Westboro Baptist Church vs. The United States Congress
25 May 2006 by King Retard
Wow. The 150-member strong Westboro Baptist Church has gotten exactly what they want: national exposure in the form of congressional legislation. Congress has passed a measure barring protests at national cemetaries, titled the “Respect for America’s Fallen Heroes Act.” According to the bill, protests would be forbidden “within 300 feet of the entrance of a cemetery and within 150 feet of a road into the cemetery from 60 minutes before to 60 minutes after a funeral. Those violating the act would face up to a $100,000 fine and up to a year in prison.”
Fred Phelps, loving minister, responded that Congress was “blatantly violating the First Amendment.” Chances are, he’ll have the opportunity to argue this in court. The thing is, he’ll have a legitimate case. In addition to the federal bill, “more than a dozen states are considering similar laws to restrict protests at nonfederal cemeteries. The American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit against a new Kentucky law, saying it goes too far in limiting freedom of speech and expression.”
Here’s the part that bugs me about this whole thing. Congress isn’t arguing with Phelps’ or his group’s message, they’re only arguing with his method in getting it out there. After all, this is the same congress considering amending the Constitution to bar same-sex marriages. It seems a lot of members of Congress agree with the WBC, they just disagree on how to get the message out. The scariest part: Phelps is fighting for free speech, even if it is the most hateful kind, while Congress is acting to curtail even more liberties.
25 May 2006, on 2:11 pm
The part that ticks me off is the fact that these Christian scumbags have been doing this stuff for YEARS at the funerals of gay people, but pull the same shit at some soldier’s funeral and all of a sudden everybody’s scandalized.
25 May 2006, on 2:19 pm
I second Tom. That is the most galling aspect of it. No legislation was proposed on state or federal level when this hateful practice by Westboro was solely at gay peoples funerals.
25 May 2006, on 2:26 pm
Instead of this act, Congress should have passed the Freedom To Kick Fred Phelp’s Ass at Anytime by Anyone Act.
25 May 2006, on 2:32 pm
Instead of this act, Congress should have passed the Freedom To Kick Fred Phelp’s Ass at Anytime by Anyone Act.
I’m just waiting for the day when someone does kick his ass…Act or no Act!
25 May 2006, on 2:59 pm
Imagine what a martyr he would be then!
25 May 2006, on 3:03 pm
I am no First amendment scholar, but does it protect hate speech? They’re out there bashing gays, is that protected?
25 May 2006, on 3:05 pm
I am no First amendment scholar, but does it protect hate speech? They’re out there bashing gays, is that protected?
Good question Lya. Does this fall under the category of “hate crime”?
25 May 2006, on 3:11 pm
As I have no life…
It won’t be long till somebody seriously does try to kick his ass.
.
25 May 2006, on 3:11 pm
Whoa, hang on here. Are you guys and gals seriously saying that its a good idea for Congress to pass “hate speech” legislation? Because, you know, a lot of people would consider the sort of things discussed on GifS to be hate speech…
25 May 2006, on 3:18 pm
“Are you guys and gals seriously saying that its a good idea for Congress to pass “hate speech” legislation? Because, you know, a lot of people would consider the sort of things discussed on GifS to be hate speech… ”
Levendis, put down the crack pipe, baby! I asked if what he does would be covered under the first amendment? Star asked would it be considered a hate crime. Where did anyone suggest making it legislation?
25 May 2006, on 3:26 pm
“Levendis, put down the crack pipe, baby!”
But I like my crack pipe!
Hate crimes and hate speech are two very different things, but I got the impression from your comment that you seemed to equate them. Hate crimes are criminal behavior (like murder) motivated largely by bigotry. Hate speech is not criminal, and yes, that is due to first amendment protections.
25 May 2006, on 3:31 pm
You’d think what Phelps and his moronic flock do would fall under the category of “Fighting Words” which isn’t protected in the First Amendment.
But you’re right, when they were terrorizing Matthew Shepard’s funeral, no member of goverment stepped to try and outlaw it.
I really hope this Act doesn’t pass. Is it just me or is Congress TRYING to give Xians a persecution complex?
25 May 2006, on 3:41 pm
Matt, I don’t see how Phelps’ stuff falls under Fighting Words (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words), as generally they must be actual threats of violence. Phelps is basically saying “I hope you die”, not “I am going to kill you”.
It would be interesting to see this act pass, if only to see it come before the current Supreme Court. This would settle the question of the Bush Administration’s ridiculous “Free Speech zone” bullshit, which is just one of many recent examples of creeping fascism (see http://buffalobeast.com/99/policestate.htm)
25 May 2006, on 3:56 pm
What Freddie Phelps needs is a quality photoset of him getting teabagged by his gay lover. That would really draw attention to his cause.
25 May 2006, on 4:30 pm
Wow, moving them 300 feet away from the entrance will certainly do the trick. No one will ever see their signs or hear their crazy rantings from 300 feet away.
Christians aren’t concerned with the message, but rather the method. They don’t mind discrimination, they just don’t want it to be so overt (at least not until they have enough control of our society that there is limited opposition). They can oppose gay marriage because it violates the “sanctity of marriage”. They can oppose gay adoption because “every baby needs a mother and father”. They have found ways to make discrimination seem appealing to a lot of Americans.
But it is hard to spin Christian protests at a military funeral. This sort of stuff really does look like hateful bigotry to most Christians. But they can’t attack the message in this case, because if they did that, they would be undermining their own position on other gay issues. Thus, in order to avoid the cognitive dissidence, they must try and move these nutjobs out of the public consciousness, which apparently is 300 feet away.
25 May 2006, on 4:34 pm
This should be an interesting case. I believe a lot of whether this violates the first amendment will be determined by how narrow the law is in scope. SCOTUS has upheld that the government has a legitmate right to limit free speech in ceartain circumstances.
The part I really dislike is that while Fred (I’m a closet homo) Phelps disgusts me, as an American I believe he should have the right to his hatefull ideas.
25 May 2006, on 5:08 pm
I wonder how the religeous numnuts will take the ACLU stepping in on this?
25 May 2006, on 5:59 pm
I agree with Bruce; I think the religious wrong currently in political power (and peril) is trying to send Phelps a message, not about his message itself, but about the means he’s using to divulge it.
It’s also to their benefit to diminish any public sign of dissension in their ranks - a protest at a soldier’s funeral could be interpreted as a protest of the military, which could be seen as a protest of the war, which could mean a protest of the Shrub, which could be interpreted as a protest of God’s Own Party…
25 May 2006, on 7:07 pm
I wonder how the religeous numnuts will take the ACLU stepping in on this?
Same way the right-wingers behaved when they defended Rush Limbaugh’s private medical records. Um… Er, they’re an evil liberal organization. Except, um, right now.
I am a proud, card-carrying member of the ACLU.
25 May 2006, on 8:32 pm
Thus far, Fred Phelps hasn’t darkened my doorway but I keep tabs on him. The moment he comes within driving distance for one of his Ignoramus Jamborees, I’m gonna do one of two things. Go up and kiss him Brokeback Mountain style while an accomplice snaps away with the cybershot or just level the bastard with a haymaker and spit on him while he lays there. Maybe both. I’m a little leary about the kissing part- and not just because I’m hetero. I’m a little worried he might try to slip me the tongue and inadvertently spit forth his dentures.
25 May 2006, on 8:43 pm
Oh, man. That is some image, kissing this man. *Shudder*.
Can you imagine the diseases he and his incestuous clan swap back and forth with each other?
26 May 2006, on 7:05 am
“but I got the impression from your comment that you seemed to equate them.”
Unintentional. I was asking, not trying to state anything.
“Hate crimes are criminal behavior (like murder) motivated largely by bigotry. Hate speech is not criminal, and yes, that is due to first amendment protections.”
But I’ve heard countless people say that hate speech isn’t protected under the first admendment. Is this just wishful thinking and wrong intel, then?
26 May 2006, on 8:13 am
Lya said:
But I’ve heard countless people say that hate speech isn’t protected under the first admendment. Is this just wishful thinking and wrong intel, then?
Not wrong intel. The fact is that it is still a hotly debated issue, as was discussed in another thread recently:
http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/05/21/long-live-the-danes/
Jim Royal nicely described the principle disagreement on this issue between free speech absolutists and those that see limits to hate speech (as in much of Europe):
More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech
26 May 2006, on 9:37 am
“But I’ve heard countless people say that hate speech isn’t protected under the first admendment. Is this just wishful thinking…”
Lya, that’s the attitude I’m concerned about. Why should hate speech be illegal? And who decides what counts as hate?
26 May 2006, on 11:15 am
Why should hate speech be illegal? And who decides what counts as hate?
Where I live, in the suburbs of Chicago, if one would write the slogans like the Fred Phelps’ clan does and place it on a person’s private property, it is considered a hate crime…however the KKK, Phelps and other such groups can peacefully assemble a protest of any sort on public property WITH A PROPER PERMIT. If it is more than one person assembled for whatever reason, they must fill out forms and get a permit and there are rules and regulations to follow. This has not stopped riots and violence in the past, however, when the ones being attacked finally fight back…which may well happen with this Phelps cult when gays finally have had enough of them.
26 May 2006, on 11:21 am
Another thought…in this country, the right of free speech also allows the opposition to show up and COUNTER demonstrate. If opposition starts showing up in large numbers in support of these soldiers and their families, they can send the Phelps family squealing back to Bumfuck wherevertheycomefrom.
26 May 2006, on 12:06 pm
“Lya, that’s the attitude I’m concerned about. Why should hate speech be illegal? And who decides what counts as hate? ”
Did I say it should be illegal? I asked.
That said, what do you define as hate speech. Do think what Phelps does should be illegal? No. But if his message were “Kill the fags” yes, that should be illegal.
May be a fine line, but that’s the way I feel.
26 May 2006, on 4:06 pm
(from Wikipedia.com)
Is there a country anywhere on Earth who would want this bastard and his nasty hate-filled family?
Quotations from Phelps’ Sermons
These quotes came from an audio file of sermon clips on satanlovesfredphelps.com.[11]
* “America is doomed and cursed by God irreversibly”.
* “It’s too late to pray for America. It’s a sin to pray for America”.
* “[Hurricane] Rita is an answer to the prayers of the suffering saints of Westboro Baptist Church”.
* “The Lord God Almighty killed [the people who died on 9/11], looked at them in the face, laughed and mocked at each one of them as he cast each one of them into hell”.
* “Nobody that’s intelligent and that fears God will fly the American flag any way but upside-down, the international symbol of distress”.
* “All ye having business before this honorable [Supreme] Court draw nigh, give your attention and ye shall be heard. No, no. Draw nigh and bend over. They’re gonna rape you up the butt”.
* “The President of the United States gets his jollies masturbating horses”. (This was a reference to Laura Bush’s recollection of her husband’s attempt to milk a male horse[12]).
* “The hell with your flag. The hell with your fag army, your fag courts, your fag-run government”.
* “This is the hypocritical, fag-infested, fag-run United States of America and we’re supposed to respect that fag rag flag?”
* “The red on that flag stands for fag rectal blood”.
* “On Pope John Paul II’s watch, the Catholic Church became the church of the holy pedophiles. And sodomite feces replaced the wafer for their communion service. And Sodomite semen replaced the wine that the Pope drinks”.
* “1.07 billion members of that monstrous machine called the Roman Catholic Church. Every last one of them going to hell”.
26 May 2006, on 4:37 pm
What they need is a counter protest. Unfortunately, I’m nowhere near Phelp’s base of operations, or I’d show up, but there should be some way to organize a sizable demonstration wherever he goes. He should not be able to assemble his flock outside the walls of his church without loud and pointed opposition.
26 May 2006, on 4:39 pm
The idea is to divert their energies from protesting to dealing with counter-protesters. It would also send a message of solidarity to the families of the fallen, who are innocent victims in every way.
26 May 2006, on 4:44 pm
I still say let them spew it out in the open where everyone can see their hateful faces and hear their hateful words. That way those who oppose gay rights or are on the fence about it get a good dose of where their prejudices can lead and what they can turn into, and maybe make them question what they believe. Don’t let them go underground where we don’t know where they are, what they’re saying, or what they’re doing.
There’s a reason scum tends to rise to the surface: once it’s there, you can skim it off. That’s where peaceful, rational counter-demonstrations and statements come in showing a much more attractive alternative to the rabid hate; Phelps and his crew can actually make our side look good by comparison.
26 May 2006, on 5:31 pm
“There’s a reason scum tends to rise to the surface” -Eve
And I thought the cream rose to the top. On that note, I liken the current political climate- that, while not embracing the Fred Phelchs’ of the world, seems to at least tolerate them, to a hot wet washcloth placed over a boil on the ass of the hoi polloi as an alternative to lancing the thing. Fred and his ilk, sensing a more welcoming climate, come oozing to the surface where air, sunlight, and a generous dollop of neosporin leaves them drying on a wadded up piece of toilet paper in the trash can. Shit, this dermatological analogy has gotten away from me but I think WE are the Neosporin, the Air, and the Light(and whosoever Believeth in us…). Oh, and the rising pus is kinda like cream except gross. The lancing would, I guess, be, like, impaling Fred Phelch on, say, a telephone pole. Never mind.
26 May 2006, on 7:30 pm
I doubt that Phelps really has a free speech case here-the law doesn’t forbid him to say the idiotic things he says, it just restricts where and when he can say them. Politicians have been enforcing “Free Speech Zones” for years and have been successful in defending their right to do so, and this legislation is really no different than creating a Free Speech Zone around a soldiers funeral.
26 May 2006, on 8:56 pm
Seems like I heard once that only family members of the planted- and their invited guests- were the only people permitted legally in the cemetery. I hear also that they’re not keen on folks being naked after midnight in there either. Not that I’d know.
26 May 2006, on 10:40 pm
BruceH
What they need is a counter protest.
Apparently, according to the Alternate Brain blog, this is happening to some extent - Two Wheels for Honour
I’m hoping that link works OK - if not, it’s on Alternate Brain, post Two Wheels for Honour, Friday May 5th.
Well worth a look. Made me happy to read it…
27 May 2006, on 1:48 am
raindog sez:
Seems like I heard once that only family members of the planted-
“Planted??” HA!
30 May 2006, on 6:49 am
concerning Star’s post about Phelp’s quotes - does anyone else get the feeling that Phelp’s boyfriend must have dumped him in a really realyl nasty way? That much bitterness can only come from a queen scorned.
30 May 2006, on 2:18 pm
does anyone else get the feeling that Phelp’s boyfriend must have dumped him in a really realyl nasty way? That much bitterness can only come from a queen scorned.
Lya, that is a big possibility. Methinks he “doth protest too much” for a reason.
3 June 2006, on 3:41 am
1 single teeny tiny little question why hasent anyone fire bombed their church yet hope they dont have insurance!
3 June 2006, on 6:44 am
“1 single teeny tiny little question why hasent anyone fire bombed their church yet hope they dont have insurance!”
They have, back in August 1995. How satisfying would that be!?
http://www.godhatesfags.com/featured/bombing/america-bombed-wbc.html
3 June 2006, on 6:51 am
Because then you would make a David Koresh-style martyr outta maniac Phelps.
3 June 2006, on 7:31 am
August 20, 1995 - The Night America Bombed Westboro Baptist Church With An IED (Improvised Explosive Device) In A Cowardly Move To Stop WBC’s Anti-Gay Gospel Preaching - Thereby Bringing Down The Unmitigated And Irreversible Wrath Of God Upon This Evil Nation, Manifesting Itself In The Daily Bloody IED-Deaths Of American Soldiers In Iraq And Other Places. (See Documentation below).
Hey. Something tells me they have changed this title in light of recent history. Just a wild guess.
3 June 2006, on 12:00 pm
Joules,
Two Wheels for Honour would be much more impressive if a few hundred of them camped out in front of the Phelps homestead and protested there for a week… maybe longer?
I swear, if I lived in Topeka, I’d be out there twice a week to picket their existence.
The good thing about Phelps is that he’s so crazy that no one seems to think he’s relevant.
4 June 2006, on 3:27 pm
No expression, regardless of content or context, should be banned in a free society. Respect for Fallen Heros is just another phrase for coerced authoritarianism.
6 June 2006, on 12:06 am
What does being gay or not have to do with with a fallin soldier? When our young men and women enlist in the armed forces some how I don’t think there is the question on the paper work of their sexual preference.I believe they enlist due to a sense of duty and honor to their country and faimily.These values along with many others have been lost along the way.From what I have seen and heard of the WBBC those people have no VALUES! at all.Our armed forces are fighting for our freedom including the WBBC members.We all should pray for the WBBC members because they all need help from a higher being.
6 June 2006, on 1:24 am
Despite your simple-minded take on what our soldiers are currently being asked to fight for, I agree with you, Polecat… The WBC are fucking nuts and have no values. However, praying to an imaginary sky daddy is not going to help them. That’s just a milder version of their own form of insanity. We’d be better off in a world with a lot more thoughtfulness rather than mindless jingoism and religion.
I support our troops. At this point, I say bring ‘em the fuck home. There’s no way to fuck up Iraq any worse.
23 July 2006, on 11:24 pm
The ACLU defends anyone’s right to free speech………..even Phelps.
Hate speech isn’t a crime. In some states if it leads to bodily harm, destruction of property and the like that becomes a hate crime. All states don’t have hate crime laws.
I think most of us agree Phelps and company are morons. He is also a monster who abused his wife and children to the point that they are lucky to be alive.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/michael_haggerty/expose3.htm
I don’t believe he is gay or bi sexual. At least one of his children is gay so imagine the hate there. That child changed his name as did another and moved away.
The “church members” they speak of are the brainwashed kids who stayed with him, their spouses and grandchildren. Only ONE member is non family.
This isn’t some huge church that you have to worry about twisting the minds of your loved ones.
Anyone who is posting here also has the time to write to their Congress Person. Take the time and effort to stop this sick SOB and protect the funerals of everyone. Mention military, miners, GLBT community but don’t dwell on just them because you don’t know who the next target will be.
Sue
http://www.webslingerz.com/jhoffman/congress-email.html
23 July 2006, on 11:44 pm
Sue: I am with you 100%. Phelps’ gang is tiny and twisted. And yes, the ACLU is there for all of us, of all political stripes, and I am sick of defending them against the very lunatic fringe dickheads who turn to them when they are being censored or having their civil rights stripped away. Hello?? I am a member of the ACLU, so I am paying for YOUR DEFENSE, Mr. Limbaugh. Wake up.
But also, I must say that I have no problem focusing on these shitbags and bringing their hate to light. They have been and always will be a liability the Xian Right, and I have no trouble watching them all squirm as they try to rid themselves of this trash. Come on, Xian Right — you hate homos, we know you do, but HOW MUCH? As much as Fred Phelps? Let’s be clear on the extent of your hate!
5 October 2006, on 9:00 pm
I was about to write a scathing letter to the church when i found out they were going to protest the funeral of the amish girls killed in Pa. when I read on their site, In the FAQs section: “All people, from the moment of birth, deserve to die”
What the hell do you say to an evil SOB like that? These people serve no good in society and deserve to be eradicated, free speech or not.