Are you an "out" atheist?
23 May 2006 by Sean
We have a lot of people who pass through God is for Suckers! from all stripes of life. Many come from different cultures, are of different ages — and certainly, as this discussion showed, both of the “standard” genders are well-represented (where are you LGBT atheists? I know we have at least a few!).
Anyway, to the point. I have heard a number of people on here, many of them long-time posters, casually mention that they are not “out” as atheists in their community. We all know that, in a world full of believers — many of whom can be dangerous to one’s health — coming out and screaming “I’m an atheist” at the Memorial Day Parade may not be the safest way to continue living in harmony with one’s neighbors.
I would love to hear from people about their experiences as out — or not out — atheists. If you are out, who knows you’re an atheist? Your family, your friends, your whole community? If you are not out, the same questions apply… And I would love to hear why you have stayed “in the closet” or, conversely, why/how you have come out. What is your story? If out, how did you go about it? If closeted, how is it affecting your life?
I have elaborated a bit in the past over my own “outness,” so I won’t bore you with the details here. Suffice to say that I feel very lucky: I live in a very tolerant city; my nuclear family, as small as it may be, is 100% atheist; I even work with a number of people who are also non-theists and with whom I have wonderful, open conversations about the joys of secular life (and the horrors of organized religion).
The immediate neighborhood that I live in is mostly Mexican Catholic, so I probably wouldn’t do well to march around holding a “God is dead” sign (although not far from my apartment someone has a poster in their window asking “Who would Jesus bomb?”)… But in the end, I don’t feel oppressed, at least when I am not traveling. Again, I feel very lucky in this regard. And I know this is not the case for all — or perhaps even most — atheists.
So… Let’s hear those stories! What’s it like being a godless heathen, in the Year of Our Lord 2006, out there in the wilds of Planet Earth?
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23 May 2006, on 3:48 pm
I am “out” and have been since I was in High School. I live in the Mountain West, and it is not very easy to be out here. I have mananged to piss off the belivers on more than one occation. While I have been told that I am going to Hell, what is the hardest is the ones that either refuse to accept that I am an athiest, or assume that I am really agnoistic, but confused about what that means.
They will often try to draw me into the “if there is no god, then why does x exist/happen/not happen conversation”. After a while they tend to wind up in the pissed off category. I have lost friends due to the fact that they can’t trust someone that will not be threatend or bribed by God into following thier way. They think that somehow if I don’t follow a 2000 year old book I have no morals or ethics.
It generally sucks, but it sure sucks less than basing my world view on oberviously harmful and false ideas.
23 May 2006, on 4:06 pm
Gay atheist here — out on both fronts.
My parents are Evangelicals. Although coming out as a gay man was hard (in high school) it really is challenged by the drama that ensued once I told my parents that I no longer believe in any gods. Boy-howdy! That was a real knock-down, drag-out fight. My brother was especially upset, for some reason.
Anyway, they’re better now with regard to the gay thing. The atheist thing, though, is still a topic I refuse to broach no matter to what extent they goad me with their blather about praying for me and the endless e-mails with nonsensical praise and stories about god’s wonderful grace. Barf!
I am more than willing to share the ‘good news’ of atheism with anyone who will listen, but I certainly don’t beat people over the head with it. I do not hesitate to make a comment when someone says something that presupposes my belief in a deity. I have lived the past thirteen years in San Francisco and Los Angeles, so fortunately my viewpoint has yet to cause me any bodily harm from any of Christ’s “loving” soldiers.
I drove around for years with a ‘Darwin Loves You’ sticker on my car. I think the best way to introduce atheism to people is via science, which is a more sympathetic path than the good ol’ “you’re both stupid and boring for believing in god” tack. If you introduce people to the scientific method and to rational thought, I believe eventually many/most of those who internalize it will arrive on their own at the conclusion that there exists no real reason to believe in a god.
23 May 2006, on 4:13 pm
I’m not out to my family or a lot of people from my hometown, but I’m mostly out to my coworkers. I don’t handle confrontations very well, so when the environment seems like it could be hostile, I would rather just not say anything. But it’s been a very long time since I said something that was meant to imply that I believe in god. I often phrase things in theoreticals, or as part of an argument, but it’s always in the context of “wouldn’t god do this..?” or “if god does this..”
I’ve got a couple of friends who have come to me, not knowing that I was an atheist but knowing that I don’t go to church and never ever talk about religion being any factor at all in my life, and tell me their doubts and thoughts that maybe it’s all a crock. I like to think that I’m there for them and can maybe help them get past the conditioning and over to the rational side.
23 May 2006, on 4:19 pm
Yes, when I am around people (not that often, but it happens!) whose beliefs definitely swing toward the “fear o’ god” angle, I also do the theoretical thing. “Well… I suppose a loving god would…” Sometimes that is an easy way to slyly find the other atheists/agnostics at a party.
23 May 2006, on 4:44 pm
My wife knows, she’s an atheist too.
My parent in-laws know, they’ve recently found Jesus. They blame me for my wife’s lack of belief, which she had before I met her. I just helped her get in touch with it.
My sister knows, doesn’t bother her. Not sure if my parents know.
People I worked with until recently knew, and for many of them, you could see the discomfort when it came up, but it didn’t cause friction. I think that’s why one of my co-workers delighted in bringing it up.
I live in Godless Seattle now though. Things were a lot different back in Indy.
23 May 2006, on 5:08 pm
I live in a larger southeastern city. My husband and I are both atheists, and we are only out to a couple of select friends. I have not told my parents, and even if I do I probably will not use the term ‘atheist’ because of the negative connotations attached to it. On the other hand, it would probably help them to see that an ‘atheist’ is not a bad person, that it can be any decent person with morals and ethics and values, it could even be their own daughter.
It’s really hard to not be out. I am constantly getting email forwards and other reminders of how different I am from everyone around me. I hope to grow some balls soon so I can speak out about who I am. I’m also currently wondering what types of discourse might be initiated if I smack the FSM on the back of my car.
23 May 2006, on 5:30 pm
I’m out to friends and family and don’t have any problems. Most of my neighbors are mowing their lawns on Sunday mornings. So, it’s very easy for me to be out. My daughter and I regularly chastise Christians (she’s 15).
23 May 2006, on 5:37 pm
I have been atheist since I was about 8 years old, I guess. I remember the Sunday school was never very compelling. One day I laughed at some shallow justification for believing and the cat was out of the bag. Several times over the years afterward I was spoon fed intense indoctrination but it only served to solidify my lack of faith. Once I was on my own the whole subject disappeared from my mind. A few years ago I had to get sober and encountered the whole thing again. I had many discussions with god-botherers about their lack of self confidence, needing an outside entity to keep a bottle or pipe out of their mouths because they had been trained to see themselves as helpless to so many things. I never talk about gods now, but I did get “god free” tattooed on my forearm. There are many people who lack faith in 10 foot rabbits who, when they see the tat get some clues as to how to keep their equilibrium until staying sober is a habit. I like to think we are a sleeper cell undermining the reliance on wishful thinking, but we’re likely too few.
Anyway, I have been reading this site for years and have always enjoyed it. Keep up the effort, it is appreciated.
23 May 2006, on 5:56 pm
Wife and I are both atheists and have been out to our close friends in college, and to our families around the time our daughter was born when the uncomfortable needling about various rites and rituals began. Our families have (mostly) been good about it.
On the internet, hey you meet all types, and people aren’t at all shy about wishing you ill. So here on the ‘net I’ve received threats of various kinds, but so far not in the real world. I imagine if I became famous for some reason, that would change.
I have endured rude comments, been told to shut up, and have of course had to put up with the annoying assumption that I am Christian because, you know, everybody is Christian.
23 May 2006, on 6:00 pm
Not “out.”
I’m currently in a sort of, “I know that they know, they know that I know they know,” situation with some family members, but the words “I am an athiest” have not been spoken because other family members have exhibited an emotional fragility when it comes to my faith (or lack therof).
Ironically, as a child I enjoyed more-open-than-average lines of communication with my family. As an adult, I am discovering those lines are not as wide open as I thought.
As far as friends and neighbors: It’s never come up.
23 May 2006, on 6:12 pm
I’m pretty much not out. I think my sister suspects, but doesn’t want me to talk about it - it freaks her out. When talking to friends, I’ll also do the theoretical thing, to a point. I’m just not sure how they’ll react to want to bring it up further.
I’m not out at all at work. A few of the people I work with are fundies, including my boss, who’s a major one (he got mad at our annual holiday party a couple years ago when a co-worker dressed up as Santa and gave small gifts to the kids - he doesn’t believe in that kind of thing - he also home schools, so those kids are going to be messed up good).
23 May 2006, on 6:24 pm
Not only out, but in the way to distroy religion and God, a world woithout religion is what I want. No tolerance for theist. It is now the atheist Crusaders time.
23 May 2006, on 6:50 pm
I went from lukewarm Baptist to rebellious Satanist- until I realized that was even sillier than the original theism. From there to Pagan was a logical move and I still refer to myself as a “Druid” on occasion because of the mystery involved in the old Celts’ practices- and the corresponding freedom to just make it up as I went along. I think I’ve been an atheist since before even the Satan phase. I just didn’t have the experience or the support system to identify my new worldview as what it was. I have to admit that I go out of my way to let everyone know where I stand and I don’t feel bad about it because most of the godsters I’ve encountered were only too willing to preach me a new one and I figure turn about is fair play. That said, I don’t try to convert unless there’s the time and the logistics for lengthy discussion and debate. Mostly, I just laugh out loud at anyone I hear making some inane religious comment- but that also goes for political, racial, gender, or scientific inanities as well. I’m pretty sure that Jeebus never said we had to suffer fools- children but not fools. It also helps, in the case of public ridicule, that I’m 6-4″ and about 250- seems to keep the level of offense from getting fisticuffs high.
23 May 2006, on 6:53 pm
Great stories, folks… And good to hear from “new” voices. Christ Davis said: “Anyway, I have been reading this site for years and have always enjoyed it.” Well heck, feel free to comment some more! Your tattoo sounds awesome.
Amy said:
“I’m also currently wondering what types of discourse might be initiated if I smack the FSM on the back of my car.”
Go for it! Heck, it would be so obscure that the only people likely to chat you up about is would be other atheists.
23 May 2006, on 7:04 pm
*waves* I suppose it’s never come up before, but I’m bisexual. The real kind, too, that actually likes to have sex with other women. Not the fake kind that makes out with other chicks when they’re drunk for attention, or tells men that they are hoping they’ll think it’s “hot.”
Anyway, I guess you could say that I’m partially out on the atheist front. My views and opinions are very well known by my family, and I’ll passionately debate with them for hours on issues of same-sex marriage, separation of church and state, etc. But the words, “I am an atheist” have never left my mouth. Of course, I’ve never been asked, either. I think there is a reason for that, and that is that my family already knows but “the words” would be a mood-killer, so we all have come to a mutual, unspoken agreement not to press the issue.
My friends, however, are fully aware of my atheism, and my boyfriend is an atheist as well.
23 May 2006, on 7:09 pm
I’m out to my friends and some of my family. My grandparents don’t know, because they would just nag me a bunch. I don’t talk about it at work too much. Once I made the mistake of coming out at a summer job and was harrassed until I left for school. Everybody knew about the harrassment and did nothing, because it was “good for me”.
23 May 2006, on 7:10 pm
“I’m also currently wondering what types of discourse might be initiated if I smack the FSM on the back of my car.”
I have a “His Noodleness” sticker on a rear-window, and a Darwin fish on the back bumper. Nobody has even asked about the FSM, but I’m pretty sure the fish has gotten me flipped off a couple times. My guess is that the only people who “get” the FSM are those who think it’s more or less funny.
And since we’re saying: I’ve been completely “out” pretty much since I realized I was an atheist (as opposed to an agnostic) at about 19. My wife is also an out atheist, although there may be moments when she wishes I was a TINY bit less out. And to keep him from getting completely hated, my son has been taught that the name for what we are — people who don’t believe in any gods or magical shit, but think people should be treated with fairness for their own sake — is “Humanist”.
23 May 2006, on 7:39 pm
I am out in three different ways to my family and close friends. I am a female to male transexual, that had a lot do with me leaving church and belief all together. My very christian parents accept both my transition and atheism now, but it was a different story a few years ago. My mom really tried to turn me around on both issues so I stopped all contact for about six months, for my sanity and our relationship. My dad has never been one to push anything except for reading so he was easy. The only time my dad has brought my atheism was to ask “How do you think you are going to get to heaven then?” to which I replied “I don’t believe in heaven.” He has not tried to change my mind.
My mother and I have a good relationship now so I am glad for that. My sister stopped talking to me for a while because of my transition, but we are doing great as well. My friends have been the easiest as most of them are liberal and rational thinkers as well. My neighbors know that I am an atheist, but not transexual which is not their business anyway. I do not hide either aspect of myself, but I do not shout it from the rooftop either. I would be more open with regards to both if I did not live in Mississippi.
The third way I came out was as a bisexual, I have been in a relationship with a man for seven years. I will not use his name but he has been supportive for me in all these things. We met and dated before I transitioned, came out as an atheist, and as bisexual. This was the hardest person to tell because he was a Roman Catholic at the time. He is an agnostic bisexual, I found out the night I told him about myself. Funny how things seem compared to how they are sometimes.
23 May 2006, on 7:42 pm
I’ve tried being “out” to my parents (friends know already) but every time I bring it up my mother replies with “But you were baptized Roman Catholic!” as if that means I’m now forever condemned to carry that label, kind of like the holy water in the baptism mutated my DNA and so I carry the “Catholicism” gene now and forever more. I’ll keep on trying to convince her, though, that some ritual done to me when I was a couple of months old means nothing.
23 May 2006, on 8:02 pm
I really like this site, my first comment:
I live in a town that was once in the Guiness Book of World Records for most churches per capita. You can literally not be further than a block away from a church at all times, and this is a town of 20,000. I went to a private christian school for kindergarden, and really enjoyed it until the subject of dinosaurs was brought up. I went home crying because my teacher told me dinosaurs never existed, and I was a little dino-freak back then.
Throughout my school-life I have went back-and-forth depending on my emotional comfort level, sometimes I would easily say that I was atheistic, other times I would hide behind agnosticism. I had a really diverse group of friends, but the ones that I’m still with after high-school are all athiests or agnostics, coming out of strong Mormon, Episcopalian, or Catholic backgrounds.
My family isn’t comfortable with the term atheist, they self-identify as agnostic. A part of my extended family is Mormon, so we try to stay out of theistic talk as much as possible.
My girlfriend comes from an evangelical/fundamentalist background, so it can be uncomfortable eating dinner with her family. Her father refers to people who don’t go to his church as “pagans”, and her 22-year old brother thinks the Steven Colbert is serious about the religious stuff on the Colbert Report. I do not have the courage to come out in front of them, they would likely try to stop my girlfriend from seeing me. Fortunately, my girlfriend is mostly immune to all that stuff, she’s very rational-minded, and hasn’t tried to convert me. I don’t mind if she stays xian, as she doesn’t actually believe in most of the literal garbage, she sticks to it as an inner-faith thing.
23 May 2006, on 8:32 pm
Wow, P.C., you’re my new hero! You have faced some huge changes in your life with obvious courage. Congratulations.
23 May 2006, on 8:47 pm
Thank you for the comment Sean, but I am not a hero at least to myself anyway, I had to do certain things for my own sanity. My mom once asked “Why are you doing this to me?” I replied “I had no idea that I was still surrounded by your womb.” The courage came after a few years of drinking and trying to be what I never was. Questions are welcomed on my end if any one cares or not.
23 May 2006, on 8:55 pm
Excellent idea, Sean, and many thanks to all commenters (including those who may still be incoming). It’s great to get a taste of the variety of us out there!
23 May 2006, on 9:08 pm
I just want to say congrats, P.C. for achieving peace of mind and comfort in your own skin.
23 May 2006, on 9:30 pm
Alex said:
I went to a private christian school for kindergarden, and really enjoyed it until the subject of dinosaurs was brought up. I went home crying because my teacher told me dinosaurs never existed, and I was a little dino-freak back then.
Jumpin’ Jeehosifat! What a terrible thing to say to a little dino-lovin’ kid!
23 May 2006, on 9:35 pm
PC: I have known a number of transgendered people and, even though it’s something you had to do to feel comfortable in your own skin, I still think it is a courageous act to follow through on. The dangers of even saying one is bisexual or gay in this society are well-known… To change one’s gender is truly brave.
23 May 2006, on 10:05 pm
I am a gay athiest in DFW, Texas.
I am out as both to my family, at work, and to most people when it becomes needed. I am a bit bullheaded and tend to come across as an asshole when people try to bother me with thier god nonsense.
My family is still Christian, but for all I’ve had to deal with as a gay former christian, they understand WHY and leave me be.
23 May 2006, on 11:21 pm
Some friends of mine bought me a wonderful little present: a name badge, like the Mormons have, only with “Atheist” on it. It’s great fun. I’ve been ‘out’ as an atheist since High School, and was even a little notorious — especially when preachers like Ray Comfort came to town. These days, I’m often confronting street-preachers whenever I find them, and if the subject of religion comes up with friends or family, I’ll put my case.
Though it’s still considered “impolite” to challenge peoples’ invocation of religion, I’ve got no time for that sort of nonsense. It’s pretty damn “uncivil” to believe, without evidence, that people like me are intrinsically bad just because we don’t subscribe to their fairy tale, and to believe that we will be, and should be, thrown in hell for all eternity. Compared to that, the supposed rudeness of calling someone on their “faith” at the dinner table pales in comparison.
23 May 2006, on 11:21 pm
In my community being an atheist or agnostic is pretty much the norm. Middle-class Australia rocks. Even people who do call themselves Christian rarely go to church or pray.
23 May 2006, on 11:26 pm
“I never talk about gods now, but I did get “god free” tattooed on my forearm”- Christ Davis
This is no shit weird, man. About a dozen years ago, I drew up a stylized “God Free” tattoo and had a friend ink it on my left shoulder. When it came time to stencil the design, the original proved too short to complete the armband I’d envisioned and we were too, um, altered to go to Kinkos and enlarge it. Anyway, in our mutual fog- and with the Melvins blasting from the stereo, neither Casey or I noticed the little error of our ways. Long story short, my “God Free” tattoo actually says “Dog Free”. Ah well, there’s always the dyslexics.
24 May 2006, on 12:06 am
Dios Mio!!!
Godless Heathen?!?!? In the closet?!?!?!
And how?!?!
Let me be frank.
WHO GIVES A SHIT?
Really?
Hands? Hands anyone?
Because I don’t.
Why. Why does anyone give a fuck who or what I believe in?
God-dammit. I miss you fuckers.
Yet, you fuckers still don’t get it.
Let It Be.
24 May 2006, on 12:11 am
Hey, gay atheist here in Philly, 21 year old college student. I’ve usually identified as an agnostic but the more I think about it, the more I lean towards atheism. I am out as a gay man to my immediate family, my friends, some co-workers and I suppose anyone who reads my myspace profile.
As for being an atheist, I have not formally announced to my family that I do not believe in a god or gods, but my brother does know that this is how I feel. And my parents probably suspect that as well. I have not been to church with them in about 2 years. They belong to a Presbyterian church. My friends know, they are fine with it. And at this point, if anyone asks me about my beliefs I’ll gladly tell them.
24 May 2006, on 12:16 am
I guess I’m out, but living in the Los Angeles metropolitan area it really isn’t an issue. My parents know and kind of tiptoe around it. I don’t hide it from friends or coworkers, but don’t shove it down their throats either, hoping they’ll continue to keep their beliefs from me. My wife pretty much is, although she doesn’t really care enough about the whole issue to label herself as one. Parents or in-laws will occasionally pretend like we’re not, such as when our son was born and they asked if we were going to baptize him. “No,” I told them, “those are not OUR beliefs.”
24 May 2006, on 12:28 am
There is some serious fucking testimonies flowing throughout these plain.
Initially, I responded on my own accord. I didn’t read through the various responses.
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury…..Are we really that superficial that we are going to judge another person by their beliefs?!?!
Will you riddle me this?!??
Will you riddle me why we have to shout out our beliefs to people?!?!?!?
Let’s just live. Live our lives. Till the Fucking End.
24 May 2006, on 12:34 am
Fuck. Fuck. I am extremely OCD. You would have thought that I would have had my spelling down. But…..—apparently not.
Ladies and Germs of the Jury.
Live your live. And life it good.
24 May 2006, on 1:13 am
Dena! Where the fuck have you been? We haven’t had any nice theists around here for a while.
You sound a bit drunk.
Give these people a break. Try walking a mile in their shoes. You say:
Will you riddle me why we have to shout out our beliefs to people?
We don’t. We just reject when everyone tries to shove theirs down our throats. Come on. After all the time you have spent here, you should know that by now.
Yet, you fuckers still don’t get it.
Yes we do, dear.
24 May 2006, on 1:16 am
Who is the belligerent lady, and why does she use so many line breaks?
24 May 2006, on 1:17 am
Mitch Says:
May 23rd, 2006 at 11:21 pm e
In my community being an atheist or agnostic is pretty much the norm. Middle-class Australia rocks. Even people who do call themselves Christian rarely go to church or pray.
Fuck, man. Got a spare room?
raindogzilla Says:
May 23rd, 2006 at 11:26 pm e
“I never talk about gods now, but I did get “god free” tattooed on my forearm”- Christ Davis
Long story short, my “God Free” tattoo actually says “Dog Free”. Ah well, there’s always the dyslexics.
Ha! But so perfect on the arm of the Rain Dog.
24 May 2006, on 1:31 am
Julie: Dena goes way back on this blog. She was at one time our favorite Xian (even though sometimes she got drunk, like now, and shouted at us). She also often said she wasn’t an Xian. We aren’t quite sure what she is to this day. She doesn’t seem to like labels.
If Google and other engines indexed goldarned blog comments, you’d be able to search and see how much she used to post here.
She’s a good kid. Just a bit on the young and whackadoo side at this phase in her life. But with lotsa promise that she will grow up and be a constructive member of society in good-standing.
Right, Dena M.?
24 May 2006, on 1:37 am
And she’s cool because her last post was at:
Dena M. May Says:
May 24th, 2006 at 12:34 am
1234!!!
24 May 2006, on 2:17 am
I don’t know what my parents know/think of my opinions on religious matters. About the only time it gets mentioned is… in Australia we have scripture classes in our public schools and I had to repeatedly ask where I was suposed to go and what in the world is all this stuff (the answer was Protestant, which is code for ‘not Catholic’, well, I enjoyed the stories).
Neither my siblings nor anyone else I associate with has any regard for christianity or any other organised religion. Alas, they seem to believe everything else. Very disappointing with everyone (mother, two sisters, sister’s boyfriend) standing around the kitchen talking about ghosts they have seen around the house.
“Have you seen any [Aesmael]?”
“No. Not ever.”
At least I think they get the idea I don’t believe that stuff any more than they do the words of Mohammed (PBUH) and the elder of my sisters has admitted she suspects that deep down it is just for comfort.
As for the other thing… I don’t seem to have any set gender identity. Perhaps its just a phase I will grow out of (One that can be traced back to puberty? Well, maybe. I’m still young after all) but I don’t know from day to day whether my self-image will be aligned with the body I inhabit. Almost certainly bisexual too. I have partly come out to my immediate family but I don’t mean to tell them anything further until I am more sure of myself.
“Coming out” in the nonbeliever sense is nonsensical to me personally because I have never experienced social pressure to believe. Typing the immediately preceding paragraph, on the other hand, definately gave me an elevated heartrate.
24 May 2006, on 2:46 am
As for the other thing… I don’t seem to have any set gender identity. Perhaps its just a phase I will grow out of (One that can be traced back to puberty? Well, maybe. I’m still young after all) but I don’t know from day to day whether my self-image will be aligned with the body I inhabit. Almost certainly bisexual too. I have partly come out to my immediate family but I don’t mean to tell them anything further until I am more sure of myself.
“Coming out” in the nonbeliever sense is nonsensical to me personally because I have never experienced social pressure to believe. Typing the immediately preceding paragraph, on the other hand, definitely gave me an elevated heartrate.
Hehe, Aesmael… If we were in a bullshit, gawd-fearing, AA meeting, I would say “thanks for sharing.”
I don’t think there is a whole lot of difference in coming out for what you believe, what you feel, or what you desire. What it comes down to is the fear of being on your own in such a situation. I know I am not alone in saying thank you, folks, for this beautiful thread… And assuring us all that no matter what, as humanists we have a growing global community, no matter what the fundies would like to believe. Let’s never stop reaching out for each other in that regard.
That’s my kumbaya moment, without the Gawd. And in that spirit, if anyone ever needs a place to crash in San Francisco for a few days, never hesitate to drop me a line.
Keep the stories coming.
24 May 2006, on 3:45 am
Julie said:
“I just want to say congrats, P.C. for achieving peace of mind and comfort in your own skin.”
Thank you Julie it took a while to get to where I am at, but I have a little farther to go.
Sean said:
” even though it’s something you had to do to feel comfortable in your own skin, I still think it is a courageous act to follow through on.”
Again thank you Sean, but I still can’t see it as courageous. I only see it as saving the little sanity I had left. To me the courageous ones are the male to female trans because they are going to secondary citizenship status, they are (with exceptions) easier to spot, and are more likely to encounter violence even death for their appearence.
Aesmael said:
“As for the other thing… I don’t seem to have any set gender identity. Perhaps its just a phase I will grow out of (One that can be traced back to puberty? Well, maybe. I’m still young after all) but I don’t know from day to day whether my self-image will be aligned with the body I inhabit.”
Aesmael I can give advice and blah, blah, blah but the only thing I will tell you to do is be yourself. You have to sleep with yourself and see yourself in the mirror do everything in your power to like the one staring back.
24 May 2006, on 5:03 am
I have just discovered this site, I must say it’s certainly a breath of fresh gin. I am out to everyone that is a part of my life, my life partner, his family (they despise me for it) and most anyone that asks “have you accepted christ into your heart”. I have been an atheist since I was a 4 year old forced to pray under a tacky image of jESUS and his sheep. My mother always said she beleived, but I think it was a “just in case” plea. I want to say thank you for this haven, it’s very refreshing to hear others that don’t believe what I don’t believe.
Patrick
24 May 2006, on 5:48 am
Pitiful stories.
Well, I think, the best thing you do is not calling atheists to come out through internet; it’s very limited. May I suggest that you choose a location in the world (maybe in the NOrth Pole) to gather together and build a godless community. There you can create and organize your own government, express freely your bisexuality, homosexuality, and sexual perversions without any tension from the “fundies”. Let’s see how pure atheists live together by their own!!!Hehehe..just a suggestion.
24 May 2006, on 6:47 am
I am definetly out both as an atheist but also as a bisexual transsexual MTF.
and hell I live in the Omaha Ne metro area.
I have had more people here hassle me over the darwin emblem on my laptop then over the gay pride stipe on my laptop.
To all of the lgbt atheist here I am proud too be among your ranks.
24 May 2006, on 7:01 am
“Who is the belligerent lady, and why does she use so many line breaks? ”
I second Julie’s query.
Who’s withholding Dena’s meds? Sean asks for these stories and we get some drunked bullshit about juding people? Can someone explain wtf the point of that rambling was?
~~~
I am not an out atheist. My bf knows, one of my brothers knows, and some of my friends. My parents do not. And won’t as I see no need to tell them. They’re not religious people, though they do believe. As religion isn’t very important to their lives I see no reason to tell them it holds no importance in mine.
Also there is the fact I rely on the public to buy my work. Buffalo is a densely Catholic area. I run the risk of ruining my livelihood if I’m out. ANd vandalism and violence from the ones really full of god’s love.
Lastly, I’m not “out” because I see no reason to be. I don’t like it when theists were their faith on their sleeve so I’d b a hypocrite to wear my atheism on mine.
However, this doesn’t mean I deny it either. If someone asks me if I believe I tell them I don’t.
So i guess I’m not “out” until you ask me.
24 May 2006, on 7:25 am
P.C.,Aesmael
I dont know how to say this with out sounding weird well nervoous but I would like to stay in contact with both of you feel free to email me at udonman@gmail.com only if you want to.
either that or drop a line at
http://www.udonman.blogspot.com or http://farmgirlscrossplayblog.blogspot.com/
24 May 2006, on 7:55 am
rolie sez: “May I suggest that you choose a location in the world (maybe in the NOrth Pole) to gather together and build a godless community. There you can create and organize your own government, express freely your bisexuality, homosexuality, and sexual perversions without any tension from the “fundies”. Let’s see how pure atheists live together by their own!!!
Did that. It’s called “Sweden”. Low crime, great health care, high standard of living. Go figure.
24 May 2006, on 8:07 am
Patrick said:
I want to say thank you for this haven, it’s very refreshing to hear others that don’t believe what I don’t believe.
Welcome, Patrick!
olie acot Says:
May 24th, 2006 at 5:48 am e
Pitiful stories.
Well, I think, the best thing you do is not calling atheists to come out through internet; it’s very limited. May I suggest that you choose a location in the world (maybe in the NOrth Pole) to gather together and build a godless community.
Theists and atheists alike, take note. Read this entire thread, filled with the heartwarming testimonials of good people who just don’t believe in the self-deluded fairy tale gods of human mythology. And then read that crapload of hatred Roli just shat all over this board with a single paragraph. We hear a lot about how people with religion have moral superiority over those without. Be your own judge.
24 May 2006, on 8:13 am
Rolie believes that a ouija works - and by works I mean, she believes demons speak to her through a ouija board. She’s clearly not someone who’s opinion matters, or even makes sense.
24 May 2006, on 8:14 am
“No tolerance for theist. It is now the atheist Crusaders time. ”
Someone’s lying about being an atheist. This is a theist thing to say.
24 May 2006, on 8:17 am
I was a Christian up into my mid-20s, but struggled with religion. It was a hard fight. I attended a Church of England church with a congregation of fairly liberal and loving people. And yet the pressure of being a Christian, of coping with the irrationality of scripture and doctrine, of lapsing, of being unable to have a relationship with an increasingly abstract deity, all became too much.
I have to thank A.N. Wilson for getting me out of the church. His biography of Jesus was the key to my salvation. Once Christ was set within his historical context and much of the scripture surrounding him debunked, I was set free. Rationality did the rest. It was an enormous relief, as if the cares of the world were lifted from my shoulders. I have since had to carve my own path and set my own moral compass.
This has been a harder task than I could have imagined, as the responsibility of living a moral life is so much more difficult when you don’t have a sky-father as a backup, as a safety net. When you have to rely on real people to forgive your errors, not some ridiculous cosmic deity, the realization hits like a slap in the face that you must take responsibility for your actions. I can’t sin six days a week and earn a get-out-of-jail-free card on Sunday, as I’ve seen so many lazy Christians do. (And there are many MANY lazy Christians.) I have to live a moral life 24/7. It’s a tougher life as an atheist, but an infinitely more rewarding one.
As for being ‘out’ I don’t think that’s an issue here in England. Religion has historically been a middle-class thing, and more country than town. Where it filters down to the working classes it tends to take on aspects of a street religion. If you looked at the dioscese of Southwark a hundred years ago you’d see a working class Christianity that resembled voodoo more than a modern ministry. Modern spirituality, infected by new age nonsense, is much the same. On the whole, atheism is far more respectable over this side of the atlantic. And if anything it’s the more vociferous god-botherers who are looked at askance. The English prefer people to keep their faith quiet.
Which is not to say the Christians are not politically powerful or dangerous. The Alpha course is a worrying trend, picking up a conservative following more in tune with US-style protestant fundamentalism. But there is also much to English religion that is wet and ineffectual, making it relatively harmless. It is easy to be an atheist in a city like London. Throw a rock into a crowd and you’ll hit dozens of us.
24 May 2006, on 8:33 am
I have to thank A.N. Wilson for getting me out of the church. His biography of Jesus was the key to my salvation. Once Christ was set within his historical context and much of the scripture surrounding him debunked, I was set free. Rationality did the rest. It was an enormous relief, as if the cares of the world were lifted from my shoulders. I have since had to carve my own path and set my own moral compass.
percyprune: I really enjoyed Jesus: A Life, too. Wilson notes at the outset that any attempt to place Jesus, whose existence itself is possibly permanently up for grabs, in a historical context is pure speculation. However, he went a long way to try and explain what some of the cultural significance of the various legends would have meant at the time. Good read indeed.
24 May 2006, on 8:37 am
percyprune also said:
I can’t sin six days a week and earn a get-out-of-jail-free card on Sunday, as I’ve seen so many lazy Christians do. (And there are many MANY lazy Christians.) I have to live a moral life 24/7. It’s a tougher life as an atheist, but an infinitely more rewarding one.
I know the regulars have seen me link to this a gazillion times, but I just love it. For those who have not heard this, please go give it a listen. You’ll get some reassurance that finding your own moral compass is a good way to go:
There is No God
by Penn Jillette
24 May 2006, on 9:33 am
rolie acot Says:
Pitiful stories.
Well, I think, the best thing you do is not calling atheists to come out through internet; it’s very limited. May I suggest that you choose a location in the world (maybe in the NOrth Pole) to gather together and build a godless community. There you can create and organize your own government, express freely your bisexuality, homosexuality, and sexual perversions without any tension from the “fundies”. Let’s see how pure atheists live together by their own!!!Hehehe..just a suggestion.
Hi rolie! You seem to have misinterpretted the point of this thread which was not calling atheists to “come out” through the internet. It was requesting that atheists indicate whether or not they are out in the real world and what that has been like for them. Personally I found the stories interesting, some heartwarming, and of course there were some I couldn’t relate to because I don’t have a common frame of reference.
No matter. But it’s certainly very nice of you to show up and give us an example of theist love and tolerance by suggesting we all move somewhere far away from you. I’d suggest the same for the fundies if I was as much a vile little hateful prick as you are, but since I’m not I’ll just have to continue hoping that you’ll recognize that warm wet substance pressing on your head as the lining of your colon and then make up your own mind to pull… really hard. Yea and verily, brother, remove thine head from thine anus… come into the light. Hehehe… just a suggestion.
24 May 2006, on 9:52 am
I’d suggest the same for the fundies if I was as much a vile little hateful prick as you are, but since I’m not I’ll just have to continue hoping that you’ll recognize that warm wet substance pressing on your head as the lining of your colon and then make up your own mind to pull… really hard.
Ha! The problem is, I think Rolie’s head might be up Sable Chicken’s ass. So those two chicken ladies will have to peck each other free.
24 May 2006, on 10:10 am
I’ve been “out” since I was in Jr. high School. My immediate family knows, my friends know, my boss–who is also atheist–knows. My Mom, her older brother and my younger sister are atheist. I’m not close with other extended family members who don’t think atheists should be treated as “normal” people. I don’t say anything to them as it would be a waste of time and energy. My father had a saying that I suspect is an immutable law of the universe: “You cannot tell a dumbshit he’s a dumbshit.” So I don’t even try.
The thing is, despite the fact I live in the bible belt, it’s not a BFD and the subject doesn’t come up all that much. The only people who seem to care are the Jehovah’s witnesses and the Mormons who get ticked off when I send them packing. I do recall getting lectured about fire and brimstone when I was in 7th grade by a classmate. It was uncomfortable for a bit, but then I realized it was actually rather amusing. I still think that way.
24 May 2006, on 10:21 am
Pitiful stories.
Well, I think, the best thing you do is not calling atheists to come out through internet; it’s very limited. May I suggest that you choose a location in the world (maybe in the NOrth Pole) to gather together and build a godless community. There you can create and organize your own government, express freely your bisexuality, homosexuality, and sexual perversions without any tension from the “fundies”. Let’s see how pure atheists live together by their own!!!Hehehe..just a suggestion.
‘Friend’, your pity is not worth the electrons carrying it. What do I have to feel bad about or be pitied for? Or anyone else posting here for that matter? I’m mostly happy in myself (if occasionally frustrated). I have already tried to explain that ‘coming out’ as an atheist is a nonissue for me because it carries no stigma in my culture. Do you want to know something really shocking? I actually heard our P.M. drop the g-word the other day. That’s odd here, when a politician mentions god. Of course it wasn’t in a religious sense as in ‘God Bless Australia’ or some such rot, just the colloquial use “God bless them” (speaking of Irish MPs boycotting his speech in their parliament) and while I am sure he really is a believer it is generally a private thing here. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to use this language without using the religious terminology infesting it? I do because I have been systematically avoiding it where possible since my preteens (out of respect, see, for other people, because they weren’t my beliefs and it would be rude of me to ‘blaspheme’ using their words). In fact this comment thread is one of only two occasions I remember making my lack of belief explicit, because I was asked to. The only other time I was on my way home and a christian tried to evangelise me.
I cerrtainly did not expect condemnation from the people running this blog, yet I was still nervous about postiing what I did and still felt it prudent to strip my url from the post. Why was that? Because this name is my identity online. I carry it with me every where I go, even though I could change it as often as I like and be a virtual ghost. There is a price for that. See, unless I beg the admins here to edit it, what I said is forever linked with my name now, should anyone choose to look it up. Which wouldn’t matter except there are small-minded hateful people who may take it as an excuse to harrass me; irritating gnats at best, life-threatening at worst. And I certainly don’t want anyone reading that and following the link back to my blog to be annoying at me. Certainly if my family were devoutly religious rather than the easygoing (mostly) great people they are I could well have been dumped on the streets for what I have already told them. But I knew I did not have to worry about that - the worst I had to worry about was ‘What?’ and ‘Why?’ and my mother’s already existent insistence I look the part of my biological sex. I think most people posting here, P.C. and udonman not least among you, have had to be far braver than I have. I never had to worry (consciously!) about angry confrontations with those I love.
As for that quaint suggestion nonbelievers go form their own country… I imagine rolie acot is from the U.S.A. What do you propose to do without your scientists? I suppose you could keep most of your infrastructure running for a while but you would never discover anything new. Just stagnate. Stop where you are while the rest of the world moves on past you. What are you going to do when your population just keeps on rising? How are you going to fight the new diseases which will inevitably arise? How will you power your computers and televisions and radios and microwaves and ovens and everything else? On what will your cars run?
You seem to think an irreligious nation would be an utter disaster, nevermind that national religiosity seems to be inversely correlated with quality of life. Do you think, perhaps, that atheists are nothing but sexual deviants whose proclivities leave them incapable of reproduction the conventional way? Even if so (which it is not) that is not or soon will not be a significant barrier to producing children.
Face it. The Religious needs the Secular. We do not need you.
24 May 2006, on 10:25 am
“Pitiful stories.”
Hardly. I find them inspiring. But your love and compassion shines through. What would Jesus do, eh? Oddly enough, he’d probably hang out with us lot just as he did the other outcasts of society. He had little time for holy rollers, did Christ. Indeed, he had a few sharp words for those souls, so puffed up with rectitude that they thought they’d already bought their ticket to the afterlife.
“Well, I think, the best thing you do is not calling atheists to come out through internet; it’s very limited. May I suggest that you choose a location in the world (maybe in the NOrth Pole) to gather together and build a godless community. There you can create and organize your own government, express freely your bisexuality, homosexuality, and sexual perversions without any tension from the “fundies”. Let’s see how pure atheists live together by their own!!!Hehehe..just a suggestion.”
How about we don’t? How about we stay in our communities amongst people we love (and some that we don’t) and show people how atheists live moral lives, free from the distortions of superstition and cant. Free from guilt over petty dogma. Free from the lies of priests who would damn us to hell for living the way we want, not the way the godly and other malignants tell us to.
24 May 2006, on 10:32 am
“I can’t sin six days a week and earn a get-out-of-jail-free card on Sunday, as I’ve seen so many lazy Christians do. (And there are many MANY lazy Christians.) I have to live a moral life 24/7. It’s a tougher life as an atheist, but an infinitely more rewarding one.”
PREZACTLY. That’s what we try to impress upon every theist who comes here claiming that we have no morals and no reason to care about other humans. The sum and total of their “morality” is ask for forgiveness and you’ll go you heaven. (of course one group or another would argue with that). Meaning, murderers, rapists, theieves - all go to heaven if they ask for forgiveness. But me, I’ll got to hell because I didn’t believe. Doesn’t matter if I’ve done good. Garbage.
It’s easy to do as you please all week long and then pay lip service to an imaginary god to feel all nice and fuzzy about yourself afterwards. It’s harder to live properly all the time and for no reward (i.e. heaven) other than personal satisfaction. Which is decidedly not enough for most people.
24 May 2006, on 10:52 am
“It’s easy to do as you please all week long and then pay lip service to an imaginary god to feel all nice and fuzzy about yourself afterwards. It’s harder to live properly all the time and for no reward (i.e. heaven) other than personal satisfaction. Which is decidedly not enough for most people.”
To be fair, Lya, there are many kinds of Christianity. Some Christers emphasise good works and there are many positive sides to their actions. We can judge them by their deeds. What I find really unnerving is that brand of Protestantism, rife in the US but also elsewhere, that emphasies personal faith. Works matter less than faith, which leads some (I’d say many) into the error of permitting lapses of morality on the basis that it will be forgiven the next time they kneel down and pray.
Jack T. Chick is the acme of this ‘Me Generation’ thinking (though I suspect he’d have a paddy if he knew he was accused of this). In his tracts many souls are saved at the last minute–moments before expiration–by the deathbed confession. How many Christians internalize this? I know I did, back when I was a Christer, trying to seek a way to game the system and sneak my way into heaven.
If all it takes is faith, why bother with good works? Why bother being moral when all sin can be forgiven in a millisecond of solemn piety? Why not party on down and cheat and lie and kill when all it takes is a fearful moment on the deathbed to make your peace and all will be right with your maker?
Of course, the Catholics figured all this out a long time ago. No wonder they invented Purgatory as a means to discourage those who game the system. They were onto something there, until that holiest of rollers Martin Luther went and ruined it.
24 May 2006, on 10:59 am
“To be fair, Lya, there are many kinds of Christianity.”
I was responding to your post. I also noted that this would be disputed. If I suggested all would agree or all do the same, it was unintentional.
“What I find really unnerving is that brand of Protestantism, rife in the US but also elsewhere, that emphasies personal faith. Works matter less than faith, which leads some (I’d say many) into the error of permitting lapses of morality on the basis that it will be forgiven the next time they kneel down and pray.”
And these are those I’m speaking of. It appears most do exactly that. Even if they are good people by and large - meaning they don’t steal, maim or murder, but just “lightly” sin, like lie, gossip or skip church - they still are “all forgiven” once they ask. How on earth is this morality? Its a self-serving ‘get out of jail free’ card.
“If all it takes is faith, why bother with good works?”
The Bible itself can’t decide which gets one to heaven.
24 May 2006, on 11:11 am
“I was responding to your post.”
Sorry, I was doing the rhetorical thang.
“And these are those I’m speaking of. It appears most do exactly that. Even if they are good people by and large - meaning they don’t steal, maim or murder, but just “lightly” sin, like lie, gossip or skip church - they still are “all forgiven” once they ask. How on earth is this morality? Its a self-serving ‘get out of jail free’ card.”
It’s a license to sin, is what it is.
“The Bible itself can’t decide which gets one to heaven.”
Jesus hinted darkly that it was unlikely to be anyone rich. Though oddly, rich Christers tend to ignore that bit.
24 May 2006, on 12:37 pm
Well, technically I’m not an aetheist, although I do not worship, nor believe in deities. Actually, I call myself a pagan which encompasses more of what I do believe. I don’t do the pagan gods thing, because I don’t believe in gods, but I do believe in the power of nature, in celebrating the cycles of nature and in caring for nature as a precious resource.
I am a farmer. Of course, not all farmers are pagans, but I say this because it fits with the way I choose to define myself. We run organic crops and livestock; we choose to mark the cycle of the seasons with appropriate pagan celebrations. We have a hell of a lot of celebrating of fertility around here.
Although, we only have the one kid (by choice). I don’t necessarily think that celebrating is going to have any effect on our crops, but if you had just worked your ass off getting a planting in, or taking a harvest off, or finding out that after all those nights of vigilantly staving off the frost from your berries that you have successfully saved your crop, then you’d know why the celebrations are so special to me.
Anyway, I’m certainly NOT out in my community which is comprised mainly of staunch Catholics. Absolutely every single event revolves around the church here, so no. I can’t really afford to be out, nor do I have any desire to repeatedly try to explain myself to people. If people ask me, I will tell them I was raised Methodist (which is true). It throws them off a bit because there aren’t really Methodists in Canada (there are some, but most protestants are United Church), so no one really asks further than that. Mostly, I like to be left alone — a favour I endeavor to return to others.
24 May 2006, on 12:52 pm
“but I do believe in the power of nature, in celebrating the cycles of nature and in caring for nature as a precious resource. ”
Well hell. by that definition I’m a Pagan too.
24 May 2006, on 1:01 pm
‘Fore I moved down here to bayou land, I lived in Portland, OR and readily admitted to my complete lack of faith in the sky daddy and similar ilk. My xtian friends looked at it as more of a source of good debate material than a challenge to their existence.
However, now that I live down here in Baton Rouge, I’m more reluctant to tell others. The vast majority of my coworkers profess to rather fundy belief systems. Of course, I keep my politics to myself as well. The folks that I’ve come to know well are aware of my lack of interest in jeebus and his family, but I’m not shouting it to the rooftops either.
Wait a sec… that’s pretty much how I was back in PDX as well! OMFSM! Maybe rolie, the fundy asshat up above, isn’t aware that most folks don’t want the beliefs of others pushed on them without their consent. Whether those beliefs are xtinsanity or athieism. I follow the rule that there are three things that you don’t discuss with complete strangers and people that you work with: sex, politics and religion.
24 May 2006, on 1:04 pm
“Well hell. by that definition I’m a Pagan too. ”
See, that’s the thing… I don’t feel like I can label myself with any great accuracy. If you’ve seen my blog you also know that I call myself a Marxist, too. Maybe I don’t know what the hell [label] I am. Just me, I suppose. I do know what I believe [and don't believe] though that takes much longer to explain.
24 May 2006, on 1:10 pm
“Face it. The Religious needs the Secular. We do not need you.”
Aesmael, loved it. That’s right, what would they do without scientists, artists, writers, and many of the smartest people who don’t believe in their god?
Personally, I’ve only come out to new aquaintances. My friends and family, with the exception of one cousin, don’t know. Many of them suspect, but either don’t want to know or aren’t sure. I’ve really only come to decide my atheism in the past few years. I’ve never been real religious anyway, but I never thought about what I was. I went to a christian school until high school and hated every minute of it. As soon as I wasn’t “made” to go to church I stopped and haven’t gone back.
I’ve heard about other atheist being harassed and even threatened, and it just amazes me. It’s a shame you even have to worry about putting your info on a web site for fear of threats. Why do they care so much? Why does it bother them what other people do, think and believe?
That’s why this, and other, sites are so great. I know I’m not the only one who doesn’t believe and finds them insane.
24 May 2006, on 1:11 pm
“I don’t feel like I can label myself with any great accuracy. ”
I wasn’t being sarcastic, but rather, supportive. Pagan may not be the best word, but your defintion is the best position (imo)
24 May 2006, on 1:27 pm
“I wasn’t being sarcastic, but rather, supportive. ”
Okay. I wasn’t sure. Just trying to clarify as best I can.
24 May 2006, on 2:00 pm
Aesmael: beautiful rant. “God bless” you Aussies.
24 May 2006, on 2:40 pm
See, that’s the thing… I don’t feel like I can label myself with any great accuracy.
I HATE labels. I find myself having to label myself in this label oriented society. My husband cracks me up. He just says he is a human being. LOL! Even under the race sections of forms where it asks ethnicity he checks “other” and writes “Human being” or “American”. My daughter checks off ALL races and gets them confused. For a few years they had her listed at her college as “multi-lingual.” (She only speaks English and beginner German.) It’s fun playing with people with these questions about race and religion…if they ask you…turn it around and ask them! Their reaction is quite funny.
After coming out as an atheist more than 10 years ago, it’s easy to just say it now. If anyone asks me about my religion I simply say, “I no longer believe in the existence of gawd, gawds or gawdesses or any of that bunk.” (Sort of Dorothy Parker-ish) I say it firmly and look them square in the eyes. Most people say “oh” and simply change the subject. Living in the Chicago area, it’s easier to be an out-atheist than down in Kentucky where my husband’s brother lives or in North Carolina where my Baptist relatives live.
Oh…and just to let everyone know…remember the problem I was having with relatives sending religious forwards to me about “gawd and jeebus loves you”? I send an atheist message in response and several people have stopped sending me the religious crap! Sending atheist return messages works!
24 May 2006, on 3:21 pm
“rolie acot says”
Speaking of deluded lunatics, check this out:
http://www.angelfire.com/crazy/spaceman/inaugural.html
(this was in the spam queue)
24 May 2006, on 5:07 pm
My husband and I are both atheists but we aren’t really ‘out’. My own family isn’t overly religious and we don’t discuss it. My husband’s mother and sister are hard core evangelical fundies. We avoid the topic of religion as best we can with them just to keep peace in the family. His mother knows on some level my husband’s an atheist buddhist, but she refuses to believe it preferring to think he’ll “come ’round some day”.
We both lost faith in xianity for pretty much same reasons, back in our teens: we came to realize it’s an irrational, illogical belief system. And a religion can’t be good if it tells you that you must shut off your intellect. The final straw for me as a young teen was talking to a woman at the church about the 6 days of creation in genesis. By this time, being a curious kid, I had read a lot about dinasaurs, astronomy, etc, and I said well surely, the Bible couldn’t have meant a literal 24 hour day. A day to god might be a million years. oh no, she said, the bible says it’s a day, and so it’s a 24 hour day. That was so ridiculous, I never attempted to reconcile myself to the religion any more. I’m just a science loving nerd, as is my husband.
And to all the Aussies on the list =Greetings! If a theocracy comes to pass in the US, I might come over. I have distant cousins in the land of Oz. My great grandfather, LA Whereat, used to visit cousins in Oz on occasion. I understand there was a Whereat involved in the creation of the state of Australia. And there aren’t many Whereats in the world so I am guessing we’re all cousins….
24 May 2006, on 6:57 pm
MilukFrog: If you have relatives over here, you are probably also related very distantly to a hell of a lot of convicts!
Reading all these stories makes me so glad to live in Australia. Though I have seen a resurgence in evalgelical movements into megachurches like hillsong lately, and also the family first party(v. evangelical ‘family values’) won a few seats in the last few elections. But compared to the states….
I have evangelical friends, who I actually get along with really well, even though I am an atheist (tho here, that word really doesn’t have so much of an impact, as previous aussies on this thread have stated). They actually are the sort of christians who try to live their lives as well as possible, which is fine with me cause they have not tried to even get me to come to church in years - they just accept me, and I accept them.
All freethinkers on this site: If the US finally devolves into ChristianLand, I have 2 spare rooms upstairs!
24 May 2006, on 7:50 pm
teakel said:
All freethinkers on this site: If the US finally devolves into ChristianLand, I have 2 spare rooms upstairs!
Ha. Very kind of you, Teakel. Times that I feel like running from JeebusLand, I think of the fact that we are here, we are citizens, this is our country and we damn well are the only ones who are going to stop it from becoming a theocracy. So I am sticking around for a while.
24 May 2006, on 8:06 pm
When I was a kid and going to church wasn’t negotiable, I always used to wonder why the preacher spent 5 minutes at the end of every sermon asking if anyone needed to come down and be saved, when every person who was there was always there, and had presumably come down to be saved a while back.
I think this thread helps me understand. Atheists could be lurking anywhere.
Seriously. Why do they do that? That was the impertinent sort of question I asked my parents and got unsatisfying answers like “well, sometimes people need to get right with god.”
24 May 2006, on 8:22 pm
I always used to wonder why the preacher spent 5 minutes at the end of every sermon asking if anyone needed to come down and be saved, when every person who was there was always there, and had presumably come down to be saved a while back.
That’s one of the things I brought up to my Baptist sister recently. The same people go to church, hear the same message about Jeebus dying for you week after week, and the same invitation to be “saved” at the end. In the Lutheran church that I grew up it was the same thing…same people going to church week after week and the same sermons about how very bad everyone is and I often thought why do people have to hear this over and over again if they are already believers?
24 May 2006, on 8:53 pm
“…I often thought why do people have to hear this over and over again if they are already believers?”- stardust1954
That’s always bugged me, too. Is their reading comprehension subnormal? Does fundamentalism give one some sort of selective Alzheimer’s where what you learned last week- BAM- in one ear and out the other. Most of my family are godsters, church t