Multiple-Choice God
18 September 2006 by Stardust
This is from the Opinion page of the LA Times online. It’s what we have been asking Xians again and getting no answers. If you put them all into an arena, they would all fight amongst themselves for eternity arguing who is a “True Xian” and who is not. I don’t know why they had to mention atheism in this, except that I suspect that maybe the author is an atheist and making a point while staying low-keyed? (Click on cartoon to enlarge.)
New survey reveals that Americans believe in four basic types of deity.
September 17, 2006‘IN GOD WE TRUST” it says on the penny, and a new survey of religious attitudes supports that sentiment. According to “American Piety in the 21st Century,” a survey conducted for Baylor University by the Gallup Organization, 85% to 90% of Americans say “yes” when asked: “Do you, personally, believe in God?”
But the study went further by asking respondents what sort of God they believed in. The results put the perennial debate over the role of religion in public life in a new light.
The survey identifies four conceptions of God, which it labels A, B, C and D.
A is the Authoritarian God, worshiped by 31.4% of respondents. This deity is highly involved, responsible for Earthly events such as tsunamis or economic upturns and “capable of meting out punishment to those who are unfaithful or ungodly.”
B is the Benevolent God, the choice of 23% of respondents. He also is involved in human affairs but isn’t in the smiting business. This God is “mainly a force of positive influence in the world and is less willing to condemn or punish individuals.”
C is the Critical God, who “really does not interact with the world.” But believers in this God — 16% of the sample — still watch their Ps and Qs because God C “views the current state of the world unfavorably” and will punish evildoers “in another life.”
Last but not least is D, the Distant God. Twenty-four percent of respondents endorsed — “embraced” is probably too strong a word — this version of the deity, “a cosmic force which set the laws of nature in motion” but has no interest in human activities.
Finally, there are the atheists, who accounted for 5.2% of respondents. (They aren’t dignified with an abbreviation. F for faithless?)
The diversity of beliefs about God is reflected in political as well as religious convictions. According to the survey, 17.3% of believers in a Benevolent God would abolish the death penalty, compared with only 12.1% of those who worship an Authoritarian God. When the issue is prayer is public schools, believers in God A are overwhelmingly supportive — 90.9% — and believers in God B less so (79%). Among believers in a Critical God, 69.4% supported school prayer. Among believers in a Distant God, however, only 46.5% supported school prayer.
As interesting as those correlations are, the overlap between categories suggests that all-or-nothing propositions such as “school prayer” or the display of the Ten Commandments on public property might mean very different things to different people. A believer in a Benevolent or Distant God might see school prayer as positive because God is benign or at least unthreatening, while a commandments proponent who believes in an Authoritarian God might see it as a way to strike fear into the hearts of schoolchildren — a prospect that might appall the believer in God B.
If it does nothing else, the Baylor survey should lead to more sophisticated reporting about what sort of God Americans want to welcome back to the public square: A, B, C, D — or none of the above?
18 September 2006, on 10:55 am
I will take D, the distant gawd. Frankly, the guy scares the living shit out of me, and I would much rather be left alone.
18 September 2006, on 11:21 am
Gawd D seems an awful lot like the gawd of Deists, Thomas Jefferson and Tom Paine. Given that neither believed in the divinity of Jeebus, perhaps that very question ought to have been asked of those who chose the Distant Deity- “Do you also believe in teh Jeebus?”
I also wonder how many atheists/agnostics might reply in the affirmative to the initial belief question, just from being unwilling to “out” themselves to the person asking- or just to hedge their bets.
Other questions I wish had been included in the survey:
1)Do you believe that America was founded as a “Christian nation”?
2)Do you believe that God created the Universe 6000 years ago?
3)Do you believe there is such a thing as the “Homosexual Agenda”?
4)Do you respect and admire Pat Robertson? James Dobson? Fred Phelps? D. James Kennedy? Kent Hovind? Ken Ham? Jerry Falwell? Gary Bauer?
Answering “yes” to any of these questions would qualify as voluntary committal to the closest sanitarium. Answering “yes” to Phelps would trigger the “16 Ton Weight”.
18 September 2006, on 12:28 pm
I didn’t know that UFOs, Bigfoot, and Trekkies were Xian denominations. Good to know.
I liked the Inquisition -> Monty Python flowchart boxes.
The best was the Anglican offshots: “Straight” and “Gay”. Not an official designation, but a very real one.
18 September 2006, on 3:17 pm
I’ve seen surveys where 45% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creation. That is just plain old sick. Lots of Orthodox Jews believe this too.
When broken down though, 65% of those who didn’t finish high school are YECs vs. only 25% who completed college. The YECs who finish college are probably Christian college grads or NFL football players.
They left out a category. The trickster God. He is the one who put all the scientific evidence on this planet that refutes the Ark, the historical Jesus, the Young Earth, and made every scientific discovery in biology look like evolution is a fact.
18 September 2006, on 3:40 pm
I can’t get - no bree-vee-A-shun
I can’t get - no, bree-vee-A-shun
Well, hell, who needs an abbreviation, when we have the truth? God, that sounded arrogant, didn’t it?
Link below to the Opus comic strip from yesterday’s paper, if you didn’t see it already. Very understated and lovely.
http://www.comics.com/wash/opus/
18 September 2006, on 6:20 pm
Catherine: Thanks for the wonderful Opus cartoon. I’ve missed him.
I see an allegory there: I am the atheist penguin (read: Democrat/activist), protecting the rights of the fundie (from himself).
But if the fundie was awake, he’d be doing everything in his power to restrict mine. (sigh)
Guess Life isn’t fair, after all…
18 September 2006, on 6:37 pm
[...] via God Is For Suckers. [...]
18 September 2006, on 6:43 pm
I seem to have found a bunch of totally stupid people! But that’s fine because it really won’t be long until you see for your self. That’s right The world is comming to an end. What you think I am ofended because you don’t belive? A man could be raised from the dead and you wouldn’t believe Him.
Yes to all the questions!!! Ya’ll are a bunch of Darwin-followers. In his book he starts off with “let us sapose” over 800 tims because that’s what you do when you are lieing but want people to believe. I don’t care if you do belive me because I know for a fact God does not love everyone. I only love the who so evers. John 3:16
PS. my fone number is 832-867-5309 if anyone wants to call me up and prey w/me!
18 September 2006, on 7:48 pm
Tara, get thee a spellchecker and an education.
18 September 2006, on 7:50 pm
“I seem to have found a bunch of totally stupid people!”
Right here, on their knees next to me!
“But that’s fine because it really won’t be long until you see for your self. That’s right The world is comming to an end.”
“And now, THE END IS NEAR!”
“What you think I am ofended because you don’t belive? A man could be raised from the dead and you wouldn’t believe Him.”
What man, where? Did you check his pulse?
Yes to all the questions!!! Ya’ll are a bunch of Darwin-followers. In his book he starts off with “let us sapose” over 800 tims because that’s what you do when you are lieing but want people to believe.”
That’s what one does when formulating a theory, darling, and, I’m pretty sure Darwin never spelled suppose “sapose”.
“I don’t care if you do belive me because I know for a fact God does not love everyone. I only love the who so evers. John 3:16.”
Tara, we don’t give a fuck what you believe- though we certainly could give you some lessons on the message of your supposed messiah.
18 September 2006, on 7:53 pm
LOL, you put all the atheists in the world in the same room and they all can’t agree on the very definition of atheism. Some have defined atheism as the non-belief in God while others define atheism as the belief that there is no God. Julian Baggini, Paul Edwards, Jeff Jay Lowder, Doug Krueger say that atheism is the belief that there is no God. Michael Martin, Dan Barker, George Smith say that atheism is the non-belief in God. So, which is it? There is no consensus among atheists about the very definition of atheism.
18 September 2006, on 8:04 pm
See, Frank, atheism isn’t a religion. There are no rules, no canon, no pope, and no imaginary friend. You and the fundies like you can’t seem to agree on what the one gawd you bow to wants, demands, or even consists of- that’s a real problem, Frank, joining a club that keeps changing the rules on you.
Literal, inerrant, historical, metaphorical, old testament, new testament, jehovah, yahweh, allah, moses, mohammed, jeebus, church, tabernacle, synagogue, mosque, make up your motherfucking minds, fuckwits. Is it any wonder it takes a mentally challenged college student- who’s grasp on reality is so tenuous as to claim ad hominems and non sequiturs as arguments won- to buy into this bullshit? I think not. Now, let’s play hide and go fuck yourself.
18 September 2006, on 8:04 pm
Tara,
I may be a novice to all this new fangled internets tubes technology, but I’m fairly certain that putting your phone number in a post is an ass backwards idiotic thing to do.
18 September 2006, on 8:07 pm
Frank
Lol right back at ya. Christiansand god believers alike cant agree on anything, hence so many fueding sects. At least atheists arent trying to kill eachother and blowing shit up.
18 September 2006, on 8:22 pm
Did someone fuck around with #8 comment by Tara or is she really that poor of a speller, illiterate and apparently uneducated?
18 September 2006, on 8:25 pm
I’m pretty sure that it’s all 100%Tara, except maybe the phone number.
18 September 2006, on 8:26 pm
I see Frank the annoying Manata worshipper is back again too and having nothing intelligent to say, as usual.
Yes, Tara…don’t you know you should NEVER post your phone # on the internet? Good gawd!
18 September 2006, on 8:40 pm
Frank, all Atheists can agree on what what God looks like, what he smells like, what makes him happy, what makes him sad, and whether or not he has an asshole.
18 September 2006, on 8:46 pm
Every once in awhile I read something like # 8 Tara. Well I get all giggly inside and I begin to salivate. What do you think makes that happen? I might add that it is a rather pleasant feeling and I can begin to feel a certain glee come over me. HaHaHaHsaHaHaHa.
P.S. Those 800 tims? Was that in the first Darwin book about natural selection of tims? just asking.
18 September 2006, on 8:47 pm
Now this is why I come back everyday - to see what gawd tosses to the lions!
Frank and Tara, I would ask if you’re both just stupid but you’ve already answered that question.
Frank, I’ve seen 2 baptists in the same room that couldn’t agree on the sermon they just heard so your point about atheists is moot.
Tara, you ought to pray for a dictionary and the ability to write a meaningful argument before you start crowing about what god loves and doesn’t love. As it stands, you appear to be knowledgable about nothing.
Both of you seem to come from the mind-set that you know what god has in store for non-believers. Since your belief in the omnipotent one seems to include the punishment of those who don’t believe, you shouldn’t be gloating that big-guy-in-the-sky will be dishing out ass-whippings and eternal damnation to all of the sinners. I will also remind you that big-guy-in-the-sky’s son also said something about “those without sin should cast the first stone”. Hmmmmm…I bet you’re not invited to the stoning either.
With idiots like the two of you doing god’s work I have to wonder what god is hoping to prove to the rest of us - that only morons believe?
18 September 2006, on 9:00 pm
Jimmer, I’m almost positive that the 800 “Tims” were, in fact, 400 pairs of Timberlandtm trekking boots Chuck took along on the HMS Beagle for exploring- the Galapagos are very rocky and he couldn’t afford a turned ankle as Ace bandages weren’t invented yet.
18 September 2006, on 9:10 pm
This post actually reminds me of that great part of Russell’s Autobiography:
18 September 2006, on 9:13 pm
There is no consensus among atheists about the very definition of atheism.
Ah, yes, definitions…
Necessary and sufficient conditions for a term…
Mathematical attitudes applied to ordinary language…
What a concept…
How cute…
18 September 2006, on 9:30 pm
With idiots like the two of you doing god’s work I have to wonder what god is hoping to prove to the rest of us - that only morons believe?
Russman, I was LMAO reading your comment! (#20) This was great! LOL!
I found this quote in a comment thread a few months ago and kept it:
“He [god] seems way too cowardly to tell me to my face that he is real and what’s more, he has to send people in my path, many of whom are just the most arrogant, argumentive, self-righteous, judgemental sons-of-bitches imaginable, to ‘witness’ to me.”
(I would add stupid, illiterate and uneducated to the list — or in short…asshats.)
18 September 2006, on 9:36 pm
During the war, he was imprisoned for six months due to an article he had written in favour of the peace. On arrival, the prison warder “had to take particulars about me. He asked my religion and I replied ‘agnostic’. He asked how to spell it, and remarked with a sigh: ‘Well, there are many religions, but I suppose they all worship the same God.’ This remark kept me cheerful for about a week.” (p.257)
Oh, Bob, thanks for that, it’s really wonderful. I must read the whole work. And “1984,” again, and the new Dawkins, whenever it comes up on reserve at the library. Has anyone else read it yet?
Anyone hear Olbermann’s show tonight? Nothing about atheism, but really hard on Bush for being a, you know, dickhead. Not that he said that; he talked about the attack on thought and words, etc. Good heavens, the man quotes Voltaire. Does Bush even know who Voltaire is? (No answer necessary.) I hope he has a bodyguard. (Keith, not W)
18 September 2006, on 9:38 pm
To add to my last comment above…notice how these xian lurkers never join in any type of intellectual or serious discussions we are having about current events, war, history, etc. I guess that is because they are only “programmed” to respond to criticism about their Jeebus and gawd delusions.
18 September 2006, on 9:43 pm
Thanks for the link Bob. I have to put Russell’s Autobiography on my reading list.
18 September 2006, on 10:27 pm
RDZ
Ah yeah now I remember More of that tim character here. But beware if there are 800 then we are in trouble. Or are they on our side? HMMMM?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKBqLnRZIG0
18 September 2006, on 10:27 pm
“I seem to have found a bunch of totally stupid people!”
Says the troll who can’t spell worth squat.
Or come up with any sort of argument, or even a worthy point.
“The world is comming to an end.”
In how many years? Give us a number, please. One year? Ten years? Four and a half billion years (I could agree with the last one)? This statement has been shouted from the lungs of insane people for at least 2000 years.
18 September 2006, on 10:37 pm
“The world is comming to an end.”
Even if all humans killed each other, the planet earth would rebound and survive…at least as long as the sun lasts.
18 September 2006, on 10:54 pm
Would everybody please go and watch this disgusting fearmongering that I just had the dubious honour of watching on my local CBS affiliate. It’s the work of this bunch:
“Progress for America (PFA) (a 501c4) and its affiliate Progress for America Voter Fund (PFA-VF) (a 527 committee) are national tax-exempt organizations. The PFA was, from the beginning, “closely associated” with the Bush administration, the Republican National Committee and “their consultants.”
PFA was established in 2001 to support George W. Bush’s “agenda for America.” The PFA Voter Fund, which was set up in 2004, raised $38 million in support of Bush’s 2004 election bid.
Progress for America, a “friends of the party” organization “operated by Tony Feather, the former political director of Bush-Cheney 2000 and a close friend of White House political adviser Karl Rove, is described by some Republicans as a new group dedicated to corralling outlawed party soft money,” Steve Weismann, Associate Director for Policy at The Campaign Finance Institute wrote January 28, 2003.”
18 September 2006, on 11:02 pm
Sorry, but the analogies were just way too good…
I seem to have found a bunch of totally stupid people!
How evangelical!
But that’s fine because it really won’t be long until you see for your self. That’s right The world is comming to an end.
How evangelical!
I don’t care if you do belive me because I know for a fact God does not love everyone.
How evangelical!
…if anyone wants to call me up and prey w/me!
“Prey!”…
How positively evangelical!…
This one really has to go on my office wall…
18 September 2006, on 11:10 pm
Tara, why is it that Christians can’t ever seem to be able to spell?
And I know I’ve said this before, but it is YOU who will find out for yourself! When great Cthulhu rises from the depths of the ocean, when the stars are right, you will die screaming in his presence!
Join us now, Tara, before it is too late.
18 September 2006, on 11:25 pm
you guys are all idiots god is are one and only hope, and for you not to love him for giving up his son for you and not showing any sympathy to him.
19 September 2006, on 12:09 am
Definition of “prey”– 1: to raid for booty 2: to seize and devour prey 3: to have a harmful or wearing effect
Hey, Tara, what are you going to suggest we “prey” upon? Doesn’t really seem like a good xian activity. Are you sure your god wants you to prey?
There’s another god category: The Preying God. And he’s got his BBQ all fired up ready to grill.
19 September 2006, on 12:22 am
Finally, there are the atheists, who accounted for 5.2% of respondents. (They aren’t dignified with an abbreviation. F for faithless?)
What’s wrong with the next alphabetical character “E” for the atheist respondents? E for EVIDENCE REQUIRED!
19 September 2006, on 2:40 am
How about “E” for Enlightened?
19 September 2006, on 3:12 am
As usual, the trollers keep proving their ignorance and stupidity.
Catherine: “Anyone hear Olbermann’s show tonight?”
Yes…I saw it in the repeat showing…
I think it’s appropriate that Keith ends his show with that famous line: “Goodnight, and good luck!”; It seems somewhat obvious…to me, at least…that Olbermann’s on his way to becoming the Edward R. Morrow of our time. In my opinion, if he survives staying on the network while making these, articulate, perceptive, and somewhat ‘brave’ critical comments, its probably because there exists just enough agreement with his views amongst the MSNBC ‘Heirarchy’ to counterbalance any Right Wing, or Bush Administration outrage.
I’m curious to see if he makes any comments on the contradictory insanity of the Muslim vs.Pope controversy.
El Caeda: “Whaddaya mean my jhad beliefs are full of ‘sword’-id violence…I’ll cut your head off for saying that…maybe even scratch your eyes out!”…yada, yada…
Then again, regarding THIS post…
Just my Opinion: “RELIGIONS ARE, BASICALLY…from their foundations…IRRATIONAL, SCHIZOPHRENIC, NONSENSE…WHICH MAY INSTIGATE AND EVEN BE AN UNRECOGNISED, PRIME CAUSE OF THE WORLD’S INSANITY!…
Perhaps they’re similar to a mental Virus…sorta like…the E Coli of the mind [?]…and like the latest “Infected Fresh Spinach” News story…
A little Offstage FAR Right scene:
‘Pope-eye’: “Iam whatIam!…he, he, he…bless, bless, bless…heil, heil, heil!”
Muslim: “Shut up, you shvine-pig, former Inquisitional, pointy hat, old infidel!…
Apologize…or I’ll use my sword to slit your…’non-born again’ [and as Jerry Falwell would say, not truly 'saved'], scrawny, turkey-like, throat! You pompous, silly old goat!…I mean…Turkey-goat?…So THERE!…
And now…for the oral Sex!…
THEN…I’ll blow myself up!…
or maybe I’ll just blow myself!”
Sorry ’bout that…what was I saying?…Oh yeah:
MY ADVICE TO THE FUNDIE TROLLS: “Throw it [Religion] away!…Don’t ‘Eat’ it!…Eeeeew…Yuck!…Ptooey!…Blech…[maybe even Barf?]…!!!”
INSTEAD [I know it's a tall order!]:…LEARN TO READ & SPELL…learn Logic, Philosophy…read about OTHER mythologies?…learn History…learn Math, Science and the Scientific Method, etc…learn to Observe MUCH more carefully…and perhaps, while doing all that…[Um...Yes...even whilst rubbing your stomach AND chewing gum!]…perhaps, most importantly…try to THINK more objectively, and critically!…
And…yeah…Even watching Keith Olbermann, might help!
“OK, I’m outa here…
“Goodnight sweet GifSers, and good luck!”
19 September 2006, on 4:18 am
Raindogzilla Says:
September 18th, 2006 at 8:04 pm
See, Frank, atheism isn’t a religion. There are no rules, no canon, no pope, and no imaginary friend. You and the fundies like you can’t seem to agree on what the one gawd you bow to wants, demands, or even consists of- that’s a real problem, Frank, joining a club that keeps changing the rules on you.
Literal, inerrant, historical, metaphorical, old testament, new testament, jehovah, yahweh, allah, moses, mohammed, jeebus, church, tabernacle, synagogue, mosque, make up your motherfucking minds, fuckwits. Is it any wonder it takes a mentally challenged college student- who’s grasp on reality is so tenuous as to claim ad hominems and non sequiturs as arguments won- to buy into this bullshit? I think not. Now, let’s play hide and go fuck yourself.
All this venting of anger, yet you haven’t even begun to touch on what I said earlier. Figures.
say no to christ Says:
September 18th, 2006 at 8:07 pm
Frank
Lol right back at ya. Christiansand god believers alike cant agree on anything, hence so many fueding sects. At least atheists arent trying to kill eachother and blowing shit up.
Sure, they have. Plenty of atheists killed atheists. Not only were theists killed in atheistic regimes (Pol Pot, Stalin, etc.) but they also murdered atheists. Check your history.
stardust Says:
September 18th, 2006 at 8:26 pm
I see Frank the annoying Manata worshipper is back again too and having nothing intelligent to say, as usual.
Well, an intelligent person should have at least replied to my argument. *SHRUGS* You didn’t.
The Atheist Jew Says:
September 18th, 2006 at 8:40 pm
Frank, all Atheists can agree on what what God looks like, what he smells like, what makes him happy, what makes him sad, and whether or not he has an asshole.
Well, if you say that atheists agree on what God looks like or smells like they aren’t very bright. Because God isn’t physical.
Russman Says:
September 18th, 2006 at 8:47 pm
Now this is why I come back everyday - to see what gawd tosses to the lions!
LOL, You guys are more like pussy cats really.
Frank and Tara, I would ask if you’re both just stupid but you’ve already answered that question.
You never asked it, stupid.
Frank, I’ve seen 2 baptists in the same room that couldn’t agree on the sermon they just heard so your point about atheists is moot.
LOL, yet they have an agreeable theology - baptists! I guess, your point is irrelevant.
Tara, you ought to pray for a dictionary and the ability to write a meaningful argument before you start crowing about what god loves and doesn’t love. As it stands, you appear to be knowledgable about nothing.
Well, actually, it seems you have that problem since you think two baptists have different views on everything despite the fact that they are theologically baptists.
Both of you seem to come from the mind-set that you know what god has in store for non-believers.
I didn’t mention that at all in this blog. Talk about not being knowledgable!
Since your belief in the omnipotent one seems to include the punishment of those who don’t believe, you shouldn’t be gloating that big-guy-in-the-sky will be dishing out ass-whippings and eternal damnation to all of the sinners. I will also remind you that big-guy-in-the-sky’s son also said something about “those without sin should cast the first stone”. Hmmmmm…I bet you’re not invited to the stoning either.
Totally irrelevant.
With idiots like the two of you doing god’s work I have to wonder what god is hoping to prove to the rest of us - that only morons believe?
As we’ve seen that isn’t the case.
*SIGH* Is this the best you guys can do?
Frank
19 September 2006, on 7:28 am
Frank says:
Well, if you say that atheists agree on what God looks like or smells like they aren’t very bright. Because God isn’t physical.
******************
Prove it.
19 September 2006, on 7:55 am
“Because God isn’t physical.”
Hmmmn, not physical. What could he be then? A thought perhaps? Product of imagination? Character in a story? Invention of those terrified of death? Inaginary savior in a death-denying culture’s desperate grasp for Ultimacy? I could go on…..
19 September 2006, on 7:56 am
OOps, I meant “imaginary”.
19 September 2006, on 9:30 am
Well, an intelligent person should have at least replied to my argument. *SHRUGS* You didn’t.
Frank…You are like Teddy Ruxpin with your pre-programmed comments. You think you have an argument when you DON’T. You have a DELUSION Frank…free yourself while you are still a COLLEGE STUDENT.
19 September 2006, on 9:38 am
Tara Honey, Did I hear the word ‘prey’?
I’m a predator so when do we start?
19 September 2006, on 9:54 am
Frank..
Define god in detail, I dare you.
19 September 2006, on 10:15 am
Define god in detail, I dare you.
I second that, Frank.
19 September 2006, on 10:32 am
Frank said “Because God isn’t physical.”
You are exactly correct on this one Frank, because god is a figment of human imagination.
19 September 2006, on 10:52 am
I think I can sum up the general view of a theist’s god with this little ditty:
He knows when you’ve been sleeping,
He knows when you’re awake,
He knows when you’ve been bad or good,
So be good for goodness sake.
Oh, wait! That’s Santa Claus! Hmmm… same thing!
19 September 2006, on 10:53 am
Frankie say:
“Some have defined atheism as the non-belief in God while others define atheism as the belief that there is no God.”
It could be argued that there is no difference between the two, just a nitpicking semantic discrepancy. But the “non-belief in god” option is your interpretation of that position. It implies a petulance, a rebellion, a willful decision to disbelieve in a god that, otherwise, exists. That’s more like half the definition of a satanist, Frank, and not at all what an atheist is- “a”- the prefix meaning without.
You could also call it “nontheist” and I’m partial to “post-theist”, in the same way that, by 8 or 9, even children are “post-Santa Claus”.
The problem, Frank, is that your statement offers no real argument. It’s symptomatic of your delusion that you can somehow interpret our lack of word for word response to it as a win for your side. There’s no point made and, therefore, no response in kind. You might as well say “Atheists don’t have a Church!” or “Atheists don’t have a bible!”. We’re not an institution, not monolithic, Frank, and “arguments” that call that into question are nonsensical because we’ve never claimed otherwise.
Your blog is filled with documentation of this type of “win”, but, alas, they are more like the ribbons given the slow children just for participating. Good job, Frankie.
19 September 2006, on 11:47 am
Frank,
You stated: Some have defined atheism as the non-belief in God while others define atheism as the belief that there is no God.
Compared to the vast expanses between competing definitions of god amongst believers this hair’s breadth of difference between atheists is laughable.
You also state: Because God isn’t physical.
We agree on this obviously. No god = no physical reality.
The Atheist Jew’s comment that “all Atheists can agree on what what God looks like…” simply means we all agree there’s empty space (or some other object) where theists believe there’s a god. I take it you are not an xian as your denial of a physical god is contrary to xian doctrine concerning Jesus, or god made flesh.
How are the college courses going? Must be tough.
19 September 2006, on 1:38 pm
I have a comment about the original point.
I don’t know how many times I have heard that tired line ” America is a christian nation.”
Anyone who knows anything about history knows there has been only one state with political institutions similar to ours and that is the Roman Republic. Both have a senate, a house of representatives ( or tribunate in the Roman Republic), and an executive branch (presidency for the U.S., consulate for the Romans).
To be sure, the religion of the Romans was completely intertwined with the state, but it was a pagan religion ( Christianity became the state religion long after the Republic had degenerated into the Empire).
The new American government after the Revolution was not just radical because it was not a monarchy, but because it completely divorced itself from religion. Not a bad idea, since in the previous century Europe had almost drowned in the blood of millions slaughtered in wars to decide if a catholic or a protestant was going to rule Germany, France, or England.
Of course keeping fundies away from each other’s throats and their mits off of the reigns of power are things they have resented to this day. No wonder they love our current (p)resident.
P.S. Great website, keep up the good work.
19 September 2006, on 3:38 pm
Weird how so many people have such different views of their Sky-Daddy. He really should’ve explained himself better…
19 September 2006, on 7:16 pm
Droog, there was actually an opinion piece in my local newspaper saying just that.
I sent a repsonse, but they never printed it. I wasn’t really all that surprised.
19 September 2006, on 7:35 pm
Frank says
There is no consensus among atheists about the very definition of atheism.
OK but we are down to two versions and with only minor semantic discrepancies. Toe ma toe or tah mah toe
How about that god business? Got any ideas yet or is it just the same old god of the Bible, Koran, and Torah, Gita, ad nauseum. If it is that god then why do you need so many books? And why all the blood sacrifice? And why all the rules that no-one follows? If it really is god and god commanded it then you should obey. Like no shrimp or other shell fish. No, absoluitely not, never, Divorce. Admit it Frank you’ve been bought and sold by your religion. They bought you at the price of a lie. And they sold you out when they denied you your rightful place alongside the wealthy folks at your church. But they suckered you into tithing and giving up a portion of your life to contribute to the easy lifestyle of your minister.
There is no god Frank, grow up and get over it.
19 September 2006, on 8:49 pm
The world is coming to an end.
No it’s not. It’s just breathing heavy.
19 September 2006, on 9:58 pm
Frank, Frank, Frank,
I stand corrected. Tara is the moron.You’re merely a pompous buffoon that gets his jollies entertaining us with your nonsense. We’ve seen you here before, we know what you’re selling, and we don’t buy your snake oil.
As to your assertion about baptists agreeing about their theology, I would say that it’s exactly like atheists. Some of us are southern atheists, some are just plain atheists but all of us would agree that belief in a religious doctrine or following an un substantiated eninity is not something we will do. We agree not to buy the snake oil because we don’t believe in it Frank!
Now you can believe what ever you want. That’s your right. But I don’t think coming to an atheist web site and blasting away at our way of thinking accomplishes much except asking to be disagreed with. So I have to ask, Frank old boy, DO YOU HAVE A GOAL WHEN YOU SHOW UP HERE?
If not,I guess that’s alright because we really like to administer the intellectual beat-down to buffoons and morons whenever they show up and make dumb assertions. It certainly is entertaining to see the IQ of religion’s finest on display.And remember Frank, spewing religious beliefs is a bit like masturbating, You may think it’s fun and everyone does it,but it’s not something you really want to do in public unless you want people to laugh at your glaring inadequacies.
19 September 2006, on 10:06 pm
No one has yet pointed out that Tara’s phone number was sung by Tommy Tutone. hehe
19 September 2006, on 10:16 pm
Frank old boy, DO YOU HAVE A GOAL WHEN YOU SHOW UP HERE?
Frank’s “goal” is to get enough courage to come out of the closet and admit that doubts Jeebus and gawd and like other xian lurkers is intrigued with the “dark side.”
Just like Cluckin’ Chicken who has also been lurking about today. They just can’t stay away because they want to be like us but are too afraid.
19 September 2006, on 10:46 pm
Pardon me while I pull
mya Frank…Walker(from Frankie’s little joint):“Raindogzilla said…
There are no atheist “stereotypes” unless you’ve manufactured them to go along with the delusion of your worldview. We don’t believe in gawd, period. We tend to accept and respect the scientific method, which makes any argument with your ilk counterproductive.
You all come to the arena bearing archaic texts, childish fairy tales, and no proof- extraordinary or otherwise, for your extraordinary claims and you claim “Victory!” when rational folks get tired of your repetitive bleating and send you packing.
Your Bible is no more credible than Greek/Roman/Sumerian mythology, the Dresden Codex, the Popol Vuh, or the Bhagavad Gita. In fact, it’s probably less so for all the jury-rigging involved in it’s assembly - from Origen to Nicea to King James, and the conspicuous absence of the dualist, gnostic-flavored Gospels of Thomas, Philip, Mary Magdalene, etc.
You folks really need to get a life.
Frank Walker said…
Hmm, looks like we have another girlie-man throwing girlie tantrums: Raindogzilla.
Raindogzilla said…
Aw, no, Frank, you didn’t just insult my manhood, did you? Oh, boohoo! Then again, coming from a “man” who’s worldview belongs in the DSM-IV, it just doesn’t have any weight behind it.”
Can I put this one up on my refrigerator?
20 September 2006, on 10:31 am
Paganus,
SHhhh! You’ll spoil the illusion…
21 September 2006, on 2:52 am
Cluck cluck, bu-kawk! Cluck cluck cluck, cluck cluck cluck cluck; cluck cluck cluck. Cluck? Cluck cluck cluck cluck cluck.
21 September 2006, on 10:50 am
Cluckin’ Chicken,
Are you still here? Man, you are just a crazy masochist.
21 September 2006, on 12:11 pm
I think we’re all supposed to be impressed that Frank is a college student.
22 September 2006, on 1:41 am
Many of your comments strike me as the mutterings of the circus train, heading up a hill, struggling to convince himself, “I think I can, I think I can.” YOu all better start running. I get the sense that the more you rant AGAINST those who believe, the more profanity you use, the more condescending remarks you make, the easier it is for you to think you can hide, but judgement is coming swift.
The fact is that no matter how many times you compare God to Santa Claus, in your heart of hearts you know He exists and you know that you will find that out for sure some day at the end of a gun.
I am not interested in being “right” or proving a point, I don’t care whether you think you are smarter, whether you believe that I am willfully ignorant, or whether you are better versed in logic, rhetoric or philosophy. I know all that will end with God’s righteous hand pushing you all over the edge of Earth into hell.
If that makes me one of those “judgmental Christians” so be it.
God Bless
22 September 2006, on 2:59 am
everyone has the right to think what they choose and nobody has the right to tell you differently.
i hope you would give Christianity a chance, tho.
Christians are humans. we have our faults, differences, etc…
we’re not perfect. God does love everyone. whether you believe in Him or not. if you only started believing in Him, He would readily forgive you for doubting His existence before.
we all have different methods of preaching. some might be right, but others might not be.
Christians aren’t better than you. it’s only dat you don’t believe while we do.
some Christians are misled. they make mistakes. i hope you don’t judge all of us based on what you’ve seen or heard before.
oh and by the way, i know how to spell. i’m using regular and internet lingo.
22 September 2006, on 10:24 am
GodIsWhatHeIs,
You are psychotic- seek help.
Grace,
“oh and by the way, i know how to spell. i’m using regular and internet lingo.”
Sure you do… *pfft*
22 September 2006, on 1:51 pm
Wow. So that’s how it works.
The post I sent looks nothing like what actually made it on the site. I guess your moderator doesn’t want you to read what we “bad Christians” really have to say.
I’m sure this one won’t be posted correctly either, but I’ll try anyway…you are being mislead by the people who run this site. Please don’t get your information about God from here!
God Bless My Hermaphroditic Organs
[Editor's Note]
Mr. HeIs apparently is unaware that posting blatently evangelical material here is a no-no. I apologize for that and will get cracking on a posting FAQ which I’ve been meaning to write, but have been a bit busy in my own right. Or maybe I’ll just continue funning the posts… who knows… it’s all good when you’ve got Rainy Day Women!!
22 September 2006, on 3:45 pm
I vote for “fun the posts” cause it’s…well, more fun. Did you do the same to “grace’s” original post (re phone number) as I noticed it was the same as the TommyTwoTone song (which was nice of you if she did indeed post her own number…dumb!)
22 September 2006, on 6:30 pm
GodisWhatHeis, not only do you blatantly and repeatedly violate our comment policy, but you are No True Xian (TM), for as Matthew 7:1-4 says, “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?”
Besides, silly person, people don’t come on this site to “get their information about God from here;” we’re an atheist site for agnostics, atheists, and other freethinkers.
Grace: i hope you would give Christianity a chance, tho.
Many of us already have, and some of us have probably forgotten more about xianity than you currently know.
Gr: God does love everyone. whether you believe in Him or not. if you only started believing in Him, He would readily forgive you for doubting His existence before.
Grace, can you not see how nonsensical this is? God loves everyone, but he won’t forgive them unless they believe in him. What kind of love is that? Not unconditional, that’s for sure. In addition, he can’t be bothered proving his existence with incontrovertible, irrefutable, hard scientific evidence but instead insists that we believe in him anyway so that he can then magnanimously forgive us for not believing in him because he won’t give us proof.
This is the kind of inconsistency that practically screams “people made me up!” It’s so human it proves our point for us, that god is a concept invented by human beings for human beings.
23 September 2006, on 9:30 pm
“The fact is that no matter how many times you compare God to Santa Claus, in your heart of hearts you know He exists and you know that you will find that out for sure some day at the end of a gun.”
” I know all that will end with God’s righteous hand pushing you all over the edge of Earth into hell.”
Why does god need a gun to prove his existence? Why would god need a gun to pass judgement? Does god need hands? When did earth get an edge? Where is hell?
You see GIWHI, it’s the statement about this vengeful, wrathful god that really make your way of thinking so incomprehensible. The need to make an omnipitent being have physical attributes is inane. The earth has never had an edge and the place you refer to as hell (and heaven for that matter) has never been proven to exist.Unfortunately, I suspect that you are unable to see these glaring inconsistencies because of the steady diet of babble that is fed to your head.
I know that I will die, that my remains will return to the earth, and that the cycle will be continued until man destroys the planet with his ignorance or the cosmos intervene in some galactic train wreck. My atoms were the atoms of others before and will be the atoms of things to come. I do not know that god exists any more than you know what god looks like. There is no proof, no evidence that you can present that shows your assertions to be factual. NOT ONE THING! But it is for certain that you and I will die and our remains will recycle as it has always been. What’s really deplorable is that you want to see the violent end of those who do not share your beliefs as proof that you were right.
I’m sorry we cannot help you see the falicies of you beliefs. But you are free to believe them if it makes you feel good. But given the judgemental tone of your writing, I suspect that you are really a very angry person and you don’t really like yourself very much either.
Grace, at least you seem sincere. I checked out christianity for the first 18 years of my life and I can say that it is loaded with inconsistencies and the actions of hypocrits. Church always struck me as a self-righteous social club and the rule book was based on a over-edited 2000 year old conglomeration of stories, parables, letters and poety. There are some fine guidelines for living in it, but nothing that proves the existance of god.So Grace,thanks but no thanks. Been there, done that. It makes no sense.
23 September 2006, on 9:50 pm
I
fuckedfunned Grace the first time, found her homepage, posted her phone number, felt bad about it(warning: atheist with conscience), and substituted “Jenny’s” digits instead.Shorter GodJizzWhatAJizz:
“Nyah! Nyah! Nyah! Nyah! I can’t hear you! Goddidit! Goddidit! Goddidit!”
Which would make him/her/it a crow/bullfrog hybrid.