Isis, Osiris and Horus Links to Christianity
30 June 2006 by Stardust
One of these two images is a famous medieval icon of Mary and Jesus, the other is a bronze statue of Isis nursing Horus dating from the Ptolomeic era of Egypt
Some scholars argue that aspects of Isis worship have influenced the practices of some Christians in regard to the Virgin Mary and especially her relationship with her son, Jesus. There is a strong resemblance to the depiction of the seated Isis holding or suckling the child Horus and the seated Mary and the baby Jesus. It has been suggested by these scholars that the reason Isis worship abruptly ends, despite the vast number of its adherents, is due to her having been identified as Mary, and her temples having been merely renamed in consequence. If this is true then it could be said that, in a way, Isis is still worshipped today, and has been for at least 5000 years.
Many Egyptologists however disagree with the claims, stating that by the time the cult of Virgin Mary arose, the worship of Isis has greatly evolved from the Egyptian myths, and her relationship with Horus was no longer a major factor. These egyptologists consider that the goddess whose worship was replaced by Christianity was a merged Isis-Aphrodite hybrid, with sexuality and magical aspects much more important to the cult. By this time she was almost never depicted as a mother with baby; she was mostly depicted alone, often lifting her dress to expose her genitals. Nethertheless, the resemblence between early christian images of Mary and those of Isis are sometimes striking, providing an explanation for the somewhat awkward position of Mary’s arm - breastfeeding that was later censured by the addition of clothing.
Isis’ son, Horus is an ancient god of Egyptian mythology, whose cult survived so long that he evolved dramatically over time and gained many names. The most well known name is the Greek Horus, representing the Egyptian Heru/Har, which is the basic element in most of the other names of Horus. Horus was so important that the Eye of Horus became an important Egyptian symbol of power and even to this day is represented on the U.S. one dollar bill.
Horus and Jesus
A connection between Jesus and Horus-Osiris is frequently raised by critics of the historicity of Jesus. Superficially, the death and resurrection of Horus-Osiris, and Horus’ nature as both the son of Osiris and Osiris himself, appear to be a template for the idea that this occurred in Jesus.
Deeper similarities between Horus and Jesus, which are not at all obvious to those who are not completely familiar with ancient Egyptian mythology and linguistics, have been said by some to mean that certain elements of the story of Jesus were embellishments, which were copied from the Horus as syncretism. Indeed, according to a few more radical scholars, Jesus was copied from Horus wholesale, and made into a Jewish teacher. In particular, it is said that Horus is the basis for the elements assigned to the M Gospel (the bits in Matthew which are not in the Q Gospel or Mark) and the L Gospel (the bits in Luke which are not in the Q gospel or Mark), especially the infancy narratives.
Jesus brought salvation. Osiris brought salvation 1,400 years earlier. Osiris’ followers knew their fate after death depended on the morality of the life they lead before death. The ancient Book of the Dead pictures resurrected believers standing in the presence of Osiris as their judge. If they could recite a list of their good deeds in life, Osiris rewarded them with eternal life. When initiates into the mysteries of Isis and Osiris died, their souls traveled to Heaven and Osiris became their king. How do we know this? The ancients tell us so. Here’s Plutarch [who lived from about 45 to 120 AD] And it wasn’t just Plutarch who wrote about salvation through Isis and Osiris:
“The keys of hell and the guarantee of salvation were in the hands of the goddess, and the initiation ceremony itself a kind of voluntary death and salvation through divine grace.” Apuleius, Metamorphosis, Book 11, 21]
And, “Be of good cheer, O initiates, for the god is saved, and we shall have salvation for our woes.” [Firmicus Maternus, The Error of Pagan Religions, 22.1]
Quoting the Goddess Isis: ” I have come with solace and aid. Away then with tears. cease to moan. Send sorrow fleeing. Soon through my providence shall the sun of your salvation rise.” Apuleius, Metamorphosis 11.5]
Wikipedia Links: Isis, Osiris, Horus
Link: Pagan Origins of Christ Myth
30 June 2006, on 1:06 pm
Stardust - May I ask an offtopic question? I think I remember you saying you have worked with children in the past. Here, we have scripture classes as part of our public education system, including non-scripture for those whose beliefs are not covered by the other classes. The people who teach these are not regular teachers and I have been considering volunteering to take the non-scripture and I thought your advice might be helpful (anyone else can chime in too).
I don’t mean to indoctrinate the kids with what I believe, I want to take the opportunity to teach them things like what the scientific method is and how to recognise logical fallacies and propaganda techniques (which means I need to study those myself, I only recognise them in an instinctive sense atm) and random cool things about stuff like history or that those math problems where they have to fill in the square are actually algebra and it is nothing to fear.
I don’t expect them to leap at the chance to learn these things because non-scripture is normally (well, my experience was) a quiet time for things like drawing so my current intention is to treat them like people and tell them they don’t have to listen if they don’t want to. I remember when I was a child I sometimes went to a religious one because I liked the stories, so I want to offer them (in my opinion) better ones (like The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents), so even if they don’t listen to the first part of what I have to say they may at least take something away from the second - stories have always been a basic drive for me so I expect they are important to to other people too.
And even if this idea falls through I will still work to have thinking skills established as part of our educational curriculum, something everyone should be able to get behind.
30 June 2006, on 1:10 pm
And to respond the post itself: Is there any element of the Jesus myth not preempted by some other mythology?
30 June 2006, on 1:54 pm
I think that part of what we’re dealing with, in the similarity of religion myths, is the fact that human beings basically think in the same ways, and have the same kinds of questions about the world, no matter where they’re at, or what culture they’re part of. I think that religion myths are to some extent derivitive of each other (Christianity particularly so, because they specifically encorporated large chunks of heathen beliefs while they were taking over), but I suspect a lot of the similarities can be explained by the fact that we all think a lot of the same things, and wonder a lot of the same things.
For example, if you look into different cultures, you find that nearly every culture has some sort of vampire monster in their mythos somewhere. Is this because there are really vampires, or because all primitive humans, being diurnal, and having bad night sight, were all a bit afraid of the dark, and the night, and what happened out there where you couldn’t see? Real vampires, or real wasting diseases and blood-loss diseases that couldn’t be explained by the local shaman/witch doctor/medicine man/whatever? Real vampires, or real people that were accidently buried alive, and dug their way out, half-crazed by the experience?
It’s the same with religion. No human wants to face the fact that they’re going to die, and that’s it. All that work and effort, so at the end, pfft, gone, means little or nothing. So, primitive humans invent and embrace the idea that there’s Something to go on to after you die. Sometimes good people do bad things, and they want to know that there’s a way to make up for those bad things, or be forgiven for them, and so you get things like the Christ/Horus mythos. No one wants to believe that a human being can really be an absolute evil monster, so you get stuff like the Devil, the evil gods, the frost giants, whatever, influencing people. Everyone wants a purpose, and gods supply it.
In a way, it’s kind of nice to know that we’re all similar enough to dream up basicaly the same answers for unanswerable questions. It means that, despite everything else, despite cultures and so forth, we all think the same way, and love the same way, and fear the same way. It means we all have common ground to work from.
Now, if we could just get religion and politics out of the way so we could actually work from that common ground . . .
30 June 2006, on 2:11 pm
Some of the other things that Christianity has absorbed- or stolen depending on the way you look at it. Christmas, winter solstice or the birth of the Sun becomes birth of the Son. Easter, the resurrection or the reawakening of nature- crops, animal births, the Cross itself from the Egyptians by way of the Celts, Noah’s tale from the Epic of Gilgamesh. I’m telling you that these monotheist religions are distillations of what came before and not revelations.
30 June 2006, on 5:04 pm
Aesmael: And to respond the post itself: Is there any element of the Jesus myth not preempted by some other mythology?
Well, there *is* a danger in trying to attribute every detail of a given mythology to another, even a predating one.
For example, the Wikipedia entry on Frazer’s highly influential “The Golden Bough,” notes, “Most contemporary anthropologists have concluded that Frazer….placed too much weight on what he called ‘the essential similarity of man’s chief wants everywhere and at all times’ (ch. lxix).”
As another example, I remember reading “Shakespeare in the Bush,” written by an anthropologist living with an African tribe who ended up reading “Hamlet” to them during their seasonal beer-drinking festival, thinking they would relate most easily to its “universal” themes.
Contrary to her expectations, they interpreted the play completely differently from the way European and even Asian readers, actors, and directors have. Since in their culture, madness is cast upon someone by a witch who is also the closest male relative, Hamlet’s usurping uncle Claudius had to have driven Hamlet mad, quite possibly by sending the “omen” of his dead father (they don’t believe in ghosts), which should have been immediately referred to Claudius as chief and elder.
The tribal chief went on to take over the story-telling:
“‘Polonius knew his son [Laertes] would get into trouble, and so he did. He had many fines to pay for fighting, and debts from gambling. But he had only two ways of getting money quickly. One was to marry off his sister [Ophelia] at once, but it is difficult to find a man who will marry a woman desired by the son [Hamlet] of a chief. For if the chief’s heir commits adultery with your wife, what can you do? Only a fool calls a case against a man who will someday be his judge. Therefore Laertes had to take the second way: he killed his sister by witchcraft, drowning her so he could secretly sell her body to the witches.’
“I raised an objection. ‘They found her body and buried it. Indeed Laertes jumped into the grave to see his sister once more–so, you see, the body was truly there. Hamlet, who had just come back, jumped in after him.’
“‘What did I tell you?’ The elder appealed to the others. ‘Laertes was up to no good with his sister’s body. Hamlet prevented him, because the chief’s heir, like a chief, does not wish any other man to grow rich and powerful. Laertes would be angry, because he would have killed his sister without benefit to himself. In our country he would try to kill Hamlet for that reason. Is this not what happened?’
Yes, because as we all know, Laertes challenges Hamlet to a duel in which all the principal characters die.
“‘Sometime,’ concluded the old man, gathering his ragged toga about him, ‘you must tell us some more stories of your country. We, who are elders, will instruct you in their true meaning, so that when you return to your own land your elders will see that you have not been sitting in the bush, but among those who know things and who have taught you wisdom.’”
The funniest part is that the tribesmen also believe that “‘people are the same everywhere; therefore, there are always witches and it is we, the elders, who know how witches work.’” I wonder how *they* interpret xianity?
30 June 2006, on 5:31 pm
Aesmael - How old are the children? You mention algebra and scientific method, so I am thinking they are junior high or high school ages? Are you asking me to recommend a curriculum, reading list or topic suggestions? I’m just trying to clarify the question you are asking…thanks.
30 June 2006, on 6:11 pm
Is there any element of the Jesus myth not preempted by some other mythology?
It all started somewhere. I like to use the example of the game “Chinese Telephone” where the first person listens to a sentence whispered into his/her ear, and then whispers it to the next person, and then that person whispers it to the next person, and so on. By the time it gets to the last person, most of the time you end up with all kinds of things added in that weren’t originally stated and other things taken out that had been there. The meaning is altered or totally changed by the time it goes through all those people. The more people who are in the chain, the more twisted the story is. This is pretty much how religion is passed along amongst the uneducated masses.
There are basic elements of mythologies that have been passed from one society to another, back and forth and is another reason why we find so many similarites between mythologies. Then, in addition to the “borrowed” myths, new elements are added to make one myth somewhat different from the other, influenced by the experiences and needs of each society. Religion has been like a big long chain, keeping people connected to an ancient past that has little relevance to today’s world and is actually harmful in a modern world that has grown “smaller” and people must interact and cooperate with each other on an international level.
Good quote by Joseph Campbell:
“The thing I see about the Bible that’s unfortunate is that it’s a tribally circumscribed mythology. It deals with a certain people at a certain time. The Christians magnified it to include them. It then turns this society against all others, whereas the condition of the world today is that this particular society that’s presented in the Bible isn’t even the most important. This thing is like a dead weight. It’s pulling us back because it belongs to an earlier period. We can’t break loose and move into a modern theology.
“One of the great promises of mythology is, with what social group do you identify? How about the planet? To say that the members of this particular social group are the elite of God’s world is a good way to keep that group together, but look at the consequences! I think that what might be called the sanctified chauvinism of the Bible is one of the curses of the planet today.”
1 July 2006, on 1:10 am
Thanks for the great dinner read, Stardust. It went extremely well with Chinese dry fried chicken wings. I don’t know why. Maybe it was tight, like unto a dish.
I have no idea what I am talking about.
Anyway, this all goes to show the ridiculousness of believing in myth as fact. Not only is it not fact, but it’s not even original fact. It’s been reworked from previous so-called facts.
Let’s use the assertions of our recent visitor Mr. Catholic McMoneybags as an example. He declared that there were many religions in the world, but only his was the true religion, and in fact only his sect was the true interpretation of that religion.
Now let’s substitute “myth” for “religion.” There are thousands of myths in the world, most of which have evolved in some way from the same primary sources. However, of all these myths that have evolved and changed and merged and diverged over thousands of years of being told, my myth is actually true. In point of fact, my sect’s interpretation of this ancient and malleable myth is the only one that is truly true. In fact, only the recent aspects of my sect’s interpretation of this myth (as in the abolishment of Limbo and Vatican II) are truly truly true. All other myths and their translations and interpretations, ancient or modern, are false except for mine. And I believe this with absolute certaintly.
Well, to that, I say welcome to the laughing academy.
1 July 2006, on 1:14 am
The funniest part is that the tribesmen also believe that “‘people are the same everywhere; therefore, there are always witches and it is we, the elders, who know how witches work.’” I wonder how *they* interpret xianity?
Great story, Eve. Truly ironic.
4 July 2006, on 10:25 am
Stardust - Primary school age actually. I don’t want to be too complicated with them, just try and explain simple things like, that scientific ideas become accepted when every attempt to prove them false fails. Or, I remember we had math problems of the form 7 + [] = 11 and we were supposed to fill in the square. I recognise now that this was actually algebra and I think if the kids know this they won’t find it so daunting when the subject comes up later. Things that are simpler than their reputation suggests. And general cool stuff to hopefully spark an interest in the real world.
Any advice or suggestions at all would be welcome, but especially anything about dealing with young kids. I haven’t associated much with them since I was one and I wasn’t any good at it then.
5 July 2006, on 7:49 pm
Aesmael, I’m no expert in education, but your idea about stories to catch and keep them interested seems sound to me. I know I definitely loved stories as a kid, even if they were “educational.” Plus, I remember being intensely fascinated by how children from other cultures and times live and lived; perhaps this could be a way to open them up to history, geography, etc.? Kids are always interested in other kids…
6 July 2006, on 1:05 am
Any advice or suggestions at all would be welcome, but especially anything about dealing with young kids. I haven’t associated much with them since I was one and I wasn’t any good at it then.
Aesmael - It seems that you will have a lot of flexibility in subject matter you can choose from and that’s great. In the regular classroom setting, curriculum is more rigid. Memorization and regurgitation for standardized exams has become the norm, unfortunately. So, having a class like yours will be a wonderful opportunity for the children to explore many areas of interest. Your idea to help them understand math better is a good one, because so many need help in that area.
Eve has also provided suggestions that I myself would recommend. Kids of that age are indeed fascinated by how children from other cultures and times live and lived, and they don’t get much of that anymore in the school systems. Though I am now an atheist, I still remember being fascinated by stories of Pharaohs and ancient Egypt, Middle east and LOVED the maps in the back of my bible. I also loved to learn about all other parts of the world like Africa, India (I loved Rudyard Kipling’s stories), Europe, etc.
Another subject kids love is astronomy. How stars are formed, comets, asteroid belts, planets and their characteristics. I used to get loads of books from the library about the solar system and the universe for my own children when they were growing up and they couldn’t get anough of the subject.
Kids love visuals. Pictures, videos, 3-D models. This is a way to keep their interest.
Maybe for your first class you can get to know the kids a bit…have them introduce themselves and say what subjects they are interested in or would like to learn more about. If you get them involved from the start, they will stay interested. Well, most of them, anyway. There will always be one or two problem kids who try to ruin things for everyone and I try to nip that in the bud IMMEDIATELY. They have to know who is in charge from day one because once you lose control and respect, it is quite difficult to get it back. So, also make up some beginning ground rules and consequences. The school may have general rules you may elaborate on. I try not to be too strict, but can’t allow any monkey business or bad behavior either. The most important thing is to keep their interest and you shouldn’t have any problems. Encourage questions and class participation and never forget the quiet ones and don’t let the know-it-alls monopolize class time. You will be surprised sometimes at how smart the quiet ones might be.
I hope this has helped. Send your address to me via god@gods4suckers.net and ask Ron or Sean to forward it on to me (if they don’t mind) and I will be willing to answer any more questions if you have any or try to help with advice you might need. Good luck and have fun with that! Kids are great at that age.
6 July 2006, on 1:38 am
stardust Says:
It all started somewhere. I like to use the example of the game “Chinese Telephone” where the first person listens to a sentence whispered into his/her ear, and then whispers it to the next person, and then that person whispers it to the next person, and so on.
Funny, I was introduced to this little social lesson in elementary school almost 30 years ago. But we just called it “telephone.” I wonder where the “Chinese” comes in. I am talking Long Island around ‘76.
6 July 2006, on 6:36 am
Sean: I have heard it called either chinese whispers or just ‘telephone’ (usually from U.S. sources, according to wikipedia chinese whispers is a UK/Australian variation), maybe someone has blended the two together (fun - the name is itself an example of the phenomena).
6 July 2006, on 1:26 pm
Eve, Stardust, thank you for the advice. Mythology is definately a good idea, I loved reading the stuff at that age but it seemed like I could only get hold of the Greek or Roman ones. Well, plenty of time to get hold of others (If anyone knows a particularly good source?). Archaeology and history seem like good bets too, I especially want to introduce them to zoroastrianism.
Astronomy, no problem. It’s what I’ve been studying.
May be able to borrow some aids from the university. Encourage participation, yes. One thing I would like to do is let them set me homework and ask about something they are curious about to research each week (I figure they would enjoy the turnabout).
Trying to take the rest of your suggestions to heart too. My email should already be in the system after the Westboro video, if not I can send it again.
6 July 2006, on 3:04 pm
*sigh* I agree, Aesmael, materials on non-Greco-Roman mythology are unfortunately in in much shorter supply, but it’s getting better. There’s now tons of stuff on ancient Egypt geared to kids of all ages (I was recently pleasantly surprised by an entire display on Egypt-themed books in the children’s section of my local Barnes & Noble, for example), plus museum sites like the Cleveland Museum of Art’s CMA Kids has a whole section on Egyptomania, not to mention other cool things like arts and crafts projects.
Mythography covers Celtic mythology as well as Greco-Roman and you can post questions for experts to answer there. I haven’t used the Encyclopedia Mythica much so I’m not that familiar with it, and I don’t see a lot of visuals, but it might give you ideas and starting points. For other sources you might try National Geographic Kids and dig (TM), the online version of the children’s magazine put out by the Archaeological Institute of America.
Love the idea of your students giving *you* homework, too! As an all-too enthusiastic proponent of lifelong learning, I hope that’ll show them that education is something you engage in all through your life, not just when you’re growing up. Happy to hopefully help!
6 July 2006, on 8:53 pm
Funny, I was introduced to this little social lesson in elementary school almost 30 years ago. But we just called it “telephone.” I wonder where the “Chinese” comes in. I am talking Long Island around ‘76.
Sean - Chicago Public school system in the early 60s. I don’t have a clue how “Chinese” got into the name of it. I should look that up!
6 July 2006, on 8:58 pm
Man, is there anything that doesn’t have a Wikipedia entry?? Alas, it doesn’t explain the origin of that particular name.
6 July 2006, on 9:00 pm
PS: I guess the reason for dropping the “Chinese” by the time I was playing it in elementary school in New York is fairly obvious.
6 July 2006, on 9:01 pm
Aesmael - A good mythology book with pictures is a huge volume called “Mythology: The Illustrated Anthology of World Myth and Storytelling: General Editor, C. Scott Littleton - Duncan Baird Publishers
I found it at a local Border’s Bookstore a few years ago. It’s filled with stories, photographs and illustrations about mythologies from all over the world and at various times throughout history. Your local library probably has a wealth of books on mythology of various cultures. You could ask the librarian to help you. When raising our three kids, and for various classes I taught, I found the library sources to be quite helpful and numerous. You can find almost everything you are looking for at a library…if it is a decent one.
9 July 2006, on 2:06 pm
A decent one, aye, there’s the rub. I am quite willing to purchase books for my own collection if they look good enough, though.
Eve - to be too enthusiastic about learning is unpossible.
15 February 2007, on 5:54 pm
The eye on the back of the US 1 dollar bill could be that of the God Re or Ra - refer miniature benben stone found in priests tomb. This shows full form of Re standing in a hatchway and apparently wearing a space helmet. The Pyramid is Mount Sinai - Egyptian Mount Shennai - aka Great Pyramid.
Horus was also known as the Ever Coming Son of God - IUSU who was called IESOUS by the Greeks - Jesus. Mary comes from Hathor-Meri (aka Isis) and Mri means ‘Beloved of’. The first two chapters of Luke are shown in 4 scenes in King Solomon’s temple at Luxor, and glyphs tell more or less the same story. King David Junior’s tomb (aka Twt) has painting of the Holy Trinity on one wall and on his golden shrine is a cartouche which reads “God of All Heprew”….W is the plural letter in Egyptian - so Heprews. For more detail refer my website on Jesus/Tutankhamen and Solomon.