Would you want a pill which could lessen bad memories?
29 November 2006 by Stardust
Everyone has bad experiences in life. It is part of being human and is pretty much unavoidable. While we wish to hold onto memories which are dear to us and give us a warm-fuzzy feeling inside, what if we could take a pill to rid ourselves of painful and traumatic memories from events we may want to erase from our memory banks. Would you take it? What would be some of the downsides of having such a drug? Potential for abuse can be expected, as with any drug, and if it got into the wrong hands, imagine the horrors that it could cause.
In my opinion, our experiences and memories of the events in our lives, whether good or bad make us who we are. On the other hand, if you have someone who experienced something that was so terrible that the memory of it is ruining his/her quality of life, wouldn’t it make sense to take advantage of such a drug? Or are humans going to far with messing with Mother Nature?
An ongoing study suggests it’s a choice that may not be so far off. The drug is called propranolol and it’s already used to treat high blood pressure. As Lesley Stahl reports, the prospect of using propranolol to modify memory has some trauma victims filled with hope, and some critics alarmed by the potential for misuse.
Considering the potential for abuse, one commenter pointed out: “Has anyone considered what criminals can do with this drug? Isn’t guilt and shame a factor in keeping some people honest and law abiding? Now if someone steals something or even MURDERS someone, All they would have to do is take a pill and not feel bad about it at all. I think it could be a great asset to some people but a very dangerous way to escape the guilt feelings that the criminal element would, and SHOULD feel.” Also, will this be good news for rapists and those who commit crime in general? Edit: To clarify, is this good news for criminals if a rape victim or victim of other violent crime takes medication that alters memory of the event. How will this drug affect prosecution of violent crime?
Gina Scaramella, executive director of the Boston Area Rape Crisis Center, sees about 400 rape cases a year and says she and her colleagues have concerns about the use of the pill. Scaramella says it’s important for women to feel in control when they are recovering from a sexual assault, and taking propranolol means giving up control over their memories. Secondly, she says, “anyone who took that medicine could be in trouble in a legal case,” since defense lawyers may say that the victim was so unstable that she needed drugs to cope, or that the propranolol may have altered her memory about the assault. Other ethicists say the pill may erase the rage that victims will need to go on and prosecute their attackers.
In the movie, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, after their painful break-up, the characters of Joel and Clementine used a procedure to erase their memories of each other. But real life isn’t quite as easy. Or is it. Would you want to have your painful or unpleasant memories erased from your mind?
29 November 2006, on 12:46 pm
No, I wouldn’t want to take it. I think some really smart guy said something once about how it’s better to see the world as it really is than to persist in delusion.
29 November 2006, on 1:00 pm
What color is it? Red or Blue?
-Berlzebub
29 November 2006, on 1:19 pm
Painful memories keep us from doing stupid things like touching hot stoves, walking out into traffic, driving carelessly, jumping into bed with jerks, etc. While it would be great to erase those memories I’d hate to repeat behavior because I forgot how damaging it can be.
Time already has a way of minimizing the strength of hurtful memories and a lot of people find they can even laugh or joke about those events that caused them pain in the past. There’s a bunch of comedians who would lose most of their material if they couldn’t remember the horrors of their histories.
Sharing painful memories is probably a far more helpful way to deal with them. When people support one another they strengthen their communities. Popping a pill won’t have similar side effects.
Empathy and sympathy are also the spin offs of painful experiences. How can you empathize with another’s pain when you can’t remember your own?
29 November 2006, on 1:25 pm
I’m wondering how they propose to target specific memories, rather than a time period (say, the previous 24 or 48 hours). If it’s a time period, would you really want to lose everything from there, or just the one thing?
I can’t imagine any doctor with even a half-formed set of ethics prescribing something like this to anyone.
29 November 2006, on 1:28 pm
“Has anyone considered what criminals can do with this drug? Isn’t guilt and shame a factor in keeping some people honest and law abiding? Now if someone steals something or even MURDERS someone, All they would have to do is take a pill and not feel bad about it at all. I think it could be a great asset to some people but a very dangerous way to escape the guilt feelings that the criminal element would, and SHOULD feel.”
Classic ignorant fundy type thinking. As if guilty feelings prevent crime. Most violent criminals have sociopathic personalities, so do not feel guilt, sympathy or empathy.
I think it this is very promising. What it actually treats is that occurs with the adrenaline effect on memory(and its reinforcing cycle) during a traumatic experience. While it evolved as a useful survival adaptation (vivid memories of flight-or-fight experiences producing an avoidance of them in the future), it can be damaging in the long run. PSTD is the primary focus. Expect to see it studied by the military. Propranolol is a very inexpensive drug also widely used for treating heart attack victims (beta blocker) and stage fright.
As it does not erase memory but just mitigates traumatic memory, I’m all for it. Don’t let those fear mongering Talibangelicals win this one.
29 November 2006, on 1:31 pm
errrr…”what it actually treats is WHAT…”
It does NOT erase memory and only targets emotionally vivid memory. You would not lose your fear of hot stoves, crossing in traffic etc. Adrenaline entrenched memory is most profound when it has a strong emotional context associated with it (trauma versus a scare).
29 November 2006, on 2:04 pm
I’m wondering how they propose to target specific memories, rather than a time period (say, the previous 24 or 48 hours). If it’s a time period, would you really want to lose everything from there, or just the one thing?
duquesne_pdx - I was wondering the same thing. How could a pill get rid of a specific memory? It would have to be a time certain time period that is erased, or dulled or whatever.
I would not want to mess with this kind of thing no matter what horrible memories I must live with. As we know from all the warning labels on the prescriptions we get for various things, who knows what the side effects of this type of drug might be.
29 November 2006, on 2:06 pm
Classic ignorant fundy type thinking. As if guilty feelings prevent crime. Most violent criminals have sociopathic personalities, so do not feel guilt, sympathy or empathy.
Spirula — good points.
29 November 2006, on 2:09 pm
Thank you very much for the specifics, Spirula; I can definitely see how it could benefit sufferers of PTSD, including war veterans and gang rape survivors. Like any other psychiatric drug, it could easily be abused, of course, and so must be prescribed and used with care. I wouldn’t support a drug that erased memory completely, either, but aren’t there regularly used drugs already out there that have that effect?
29 November 2006, on 2:39 pm
Spirula said:
Correct on both counts: the religious persuasion of the author you quoted is obvious for all to see, and it is true that most violent criminals have sociopathic personalities - which makes them absolutely indistinguishable psychopathologically from those mendacious, duplicitous and manipulative types who preach that there is a god.
29 November 2006, on 2:44 pm
Eve said:
I would, provided it was given to all of those who claimed to believe in a supernatural object that they claim is the first ’cause ab initio’ and try to cram their unsubstantiatable religious delusions down the throats of others.
29 November 2006, on 2:49 pm
The Old Git said: I would, provided it was given to all of those who claimed to believe in a supernatural object that they claim is the first ’cause ab initio’ and try to cram their unsubstantiatable religious delusions down the throats of others.
LOL!
29 November 2006, on 3:24 pm
Military Veterans PTSD Manual
Erasing bad memories
29 November 2006, on 3:50 pm
What many don’t realize, and why propranolol is so cheap, is that it is a WIDELY used drug. As a beta blocker, it simply blocks the effects of adrenaline (epinephrine) by binding to the receptor. Its side typical side effect is dizzyness which tends to dissipate with use. It is widely used to treat anxiety disorders in conjuction with other drugs such as SSRI’s. It won’t erase memories but will (apparently) interfere with the vividness of truamatic memories by interfering with the adrenaline portion of the cycle, the hormone associated with their reinforcement.
If released on the public in massive doses, the main effect it would have is a less anxious society…oh and the whole speaking in tongues/healing thingy would stop.
29 November 2006, on 3:50 pm
Personally, I’d take it for the sole purpose od ridding myself of a childhood filled with isolation and ridicule. That alone caused me to become the confidence-less shut in I am today.
But a simple bad memory is something we all need, because it makes those good ones all the sweeter.
29 November 2006, on 3:59 pm
If released on the public in massive doses, the main effect it would have is a less anxious society…oh and the whole speaking in tongues/healing thingy would stop.
Maybe this is something the whole world needs?
29 November 2006, on 4:14 pm
Matt,
To quote Cormac McCarthy in “The Road”:
“We forget the things we want to remember and remember the things we want to forget.” (my apologies if that is not an exact quote…don’t have it in front of me)
Unfortunately, when it comes to memory, negative reinforcement is more powerful than positive reinforcement.
29 November 2006, on 4:26 pm
Matt, the isolation- and ridicule-filled childhood I led made me who I am today as well; and I don’t mind.
The point is that deleting some pain from the past may not have the effect you expect.
A more subtle effect of this pill might be to enable violent crime and, more particularly, warfare; why worry about psychological effects on soldiers if you can reduce the PTSD aftermath?
Pills like this really could eanble War Without End, and that ain’t a good thing.
For my part: No way in hell would I take it. Ever. For any reason, under any circumstance. Because all I’ve got, in the end, is my history; which is the underpinning of who I am now, even the parts that hurt to remember. No fuckin’ way would I change it.
29 November 2006, on 5:26 pm
I was on propranolol a number of years ago. I did not notice any negative effect such as loss of memory or concentration. I really resent the implication that those of us who take it can’t remember or can’t concentrate for more than a few seco…Oh look!…something shiny! What was I talking about?
Seriously though, propranolol and other beta blockers have been around a long time and is widely used. If it had all these dangerous memory or violent crime effect (a worry that makes no sense if you understand who commits violent crime and why), we would have noticed long ago. This is a case where researchers decided to look at the effect it might have on trauma victims and their predictions appear to be accurate.
I taught Human Anatomy and Physiology for a number of years. When I would begin each semester with a brief comment on how memory works (because in A&P you have to memorize a lot).
“All memory is short term unless one of two things happen: 1)The information/skill/situation is repeated (or in some instances, intensely concentrated on, which is similar) 2) there is a strong emotional context to the memory. Neither I nor A&P are going to provoke the latter, as I am just hoping you stay awake, so you’re going to have to depend on the former.”
29 November 2006, on 5:48 pm
Spirula,
Presumably you know, but others here may not, that beta blockers are known to have produced deleterious psychological side effects, such as psychosis in substantial numbers of patients.
Beta blockers are so powerful that, for example, even in the minute quantities used in topical eye medications for glaucoma they have been known to produce full-blown psychosis in a substantial number of patients, but since many glaucoma sufferers are eldely, their behaviour is often passed of as the product of one of the dementias.
A search through the PubMeb database will produce lots of papers referring to this, but from memory one of the most influential was that in a 1987 edition of the Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology where 44% of the glaucoma patients treated with topical beta blockers were found to have suffered from psychopathological effects.
In general, beta blockers are notorious for side effects, but nothing is quite as bad as the risk of developing full-blown psychosis, and I would recommend keeping patients off them wherever possible.
29 November 2006, on 5:58 pm
The Old Git
I’ll check that out. I know at least a half a dozen people who have been put on them so I would like to know the percentages and other contributing factors (such as which beta blocker). One of the reasons propranolol is so cheap is that so many people are on it.
But I agree about psychotic breaks. Then again, PTSD is notorious for doing the same.
29 November 2006, on 5:59 pm
Matt,
Have you tried Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT)?
I ask because it is very effective in dealing with the issues you are experiencing.
If not, may I suggest that you do.
And, just in case you can’t afford a therapist of your own, may I also suggest that you obtain and use this book: ‘Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy’ by David D. Burns.
Despite the tacky title, this is a stand-alone book which one can use to treat oneself using the methodology of CBT, and it works - which is why, over here, many therapist recommend it to patients and frequently they use it to ‘cure’ themselves from their original ailments and free themselves from the drug regime that other, less capable practitioners, have put them on.
Believe me it works; I have testimonials from patients who have literally been renewed by reading it and applying its methodology.
And it only costs about $15!
At least have a look at it in your local bookstore.
The only thing you have to lose is your dependence on your meds., and your underlying problem!
All the best.
29 November 2006, on 6:08 pm
*lol* Old Git!
“Psychotic” effects? Yikes! It will be interesting to see the final results of these studies, and hopefully even more specifically-targeted research will follow.
Warren’s comment (# 18) reminds me of a quote from the character Callisto in the series Xena: Warrior Princess: [turning down licor] “I like to experience life in all its agonizing glory. I don’t want to dull the sensations in any way.” Of course, I’ve never suffered from PTSD; it would be helpful to hear from someone who has, and even then, I’m sure opinions might vary from one individual to another.
29 November 2006, on 6:14 pm
Spirla,
There are hundreds of papers on PubMed re beta blockers used in topical meds for glaucoma and occular hypertension, and the known side effects of timolol, betaxol, levobunolol, etc. Even the manufacturer’s data sheets make this clear (Merck on timolol maleate, for example,: adverse effects include…nervous system/psychiatric -delusions, confusion, hallucinations, memory loss…).
Furthermore, these advers effects of beta blockers are exacerbated when the patient is also on thiazides, which is often the case since many of them suffer from hypertension as well as glaucoma.
I don’t know what the situation is like where you live, but over here (UK) many opthalmolgists, psychiatrists, and general practitioners appear woefully ignorant abvout this problem. Result that many elderly patients are being treated with heavy psychotropic meds when all they need is a change in their primary medication to ‘cure’ the CNS problems they are subsequently presenting with.
29 November 2006, on 6:18 pm
Sorry for the typos, but I hope everything is intelligible.
Beta blocker induced CNS problems, including full-blown psychosis, are real problems which most patients and many parctitioners do not appear to be aware of.
Having had to sort out the after effects is no joke, believe me.
29 November 2006, on 6:30 pm
And about CBT, it has proven very effective for me in handling my panic disorder; I didn’t use a book, but I did see a therapist (until the insurance ran out!) and then learned some techniques on my own. I’ll have to take a look at that book, Old Git…
29 November 2006, on 6:35 pm
Eve,
I hope you find it useful (I’d be surprised if you didn’t).
All the best.
29 November 2006, on 6:51 pm
The Old Git,
To my knowledge, it (propranolol) is primarily used as a post-infarct treatment and (along with SSRI’s) for anxiety…short term. How often it is used to treat hypertension I don’t know. I do know from physicians that its use is widespread. I also don’t know about use for glaucoma here in the US, but topical treatment alters pathways (e.g. optic nerve versus oral-circulatory route) which makes me wonder if that is relavent. I was only referring to propranolol (Inderal) specifically. Can’t speak for the others as I really don’t know much about them. My point was to address the misperception that it wipes out memory or could induce violent behavior. And it goes back to that original quote that this will somehow be a “zombiefying guilt eraser”.
Psychosis from propranolol is considered a rare effect, but it can happen. However, I can argue you can risk psychotic side effects from antihistamines and cough medicines which are not even perscription (although that too is rare).
I think for the treatment of PTSD it is promising. PTSD is such a debilitating disorder, and which we in the US and you in the UK are about to be swamped with it(via the Iraqi war). I know here is the US, many of the homeless vets (Vietnam especially)are in that state due to PTSD and many have had psychotic breaks because of it.
Anyway, I saw the piece 60 minutes did on this and the jury is out but the patients/victims felt their lives had been completely changed. For the better.
29 November 2006, on 6:54 pm
errrr…”relevant”
You all need a preview button so I can stop looking stupid. Well, at least I can try.
29 November 2006, on 7:03 pm
Spirula, we had to make some technical changes recently, and I think the Preview function may have been affected. Not being one of the more technically proficient, I don’t know how to fix it. Perhaps one of my more expert colleagues is already working on it?
29 November 2006, on 7:43 pm
Spirula,
You have the advantage over me in both years and time, for it is late here and (a) I am very tired, and (b) as drunk as one would expect from an old git at this time of the day.
I respect what you say, and would take no issue with it.
I was only trying to raise a voice of caution re beta blockers.
Many medical practitioners here appear to be unaware of the fact that topical ophthalmic beta andrenergic blockade agents are readily assimilated through the lachrymal canal directly into the brain without first pass through the liver, and that consequently the systemic effects are greater than one might otherwise expect from orally administered medication.
Timolol maleate is considered the ‘gold standard’ for the treatment of glaucoma - both in US and UK - but a significant number of patients using it as topical eye drops suffer CNS problems, including full-blown psychosis.
At the onset of psychosis, if timolol maleate is discontinued and risperidone prescribed, the psychotic symptoms disappear before risperidone has had time to become fully effective - within 2 weeks, in most cases.
In other words, when an elderly galucoma patient presents with psychotic symptoms, the first question should be what glaucoma meds are they on, and if it includes (as invariably it does)the beta blocker timolol maleate, then the cure is often no more than terminating the use of that medication, though psychotropics may help the patient to cope with the adverse effects until they naturally wear off as the beta blocker works its way out of their system.
A word to the wise, is all I was trying to do.
29 November 2006, on 7:46 pm
You all need a preview button so I can stop looking stupid. Well, at least I can try.
Spirula, The preview button was a feature at the new site before it became corrupted and we had to revert back to the old site which doesn’t have it for whatever reason. So we have to make do until our experts have time to get a new site going again.
29 November 2006, on 9:03 pm
I suffer from PTSD and years ago I was begging for a pill that would take away the memories that were so debilitating and brought on psychotic breaks. Now, after 13 years of therapy, hospitalizations, ECT treatments and LOTS and LOTS of other drugs, but no specific memory erasers, I am at a place in my life where I am managing to minimize the trauma with all the tricks I’ve learned thru the years.
If my memories were as traumatic as they once were, I think I might take the pill. I do wonder how it works though. I got from the military quote that the memory has to be induced first. Ech. And some it doesn’t work on. How do they know which ones can be abated?
Also, my memories are associated with triggers, which set off both emotional and physical experiences. Would just my thinkiing memory be affected by the meds? Would my body still react to a smell or a sound or a word and I wouldn’t know what the f*ck was going on? At least now, I know most of what goes with what.
I don’t think a vicim of rape or any other kind of PTSD sufferer should take the meds without first working therapeutically. Like someone said…take control. Also, if a victim needs to testify about something, that memory needs to be fully intact.
29 November 2006, on 9:47 pm
People have been attempting to escape from traumatic experiences and memories with the aid of legal and illegal mind altering substances since the beginning of time. To the best of my knowledge, nobody ever truly escapes, they only dull the sharp edge of pain. I doubt that anything short of a lobotomy will actually erase a traumatic event from the victim’s memory bank. But hey, if it eases the short term suffering and allows the individual to come to grips with the incident(s), then I think it could be a useful tool in the recovery process.
On the other hand, I’m not a doctor and I don’t play one on TV…
29 November 2006, on 10:16 pm
I am having a lot of trouble imagining the science behind this pill, how it could target one specific memory (or a type of memories) and not erase others memories in the way. I mean, it would be just a pill you take, right? Plus our knowledge of the mind is not that comprehensive yet. For a pill that would work as described, what side effects would it have? It sounds like science fiction to me.
29 November 2006, on 10:23 pm
Your memories and experiences make you what you are. For good or ill, getting rid of them means denying who you are. Remember, that which doesn’t kill us makes us stronger, so we can kill it later
29 November 2006, on 11:50 pm
What was the original topic about in this post?…
Um…and…how do you use the ‘Home’ key on the computer keyboard?
[I’m Kidding!}
Seriously…my thoughts on memory cover some very basic things that I’ve considered in my own life experience. From various articles that I’ve read; memory is a lot less objectively reliable than most people assume. I think ‘we’ sometimes naturally distort, and in many cases, conveniently forget events that are disturbing to us…WITHOUT the use of any drugs.
I can attest to how MY memory account of a distant particular event has differed significantly from an old re-encountered associate’s account of the same event. Of course…MY memory is the correct version!
My use of alcohol and its effects, etc. in my younger days, most probably inhibit even my remembering a lot of things which, today, would make me cringe with embarrassment.
I DO have quite enough memory of other very early unpleasant life incidents…even a couple of pre-teen spankings quickly spring to mind. [One from each parent, separately!] Some of those kind of memories actually help in my appreciation of what was going on in my parents lives…and temper any judgment I might have of them…if, somehow, I couldn’t recall those incidents. It’s like the strict, somewhat scary, teacher who turns out to be the one you fondly remember as being the one you learned the most from!
Some events, related to some of my drunken episodes, I’ve never forgotten. They still evoke embarrassment, and make me cringe at how stupid I was in certain circumstances…and how ‘lucky’ I was that no one was physically hurt, or killed, in the process; including myself! I finally decided to stop drinking alcohol, and habitually relapsing in 1986, and smoking tobacco in 1989…yada, yada…and very seldom even think of “re-inventing the wheel” of my addiction. However, some of those really bad memories pop up once in a while to remind me of the pain; some, physical [Terrible Hangovers?]; some, just embarrassingly stupid circumstances.
One of my sayings, mostly to myself, still remains:
“You wanna be stupid?…Do drugs!…They, evenually, and perhaps inevitably, GUARANTEE Stupidity!”
I usually follow that, when saying it to others, with:…
”Of course…I COULD be wrong!”…
”By the way, are you an aspiring, ‘experimental’ Scientist?”
Alas, my point, here, is very basic:…Certain memories…if one LEARNS from them…may turn into positive, and even VERY important aspects of our individual subjective reality, which, I think, would even be UNWISE to eradicate; stemming from some momentary whim, and accomplished by using an even MORE questionable drug.
THAT drug itself might become another, further ‘unmanageable’ addiction…possibly even a fatal one…while one is trying to escape one’s own, personal responsibility…and the societal responsibility to one’s fellow traveler on this little “Earthly Orb”.
OK…now, back to using that ‘Home’ key!
30 November 2006, on 12:02 am
I’ve had mostly negative experiences with psychiatrists and the meds they’ve tried to put me on before. Psychological counseling and self-introspection have always been better for me in the long run. My current therapist is working out very well. My attempts at self-medication (i.e. alcohol) just quit working for me, causing more problems in the long run than was worth the temporary escape…plus it kept my “base line” in the area of “low grade depression” pretty much all the time. Having maintained sobriety since 8/1/06, I do, on the whole, feel better about myself; Little frustrated about my career situation, trying to break back into Librarianship, but beyond that, Life’s a-ok.
No, I would not take the drug propranolol; I wouldn’t stay on Paxil (hated the “sexual side effects”–I was like, shit, if ANYTHING has kept me sane, that unique form of self-love has, I’m not givin’ THAT up…), and Welbutrin didn’t do much for me. I gave it up when I realized it wasn’t that I was suffering from depression per se, but that I was in a shitty marriage with a control-freak who was drifting back to her fundamentalist family roots to boot…and THAT’S why I was miserable. Once I filed for divorce I *instantly* felt a whole helluva lot happier. No regrets there, still glad to say.
One of the weird things for me about _ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND_ (which I LOVED, incidentally) was that I had just separated from my then wife when I saw it…so I couldn’t help but juxtapose myself mentally with Jim Carey’s character, and my soon-to-be-Ex-wife for Kate Winslet. It was touching to watch the characters start to unwittingly fall in love again…not remembering their horrible fights and ugly break-up at all, the same little things that initially attracted them to each other began to go to work again…the old chemistry was there again, working itself out. And while I felt good for the characters, I imagined with horror if that were me and my estranged spouse. Because, yes, not knowing the dark things I learned about her (and vis versa, shoe on the other foot), yeah, I probably would, as the cliche would have it, fall in love all over again with that person…because it was based on an idealized conception of what I wanted them to be, rather than who they actually were. There were things I found genuinely attractive about my ex, and not just her knockout body. But I also deliberately ignored some pretty large red flags that should have tipped me off that THIS AIN’T GONNA WORK.
But on the other hand, I’d be denying a large chunk of the last 4-5 years of my life if I could magically “erase it” all, or even more fanciful, go back in time and decide NOT to pursue the relationship at all. It’s not like it was all bad…in the beginning there were some really really wonderful times, times where I felt like I was walking on air…where I was happier than I’d probably ever been in my life up to that point. Those are still fond memories, even knowing as I do how everything turned out in the end (rather badly).
I savor every aspect of the memory of that relationship…the good, the bad, and the ugly.
I don’t think about it often, but it’s part of who I am now, and I have no desire to blot it out from my consciousness.
anyway, that’s my $.02
Plus the lead in article makes me think about all the creepy CIA drug experiments I’ve read about through the years. *shiver*
30 November 2006, on 1:36 am
Well. I have heard many times that your personality is somewhat based on your experiences, your memories if you will. If you could take a pill to “lessen” those memories, wouldn’t it distort your personality, who you are? It is the principle of spanking your child when he does something really bad, he learns not to do it again. If you took the drug, how would you prevent yourself from doing the same thing all over again?
30 November 2006, on 4:51 am
Can I use it to forget the last six years of George Bush?
30 November 2006, on 10:23 am
JJR,
Kudos to your upcoming 4 months sober!
In regards to your ex and that situation; I was recently counseled to examine my relationship with my parents in my childhood and identify areas of conflict/distance/shortcomings/etc.and see how the issues in my marriage paralleled the issues of my youth. Bingo! Nearly all points where my childhood needs were unfulfilled were similar to behaviors exhibited by my wife, and vice versa. In other words, we choose partners to make up for inadequecies of our parents. Most of the time we just relive the miseries of youth instead of being able to affect meaningful change in our lives. A rather viscous and unproductive life path at best. So look at your childhood, ask yourself what disappointed you (or you hated the most)about your parents, and then see how many similar traits your ex shared with your parents. I would bet that you will be amazed.
Hang in there! You’re on the right path!
30 November 2006, on 10:35 am
I love the ethic debates that scientifically-based medicine produces. It is so refreshing and stimulating and anything but the black-and-white thinking of fundamentalists who arrogantly think they have all the answers.
In any case, I do wonder about a slippery slope situation where people do not mature and grow on account of suppressing otherwise normal (even if painful) experiences and situations of life. Given the mis-prescription of drugs for ADD and depression, I don’t have much faith that a slippery slope would be avoided.
On the other hand, if it could be strictly controlled only in cases where PTSD is highly likely or demonstrable, it would be advisable to consider this medication. As someone who suffered a traumatic event 20 years ago, a drug like this would have helped considerably.
30 November 2006, on 11:24 am
The Old Git,
I understand what are warning about and I think your cautions should be heeded by all. I bow to your clinical experience as my operant is research. I think you nailed it about the lacrimal to brain and liver bypass. For the same reasons, nasal delivery drugs worry me.
I do not think this drug should be used lightly. I was trying to clarify for other readers how memory works, how adrenaline influences it,how it can produce abberations such as PTSD, and why propranolol offers hope for some. Oh, and I agree that beginning with therapy first is most important.
Cheers, from the other side of the pond that is getting about 2.5cm wider every year.