Oldies But Goodies
10 December 2006 by Bob
Just came across this nice post from Ron from the archive, and wanted to remind everyone about this classic commentary on the xmas season in relation to parenthood. Times like these reveal much about the social advantages of belonging to that crazy xian cult (especially here in the midwest, and, I’m sure, in other places as well). For those of us who have yet to drink the punch, it’s like we woke up on Mars.
I know you’re trying to be nice to my son. But unless you just think we’re monsters for not doing Xmas (and you probably wouldn’t, if we were Jews instead of Atheists), you’ve got to be able to recognize that saying to a kid what amounts to “looking forward to all those presents? oh, what’s that, you don’t get those? you poor deprived child!” isn’t making his life happier. Aside from the whole creepiness of the imaginary old fat guy who sneaks into your house through the chimney in the middle of the night story, it’s really not very decent of you to ask a 5-year-old to think about the ways he might be excluded from something like this.So shut the fuck up. If a kid is talking about Xmas, or wearing a Santa hat, or whatever, fine. But asking random small children how excited they might be about the pile of loot that comes to all good kids on Xmas morning is pretty insensitive.
‘Tis the season to be xian…
10 December 2006, on 11:40 pm
Huh?
10 December 2006, on 11:55 pm
Yeah, I hate that. In fact, it’s really the only reason my kids think Santa Claus is real. Because before we could explain it, other people had already indoctrinated (yeah.) them with this fantasy. And I am not going to be the evil parent who ruins their childhood now. Plus, my husband was the kid in class whose mother believed St. Nick was Satan, and so, he told the other kids there wasn’t a Santa and he was forever “that kid” whom all of the other mothers hated. I think he doesn’t want our kids to turn out like that. I drop hints that he’s not real, so they can figure it out for themselves and perhaps gain some kind of confidence from the personal triumph…or something.
11 December 2006, on 12:36 am
It is a pretty insensitive thing to ask a child when one stops to really think about it. To make an assumption that all children celebrate xmas is an unthoughtful mistake. I always felt bad for the little boy who lived next door to us years ago. They were Jehovah’s Witnesses and they did not celebrate Christmas or Halloween yet adults would ask “so, what are asking Santa to bring you” or “what are you going to be for Halloween” and his mother said he would come home and beg for decorations, and he would beg to be allowed to be like the other kids and to dress up for Halloween. He seemed so sad around holiday times, looking out his livingroom window as other kids trick-or-treated.
I don’t regret telling my kids the Santa stories but wish now that I hadn’t encouraged them to believe he was a real person who had a magic key to get in our house since we didn’t have a chimney. We kept presents to three apiece and didn’t go hog wild like so many people do. (They did wonder why Santa gave so much more to their friends.) If I could go back in time,I would treat Santa like Peter Pan, Alice in Wonderland — wonderful and fanciful stories, and leave it to their imaginations instead of leading them to believe it was all real.
11 December 2006, on 2:33 am
If you rearrange the letters in Santa you can get Satan. He does wear red, after all.
11 December 2006, on 7:02 am
Apparently, when I was many summers younger, I am reputed to have made the following statement one December;
“I definitely don’t believe in Santa Claus, and I’ve got doubts about this stable-and-manger business too.”
This would have been a few winters after I had asked “him” how he coped with balanced-flue gas heaters and received the “magic key” reply …..
11 December 2006, on 9:45 am
I may be wrong, but something Stardust said struck a chord.
“he would beg to be allowed to be like the other kids and to dress up for Halloween. He seemed so sad around holiday times, looking out his livingroom window as other kids trick-or-treated.”
This is soooo sad, damn near abuse in my book. C’mon folks, they’re only kids once. I was raised in a secular home, but was part of the Santa fantasy. And that’s what it was FANTASY. We all figured it out before there was any permanant psychological damage. Plus, we (bros and sis) all turned out fine.
I love the Santa Claus myth, even though he was pretty rough on Rudolph at first. I see no harm in sharing it with children. It’s not like children are expected to pray to the Santa god, under penality of death, for the rest of their lives. The wonder of Santa Claus in their toddler eyes is priceless.
11 December 2006, on 11:43 am
In my house we celebrate as many holidays as possible, but we do it secular style. I explain to my children the traditions and reasons behind the holiday and they seem fine with that.
Although I do have to warn the younger one to keep his mouth shut when it comes to Santa. He is only 9 and quite a few of his classmates still believe and I don’t want him to be the one to burst their bubble. Althought its hysterical to see them mock the Santa ads on telly, particularly the Cingular one.
11 December 2006, on 12:09 pm
ATM said,
He does wear red, after all.
That’s only because of commercialization by the Coca-Cola company, back in the sixties, I think.
Which brings me to another little irritation of mine. Being an atheist must give me an insight into the season that those who worship (ahem) seem to lack. A few years ago I was at a Xmas party, and one of the women there was talking about getting her son a pet he wants. Her father had told her, something like “That’s what Christmas is about.” I couldn’t help but say, “Really? I thought it was about a birth in a manger.”
I didn’t even bother mentioning Xmas’ pagan roots, and such.
-Berlzebub
11 December 2006, on 12:24 pm
I can’t remember ever actually believing the crap about Santa, certainly not at 9 years old, lol. Since we never lived in houses with chimneys, perhaps that was the source of my disbelief. Perhaps I believed when I was a toddler, but my memories only go back to about 5 years old.
11 December 2006, on 12:40 pm
Smack me if you must, but my sweet, innocent little 7yo son believes in Santa Claus. And… umm… we don’t correct him when he says that. He absolutely doesn’t believe in gods (they’re myths, Mommy) but, he does believe in Santa. I’m starting to wonder if his faith is wavering though. In our studies this year, we’ve read about Nicolas (the original Santa). Ds says, “Wow. Santa’d have to be like a 1000 years old, eh?”
Now, he is starting to ask me if I believe in Santa. I tell him that Santa is all about kind acts, and that nowadays we give presents to show that, even though there are many ways to express kindness. He says he thinks there still is a Santa because “there just has to be some good behind all those presents.” I leave it to his discretion to come to his own conclusions on the subject.
So, sue me if you must. I reserve the right to preserve my kid’s childhood innocence as long as possible. And if believing in something as (IMNSHO) Santa is part of that, then so be it.
By the way, I also write him teeny tiny little cards from the Tooth Fairy, and tuck a toonie inside.
I know, I know… I’m such a rotten liar of a mom.
11 December 2006, on 1:14 pm
By the way, I also write him teeny tiny little cards from the Tooth Fairy, and tuck a toonie inside.
I did the tooth fairy thing too but I was really bad at it. I kept forgetting to leave money under the pillow! The kids would wake up the next morning complaining that the tooth fairy FORGOT AGAIN! I then would sneak in there in the middle of the day and swap the tooth and money and they would go back and eventually check again …GEESH! LOL!
One thing about the Santa fantasy, tooth fairy fantasy, easter bunny fantasy…it’s a lot to keep up with…and hard to keep track of the fibs we tell and to keep the story straight. One lie leads to another and another. But my kids say they don’t regret it and it was fun while it lasted. But there is that conflict and a bit of guilt I felt about teaching our children not to lie, and then we lied, then we had to teach the difference between good lies and bad lies…oh what a tangled web we weave!
11 December 2006, on 1:34 pm
xian cult?
im confused.
11 December 2006, on 3:09 pm
adamandjeremy -
From Merriam-Webster:
CULT: 1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
Still confused?
11 December 2006, on 4:50 pm
Hi Gifs haven’t commented in a while, but thought I would wade in on this one. We get to have Christmakah in my house, little tidbits for Hanukah and a few bigger things for Christmas with Santa only providing one larger gift.. I agree that you are a kid only once and fantasy is an important thing in children. When my kids actually figure out that there is no Santa (we’ll let them work this problem out for themselves), we will than get to use that as an example of how people use fantasy to make themselves feel better. And that many people believe in God to make themselves feel better. Use the tools in front of you (dare I say god given
it’s so much simpler and straight forward that way.
Merry festivus to all.
11 December 2006, on 9:23 pm
I agree with Ron’s stance in the post and say don’t bring up the holidays with kids unless you already know how they’re celebrating them or not. Star’s story about the little Jehovah’s Witness boy (sounds like a xmas tale title) really plucked at my heartstrings, and sure does show up how the insanity of religion can affect your children.
I say roll Chanukah, Xmas, and Kwanzaa up into one and celebrate the Winter Solstice, like so many of us (and neo-pagans!) do; I’ve got no problem setting Kwanzaa candles in a menorah over a nativity scene!
11 December 2006, on 10:55 pm
My feeling is get rid of the lot of them as national holidays, and make a Gift Day in June. That way you don’t have people making mad rushes in really crappy weather, having accidents, in the winter (In the Us anyway). Couldn’t care less what other countries do.
12 December 2006, on 11:54 pm
I agree that you are a kid only once and fantasy is an important thing in children.
Not to open up a can of worms here, but I’ve heard this so often, and I’m just not sure what to do with it.
That is, it seems as if, when one says this, that one is claiming that all imagination — or at least an important chunk of it — is related in some intimate way (or stands or falls) to (with) the implementation of SC. Like, if a kid doesn’t do SC, then her capacity for imagination or fantasy or whatever “suffers” because of it.
Now, I’m not claiming that anyone actually believes this claim — but when I hear this connection over and over, I get curious.
So, I guess my question to the Pro-SC-Imagination-Team (PSIT) is the following: does anyone really think that the capacity for imagination in a child will suffer if a child doesn’t do SC? If not, then why bring it up at all in relaton to imagination or fantasy? But, more important, if so, then why do you believe that — i.e., what evidence do you have to believe such a claim?
13 December 2006, on 12:44 am
So, I guess my question to the Pro-SC-Imagination-Team (PSIT) is the following: does anyone really think that the capacity for imagination in a child will suffer if a child doesn’t do SC? If not, then why bring it up at all in relaton to imagination or fantasy? But, more important, if so, then why do you believe that — i.e., what evidence do you have to believe such a claim?
Bob,
I don’t think that the capacity for imagination in a child will suffer if a child doesn’t do the Santa Claus thing. Look at all the children in other cultures who don’t have the Santa fantasy at all and have quite vivid imaginations.
Like I said before, if I had it to do over again, I would keep Santa in the context of stories like Peter Pan, Alice in Wonderland, James and the Giant Peach, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory,etc., and if they asked me Santa was real I would just say he is, in the “land of make-believe.”
13 December 2006, on 10:01 am
Stardust wrote:
At least insofar as their governments and religions allow them to.
13 December 2006, on 8:09 pm
Well, when I was little, my parents taught us about Santa Claus. I definitely believed it for some time too.. I don’t even remember when I stopped.
Tooth Fairy, though? My parents tried to tell us that, but one of my older brothers told me early on that one time he was expecting the tooth fairy, and was actually woken up when my mom moved his pillow a little to put money under it. I pretended that I went along with it though (mainly because.. hey, it’s free money! If I told my mom that I knew it wasn’t true, would she bother to continue to do it? LOL.)
But with the Easter Bunny.. I was never told a damn thing about it. I thought the rabbit was just some stereotypical symbol of Easter (which it is, too), but I never heard anyone talk about the Easter Bunny as it if was real. If we did egg hunts, we knew our parents put them out there. They told us so first. The candy in the baskets? They said they did it. My point is, though, that that didn’t take away any of the fun of it! The thought that such a thing could be real never crossed our minds, but the spirit of such a holiday was still there.
So, if I ever get children, I’ll teach them these things as stories, but not as true. We’ll also figure out some fun, secular way to enjoy the time of these seasons. That’s pretty much it, after all. Gifts or no gifts, Santa or no Santa, we’ll make it great.
24 December 2006, on 2:48 am
[...] Given a previous conversation on this site concerning Santa and kids, there’s a related entry called The Spirit of Christmas, which gives a negative answer to whether or not parents should introduce the concept of Santa to kids. (Maybe he could print out the article on Santa’s death and show it to children. I’d be lying if I told you I wasn’t tempted to do it.) [...]
24 December 2006, on 6:25 pm
I don’t recall exactly how old I was when I figured out Santa didn’t exist but at least I figured it out on my own with a slight mistake on my dad’s part.
We had a dedtached garage which must have contained some of the loot for that season. In the process of filling up the stockings which hung on the railing heading up the stairs my dad failed to remove his shoes. This resulted in some rather incriminating shoeprints on the carpeting. I think I asked something like “Why does Santa have the same shoes as daddy?” I guess the fantasy kept everything from clicking in place right away, but I think it only took a few more seconds after asking that question.
-sawtooth