Fun with Mormons
29 August 2006 by Bob
Fugitive polygamist leader Jeffs caught
LAS VEGAS – The leader of a polygamist breakaway Mormon sect who was on the FBI’s Most Wanted List has been arrested and faces sexual misconduct charges for allegedly arranging marriages between underage girls and older men, authorities said Tuesday. Warren Steed Jeffs, 50, was taken into custody after he and two other people were pulled over late Monday by a Nevada Highway Patrol trooper on Interstate 15 just north of Las Vegas, FBI spokesman David Staretz said. The leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was wanted in Utah and Arizona on suspicion of sexual misconduct for allegedly arranging marriages between underage girls and older men. He assumed leadership of the sect in 2002 after the death of his 98-year-old father, Rulon Jeffs, who had 65 children by several women. Jeffs took nearly all his father’s widows as his own wives. He is said to have at least 40 wives and nearly 60 children. [...] Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard told KTAR-AM of Phoenix that Jeffs’ arrest is “the beginning of the end of … the tyrannical rule of a small group of people over the practically 10,000 followers of the FLDS sect.”
Oh, come on. Tyrannical? Please.
The FLDS Church split from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints when the mainstream Mormon Church disavowed plural marriage more than 100 years ago.
But that would mean negating the revelation from Smith. Is that wise? Come to think of it, how do you know when revelations are true or false, anyway?
Jeffs has been called a religious zealot and dangerous extremist by those familiar with his church.
And those who belong to his church think that Jeffs is simply doing what God commands.
29 August 2006, on 3:59 pm
It is all perspective my friend. Reminds me of a “free love” David Koresh.
29 August 2006, on 4:00 pm
Somebody needs to let our dear departed friend, Watchnj, that there’s a new and improved message from gawd- newer than his newer and improved-er quran, which replaced the newer and improved-er gospels, which…He seems to pride himself on having the freshest religion possible and Mormonism is the least far removed from it’s sell by date(yeah, yeah, I know, but the Flying Spaghetti Monster and his Loving but Noodly Appendages would blow the watch merchant’s mind).
Far as Jeffs and his ilk go, I really could care less if people are stupid enough to go around following this imbecile but when you add underage girls being essentially given to lecherous old, Mormon pervs to the mix, then I want wring his fucking neck, the perv’s necks, and the necks of those girls’ mothers for letting it happen. But, Jeebus, that’s a lot of necks to be wringing and I’m probably gonna need some help.
29 August 2006, on 4:06 pm
I’ll tell you how you discern the difference between “revelation” and “self-interest”. We need look no farther than LDS for examples
During the “great debate” about the Equal Rights Amendment (how can we forget!), Ezra Taft Benson, in his role as Primary Saint, “revealed” that the amendment must be defeated as it was contrary to gaud’s law. Revelation or self-interest?
Self-interest! It would undermine the strangle-hold LDS has over women. (Do not be fooled by piddling little fiefdoms created out of women’s groups within in the church. Just a mere sop to women’s sensibilities–the equivalence to “allowing women to clean the toilets because men are too busy doing the important work of LDS”. (Thanks, in large part, to LDS’ activism in every state, it went down to defeat, failing to pass in three-quarters of the states…)
In the late 60s-early 70s, blacks and other people of color were not allowed any authority within LDS’ heirarchy (other than “men were to be the “priest” of each family). Again, the “Grand High Poobah” (GHP) consulted gaud and “revealed” it was gaud’s desire to allow “all” men to serve equally in the LDS. Revelation or self-interest?
Self-interest! During that time, “missionaries” around the world were recruiting non-whites in huge numbers. The problem was that non-whites could attend LDS churches and “tithe” but were unable to rise to “bishop” and beyond. (Remember that this was the time of the great civil rights movement…) GHP prayed (as I recall it took him many days of seclusion) and finally received the answer from gaud: LDS does not discriminate! (A closer look shows that LDS is still as lily-white as ever.)
(This is my favorite!) Joseph Smith was married to a woman named Emma. When she reached her middle 30s, Holy Joe had a dream that gaud “approved” multiple wives. Revelation or self-interest?
Blatant self-interest! When looking at religion, it’s impossible to ignore the fact that it’s all PENIS-CENTRIC. Therefore, anything that pays worship and adoration to the man (and his wienie) accomplishes the purpose. This includes the “sacred sperm” premise that condemns masturbation, birth control, abortion, condom use and independent women. [Who knows how he convinced Emma (probably by just ignoring her objections...) but he took another wife, one who was much younger than Emma. With each year, Emma grew older and each wife grew younger. His 18th and final wife was just 16! And coincidentally named Emma.]
I researched LDS when I was considering marriage to a lovely, LDS-lapsed (JackMormon) man. My concern was that someday, his family would suck him back in. I needed to know if I could live with having an LDS spouse. My answer is an unequivocal “NO! And Hell NO! And Over my dead body NO!!!”
29 August 2006, on 4:30 pm
And IMHO, John Mark Karr looks LDS. (Even though he converted to catholicism in 2001. What was he before? I googled and failed to find an answer. The MSM dissected so much of his life, you would think that would be discovered.)
Pervs and little girls (and boys, too)…
29 August 2006, on 6:41 pm
Some came by my house a few months ago. Bad luck that my mom got there first.
29 August 2006, on 6:48 pm
At the very basic human level these people have only one thing on their minds. Sex. Their entire lives devoted to procreation and building families. Driving away male competition. And having whatever they want when they want it.
I saw the expose on Jeffs about 2 months ago. I felt really sorry for the women who were his wives. They caught them on film and the one was saying “Go away and leave us alone all you do is call us stupid and tell us we dress funny”. She was truly in a bad way. The problem is they are not too bright and they do dress funny. Their fantasy world has ended and they are lost. jeffs is truly a tweaker he manipulated those people into covering for him and had the local law enforcement involved in protection of his property and possessions (women).
The whole ordeal was like something out of twilight zone episode. The black problem for LDS was solved when Benson(?) had a revelation that really black people turn white in heaven so it was OK.
29 August 2006, on 8:07 pm
Hey guys, first post at a new location. Just moved up for college (majoring in Biological Engineering) at Utah State University.
Anyway, I must say that the reasons listed above are exactly why I left the mormon religion. I thought it was far too much of a coincidence that blacks and other minorities just “happened” to be allowed to recieve the priesthood through “revelation” just as the civil rights movement became big in the US.
Especially since mormons supposedly don’t believe in the original sin bit–well, they still believe that Adam sinned by eating the fruit (which is a moronic myth), but they believe (according to their second Article of Faith) that “Mankind will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression”. The “punished for their own sins” bit is the part that gets me–it’s a nice idea and all, definitely a step up from mainstream Christianity. But here’s the catch–they don’t REALLY advocate that belief. For example, the supposed reason that blacks couldn’t recieve the priesthood is that they’re the cursed descendants of Kane. Isn’t keeping them from recieving the priesthood punishing the children for the sins of their fathers? Doesn’t that go against the dearly-held mormon principle of free will? Further, doesn’t it violate the “punished for their own sins” clause in their second Article of Faith?
The whole religion is filled with such contradictions.
29 August 2006, on 10:21 pm
Becker is a tv series with Ted Danson as DR. Becker. He is a non believer. Scene: Two guys at the door asking him if he is going to heaven. He says “are you going to be there”? They say “oh yes”. He slams the door in their face and says “No Thanks”.
Reminded me of the Mormons. They are nice people until you get to know what their beliefs are about then it is just too fucking weird knowing that they have these fantasies. And are over the age of 15. And it isn’t science fiction. And and and…Well I guess I could say that about most religions.
30 August 2006, on 12:30 am
I work at a large resort hotel in southern Ut, that is Mormon owned. Copies if the BOOK OF MORON… Mormon, are available everywhere. What people don’t know is that you can’t understand the LDS worldview any better after reading that book than before.
For the newbies:
1.Gaud wass a human being once, play your cards right and you can be a gaud too.
2.American Indians are the lost tribes of Abraham. (huh?)
3. All churches are a lie (well, they got that right) but Moronism (oops). If you are not a Moron, you ar going to hell, but its Moron hell, and its not that bad. But you’ll never make gaudhood.
4. Gauds’s name is Elohin (sp?)and he has two sons, Jehova (you know him as Jeebus) and Lucifer. At a board meeting when the creation of the world was being discussed, Lucifer suggested that human be created without free will to avoid all this belief shit. Jeebus (the good brother) poo pooed this idea, and the result was the war in heaben. As a result, Lucifer became the devil, and his spirit followers came to earth as demons. Jebus had spirits on his side too, and they got o earth as WHITE people. The fence sitting sprits became
black people. BTW… this is not racis.
5. Since no true church exsisted until the early 1800’s, people have a chance to get in on the deal by proxy. If you are related to a living Moron, your in.Thats what all the worry about geneology is all about. OR…. a small child can be babtized in your name, and everythings Jake.
6. When you die, your met by gaud and he offers his hand to shake. If you don’t do the hadshake right, the deals off.
7. This was all discovered by Joseph Smith when he was 14. Or 16 in another account. Or 17 in a third telling.
8> Oh yea… and gaud care a lot about your underwear.
30 August 2006, on 12:48 am
Oh, gaud, I forgot about the sacred underwear!!! How could I do that? My sisters-in-law all wear them. And the 350-pound woman I worked with (I didn’t know they made those things that big…)
Part of my research was reading a book titled, “Secret Ceremonies”, by a lapsed moron (now you got me doing it!) woman. For her bravery, she has had to endure years of abuse by “devout” church slaves. But she knew it wouldn’t be easy…
Hallooo, stupid people! It’s now 2006! Wake up and get over yourselves!
30 August 2006, on 6:52 am
One of my ancestors wrote the Mormon Bible, as the story goes in my family. Spaulding ( I don’t know his first name) wrote a fiction book and was out on the stump, selling it from town to town. Holy Joe heard parts of the book read, bought it, and lo and behold had his “revelations” that eeriely match the book Spaulding wrote. The next time the Mormons are at your door, ask them about the “Spaulding Papers.”
30 August 2006, on 9:11 am
I thought that Joseph Smith’s first wife refused to go along with the ‘revelation’ about polygamy, seeing it for the self-serving lie it was. She, with some others who saw through the scheme, left and started their own Mormon church.
It’s been a while since I read it, so maybe I am remembering wrong, but this was in Under the banner of heaven : a story of violent faith by Jon Krakauer.
30 August 2006, on 9:54 am
Yup, and eventually the split formed the RLDS church. They also believed that the next prophet should be Joe’s direct descendant, not just some appointed person…unfortunately they ran out of direct descendants, so now they’re back where they started.
30 August 2006, on 10:46 am
I have family that are LDS and they’ve been working on me for years to become a member ( although the pressure has subsided since my cousins all have oodles of kids now and their heavenly family is taking shape). When I ask questions about their beliefs, the answers are vague and elusive at best. When my cousins got married (sealed) in the temple only parents and “special” people were allowed in which makes me wonder whether they’re sacrificing goats or parading around in their blessed underwear inside the temple. I inquired once about what happened to the golden tablets that Joe Smith supposedly had; after all an artifact from 175 years ago of that importance should be still around. I was told “god took it back”. So I asked why an omnipotent being would take back such irrefutable proof at the dawn of the scientific age when people were actually begining to seek answers about the world around them. That got them all stirred up but they couldn’t really answer the question because “god hadn’t revealed the answer” to them. I have asked other questions regarding their beliefs but I usually get answers that are based on “leap of faith” or “it wiil be revealed to you after you join the church”.
As anyone with reasonable intellegence will tell you, it’s never good to find out the details after you’re committed – but that’s what LDS would like you to do. So question them at every turn and make those naive 19 year old guys that show up at your door squirm with a good atheistic debate. (Mess with them really well and they will mark your house off as hostile). And if they offer to help have them clean your gutters – And point out to them while they’re up on the ladder that that may be as close to heaven as they’ll ever get.
30 August 2006, on 12:04 pm
“god took it back”
uhhhh… yea.
When you ask why… well gaud don’t like to be tested, is the stock answer. Never mind that he sees nothing wrong with testing us with things like fossil records.
“God put those fossils here to test our faith. ” Well, I flunked out again.
As to the subject of “plural marriage”. The “Mother” Church changes its history like the Ministry of Truth in the novel 1984. NOW the offical word is that Uncle Joe married those women for thier protection. It was the custom then to marry widows so there would be a big strong man around to protect them.
The record seems to show that an awful lot of women became widowed between the ages of 14 and 16.
And still do.
30 August 2006, on 1:46 pm
Another popular excuse is that they married to ensure the financial well-being of the girls–a nice sentiment and all, but it doesn’t work that way–poverty is worsened by polygamy, since there’s only one working man trying to provide for 13+ wives who aren’t allowed to do anything but stay at home.
Anyway, once I had a seminary teacher tell me that the reason fossils were here is because this earth is “recycled” and gawd created it out of bits of his other projects, and dinosaur fossils are just pieces of his last creations–which doesn’t make the least bit of sense, since if this planet was created out of chunks of other planets, then the fossils wouldn’t be in such nice, progressive, chronological layers. We also wouldn’t be able to trace the lineage of dinosaurs into modern creatures, but we can–crocodiles are still remarkably similar to their ancestors from several million years ago, and we can trace the small changes all the way back to those old fossils, which we shouldn’t be able to if gawd just magicked them there and created crocodiles from scratch.
When I called the seminary teacher on that and asked the dreaded, “why”, he said I ought to pray about it. Since this was back when I was just barely questioning church lessons, I actually did go and pray about it, earnestly even. I didn’t get an answer, though, so I asked the teacher again and he pulled the famous cop-out: “You just don’t have enough faith”. When I wasn’t satisfied with that answer, he said, “Maybe gawd’s just testing you.”
Moronic.
30 August 2006, on 6:46 pm
Joe
I remember hearing about the Spaulding papers in the early 70’s It caused quite a stir in some communities when it was being profiled in the news. It just so happens that the news of that issue suddenly ended. One day people are talking about it and within a week it is over. No more news, nothing at all no follow up even. Weird as pajamas on a snake.
30 August 2006, on 11:43 pm
My best friend used to be Methodist. And normal. In 1994, some Mormon elders (i.e., boys) came by her house. They let them in. They kept coming back, they kept letting them in. I was there for all of this, but I was allowed to retreat to the back bedroom while they converted her entire family (I stayed there while my parents were at work during the summer). Within 3 months, all four members of her family had reached “acolyte” (??) status, or something similar. There was a bunch of studying and meetings, etc. Eventually they became full fledged members. However, the only time she saw Mormons was at church. Otherwise, she was with me (atheist) and our two Catholic friends. Religion was never part of our friendship except weddings and funerals. Everything was fine for years; nothing weird happened. We all went to college, graduated, got jobs, and were still friends (though geographically separated). We got together for a girls’ weekend about 18 months ago in her home. When we arrived, we were informed for the first time that she was engaged. This was news to us, though it had happened months before. Not only was she engaged, but to a person we had never met, though she claimed he was her youth leader for years….That sentence should bother you. It bothered me when she said it. He’s only 6-7 years older, but it is still odd. It’s odd that we didn’t know him, we’d never met him. She claimed she’d always “had a thing” for him. For those who don’t know, Mormons can ONLY marry other Mormons, though she dated many non-Mormons previously. I still don’t even know his name.
Of course, it was a temple wedding so we weren’t allowed…at our best friend’s wedding. It’s a little known fact, but she told me that during the temple ceremony she would pledge to obey her husband on penalty of death. Any religion requiring you to pledge allegience to someone or face death should send up warning signals (though it will be obvious to you guys). The big day came, she was married in the temple, she had a reception for those who couldn’t attend the wedding, and that’s the last I’ve heard from or seen of her. Literally. One of my friends said she is moving to South Carolina, to live near her husband’s family. These are all classic signs of spousal abuse. And there’s nothing I can do. She is entirely brainwashed into believing that this is all a good thing.
If raised in that system, the belief that this pledge was binding would be real. And perhaps in the FLDS (?) it wasn’t a threat of death, but a fact. Spousal abuse runs rampant in religious families, especially Mormons. Nothing would surprise me about them. I went to her church a few times to better understand my friend and they seemed harmless, but there was an underlying, ever-present creepiness during the service. And not just the normal icky feeling religious services give-off.
31 August 2006, on 7:20 pm
Taylor: Another popular excuse is that they married to ensure the financial well-being of the girls–a nice sentiment and all, but it doesn’t work that way–
Imho, not even a “nice sentiment;” it’s a great excuse to wriggle out of paying for a female to be educated and trained to support herself and thus be truly independent of men. Are there really women who swallow this crap? (Purely rhetorical question; of course I know there are – it just continues to boggle my mind!)