While reading through a discussion thread on another website, I came across a comment that brought to light a couple of important questions about this whole “Jesus died for me” belief. The comment basically stated that Jesus is believed by xians to be a god who couldn’t really die or even sin and is apparently alive and well. The commentor pointed out how xians weep with sorrow when they hear the story about Jesus’ death for the millionth time even though they believe their savior lives. One minute they are crying and feeling sad…”Terrible how sinners killed Jesus…boo hoo” and then “He lives! He lives! Hallelujah!” the next.
Webster dictionary defines sacrifice as “a: destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else b : something given up or lost”. So, the question remains “How was Jesus’ death a sacrifice?” How can something be called a sacrifice when nothing has really been lost?
A definite “gotcha”. LOL.
The only reason Jeebus was crucified is that Roman law prohibited waterboarding and Pilate was no unitary executive.
It is perfectly ludicrous that a supposed immortal gets props for dying but what about christinsanity isn’t.
What many Christians also can’t seem to understand is that God is, by definition, immortal, so it is impossible for God to die. This alone proves Jesus could not have been divine.
This is a sacrifice in the same way a prophecy is still a prophecy even if it is forced to come to pass.
It’s a sacrifice in the same way that we have free will, yet gawd has a plan for us.
Reminds me of the quote I read somewhere…
“Jesus had a bad weekend for your sins.”
“Jesus had a bad weekend for your sins.”
MomSquared - I want a bumper sticker that says that.
Stardust
New remedy for Rhumatoid Arthritis here;http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/060929093721.htm
I’ve commented about this previously. If you knew you would be ok in a couple of days then what is the big deal? Ask someone who has been tortured in a foreign country and held as a prisoner for months or years. They definitely suffered more no doubt about it. They also suffered the psychological effects o not knowing if they would be executted the next day or if they would be tortured some more.
The whole mythology surrounding a blood sacrifice is so bizarre. The sacrifice as a metaphor or story is one thing but when they say that the sacrifice is directly for me? I have to say ahh no I’m not buying it. The sacrifices we each make to leave a better world or to insure our continued freedom that is something I understand. Jesus didn’t do anything for me.
By the way..is that a Chick Tract?
Ha ha!
New remedy for Rhumatoid Arthritis
Jimmer, thanks for the link. I hadn’t seen that. My doctor hasn’t mentioned it either. I will look into it further.
The sacrifices we each make to leave a better world or to insure our continued freedom that is something I understand.
Ramen
MomSquared - Maybe I should make copies of the above cartoon and drop them in treat bags on Halloween???
I was actually looking through a box of family heirlooms earlier and I came accross some stone tablets. It turns out that one of my ancestors knew the Christ’s!!! It’s true - they were close friends, neighboors in fact. They said Mary was a real flirt but was known to be a prude when it came right down to it. I guess my ancestor saw Mary’s hymen still intact after Little baby Jesus’ birth. Like I said they were real close - in my ancestors words, “Mary gave a hell of a rimjob”. I guess Joseph was the oblivious type, couldn’t really tell when he was being lied to. Just thought I’d let y’all know that the whole miraculus virgin birth thing is actually true. Forgive me if some of this info is wrong, I’m knew to translating.
Prometheus had his liver chewed by an eagle for 30,000 years. Jesus was on the cross for 3 hours. Which was the greater sacrifice?
Comparing the days Jesus spent dead and in torture to the days he enjoyed in blissful heaven (up to about the current day) does not make his sacrafice look all that special.
Out of all the time since the start of his crucifixtion, 0.0004% was spent in torture, while the rest of it was spent in total bliss. Ouch…painful…what a sacrafice!
How ’bout “Jesus had an S and M weekend for your sins!”?
Or “Jesus forgot his ’safe’ word for your sins!”?
Or “If He’d have asked me, I’d have told Him not to bother.”?
Or “Since it’s already paid for, let’s sin like a motherfucker!”
Or “My Boss is a dead Jewish masochist.”?
Richard Dawkins “The God Delusion” quote: “When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion.” Robert M. Pirsig ( Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance),
Raindogzilla, ohhh those are all so bad!! I love the “I would have told him not to bother” one,
YES Stardust, totally put that in halloween bags.
Except then we would be as annoying and disrespectful as them. Sigh..
You know, I love this place. It’s nice to have a place where I don’t have to act respectful of someone else’s myth.
Actually the Bible doesn’t indicate how long one needs to be dead in order to “pay the price of sin”. So even a split second death would be sufficient, if you want to get technical. “Sacrifice” in this story is a legal term. It’s all about legal requirements, not suffering or loss.
Xians don’t care if you have some logical argument to dismiss their beliefs. They don’t value logic. They value faith. The Bible says it, and they believe it, and that’s good enough for them.
First, I’d like to say that when I heard about this site, it was described as sick and disgusting. I had the impression that it was a message board full of half-witted whiny teenagers saying things like “god sux,” and “christians are stupid.” I was, therefore, supprised to find that it was nothing of the sort. Just people having intelligent discussions about religion, Christianity mostly.
“How was Jesus’ death a sacrifice?”
I will answer this question, not because I fear for your immortal souls, not because I want you to become God fearing fire and brimstone Bible thumping Christians, and not because I in some way thing I’m better than you because I believe in God. I’ll answer it because I’m truly interested in any replies I might get to what I have to say.
Jesus, the Son of God and all that jazz. God sent Him down to earth, as a part of Him in flesh. Flesh being the opperative word. Jesus came, preaching differently than the Old Testiment. He was almost hippy-ish in what He believed. He was born a Jew and made a new religion, Christianity. He didn’t scream at the sinners, He didn’t damn people to Hell; He loved them. He broke social barriers and hung out with the “depraved” of their society. He didn’t favour the noblemen or others further up in the hierarchy. He was hung on the cross because He claimed He was the Son of God, and people didn’t believe Him. By His death, He promised to wash His childrens hands from sin. His death symbolized moral and spiritual cleansing for any who asked Him into their heart. He rose again three days later, not just because He could, not because he wanted to laugh in the faces of the doubters, but to strengthen, renew and invoke faith into His followers.
I hope that wasn’t too one-sided for you; I tried to remain as neutral as I could.
Jessica,
I’m oh so curious to know who told you about this website.
The thing about the resurrection I always loved is how xians treat it like some kind of magical formula–like there was some sort of magical physics at work. “Jeebus had to die on the cross so we could be forgiven and have eternal life.” Really? Like God couldn’t have figured out a way to forgive sinners and offer them eternal life any other way. So much for all-knowing. You know what that sounds like? Why, it sounds exactly like primitive magical thinking!
Jessica, we are all familiar with xian mythology. Your little “sermonette” still didn’t answer the question “How was Jesus’ death a sacrifice if he didn’t stay dead?” What did Jeebus and Gawd lose?
Hey, that might have been me.
I’ve brought that argument up for a while.
Sounds ridiculous doesn’t it? All powerful God, alpha/omega and all that, died? But then not really? Where’s the sacrifice? What exactly is it that he sacrificed? Also, it was planned all along to happen that way. I guess it’s God’s big psych out on all you christians. “I died for you sins. Psych!”
Lynda said : Xians don’t care if you have some logical argument to dismiss their beliefs. They don’t value logic. They value faith. The Bible says it, and they believe it, and that’s good enough for them.
This really is the crux of the matter, you know. Xians are controlled purely on their “faith.” I don’t believe anyone here is really trying to “convert” them, though, but it really helps, when faced with their drive-by postings and rants of mass delusions, to remember that they will understand a logical response about as much as a toddler understands quantum mechanics.
One clarification to my previous comments. To those reading this entire post. Most of us here at gifs do not consider that the resurrection actually took place. People do not come back from the dead, when they’ve been dead for more than a few minutes. I do not assume that the bible is correct in any regard and should have prefaced my comments with.” IF the resurrection could happen” Then it wasn’t a sacrifice, because of reasons listed.
In my opinion and with some minor due diligence in studying this issue I personally have no factual basis for the existence of a one Jesus The Christ. No Christ, No Resurrection, No Nada. The whole mythology evaporates under scrutiny.
Jessica said:”Jesus, the Son of God and all that jazz. God sent Him down to earth, as a part of Him in flesh.”
I might be over analyzing this, but this idea of god giving a little piece of himself(aka his sperm)to create a son….to me reeks of why christians believe once a man fertilizes an egg it magically becomes human and to hell with the mother…cuz after all… man was made in gods image and woman was made in mans. This idea tends to make christians believe the male sperm is the alpha and the omega…thus making men into gods and women into handmaidens just like Mary.
ITs all sick and perverse. IMO.
Jessica
Technically Jesus did not found a new religion. Afterall he is quaoted as saying “I come not to end the law but to complete the law”. Jesus was jewish and will always be so according to the very words used to describe this myth. You can not rearrange his life or the laws as given to mean what you want but you must obey the laws as given.
And only an overbearing angry control freak would have his own son sacrificed without any regards to the mother who carried the child for 9 months, nurished him, and nutured him his whole life.
Sorry again if I am over analyzing again, but I am acertified canine psychologist and thats what we do, because it is humans that cause psychological problems in dogs and everyone else they come in contact with.
He was almost hippy-ish in what He believed. He was born a Jew and made a new religion, Christianity. He didn’t scream at the sinners, He didn’t damn people to Hell
“Hippyish”? That would be one of those sword-wielding hippies:
Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luke 22:36
He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Revelation 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
He also seemed to be a Jew all his life, observing Jewish rituals. He did not start a new religion; his followers did. As for Jesus and Hell:
Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[ 5:22 Some manuscripts brother without cause] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,[ 5:22 An Aramaic term of contempt] ‘is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Yeah, nice guy.
My hat’s off to Bertrand Russell who was the first one to clue me in that the Jesus of Sunday school & Hallmark cards might not be such a nice guy after all.
–JJR
There’s something else I don’t really understand about this Jesus story. Christians often talk about the great suffering that Jesus went through - but surely, if you’re the son of god and are capable of curing the sick, healing the blind and walking on water etc., then you must be capable of making yourself immune to a bit of pain…right?
I was at Borders the other day and there was a Passion of the Jeebus cartoon. It claimed to be a “story for the whole family.” I’m guessing there was extra blood for the kiddies to really reinforce how inherently evil they were born.
Qrazy Qat, thanks for looking up those Bible verses. I didn’t think that Jesus in Jessica’s description sounded very familiar. I wonder who she’s talking about?
Q: How can Jesus walk on water?
A: Because shit floats.
Q: Why did God killed Jesus?
A: To celebrate the Easter bunny first day of business.
James,
LOL
King Retard said:” I’m guessing there was extra blood for the kiddies to really reinforce how inherently evil they were born.”
You are absolutely correct. I remember watching a program on evilgelicals and one little girl on the show claimed that jebus died on the cross because of her. It was sick and disturbing.
Hi.
I am a CHIRSTIAN scientist, that implies im not an atheist. I will not attack the way you think, i have many athiest friends, and well, atheist people is not new, there has always been people who doesnt believe in God, and its their personal way of thinking, and i respect, however, i think you shouldnt talk about this , when you arent well informed.
In one opportunity i talked with a medic, and he was wondering why how it could be possible that Mary was pregnant without any sexual contact with Joseph, and how can it be possible that Jesus could have come to die.
I DONT have the answers, but just think how can we with all our technology make possible for a woman to have a children via artificial insemination, or how can we evict a person to die from cancer when its time.
In the future we probably will be able to teletransport, if we can build a quantum computer, BUT, as a believer I AM, im sure we will not have chances to do give life and to create the wonderful things we have around.
If you have read the Bible, you will find many verses for atheist, maybe you wont change your mind, i ask, Dont you see how bad is the FUCKING world, we are so enlightened with technology, but in the spiritual background, just go out, and see, how is your poor country (USA), childrens killing childrens and teachers, the drugs, the oversexed behaviour in the americans. Also Europe, people commiting suicide, its a red light, isnt it?, if you cant see it, its because you are STUPID, hey, that does not need a demonstration.
Faith can not be demonstrated, has to be believed, its a pitty you have had not a chance to know God, i thanks God, have had the time to experience a little bit of his greatness.
You will probably laugh about me, but then, go to laugh about Issac Newton, Kepler, Mendelshon, Handel.
HEHEHEHEH, By the way, it has not been found already Jesus body somewhere, but it has been found the noah’s arc, and the changes in the geography of the earth COULD have been produced due to the 40 days of continous rain that felt over earth.
By the way, Read a little about the book of Daniel, you will see something interesting, hope you are INTELIGENT ENOUGH to understand the chapters 7,8,9 and 2.
And dont translate the Bible to your human understandings, seek information and i wish you can find the TRUTH,anyway, we will be dead in 100 years, and what if it has to come that all this SHIT (as you call it), finally is REAL????.
By the way, iam a Computer Scientist, and most important, a Christian!.
Did a moderator mess with #36 or is that how it came in?
Not me. Sounds to me about spanish language native tongue.
Wait, aren’t Christian scientists the ones who won’t take their children for medical treatment and instead PRAY for a cure?
Alex,
By the way, your spelling and grammer indicated that you’re a christian. Many people become Atheists when they start reading and understanding the bible. They stop and say, “Hey wait, this can’t be the kind, loving and peaceful god that my pastor reads to me every Sunday? Could it?” I’ve heard christians justify murder right before my eyes.
“Well, god had all the babies killed because he didn’t want them to grow up evil and go to hell.”
It makes me sick that grown adults take this type of shittola seriously.
>>>HEHEHEHEH, By the way, it has not been found already Jesus body
>>>somewhere, but it has been found the noah’s arc, and the changes in
>>>the geography of the earth COULD have been produced due to the 40 >>>days of continous rain that felt over earth.
I have a magic word for you. GRAMMAR.
Next, we have NOT found Noah’s ark. There IS a lovely formation of limestone in the Middle East that people SAY is an ark, but it is no such thing–independent studies on the materials found there showed us that it was really a sheet of limestone forced upwards through the ground, with traces of a few metals mixed within. It’s just a lump of stone.
And NO, the formations on earth COULD NOT have formed from a flood–The Grand Canyon is a classic example. Retreating waters of the volume described in the Bible would have caused a long, straight, wide and rounded channel. Instead, we find a meandering, narrow, deep and jagged channel–indicative of a prolonged exposure to erosion from a stream, not retreating flood waters.
Most importantly Alex is a liar. No one with such poor grammar and spelling could have passed the required subjects to successfully complete a science degree, surely. (Unless he got it online from one of those pay for the piece of paper deals.)
Most importantly Alex is a liar. No one with such poor grammar and spelling could have passed the required subjects to successfully complete a science degree, surely.
Lynda, I was thinking the same thing. Even educated people who speak English as a second language have fairly decent skills in grammar. Alex is a troll pretending to be a stupid xian, or he is really stupid and lying about being educated, or someone asshatted his gawdly message. I think he is just a drive-by troll.
Are the trolls out tonight? It’s so cloudy and they’re none too bright.
“Most importantly Alex is a liar. No one with such poor grammar and spelling could have passed the required subjects to successfully complete a science degree, surely.”
I was thinking the same thing too. When I went to college, my first year was chock full of English, writing, and literature courses. We could not graduate without passing a difficult writing comp. exam. I suspect that my institute of higher learning wanted to insure that we knew HOW to write our opinions succinctly and accurately so as not to make asses out of ourselves (eg. Alex).
My opinion about all this dying on the cross is this–some idiot (pope? pedophile? etc.) made it up because he/she wanted to get away with ‘murder’. When you have a belief system of allegience=forgiveness regardless of the offense because somebody else already paid for your crime, it’s a free-for-all. There’s a host of unspeakable crimes a believer can commit; the sky is really the limit. All you have to do is utter “I take Jeebus into my heart” with your last breath and voila! you’re in. And this from people claiming to have access to divine moral guidance!
That’s why when somebody tries to ‘witness’ to me that they are forgiven for their sins because of Jeebus, my first thought is–What have they done?
I have another question… if Adam’s “original sin” can be “imputed” to us (making us all born sinners)… why can’t god simply “impute” sinlessness on us all?… why the need for the wierd crucifixion theatrics?…
why can’t god simply “impute” sinlessness on us all?… why the need for the wierd crucifixion theatrics?…
DamnRight - Because this gawd is like all the other gawds of mythology…this gawd is a dick.
Hi,
My problem with the crucifixion is why Jaybus had to die so early in his career. Isn’t it more likely that he was simply executed and his followers then had to find a reason for his death ie the “died to save us all” business
Yeah, Linda…
Your #44 ’snipit’ of lyrics is…as I recoil…from that very old Standard song…
“I Only Have ICE for You!”…
Roit?
As usual the GIF’ers miss the basic doctrine….
“…without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.” - Heb. 9:22
Some of you might ask…. Why Blood?
“For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.” Lev 17:11
DT says - “My problem with the crucifixion is why Jaybus had to die so early in his career”
Did He need a longer career? Looks to me like Christianity did just fine after He left. He accomplished exactly what he came to do. He became the innocent “sacrifice” needed to make the “payment” for the sins of mankind.
“How can something be called a sacrifice when nothing has really been lost?”
Just because Jesus rose from the dead did not mean it did not hurt. It did not mean He didn’t bleed. And certainly did not mean He didn’t die.
If I “sacraficially” give my car to the church and then 3 days later have one given back to me doesn’t mean there was not an initial sacrafice.
Flame away.
I once tried to put myself in Jesus’ shoes, knowing what he is claimed to have known when he was executed. And, notwithstanding the pain to ensue, hanging on a cross (which many did in those days) to die temporarily would hardly have been considered much in the way of sacrifice. It should also be noted that Jesus did not turn himself in … but instead had to be arrested to be punished. Also, what is up with “three days and thress nights” between Friday, sunset and Sunday sunrise? Inquiring minds want to know.
Pierre…you’re back. How unfortunate for us.
You xians are sure into blood and violence. Your religion is a violent one that is focused and obsessed with death and blood.
Just because Jesus rose from the dead did not mean it did not hurt. It did not mean He didn’t bleed. And certainly did not mean He didn’t die
First of all, let’s clarify that this Jeebus rising from the dead stuff is pure mythology.
Pierre, to sacrifice something is to give it away…to lose something for the sake of something else. Jeebus never lost his life…this gawd planned to bring him back (sort of like being under anesthesia for awhile when one is temporarily on life support and paralyzed)…and gawd never lost his “son” and that also was in the big “plan”…NOTHING WAS EVER REALLY LOST. Temporary suffering and conditions are not a true sacrifice.
It should also be noted that Jesus did not turn himself in … but instead had to be arrested to be punished.
LesserFool - excellent point. Sacrifice would be giving himself up to the Roman’s willingly.
Pierre
I respect that you enter this forum where you are outnumbered that’s never fun.
But sorry blood sacrifice is just not very cool in 2006.
Besides, Pierre, we grasp the concept of blood sacrifice very well, thank you. Right off the bat I can tell you that Star, Marcus, Sean, and I at least have studied enough mythology and world religions to know it’s a common thread in many belief systems, and is not at all unique to xianity (not even human or god sacrifice is in any way a new concept). In the judeoxian tradition, for example, it springs from the idea of the scapegoat, among others…
Back to jesus having suffered for me if he existed and was crucified (even if he didn’t rise from the dead): no, he didn’t. Was he a woman? No, so he would have had no idea what it was like to live in a society where women were second-class citizens. He would have had no idea what it was like to have a period and perhaps accompanying cramps. Or be given in marriage to someone perhaps he didn’t even know, let alone like. He was never raped, was he? Or pregnant? Or if pregnant, did he ever have a miscarriage? Or go through what his own mother did, watch her child die?
(That’s one thing the catholics in the street get right in their view of religion, in my humble opinion: at least they’ve retained a sense, if somewhat diluted, of the Feminine Divine.)
“For the life of a creature is in the blood”
I love these literalist interpretations. Since this is taken literally here, does that mean all of these creatures are non-living?
http://www.lodi.k12.wi.us/schools/HS/Potter/Student%20Projects/Brittany/platyhelminthes.htm
You’ll have to know something about their body plan to know why I picked these (though there are many others)
I read somewhere once that Jesus was cruxified for stealing that donkey he rode into Jeruselem. Kind of like the wild west of U.S. where horse thieving was a hangable offence. Also I have been using the veteran POW suffered more than Jesus and have not once been adderessed by any xian in refutation. Deep inside they know how silly their beliefs are and how ridiculous it is to believe that anyone has come back from the dead. Dead for 3 days dead.
It’s interesting how god found a loophole in his own law and exploited it. Sounds more like a bunch of bureaucratic bullshit rather than some higher plane of existence or truth, wouldn’t you say?
Hey, people, you dont need to attack, im not American, im a Mexican, and i know, my english might not be good yet, but im improving it, my spanish by the other side is great, and i can send you a nice piece of text written by myself showing you that i am able to write according to my education levels.
Im also waiting for a grammar book for the FCE Cambridge Exam.
May your minds, or God guide you to the truth.
May your minds, or God guide you to the truth.
Which “version” of the truth might that be, Alex? All religions claim to have the truth. If we put a group of you religious folks from various sects and denominations all in a room together to come to some agreement about this truth, the sun would burn out before you could agree on what this “truth” really is.
I will tell you what the real truth is, Alex. You are afraid to die, so believe in this gawd stuff to cope with that fear.
The truth is, there are no gods or goddesses except in the fiction of mythology. Humans have always been deluding themselves about the reality of death. Instead of enjoying the life we have here and now, xians and other afterlife believers waste their whole lives living for death (eternal life…whatever you want to call it.) Try freeing yourself from the mental chains of religion and really start living the ONE life you have.
Heh. He just hung there, groaning every now and again until people got bored and wandered off…
Stardust wrote:
Bravo, Stardust. Thank you for an excellent comeback for when people tell me that they hope God “guides me to the truth”.
Thank you for an excellent comeback for when people tell me that they hope God “guides me to the truth”.
Martian, you are quite welcome. Get ready for some of them to be pissed off when you tell them that. Some have come back with “I’m not afraid to die because I know where I am going” so I then ask, “then why do you go to the doctor and take medicine to be cured and to delay your meeting with your gawd?”
Marcus: My youth minister told me about it. You can see the reason he would describe it the way he did, I’m sure.
Sat No To Christ: I’d never really thought of it that way. I mean, the Jesus and sperm analogy. You have a point.
Jimmer: Yes, Jesus was and always will be Jewish. Judaism is a heritage as well as a religion. You can be born Jewish, but practice another religion. Anyhow, a seperate religion sprouted from His life, and forgive my poor choice of words for saying He founded a religion.
QrzxyQat: I said he was almost hippy-ish. Again, forgive me for my poor wording; I’m not nearly as eloquent as I’d like to be.
Katerina: A BIT of pain? Perhaps Jesus wasn’t divine? I don’t really follow the Bible, but I can offer a few biblical answers. And before anyone asks about me not believing in the Bible, it’s because the book was written by a bunch of men, not by God Himself. Conflict of interest and all that.
Alex: ” if you cant see it, its because you are STUPID, hey, that does not need a demonstration.”
“Faith can not be demonstrated, has to be believed, its a pitty you have had not a chance to know God, i thanks God, have had the time to experience a little bit of his greatness.”
“By the way, Read a little about the book of Daniel, you will see something interesting, hope you are INTELIGENT ENOUGH to understand the chapters 7,8,9 and 2.”
I only laughed when you spelled ‘intelligent’ wrong. I also feel obliged to ask for your definition of attack, because that looked like a verbal attack if I ever saw one.
Advisor Muppet: “By the way, your spelling and grammer indicated that you’re a christian.”
You spelled grammar wrong, love. We don’t all have bad spelling and grammar. I don’t. Not to mention, I’m not a Christian scientist at all, but a junior. In high school. It’s a good thing Alex went into a science field; he’d/she’d be screwed any where else.
Stardust: “I will tell you what the real truth is, Alex. You are afraid to die, so believe in this gawd stuff to cope with that fear. ”
Even I’ll admit that there’s some truth to this. Plenty of people turn to God for fear of death. I would know, my church is packed with old people with one foot in the grave.
Jessica,
Your youth minister is a pedophile- Mark Foley told me.
Marcus: Is that so? That would explain his proposition on Sunday.
When I was a Mormon the explanation of the “sacrifice” was that Jesus, who was sinless, had essentially taken on all the sins of those who would accept him, retroactively and in the future — that his spotless, guiltless soul was then exposed to the full brunt of the fury of damnation, and not just for one sin, but for trillions of them.
That, the teaching goes, was the real sacrifice. The death thing was only done so the resurrection could take place.
Interesting take on it, I think, and arguably one of the more rational things Mormons have ever said about anything. Much more grounded than the idea of “Mrs. God”.
I have been “pondering” something else. If gawd made humans to allow them to be imperfect by giving them free will, and religious folks say that it is our free will choices that fuck up a good thing, then what is going to prevent heaven from being fucked up?
Some xians I have asked about this answer that believers will be “transformed” in heaven and believers will become “good” and “perfect”.
Then if this gawd is going to transform all “believers” into borg in heaven, then why allow free will and play games that he knows the outcome of?
The more one asks questions, the more absurd religion becomes. This is why xians do not want to question. Questions deflate belief.
What I wondered Stardust is how people are supposed to be in heaven.
We all know people who are basically good and well meaning, yet at the same time personality wise they are not particularly likeable, just as we all know people who are not trustworthy or moral, and yet they are likeable people. Is the good person who goes to heaven but did not have a likeable personality still be unlikeable in heaven?
Is the good person who goes to heaven but did not have a likeable personality still be unlikeable in heaven?
TommyKey - I was told by some xians that believers are going to be transformed to be “like gawd.” So,since gawd is a dick, then everyone will be a dick in heaven. They will have one big dick fest in the sky.
I had one relative tell me that no one will be able to recognize a friend or relative in heaven by appearances because they will all look alike, but at the same time be recognizable. I was like…huh??? In-depth discussions with xians can become quite amusing, and confusing. (As we all here know all too well.)
Jessica, I think you’ve had the best comebacks I’ve seen on this site in a long time. Bravo!
You also appear to be questioning some of the stuff you’re being told in church (or wherever it is that you learned this stuff), and that can only, only lead to a life of reason. Keep it up.
However, I think you should be placed into some sort of all time greatest comebacks for your:
Marcus: Is that so? That would explain his proposition on Sunday.
I laughed out loud at that. You’re my new favorite Christian!
Randy: You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.
I dunno, being whipped and beaten and nailed to a cross to die sounds like a sacrifice to me. I mean who wants to go through that? I sure don’t, even if I can back to life after I died.
So maybe your paradigm is off.
I dunno, being whipped and beaten and nailed to a cross to die sounds like a sacrifice to me. I mean who wants to go through that?
MQM- That was punishment and government execution, not sacrifice. Jesus was looked at as a radical troublemaker. Jesus did not willingly turn himself in to the Roman government. One of his groupies ratted on him. In exchange for money, Judas told the Roman soldiers where to find him. The soldiers had to come find him and arrest him and take him away. He did not turn himself in willingly.
Now, xians claim that this Jesus was god in human form. Since you say god is immortal, this god can do anything to himself/his son…and come out unscathed. Therefore, no real suffering, no sacrifice. This is a story of mythology like Prometheus being chained to a rock by his immortal father and having his liver pecked out over and over again. Stories of mythology are always so gruesome and absurd.
Hey, Star, according to that newly discovered Gospel of Judas, Jeebus actually asked Judas to turn him in and, since it’s called a “gospel” it must be 100% true! Could just mean he had a death wish, I guess. If I knew I was immortal, I’d ride a unicycle off the Golden Gate Bridge.
Anybody got a unicycle?
Raindog, I guess the bibble isn’t the TRUE AND COMPLETE word of gawd after all? Or maybe the devil is messing with the holy texts? Or maybe god is just a prankster like chicken lady?
Sorry, RDZ don’t have a unicycle. I would go over Niagara Falls in a kayak if I knew I was immortal.
QuestioningMind, every year in the Philippines some demented religious types have themselves literally crucified so that they can experience what they believe Jesus is alleged to have suffered. Does that mean I should start worshipping them as well? After all, they are making a sacrifice, aren’t they?
QuestioningMind, every year in the Philippines some demented religious types have themselves literally crucified so that they can experience what they believe Jesus is alleged to have suffered. Does that mean I should start worshipping them as well? After all, they are making a sacrifice, aren’t they?
Tommykey - If I would have thought of that it would have saved me lots of time and typing.