The Women and Men of Wisdom Speak
30 November 2006 by jimmerThis is about a seminar given for three days in November In San Diego at The Salk Institute. Science Religion talks. You can download the entire 3 days at the link at the end of this.
This is from a portion of a talk given by Neil deGrasse Tyson. Astrophysicist and Director of the Hayden Planetarium of NY.
… I want someone to put electrodes on my head. And when I reflect on our kinship with the cosmos. When I do the calculations that show that a 15 ton meteorite that we have at the Rose Center for Earth and space. It’s an iron meteorite. When I do the calculations that shows if you take all the iron from the hemoglobin of the people in the tristate area of NY City. You can recover that much iron out of their blood and realize that the iron from that meteorite and the iron from your blood have common origin in the core of a star.
Tell me what part of my brain is lighting up? Because that excites me. That makes me want to grab people in the street and say “have you heard this”? That it is not simply as Carl Sagan says: “We are starstuff”. But there’s a more poetic and I think more accurate way to say it. It’s quite literally true that “we are stardust”. In the highest exalted way one can use that phrase.
And so “I feel” and “I use words”. I bask in the majesty of the cosmos. “I use words, Compose sentences that sound like the sentences I hear out of people who have revelations of Jesus. Who go on pilgrimages to Mecca, There is some commonality of feeling. I know it, I want someone to do that experiment. Because the day you do. If the same centers in my brain are excited by these comic thoughts as are going on in the mind of a religious person. That is something to know.That is going to be a really interesting finding.Because what that tells me as an educator is “Let me offer the Universe to the people” and they will start taking it in and they will start achieving those fellings that they had before. And I don’t care if they abandon previous feelings. I’ve got an offering that keeps growing, that keeps becoming more majestic.
The full 3 day event can be downloaded here:
http://beyondbelief2006.org/Watch/
OK so I have been listening to most of the program over the last few days. It is absolutely the very best assemblage of modern sientists skeptics and a few religious people. Make copies for yourself and listen in on what is being said by todays brightest and best.
If you’ve been indoctrinated into any particular religion. Then you know how they either beat it out of you. Or denied you your own thoughts, curiosity and expression of how you perceive the world we live in. They even continue by insisting that their opinion about science must be considered as regards the education of today’s youth.
In my mind I imagine that the religious leaders are terrified of losing ground to the true pursuit of life that is in all of us. They can’t bear the idea that something as simple as Living life on lifes terms is it’s own reward. That living according to your hearts desires is enough. That life is not to be ruled over but is to be lived in full vigor. And what scares them the most is that they are not in charge and more and more people are rejecting their rules and phony values.
Science does keep giving. It is in the nature of human kind to give. And to give such a wonderful vision of our lives is infinitely better than the visions of hell handed out by the religious.
30 November 2006, on 8:23 pm
It’s poetic and beautiful, the reality of our origin. Every time I comment on this site, I’m mentioning my kids, but it’s only because being in one of the world’s smallest minorities, I’m always looking for others to associate with. Besides my wife, I really only know a couple other atheists, including my brother, and wife and I aren’t astrophysisists, so explaining the beginning of mankind for us takes patience and a lot of reading to the little ones. My daughter loves it that we are made of stars. She gets giggly when we talk about how big the universe is and how we and everything all around us use to be burning brightly in someone else’s sky, and I live to see the look on her face when she tries to wrap her mind around these concepts.
Now, during the “holiday season”, my wife and I try as hard as we can to keep the religeon out of our festivities, doing everything from making sure the kids understand that we aren’t celebrating the birth of a fictional character (the 8 year old doesn’t even believe in santa) and explaining that our family gives a few gifts to each other to celebrate the end of the year and the start of a new one, and how proud we are of them and all they’ve accomplished so far.
Sorry, I’ve gotten really off topic.
30 November 2006, on 8:32 pm
Great post, jimmer, and many thanks for your heartfelt comment, nathan. What better time than the winter solstice to celebrate our origins?
And theists say science isn’t poetic–!
30 November 2006, on 10:25 pm
We are ALL Stardust!? Oy. I hope there’s enough room in her head for us all. Though it would explain any headaches you’ve had recently, Stardust.
That’s a kick ass article, and I will definitely be showing it to my little girl later. Right now, we’re watching Africam.com (Nkhorho Pan), we saw a lion walk by and we’ve been discussing the need for animals to remain in the wild, and how we’re animals just like the lion or the zebras or the millipedes (well, close). It’s pretty cool because while I wouldn’t consider myself an “eco-hippy”, I do think that, as human animals, we should shit where we eat. Plus, I want the kids to understand that there is MUCH more to life than what goes on here in their own little world. The idea “That life is not to be ruled over but is to be lived in full vigor.” is perfect. Well said Jimmer.
30 November 2006, on 10:50 pm
I have to agree with Eve’s compliment to Jimmer’s post…and Nathan’s comment.
However, one thing kind of sprang…”shwang?”…out regarding Jimmer’s line in the post:
“It’s quite literally true that “we are stardust”. In the highest exalted way one can use that phrase.”
I somehow started imagining‘hearing’['our'] Stardust perhaps exclaiming:
“Hey!…all this poetic cosmology is great…but…
let’s not get TOO intimate on that concept!”
[OK, now where’s Stardust?]
Yeah, I know…
What a difference a ‘Cap’ makes?
Richard Dawkins, also, in one of his talks, makes some interesting references related to all this. I think it may have been in his “Queer Universe” lecture.
[As I comment…out of sight?]:
“So…laying a finger, aside of my nose…
Happy Cosmic Awareness” to all…and to all…a good night!
Hmmm….I may work on a holiday card, with that theme!
30 November 2006, on 11:01 pm
I hope there’s enough room in her head for us all. Though it would explain any headaches you’ve had recently, Stardust.
Bean, I was wondering why I was needing so much Tylenol lately!
You can recover that much iron out of their blood and realize that the iron from that meteorite and the iron from your blood have common origin in the core of a star.
This is the meaning behind my blog name. When I took my first astronomy course in college, it was this very thing that got my brain going and make me started questioning religion and where we all really came from.
One of the first things I wrote on my Stardust blog was this:
There is not one thing in the entire vast universe that remains as it is. Every thing, living or inanimate, changes. Some say even the universe itself will at some point in the incomprehensible infinity contract inside itself, swallowing every atom and molecule up, then will be born again with the next “big bang” and our recycled particles will begin anew.
Here is something else to ponder
Another universe may have preceded ours, study finds
30 November 2006, on 11:28 pm
Stardust’s:
“Some say even the universe itself will at some point in the incomprehensible infinity contract inside itself, swallowing every atom and molecule up, then will be born again with the next “big bang” and our recycled particles will begin anew.”…
reminds me of the Hindu/Buddhist’s(?), Mythological, of course:
“Inbreathing, and Outbreathing of Brahma”
30 November 2006, on 11:50 pm
“Inbreathing, and Outbreathing of Brahma”
My husband and I were just discussing that very thing…”inbreathing and outbreathing”…sort of like how a lung functions. Interesting, isn’t it?
1 December 2006, on 12:02 am
ChuckA
I wish I could be so eloquent but that line is from Tyson.
And when you put that finger upside your nose do you feel compelled to fly up a chimney?
Stardust
I was hinting at this the other day.
1 December 2006, on 12:16 am
I’ll ‘pass’ on going up any chimneys, Jimmer…
instead:
This is kind of off topic; BUT…
in relation to what humans can accomplish on this little planet…positively…maybe even ‘cosmically’…with REAL cooperation…as opposed to the opposite…insanity of war…witness Iraq, f”rnstance…
I got this YouTube link from an old bandleader, I used to work with in the early ’90s…
It’s for anyone who likes, really great, big band jazz…I thought I’d pass it on, for anyone interested. Besides the linked “Sister Sadie” tune, the page has some other really great stuff from a 1993, GRP All Star Big Band [Japan tour] concert.
[Shades of the old 'Thad Jones/Mel Lewis' band?]
Obviously, speakers up!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMPZ75wQOt0
1 December 2006, on 12:52 am
ChuckA
Muchas gracias. That is right up my alley. I never would have guessed they had that on there. Not only the GRP stuff but all the rest. What a score.
1 December 2006, on 10:56 am
OT, guys: I’ve got quite the debate started at the ol’ Martian blog: . Jump in. Had a couple of creationists with the old standby arguments, and one just left mad, because he keeps getting shot down…
1 December 2006, on 10:57 am
Sorry, here is the link:
http://townofautumn.com/blog/2006/11/28/the-burden-of-proof-is-on-you/
1 December 2006, on 7:59 pm
Wow, what a lively conversation to say the least, Martian! You’ve got some great debaters on that thread.
2 December 2006, on 1:28 am
Martian, I visited the discussion and read probably about half way down the page…Oy Vey…and decided to POSSIBLY continue later.
However, even though I commend you on your bravery (?) I started thinking of how futile it is to engage in those endless arguments.
Let me try to briefly explain my case in point.
Statement: Earth is a ‘Predatory’ planet; I shouldn’t need to explain that.
Question: Why would a supposed Infinitely [Say what?] Almighty Deity…all knowing, all lovey-dubbey, yada, yada…make ‘His, supposed, one creation in the whole fucking, humongous universe…a place of decay, disease, suffering, warring, child abusing…zama, zama…and, ultimately, DEATH?
I would be saying to the Great Fuctard: “WTF, Almighty Asshole! THAT’S your best idea of creation??? Were you drunk, or totally stoned?
OK…
So what’s the ignorant ‘Bozo-Religio-Theologico’ answer?
It’s OUR fault…”Of COURSE!…Silly Us!”
But WAIT!…[Espresso?] WHY?…What’d WE do?
“Ooooh…I see…it’s all because of two pig ignorant morons…huh?…Only 6000 years ago?…WTF!…who were, WHAT?…fooled by a talking snake, in some stupid animal filled garden?…Zama, zama!
ROIT!
OK, to cut to the chase…We’re dealing with the GREAT MYTHOLOGICAL ELEPHANT in the Cosmic Room:…unrecognized ‘KINDERGARTEN COSMOLOGY’ perpetrated by brainwashed, delusional idiots…on an outrageously, humongous, grand scale.
“That did it…Aargh! “
Anyone who’s been around GifS for awhile; or has explored the archives, knows how FUTILE it is to go round in circles with Philosophically/Cosmologically ignorant Fundie Kindergarteners! The rational, objective portion of the brain was long ago shut off by childhood conditioning, programming, or brainwashing. Choose whatever term you like.
It’s like pounding your head against the wall, dealing with them. I know…
”It feels so good when we stop!”
To quote the non-existent mythical Jeebus on that little quote: “Thou hast said it!”
One other point. With the upcoming holiday season rapidly cash registering in, I started to think of the old Santa Clause shtick that most of us were given as children.
Wasn’t that, really, a practice exercise…or training run for…BELIEVING… in an unproven, even ridiculous notion.
[Besides that, the commercialism of it all, even adds to my opposing its use.]
Yeah!…We swallowed it for awhile…as well as the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy etc. At the same time, or shortly after, we were being introduced to that other invisible being, who’s always watching you…Gawd!
Of course Santa etc. weren’t REALLY real…but…oh yeah!…you must believe in that really scary ‘gawd’ guy who dragged you into exitence and will never let you out! “They check in; but they don’t check out!” [Also like Sartre’s “No Exit!”] Otherwise, you’ll be punished for aaaaaaall eternity! BOOGA, BOOGA!
Yes, dear child…Be afraid…be very afraid…
[Do I now hear the ‘George Carlin Xmas Carolers’, conducted, perhaps, by Martian, lip-syncing?:]
“But, He LOVES you!”
2 December 2006, on 12:15 pm
Unfortunately I missed this (I was on jury duty). This is great stuff to listen to. One little high point, a woman astrophysicist states that the Bertrand Russell’s orbiting teapot argument (If I have to prove there is not god then prove to me there isn’t a teapot orbiting the sun) is problematic. As she so elegantly states “there are millions of teapots orbiting the sun, they are all on earth”. I understand why the fundies never thought of this answer, but folks why didn’t anyone else (until now)? It’s a wonderful insight made by a wonderful woman, go listen (number three I think).
2 December 2006, on 9:02 pm
Hey you guys, this is kind of on topic. My friend told me about this. Feel free to guffaw, gasp, and go cross eyed.
2 December 2006, on 9:07 pm
Errr….I mean this
4 December 2006, on 8:14 pm
Arrgh, Bean! I wonder how much money that could have fed hungry mouths went into constructing that joke – and how much more will it rake in once it opens? I wouldn’t care about fundies being ripped off by their own “leaders” if it weren’t for the actual, real good their money could do if donated to a better cause!