob has gone for a beer. KR, Ford, EoR and Marcus come speeding into the concert hall on Harleys, screeching to a halt mere feet from the stage. Marcus jumps off his bike, runs up and plants a wet one on Lya. She promptly places him under a stiletto-heeled boot.)
MARCUS: (barely audible) mommy.
KR, FORD, EOR, SEAN: Let’s get ‘im!!
(All the other boys grab Bob and lift his half-naked, thong-wearin’ patootie into the air, about to hurl him onstage, when suddenly his wife comes leaping out of nowhere, dressed in a dominatrix outfit.)
D: Bobby!!
(She cracks her whip and adjusts her cat mask.)
Bob: (hanging upside-down, blood rushing to his head) Yeah, babe?
D: I told you to get that thong on and meet me in the car in 15 minutes! We’ve got a fetish party to go to!
BOB: Oh, right, babe. Hey, boys. Can you, uh… lemme down, please?
(They do so. D wraps her whip around Bob’s neck. He grabs it and yanks her to him for a manly kiss. Lifting her up in his arms, he carries her into the dark as she giggles and kicks her boots in the air. On stage, Rockstar and Lya belt out their final lines. Lya chews a bite out of the kick drum. The band explodes, leaving behind only small globules of green liquid. Lya wipes a bead of sweat off her brow, hurls her microphone into the balcony, braining a stoned Slash look-alike.)
LYA: Okay, boys. Party in the green room in five.
(She blows them all kisses, grabs Rockstar by the collar and leads him offstage in a cloud of theater smoke. The other guys all go scrambling for the men’s room to check and see if there is any cilantro left in their teeth from the burritos they had earlier. Silence. Re-enter Ron from ceiling. Ron is wearing a cloak and should descend slowly.]
RON: (alights, takes sip from beer) Where’d everybody go?
7 April 2006, on 7:48 am
*blushes*
7 April 2006, on 2:44 pm
*lmao*
7 April 2006, on 2:52 pm
Hehe.
Acknowledgments to the works of Rockstar Ryan
13 April 2006, on 1:45 pm
To J.S.Brown, post #25. Thanks for your excellent comments, and welcome!
3 January 2007, on 12:01 pm
Bravo!