Amazon (Not DotCom)
10 July 2006 by Eve
Okay, time for another archetypal female figure, this one a character that the Abrahamic religions have distinctly mixed feelings toward (thanks, ChuckA):
Enter the Amazon!
We’ve probably all heard tales of this warrior woman of ancient Greek legend, ferociously independent of and militarily hostile to men, either eschewing male company completely or only mating on occasion to become pregnant. She and her fierce sisters killed, abandoned, or gave their boy children to their fathers, while rearing the girls within the Amazon culture to ensure its survival, and worshipped the war god Ares and an Asian version of the divine huntress Artemis.
Recent archaeological discoveries of warrior priestesses in Sarmatian burial sites provide strong evidence that actual Amazons may have existed. The Sarmatians descended from the Scythians, whose early contact with the Greeks inspired the classic myths, leading experts to believe that they may have observed Scythian females riding and fighting alongside the males. Let’s also not forget the women of Minoan civilization, who participated as men’s equals (and often superiors) in all aspects of society including the military, most probably impacting Greek culture as well.
Interestingly, Amazon-like figures pop up in many other times and cultures across the globe. Actual Scandinavian shield maidens made it into Norse mythology as the Valkyries, and the armed women Spanish conquistador Orellana claimed to have fought inspired the naming of the nearby Amazon River. “Giant Greek women” constituted Indian emperor Chandragupta Maurya’s personal bodyguard, while in honor of his “heroic” mother, notorious Mongol leader Genghis Khan allowed females to fight in his army.
But what do the Abrahamic religions say about military mamas? The Old Testament’s fiery Deborah, who victoriously led her people to battle, represents a rare exception in the Bible since Leviticus specifically forbids women dressing as men, which most definitely would include armor and/or weapons. That same statute condemned France’s even fierier Joan of Arc, although those wacky schizophrenic Catholics later absolved and canonized her anyway. We see those same mixed feelings in the changing definition of the word “virago” (root: the Latin vir [man]) from a “strong, brave, or warlike woman” to a “loud, violent, or ill-tempered” one.
My initial, admittedly superficial research seems to indicate that by and large the Abrahamic religions historically discourage and/or forbid females to fight in battle - but again with a few very notable examples. Israel shocked the world by incorporating women into the military early on in its modern history, and female soldiers still guard Islamic Libya’s Gadaffi to this day. Kazakh nomadic women, the ancient Sarmatians’ (and quite possibly the original Amazons’) genetic descendants, continue to take on historically “male” roles out of sheer necessity for their community’s survival in its harsh environment – despite the conventions of Islam.
Thus, our alluring Amazon has always had the ability to bust boundaries most bodaciously; most notably in the sixteenth century, Christian fiction writers drew on Homer and Vergil to bring her to life in melodramatic epics. Take lady knight Bradamante from Ariosto’s Orlando Furioso (1516) for example, arguably the most famous fighting female in European literature; her magic lance unhorses every foe against whom she wields it. Probably influenced by her, the Muslim warrior Clorinda rescues condemned lovers in Tasso’s Jerusalem Delivered (”La Gerusalemme liberata”) (1580) but dies at the hands of her Christian beloved. In Spenser’s ambitious The Faerie Queene (1590-‘96), unbeatable Britomart (my personal favorite) stands head and shoulders above her fellow male knights.
If Lilith and her seductive daughters inspired our modern “femme fatale,” then the Amazon and her warlike sisters have given us our current, well, “Amazon.” We see a lot of her lately, now become a beautiful, brainy broad who can booze, bed, and beat up as badly as any Bond – and often walk away from commitment just as easily. Despite all her outer changes, from militantly feminist and predominantly chaste to often sexually- and morally-ambiguous, the Amazon remains, above all, a fighter, a warrior on a par with men.
Perhaps she symbolizes the part of the female psyche that says, “I’m as mad as hell, and I’m not going to take this anymore!”
10 July 2006, on 8:40 pm
And what of the tale of Amazon warriors having their left breasts amputated for ease of archery? I always interpose myself into stories such as those under the assumption that some men would have been tolerated and that I, naturally, would have been one of those. And what about the love of my life, Xena: Warrior Princess? She kicked even Amazon ass. And honestly, I never for one moment picked up on any lesbian nuance in that show at all, honest.
10 July 2006, on 8:41 pm
Great post, Eve. Still digesting!
For those who have never read it, check out a remarkable short short story titled “Amazons” in Richard Selzer’s wonderful collection Confessions of a Knife.
10 July 2006, on 8:58 pm
Thanks, Sean.
Raindogzilla, there’s so much on Amazoniana that I barely scratched the surface in the post! The breast amputation motif is very interesting on several different levels and imho, is most probably symbolic (as opposed to historically accurate), representing the Amazons’ rejection of traditional femininity and assumption of male potency. After all, actual female archers throughout history have found it just as practical (and much less painful!) to simply bind their breasts to shoot their bows.
I also love “Xena,” lesbian nuances and all, but again, had to restrict myself in the post for the sheer sake of space. What exactly is it, do you think, about the concept of the Amazons that *men* find so fascinating? I know what the attraction is for women, and I can see where the idea of girl-on-girl action can fire the male imagination, but what else? Is it the allure of the dominatrix, a woman strong enough to physically subdue you, maybe?
It’s always intrigued me that dyed-in-the-cloth catholics like the Italian Ariosto and Tasso found Homer and Vergil’s Amazon images so compelling that they had to incorporate them into their writing, albeit post-Christianizing. I have a pretty good idea of what Spenser was trying to do…
10 July 2006, on 9:29 pm
Now, if you’re really up for a wild ride with Amazons, check out Heinrich Von Kleist’s Penthesilea: A Tragic Drama. Here’s just a taste from the synopsis:
An army of Amazons sets out to conquer Greek heroes for the purpose of stocking their women’s state with new female offspring. They blast into the midst of the Trojan War, confusing Greeks and Trojans alike and for a moment forcing those enemies into a terrified alliance. When Achilles, the pride and mainstay of the Greeks, and Penthesilea (Pen-te-sil-lay-uh), queen of the Amazons, meet, a chase begins….and it is the queen who is hunting Achilles, to the uncomprehending horror of the Greeks. Thus begins a tragedy of love in a world governed by the rules of war, on which “the gods look down but from afar.”
10 July 2006, on 10:09 pm
I’m a 6′2″ woman who gets catcalls with frequent mention of the word “Amazon.” One of my best friends refers to me as “my favorite Amazon goddess.” I’ve had guy friends make jokes of “Amazon angry!”
I think the appeal lies mostly in the idea of having too much woman all to one’s self. Guys seem to think conquering me would make them more of a man. Like I’m their Everest, or something.
I guess they think size matters. Who’da thunk?
10 July 2006, on 10:33 pm
The Amazon myth, legend, history- whichever you prefer, has always been intriguing to me sheerly from a prurient interest in fierce, independent women. But it’s never been about either taming that wildness or cowering before it but, rather, luxuriating in it. Hell, I’m titillated just by Julie announcing she’s 6′2″, I’ve got a thing for Gabrielle Reece and for the 6′3″ Kerri Walsh.
10 July 2006, on 10:36 pm
Thanks Eve,
You’ve finally gone and done it! You’ve opened Pandora’s Box!….[so to speak.]
[Homer Simpson:] “Mmm,…Box!” [Me:] “Oh,…THAT box!”
I guess I’ve always been a Heathen at heart.
There’s nothing quite like the Pagan Mythologies! They’re so rich with fascinating Characters, intrigue, and wild imagination. [Not like those boring Fuctard, Anal retentive, guilt ridden, 'Abrahamic Myths'...say what?]
I’m Swedish on my dad’s side, Irish on my mom’s; maybe some Viking and Celtic genes get aroused with all this! I wasn’t kidding about that Latin class comment. Ever since the Amazon ’shtick’ appeared in my 1st year Latin book [which I still have!], I’ve been curious about the real history of all this. I just never did the research, which you’ve now done, so marvelously. Thanks for following-up on that comment! You really DO have a knack!
“Umm, …Eve?…what a lovely name!…Um,…are you, just…you know; …just maybe,…sort of…you don’t mind if I… ask?…Like,…maybe;…a closet Amazon?…the idea is quite exciting!”
“I’m starting to fantasize; ….somebody stop me!”
[Sean probably will, right?]
[I'm kidding!...I think!]
10 July 2006, on 10:58 pm
Julie Says:
I’m a 6′2″ woman who gets catcalls with frequent mention of the word “Amazon.” One of my best friends refers to me as “my favorite Amazon goddess.” I’ve had guy friends make jokes of “Amazon angry!”
I think the appeal lies mostly in the idea of having too much woman all to one’s self. Guys seem to think conquering me would make them more of a man. Like I’m their Everest, or something.
I guess they think size matters. Who’da thunk?
Julie: I’m 6′6″. You could climb me instead of the other way around. What are you doing Friday?
10 July 2006, on 11:08 pm
Eve,
Bravo, I love to see people do justice to archetypal study.
Chuck,
I would tend to disagree with some of what you say- I do think the bibble has some fantastic stories… just not as entertaining as reading about fornicating deities though.
Jeez- everybody’s getting all loopy about height… lotta seschual *hic* eschitement in hya.
11 July 2006, on 12:19 am
Not that I have anything against sexual innuendo, but there’s something deeper than the mere sex appeal of the Xena archetype.
There’s a simple explanation. It’s the Patriarchal fear of women who project power. Same reason Catholics don’t like women priests. They decided that priests couldn’t marry so women couldn’t inherit property the church wanted for themselves.
Note the Episcopals today. I mean, they’re flipping out! Kind of the same way the church flipped out over Joan of Arc. You’d think women would figure out the the moral of that story really is. Kill the witch and co opt her story in our his-story.
They had to kill her. How else could they keep all the monestaries as gay brothels for the pope! Of feudalism for that matter.
How very roman, no?
11 July 2006, on 12:58 am
Sean: Julie: I’m 6′6″. You could climb me instead of the other way around. What are you doing Friday?
Probably having sex with my boyfriend. He’s 6′3″, by the way. Although I have dated guys 5′10″. My prom date (who was 5′7″) joked that if I’d worn a low-cut dress, his nose would have gotten stuck in my cleavage.
I also think there’s a stereotype factor. Like:
“I’ve had a Catholic schoolgirl.”
“Yeah, well I’ve had a 6′0″ blonde!”
Bragging rights.
11 July 2006, on 1:13 am
I love powerful women. These are the characters I enjoy to write. My favorite characters are women who go from being submissive to being the most powerful women in the universe.
Most of my female characters start out submissive but always end up throwing off the shackles and kicking all sorts of ass.
11 July 2006, on 2:19 am
Well, I’ve had a 6′1″ blonde Catholic girl, so there!
Actually, I have dated several people over six feet since my mid-20s. Before then, they were all small. I’m not sure why.
Please don’t send your bf to beat me up. I was just teasin’.
11 July 2006, on 2:21 am
Matt Says:
I love powerful women. These are the characters I enjoy to write. My favorite characters are women who go from being submissive to being the most powerful women in the universe.
Most of my female characters start out submissive but always end up throwing off the shackles and kicking all sorts of ass.
Are you related to James Cameron?
11 July 2006, on 3:26 am
Eve said: “What exactly is it, do you think, about the concept of the Amazons that *men* find so fascinating?”
I can only answer for myself on this one Eve. First I am a short guy only 5′2″ but, I wouldn’t mind being thrown around the bedroom like a ragdoll by an amazon. The most alluring aspect of the Amazons to me was and is their fierce independence. I am an independent person, I find when I am in a relationship it works best with another independent person.
11 July 2006, on 3:41 am
Sean says: Are you related to James Cameron?
That would be awesome, but sadly no.
11 July 2006, on 8:18 am
Don’t forget the most famous fictional amazon of all, Wonder Woman!
11 July 2006, on 12:13 pm
I’m pretty small, even for a girl. But I grew up playing boys hockey and played hockey in college. When people find that out they’re like “YOU?! Played hockey?!” I guess I look like somebody who would just get their ass kicked immediately.
11 July 2006, on 12:19 pm
I’m nearly a foot and a half taller than my wife.
11 July 2006, on 2:42 pm
I got thinking about all this since the original posting; and a seemingly obvious idea occurred to me. [Very Freudian, at that!]
For the men, at least, in the sexualization of later fantasies, I think it goes back to ‘babyhood’…let’s face it; being easily handled by ‘big’ mom, from the womb onward, and other ‘big’ women, in so many normal circumstances. I also remember, personally, as a kid being lovingly squeezed by big women friends of the family; one in particular…imparting ‘strength’ to the equation.
I don’t think I need to go further in any examples; you get my drift, I’m sure.
Of course, one, perhaps ‘obvious’, fact of life being that possible metaphor of: ‘We’re all like Snowflakes’ [ala comedian Lewis Black?]. This would make for an infinite variation in the ‘amplitude’ of the resulting effect on men’s pubescent/adult reactions to Amazon figures.
The probability is that almost all men have SOME vestige of fantasy, related to early ‘Amazonian-like’ childhood experience.
Alas…I can’t prove the above; but I’ve always had an attraction to related ideas.
Thanks Eve; and thanks to ALL you wonderful, big [and smaller]…lovely…Atheist…Amazons?
[Again…I kid?]
[Friendly Note: to Marcus, relating to your earlier comment, (if your reading this)…
“Jeez- everybody’s getting all loopy about height… lotta seschual *hic* eschitement in hya.”
…for what it’s worth: I’m a sober atheist!…no mind altering drugs are needed for entry into MY Fantasy World…Yeah, I’m just…‘naturally’ warped!]
11 July 2006, on 5:53 pm
Julie, I definitely see your point about bragging rights!
Raindogzilla, thank you for pointing out that the Amazon’s attraction isn’t about being tamed by or overwhelming men, but the challenge of coexisting with her as an equal on all levels (given our traditionally male-centered culture).
ChuckA, I think every woman has at least a little bit of Amazon in her and that definitely includes me. I see her when I honor my independence and self-worth, my need to speak out and take action, my instinct for self-defense whether psychological or physical, and also (curious that you mentioned our mothers as the first Amazons we encounter in our lives) my impulse to defend those that appear incapable of fighting for themselves (like children or puppies or kitties). Taking a self-defense class greatly empowered me…
Audrey, Star, and I were also just discussing a mother’s instinct to protect her children on another thread and how overwhelmingly powerful it can and should be. Maybe the woman who suppresses the Amazon in her becomes the woman who sits by and lets her *babies,* let alone herself, be abused and/or killed right before her eyes without lifting a finger to defend them.
Marcus, thanks for the props from a professional!
Da Rat Bastid, you’re right; catholics’ conflicting opinions on Joan even while she was alive and fighting prove your point. They ranged from acceptance of her short hair and men’s garb as a means of discouraging sexual molestation to indictment of her usurping what should have been a man’s job. There were a lot of irregularities during her trial, such as keeping her in a secular prison as opposed to a religious one, but history seems to condemn her supporters for not doing enough to help her (the king she put on the throne never paid the ransom that could have freed her).
It sure does look like letting her be executed and thus gotten rid of simplified matters for the church; they could then gauge public opinion and when they saw it swung so far in her favor, redeem themselves in everyone’s eyes by overturning her sentence and post-humously sainting her, a win-win for everyone - except, most conspicuously, Joan herself.
Matt, I most certainly like the fact that strength and independence in a woman as desirable seems to be emerging as the Amazon’s most powerful attraction!
And Deacon Barry, finally someone brings up the Amazon Princess supreme; which do you prefer, the Golden Age or post-Crisis version? I like both but for different reasons.
Nymphalidae, we tend to think of Amazons as tall but of course that ain’t necessarily so.
Now does anyone else think it interesting that no theists have come by to comment on this or the Lilith thread?
11 July 2006, on 6:48 pm
Golden age, Eve.
11 July 2006, on 7:10 pm
Ah, Deacon Barry, Golden Age Wonder Woman: Amazons, World War II, and a healthy dollop of BDSM to boot. Good times, good times…
12 July 2006, on 12:30 am
Wonder Woman!…Oh, yeah!
Another memory for me: The first time I read a Wonder Woman comic book, ’stumbled on’, at a grammar school buddy’s house [circa 1950], I was smitten!
[I still wonder whom it really belonged to...um...his mom?...I was with that 'buddy' at my grammar school, class of '53, reunion in 2003! Hmmm...maybe I'll call him? Pardon all the details.]
I really miss the 1970s; [for being a lot younger, of course!] including all the excitement of the Women’s Movement’s struggle for women’s equality, …and yeah!…Wonder Woman!
Speaking of that:
I’ve noticed how a lot of the, current, albeit, very young ‘gals’ seem to forget how MUCH they owe to that movement. The huge growth of Fundamentalism, during Reagan’s 1980s Reign, began the Demonization of the Feminist movement; which has resulted, I think, in a return to some of the old attitudes towards women.
[Xtian's, of course, yapping about the 'proper' place...in spite of the increase in the number of women CEOs in major roles...yada, yada.]
A more modest example:
Adult women are, AGAIN, more and more, being referred to as ‘girls’; unlike the adult men…who AREN’T referred to, as in some real old movies,…’boys’!
[I'm reminded of those old [1930s?] gangster films; you know…with James Cagney…George Raft…[Even in "Some Like It Hot"!]
Just some thoughts!
12 July 2006, on 2:37 am
Minoan women “wore robes that were open to the navel and had short sleeves and layered flounced skirts.”
Where do I sign??
Eve said:
Now does anyone else think it interesting that no theists have come by to comment on this or the Lilith thread?
Write one about homosexual archetypes in mythology and see what happens.
Hmm. Not a bad idea.
12 July 2006, on 2:56 pm
I’ve noticed that too, ChuckA. I’m thinking it might be the usual cyclical backlash against the extreme forms the movement took in some cases (e.g., discouraging/looking down on women who preferred to stay home to rear their children). Call me optimistic, but hopefully we’ll soon reach a more stable level, where one woman’s decision to remain single and pursue a high-powered career will be viewed and treated as just as valid as another’s choice to adopt a more traditional role as wife and stay-at-home mom. Of course, we’ll have to continue to fight the neo-fundies for that attitude adjustment.
Sean, Minoan culture is fascinating to me, but there’s such a wealth of detail there I think I’ll start to mine it for separate posts. It reminds me so strongly of the bonobos’ society–!
“Homosexual archetypes in mythology” - hmmm…
12 July 2006, on 6:19 pm
Dr Frederic Werthem considered Wonder Woman to be a lesbian due to her close friendship with Etta Candy and the Holliday girls - likewise he criticised the homosexual overtones of the Batman/Robin relationship. Most superheroes at that time had a junior companion for the young reader to identify with: Captain America & Bucky, Flash & Kid Flash, Green Arrow & Speedy, Aquaman & Aqualad. This is merely a modern reworking of the mythological archetypes: Achilles & Patroclus, Heracles & Hylas, Athene & Pallas, Zeus & Ganymede - all of whom have a homosexual subtext. The Greeks considered this to be perfectly normal and healthy. It was a system of patronage that helped keep society stable.
12 July 2006, on 8:33 pm
Good point about the hero and sidekick archetype, Deacon…
I think Wertham’s “Seduction of the Innocent” makes a few good points - the ones you mention among them (imho, Wonder Woman was *definitely* kinkier than simply lesbian, though). Overall, though, it stands as a good example of what a witch-hunt can still accomplish, no matter in what form it appears. EC Comics’ damn good horror lines like “Tales from the Crypt” were among the casualties, killed to calm the hysteria fomented by poor research and even skimpier evidence.
On the other hand, it *did* inspire the Dean Martin-Jerry Lewis film “Artists and Models” that pokes fun both at the comic book industry *and* Wertham’s book!