Atheist
29 June 2006 by StardustThis You Tube is worth a few minutes of your time to watch. I have to agree with Dan Barker who said, this video was “very creative and powerful” and indeed “makes a GREAT point!”
James Randi said it was “very cool!”
Michael Shermer said it was “very impressive.”
The music is called “Is This The Real Thing” by DJ Madson. It is from the movie “The God Who Wasn’t There”.
29 June 2006, on 3:36 am
I love the fact that it ends with a quote from Carl.
29 June 2006, on 6:19 am
It proved it’s point, although I doubt many theists will “believe” it.
29 June 2006, on 8:08 am
Carl was/is one of my inspirations to become a writer and sparked my interest in science.
I enjoyed reading those statistics, especially the prison numbers. Does anyone know of any detailed studies comparing atheists with theists on other matters? If not, someone needs to get a grant and make a study!
Peace.
29 June 2006, on 11:01 am
The trouble with theists/atheists studies is that many who might qualify as the latter may bow to societal/family pressures to claim the former. Unfortunately, being an “out” atheist is akin to being homosexual or some other perceived recipient of pariah status. Viva Sagan! Viva Satan!
29 June 2006, on 11:45 am
I disagree with the homo comparison.
No matter the public setting (work, social, volunteer, etc) I am very comfortable being “out” as a gay man with a progressive/liberal cultural perspective. Those are the crowds I travel in. But even in those environments I am very circumspect about admitting my Atheism. The few times I’ve acknowledged it around people I did not know well there have invariably been some reactions (looks and/or comments) of surprise and unease. If I gently press the matter and inquire about their formal religious beliefs sometimes they admit to having none, but are still uncomfortable with an outright declaration of Atheism.
29 June 2006, on 11:53 am
PS Really enjoyed the video. I have asked the local library to get a DVD of “The God Who Wasn’t There” but they first said they couldn’t find it so I emailed the Amazon link and have never heard back. And it still does not show up in the catalogue. In general they have a wide variety of progressive and controversial books on a vast array of topics, but their god-free selection is spartan at best. I am thinking about supporting the makers of “The God Who Wasn’t There” and buying two DVDs and donating one to the library just to see what happens.
29 June 2006, on 12:39 pm
I am thinking about supporting the makers of “The God Who Wasn’t There” and buying two DVDs and donating one to the library just to see what happens.
Lurch : Let me know how that turns out if you do it. I did that years ago with homeschooling books and the librarian said though it is a nice gesture, it would have to go before the library board for “consideration” (meaning veto). The books probably went into their book sale they regularly have for the public, or in the garbage because they have never shown up on the shelves.
29 June 2006, on 1:49 pm
Every time I see Carl Sagan I want to cry. His early death while the fucking pope continued to live well past his best before date illustrates just how fucking unfair life is. Carl Sagan–what a fabulous educator and inspiring man!
Lurch, I have a gay friend who recently rejoined the church we had both attended while I was a youngster and ignorant of all things atheistic. I was completely astonished and disappointed that he would head back into the ‘fold’ of those ignorant homophobic self-righteous hypocrits. I think he has a very hard time dealing with my atheism and even though his congregation sees him as a “sinner” he still prefers hanging out with them. I’m perplexed.
Stardust, you mentioned giving some homeschooling books to a library. Did you homeschool? I homeschooled my daughter for 5 years.
29 June 2006, on 2:06 pm
Lynda — Our three homeschooled/independent studied for high school (actually my daughter left in the middle of 7th grade). We were extremely sick and tired of the games of the system and they were incredibly bored. They went on to college while their peers were still in high school and had their associates degrees while their peers were receiving their high school diplomas. They are all grown now. One is still pursuing a degree in Physics, one has a degree in graphic design (but is a semi truckdriver because it makes more money) and my daughter just got her Masters in Music Performance from Yale University. Our kids have learned that there are other paths and options to take in life to be successful.
29 June 2006, on 2:49 pm
“Wow” …that’s a GREAT video!
As to Statistics on various aspects, comparing Theists & Atheists, I think I have something in my files in that ‘vein’. I may start hunting for it. “Oy Vey!”
The ‘Library’ comments have also tweaked some brain cells! ["What! ...You have some left?"]
Of course, I think there’s a listing at, …Wikipedia? …of famous Atheists.
Like many of you [I'm guessing], I have a shitload of files on like-minded stuff!
["Try finding it, though!"]
Thanks, Stardust, for posting that! I’d love, aside from just the link, to have a Windows Media version for my files!
Be Well, everyone! “I wish you Love!”
29 June 2006, on 2:52 pm
Not being a gay man, Lurch, I just assumed that the social baggage of outing oneself either as gay or atheist was heavy. It’s good news then that you’ve found your “out” life fairly comfortable but I suspect that it isn’t always so. Still, you’re right that atheism has more of a stigma attached to it. As an iconoclast, I’m the type to wear “Christianity Is Stupid. Give Up.” t-shirts to church services sheerly for the negative reaction, just to let ‘em know that there are folks out there that don’t buy their BS. Also, there was a cool contest with the god movie involving taking photographs of oneself holding the DVD at a church. BTW, I’m still waiting on my Library to get a copy as well.
29 June 2006, on 3:06 pm
Thanks, Stardust, for posting that! I’d love, aside from just the link, to have a Windows Media version for my files!
Be Well, everyone! “I wish you Love!”
You are welcome. I wasn’t even looking for it. I was looking for something else and there it was. I love the way it is put together and though there are lists of atheists from various sources, it was nice to see the human faces that are attached to the names…loving, funny and very giving people.
Love to you too ChuckA!
29 June 2006, on 3:37 pm
To those looking for The God Who Wasn’t There here is their website http://thegodmovie.com/.
29 June 2006, on 5:15 pm
While this was pretty cool, a similiar film showing the positive contributions of people who believe in god could be made. I’m sure there are many religious people with multiple Phd’s and such, so basically this really is just rehtoric. I say this as an athiest, as well as Carl Sagan being a personal hero of mine.
29 June 2006, on 7:34 pm
Maximillien, but on the other hand think of the tremendous evil done in the name of that gawd and believers in same versus, um, well, versus what, Stalin? Sorry, State as gawd theist. Mao? Same thing. Someone told me that Pol Pot was an atheist but the Khmer Rouge killing off all the intellectuals down to people who wore glasses doesn’t necessarily support that. I really don’t know about Pol Pot. You’ve also got to include things done in the name of Satan on the gawd side of the ledger, being as lucifer was the creation of gawd.
PS: There are three PhDs, two masters, one JD, and one Actuarial Fellowship just in my generation of my family. All godbotherers but me.
29 June 2006, on 7:40 pm
A couple of freebees They are each 47 minutes long.
Richard Dawkins; “The Root of All Evil”
Part1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6193866746249268230
Part 2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8239331458224461127
Stardust
you home schooled your kids. Fantastic. High school was sooo boring to me. I wish (little good that does) I had an alternative back then. Your my hero.
29 June 2006, on 8:35 pm
Thanks jimmer. I hadn’t seen those yet. The religious leaders interviewed are quite a cause for concern since they have so much power and influence. The evangelical guy who runs ‘Six Flags over Jeebus’(my name for it) in Colorado is a real asshole. And the way he “orders” people to respond, and they all say what he says to say in unison like a bunch of robots shows the power of brainwashing techniques.
29 June 2006, on 8:53 pm
I bought a copy of “The God Who Wasn’t There “ when it first became available on Amazon. To be honest, I was a little disappointed. Maybe I was looking for something that would inspire a Theist to change. I am very perplexed over what I see as our ineffectiveness in getting through to the unreasoning crowd. Does anyone have an idea how this may be accomplished?
29 June 2006, on 9:00 pm
Tony D says:I am very perplexed over what I see as our ineffectiveness in getting through to the unreasoning crowd.Does anyone have an idea how this may be accomplished?
Tony D –
This is the only way
30 June 2006, on 2:09 am
Stardust1954 says: This is the only way.
I’m not sure this is the way at all. We must recognize that religion is an addiction, giving it up or even contemplating giving it up may result in major psychological stress. Religion tends to be the crutch for these crippled minds. Minds that have long since lost the ability to use critical thinking and reason.
This brings to mind H.L. Mencken’s statement: “God is the immemorial refuge of the
incompetent, the helpless, the miserable. They find not only sanctuary in His arms but also a kind of superiority, soothing to their macerated egos; He will set them above their betters.”
In view of the fact that this is truly an addiction perhaps we should start a “Religion Anonymous” organization.
30 June 2006, on 2:21 am
In view of the fact that this is truly an addiction perhaps we should start a “Religion Anonymous” organization.
That is actually a good idea.
One thing that my husband and I have found is that there are more atheists and agnostics out there than we thought. My husband found an atheist guy at a recent wedding we were at and they ended up laughing and talking about how the pastor hijacked the wedding ceremony, etc. If my husband had not spoken up to this man and said “I really don’t believe that stuff about gawd’s glue holding a marriage together. . . ” he would never have found out that this guy was an atheist because people just don’t go announcing something like that. The more atheists that come out of the closet, the braver others will be and maybe those who are “pretending” to be xian will admit their atheism. I guess we can dream! LOL!
30 June 2006, on 3:15 am
Tony D
Don’t be too dissapointed. Faith and reason are opposites.
Reason is the basis for science and faith is the basis for
superstition.To reason is a human trait. Churches are vegetable
gardens. Jack
30 June 2006, on 3:53 am
Tony D
What kind of a religion did you have in mind. When
I think of a religion I can see a cartoon with a scarecrow
in the middle of a garden and each morning the veggies
bow to it but it does nothing kind of like the Pope that
Lynda speaks about.Jack
30 June 2006, on 4:02 am
Stardust1954
Please forgive me but the 1954 is driving me nuts.
The reason is that I graduated from High School in 1954.
Also Stardust was one of my favorite tunes when I played
trombone.
30 June 2006, on 4:10 am
Jack says:
Churches are vegetable
gardens.
Ha!
30 June 2006, on 9:27 am
I’m convinced that a good stoning might knock the gawd out of ‘em and, even if it didn’t, it’d be a fun way to bring the community together for a party. Of course, like (M)Ann Coulter, I’m only kidding. Actually, an escorted, lysergic trip through, say, Tim Leary’s Third Bardo might do the trick. Sure, we’d end up with a large number of gawping, gorked-out failures but think of the successes. Besides, we could pit the acid casualties against four-assed monkeys in the New Colosseum and charge twenty bucks a head to Nascar fans for admittance.
30 June 2006, on 9:56 am
Stardust1954
Please forgive me but the 1954 is driving me nuts.
The reason is that I graduated from High School in 1954.
Also Stardust was one of my favorite tunes when I played
trombone.
jack – I keep taking out the 1954 and it keeps popping back in there and I am too lazy to change it. 1954 was the year I was born. I had to add numbers when picking the name since “stardust” is so popular. Stardust is my favorite song of all time I also picked it because I am into astronomy, and also because of the fact that we are all made of starstuff. I have a son who plays trombone. What a coincidence!
30 June 2006, on 1:30 pm
OK, Stardust1954, and Jack; [Thanks for the clarification!] …
I can’t keep by trap shut; all this coincidence talk!
Just filling in more blanks about myself [like it's important, huh?]; …I was a Sophomore in High School in 1954, and Restarted, that year, playing the trombone [I foist did it in 6th grade] by ear. Long story short; that eventually led me to majoring in Music at DePaul U., with trombone being my major instrument. [I had also been a Glee Club [vocal] soloist in High School.] I studied trombone with Mark McDunn, a CBS staff musician, and DePaul U. teacher; and also with Ed Kleinhammer of the Chicago Symphony Orch. After getting a BA in Music, I went professional; playing in all kinds of combos, bands & Orchestras. By the late 1960s, I was doing more singing and Bass guitar [more gig opportunities!]; as well as private teaching.
“Zama, Zama!”
As to the tune “Stardust”; I last played that great standard [by Hoagy Charmichael?] during a 5 1/2 year [every Sat. night] bass guitar stint at Sear’s Tower’s Metropolitan Club, on the 67th floor. What a strange place to be on the Saturday night after 9/11! “Da plane!,…da plane!”
I don’t miss being there, these days;…guess why? [I miss the money, though!]
Sorry for my egotistical [egotesticle?] interruption; ….Now, back to your regular programing! [?]
30 June 2006, on 1:34 pm
Quick addendum: My last gig at Sears Tower was July 9, 2005.
30 June 2006, on 5:21 pm
From Stardust: The evangelical guy who runs ‘Six Flags over Jeebus’(my name for it) in Colorado is a real asshole. And the way he “orders” people to respond, and they all say what he says to say in unison like a bunch of robots shows the power of brainwashing techniques.
At the worst end of the theist group-think-mind-control spectrum they become frightening cults and I think it is time our culture starts acknowledging that somehow. What is the difference between drinking the Kool-Aid and believing the world really was created in 7 days, other than one is immediately fatal. Both are stupid and any group that wants you to be stupid qualifies as a cult in my book. Stupid people are much easier to control as are people who are more inclined to the emotions of faith as opposed to the facts of reason. Emotion clouds logic.
To get away from cults people need to go through some sort of deprogramming.
Some friends of mine go to church but freely admit they don’t believe in any of the fundamental tenets. They go mostly so their kids can take part in the youth programs and for some of the social aspects, which I can understand. There really is nothing comparable on the non-theist side of things. Not on a global scale.
Brief Tangent: One of my fave shows is PBS’ “Mental Engineering” where Host John Forde and a guest panel “vivisect” TV commercials. During a discussion of a Lockheed Martin commercial which posited that Freedom was most important, host Forde mentioned recent physiological research that found that “belonging” was the single most important thing for people, even above freedom. If that is true it would further illuminate the hold religion has had on people through the ages. The need for “belonging” might also explain your friend’s return to the church, Lynda.
At this point I think the best thing individuals can do is discuss their non-theist beliefs publicly, like Stardust and her hubby. I am getting braver. The other day a Jehovah’s Witness came to the door and tried to give me a pamphlet, I was very courteous but explained that I was a committed Atheist and he should save the pamphlet for someone else. He came right back with, “Don’t you want something better?” and I responded, “Yes, I work everyday for something better, for me, my friends and everyone else – even Jehovah’s Witnesses. But I don’t rely on mythology.” He left shortly after that and I could tell he was not used to that sort of comment. Can you imagine Atheists going door-to-door?
I hope everyone has a happy and safe holiday!
30 June 2006, on 5:55 pm
You too, Lurch!
30 June 2006, on 6:52 pm
Stupid people are much easier to control as are people who are more inclined to the emotions of faith as opposed to the facts of reason. Emotion clouds logic.
And stupid brainwashed people fork over their money easier and in larger quantities. The facilities of that cult center in Colorado shown on the Dawkins video Jimmer provided the link for above, didn’t get there by the snapping of the fingers of the great sky daddy. It came out of people’s pockets. Money that could have gone to take their families on a nice vacation, home repairs, helping the poor, feeding the homeless…and so on. It’s pure greed. I remember when Robert Schuller’s “Crystal Cathedral” was being built and he was on television begging for money to build his “dream”…my father would say what a THIEF the man was and how he was doing that for his OWN glory, not for the glory of his gawd. These pastors in charge are into glorifying THEMSELVES. That guy on the Dawkins video is an arrogant prick. (Ironic he keeps saying that Dawkins is arrogant, when he is so full of himself.)
(fixed Dawkins name sp-thanks Sean for pointing that out.)
30 June 2006, on 7:23 pm
Star: important clarification. Richard Dawkins is an English scientist. Richard Dawson used to host the TV game show “Family Feud.”
Hey, there’s an idea. Let’s get Richard Dawkins’ family and Jerry Fallwell’s family on that show and see which group has more brainz.
30 June 2006, on 7:34 pm
Star: important clarification. Richard Dawkins is an English scientist. Richard Dawson used to host the TV game show “Family Feud.”
Sorry…typo brain fart. It’s been one of those days. I will fix it, thanks for pointing it out and thanks for turning it into a funny mistake! LOL!
1 July 2006, on 1:38 am
Stardust1964,…Yeah!…small world!
[Of course, for the other members here, this is all completely off topic! My apologies!]
A few things pop out, Stardust, from you comments:
I’ll TRY to keep this relatively short:
I’m now 66, and pretty much retired from real active playing. My real ‘Trombone’ days were mainly in the 1960s into the ’70s. I did more ‘gigging’ with singing and doubling bass guitar [self taught] after that period! I still, always, keep ‘in touch’ with the trombone ['Pretty decent chops!']. I’ve also done some private teaching; …lastly, from 1998-2002 at Beautiful Music, in Downers Grove, IL. I also play [at] a goodly number of other instruments; so, … besides trombone & baritone horn, I was teaching piano, flute, clarinet, alto sax, C tuba…and even beginner violin!…They also wanted me to teach guitar! YIKES!…["How nuts am I, you ask?"]
I may try to do some teaching online; if I can work out the myriad logistics of setting up a Website, and the obvious problems therein!
[That's another trip! ...at least it eliminates driving!...and sitting with sneezing students, etc. ...I'll let you know?]
Now;…more to the point:
First off, when I was at DePaul [1958-1963], Jay Friedman, was studying at Roosevelt College, which is close to the DePaul downtown campus. [Wabash & Jackson] He used to play in the DePaul Symphony and ‘hang out’ a bit. At that time DePaul’s Music school had moved to the Lewis Tower’s 5th Floor. It’s now, on the Northside campus.
Long & short: We were acquainted, and I did some three trombone [casual] ensemble playing with him, and the eventual Lyric Opera bass trombonist, Marty Fako, who also studied at DePaul. I never dreamed that Jay would become the CSO’s first trombonist. I almost went the Symphony route, but I was much more into Jazz at that time. [Stan Kenton, Woody Herman, etc.] The only ‘name’ bands I worked with were Les Elgart, Claude Thornhill; it was more a College proms, and ‘haphazard’ ballroom style shtick in those days; and gigs like the Roseland Ballroom in NY, with Jimmy Featherstone ["Jimmy who's stoned?"],…the stuff which was dying out in the ’60s! Several years ago, I emailed a ‘hello’ note to Freidman’s website; but never received a reply. [He's too high class now, I guess!]
I’ll leave off, for now. If interested, I guess we could exchange emails sometime down the road. Anyway, thanks for the response. Best wishes to your son and daughter in their musical careers; needless to say: “It ain’t easy in the Arts!”
[I'm way out of touch with the current faculty at DePaul; and for that matter, what's happening with the CSO! I go back to the days of the CSO with Fritz Reiner as conductor. I also, while I was a student, worked for WGN-TV as a 'page' in those days; when they broadcast some marvelous CSO live concerts.
"Be Well!"
[What! ...to sorta quote 'Dubya' regarding posting: "This is Hard Work!"]
5 October 2006, on 10:48 pm
[...] A wondeful little piece of video. Please watch. I’m ecstatic to find out Oz is an atheist! [...]