Remember Me?
29 December 2006 by King Retard
Hey GifSters, it’s been a while. I’ve missed all of your blasphemy like crazy, but I’ve been incredibly busy for the last few months and have been neglectful of you all. In a nutshell, I began teaching at the university I’m getting my Masters Degree from and am still taking classes. Compound that with some various family issues and whatnot and you get an absent King Retard. But no more!!! So enough about me, let’s get on to the atheism!
Today I’d like to share some reflections and observations I’ve made about the religious beliefs of college freshmen at a fairly liberal Southern Californian public university. First, a little background. I teach freshman composition, so all of the writing is essay writing and all of the reading I assigned was non-fiction. I primarily used a textbook, but I also gave out some handouts, notably from Demon Haunted World. The second essay I assigned this semester was to analyze an argument made by another author. Not to make their own arguments, simply to analyze. Discuss why an argument is valid or invalid, how the argument is effective or ineffective, etc. One of the five essays they had to choose from to analyze was titled “Do Kids Need Religion?” Now, the author of this piece was discussing religion in general, of course it always seems to come back to xianity. So, on to the observations.
1. Freshmen seem incapable of distinguishing religion from xianity.
My students seemed to be pretty accepting of other religions, but whenever talking about the need for children to have some exposure to religion, they invariably used xian imagery. They would describe images of crosses, bibles, ministers/priests, etc. Now I realize you need to go with what you know, but most of them would pay lip service to the variety of religious belief out there and then wholly ignore it.
2. Given any opportunity, fundie students will witness to you.
Keep in mind, the assignment was to analyze an argument. It seemed that my students with any kind of religious bent took the opportunity, and hurt their grade, to ignore the parameters of the assignment and instead tell me all about why they are religious. No analysis, just how they couldn’t imagine a life without their awesome church and how gawd is a part of everything they do. A lot of them were shocked during conferences when I explained to them why they scored so poorly on that essay because they ignored the assignment and I could care less what they believe.
3. After hearing all about “liberal education,” xian students come in ready to fight.
True, higher education, especially English departments, tend to be a little more liberal than mainstream society because the main enterprise is critical thinking. When questioning things, you tend to be less conservative. I’m definitely very liberal, but I try not to force my beliefs on my students. That said, that’s what everyone has warned them about. A lot of religious students came in expecting to be force fed gay marriage, evolution, and godlessness. worked it in, but very subtely. Early on though, they were ready to jump all over me and were disappointed by my facade of neutrality.
4. The more religious, the lower the quality the writing is.
“Children are so innocent.” By far, this was my favorite quote of the semester and became my office version of “Oh, how the fire crackled.” One of my colleague’s students wrote this describing an ad with three little girls praying. The whole paper had that smarmy, glassy-eyed tone. It seems the more religious the student is, the worse the writing becomes.
5. Religious students have no concept of why someone wouldn’t be religious.
Much like our religious trolls around here, religious students seem to have absolutely no concept of why someone would reject belief in invisible sky daddies. Any time they would address non-believers, they would do so in the tired and false terms of anger at gawd, not going to church out of laziness, or reactions to scandals, such as priest molesting children. Many of them stared blankly at me when I explained that some people simply did not believe in gawd and felt no anger or resentment towards a being they did not believe existed. That one always seemed to throw them for a loop.
29 December 2006, on 2:26 pm
Hey KR! Welcome back, friend! I was waiting for this post!
Concerning #4 The more religious, the lower the quality the writing is.
In grading high school student essays for college entrance exams, it is indeed the religious ones who write the worst and they feel compelled to intertwine prosetyzing with the assigned topic and do a poor job all around and therefore earn quite a low score because they fail to follow directions, and they just don’t know how to write properly.
29 December 2006, on 2:35 pm
Nor how to think properly!
29 December 2006, on 3:15 pm
Hey KR, nice to have you back!
Hope you don’t mind if I pick a nit. But I’m guessing you meant to say “I couldn’t care less what they believe” [My emphasis].
29 December 2006, on 3:22 pm
Nice one, correcting the English teacher!!! Thanks for all the welcome back messages.
29 December 2006, on 3:52 pm
I was just going to post the same comment, Rev…
OK…I will anyway! [Just as an agreement with your usual quick observance!]
Better late, than never…?
Welcome back King Retard…I’d been wondering what happened.
Just for the record…if you’ll excuse a correction…which has been noted here at GifS several times…[and by Rev, above!]
It’s “I couldn’t care less” not “I could care less”. Obviously the latter indicates you haven’t reach rock bottom in your concern.
It’s apparent, of course, as a responsible Professor, that you DO care for your students…screw their beliefs, though!
By the way, I was an English Minor in MY undergrad days…so long ago, that the effects are often unapparent in my comments. Aargh!
I really am happy you’re back…healthy, of course(?)…you’re always perceptive and articulate posts AND comments have been sincerely missed around here!
29 December 2006, on 3:59 pm
Hmmm…so this is what a ‘Prodical Son’ REALLY gets, on his return?
Sorry, KR…just a little humor [Yeah, very little!]…an unburnt offering?…to make up for my naughty behaviour.
Shall we all now procede to the “Castle Anthrax” for a spanking?…
Followed by Espresso?
“Wait!”
29 December 2006, on 4:26 pm
I deserve it for talking about poor writing.
29 December 2006, on 4:30 pm
KR
Good to hear from you man. I’m glad your still in one piece after trying the teaching waters. I hope they let you return so that you can continue the work of bringing those innocent minds into the reality of reason
29 December 2006, on 5:12 pm
For the record, KR, I try to distinguish between typos and grammatical or contextual errors. I usually don’t worry about typos, like ChuckA’s “Prodical Son” ;), and usually don’t worry about most grammar errors. But things like mis-pronouncing “nuclear”, and “could care less” really perturb me, for some odd reason.
Not that I’m Mr. Grammar, I’ve been known to leave a dangling participle or two.
Oh, and when people type “ect” instead of “etc” REALLY bugs me too, lol.
29 December 2006, on 5:59 pm
So, KR…none of your students complained to the department chair or higher up about their assignment? I would expect some of them would be bitching their little self-righteous asses off for not getting a fair grade on their jeebus speeches.
29 December 2006, on 6:47 pm
Were you teaching here, KR, the fundie students could probably complain that you were exercising religious discrimination against them - at best you would be given a verbal warning by the educational establishment, at worst maybe even interviewed by law enforcement.
Naughty, naughty; must be nice to loonies!
29 December 2006, on 7:23 pm
From a longtime quiet lurker, welcome back KR!
29 December 2006, on 7:58 pm
Your experiences are very similar to mine. I have taught several sections of a world religions course, and I would describe nearly all of my students as having a small-town Xian background. Needless to say, this worldview has definitely had an impact on their papers. While they know that there are religions other than Xianity, they seem to believe that Xianity is the one true religion, and everyone else just hasn’t become a Xian yet. Once, after I made the comment that not only does the First Amendment give us the freedom of religion, it also gives us freedom from religion, some of the students were stunned. One asked, “But if you don’t believe in religion how do you get into heaven?” One of their assignments is to write a research paper on the historical lives of Jesus and Muhammed. Invariably I get the Bible School version of Jesus’ life, followed by what amounts to as “Muhammed was a wicked sinner and I much prefer Jesus.” What really surprised me from teaching this course was how many Xians don’t consider Catholicism to be part of Xianity. They are amazed to learn that the Protestant denominations originally broke away from Catholicism. I’ve also had students remark that their church’s minister/pastor/elders/etc. have told them that they shouldn’t take this class, since learning about other religions is a sin. I suspect some students have dropped from my class for that reason.
29 December 2006, on 8:39 pm
Chayanov,
That is most interesting in general, but I am particularly drawn to your comment that, “…how many Xians don’t consider Catholicism to be part of Xianity.” since that was an attitude I encountered frequently in Spymac’s ‘Sanctuary’ forum and, as a European, I found it difficult to understand how so many US citizens seemed to share that erroneous, and, frankly, ridiculous view.
I also find it interesting that you’ve, “…also had students remark that their church’s minister/pastor/elders/etc. have told them that they shouldn’t take this class, since learning about other religions is a sin.” as I’m always amazed that so many religious people think that their particular faith is paramount and refuse to acknowledge the claims of competing religions. Normally I respond by telling them that I worship Coatlicue, the Mother of the Gods, but that she only appears if satiated by a human sacrifice, so would they care to be the sacrificant. Generally, that results in them edging away and making sure that they are never alone in my company again. (The lengths one goes to to get peace from the clamouring of fundie-loons.)
Frankly, I am amazed at the lengths all religious believers will go to in order to defend their completely irrational faiths, and I think that it is about time that religious belief per se is classified in the DSM and ICD as a personality disorder at least.
29 December 2006, on 9:55 pm
I find it gratifying that the little wienies can express any opinion, loopy or otherwise. At their own fundy sites — and in messages to atheist sites — they seem to have great difficulty articulating a coherent thought.
29 December 2006, on 10:26 pm
Chayanov, I took a religions of the world class where a majority were some form of xian. Those people could not grasp a concept in another religion that is found in theirs. One even asked if the Muslims worshipped the trinity right AFTER the instructor got done just saying that the Muslims don’t consider Jeebus to be the messiah!
It might just be me, but looking at a class room full of blank looks when another religion comes up was priceless.
And the saddest thing is, I, an atheist, got the HIGHEST score on the xianity test in a class full of xians.
29 December 2006, on 11:24 pm
The Xian worldview puts incredibly narrow blinders on students. In the Jesus and Muhammed paper, what frequently comes up is that “Muhammed was just a man,” as if this is some kind of horrendous insult against him. In their minds, Muhammed simply cannot compare to Jesus as the son of god, and despite the explicit instructions to treat them as historical figures, their beliefs always override any attempts at scholarship.
Recently some students have complained about the use of BCE/CE for dates instead of BC/AD, because using BCE/CE “doesn’t give Jesus his due.” That is some seriously messed up thinking!
30 December 2006, on 12:16 am
Yeah, Old Git…as you remarked: “Naughty, naughty; must be nice to loonies!”
Yes, but then immediately after class…for the naughtiest of the loonies…
it’s off to the Castle Anthrax…
[Accompanied, of course by the suitably equipped, brave instructor...
like KR?...OK...and Chayanov, too?]…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtcSYPjJbgg
Yeah, I know…I’m really reaching a bit…and ’stretching’ it too!…
A last 2006, “Freudian spanking tribute”, perhaps? Say what?
Yes, I know…YouTube is quite addictive!
Hmmm…”Spankers Anonymous” anyone?…or perhaps…
the ‘Navel’ Tune, for all you Mariners?: “Spankers Away!”
[I think you probably know the 'malady'!]
Yeah, you’re right…”Stop that…it’s Silly!”
No, Old Git…I can’t afford therapy! It’s too late anyhow.
30 December 2006, on 6:24 am
You don’t need therapy, Chuck. Besides L(oonie) Ron Hubbard and his gang of arrant idiots have declared that all psychology/psychiatry is a crime.
Funny how he didn’t think that making up a nonsense religion with the express intention of making himself rich by defrauding the credulous and narcissistic out of their money was fraud.
Amazing what some people will do for money and power.
Even more amazing is that there are always credulous fools ready to be exploited by those who profess to ‘have the secret’ of eternal life.
30 December 2006, on 11:41 am
KR,
It would be interesting to see the reaction of your xian students to an assignment requiring analysis of an essay from Anton LaVey’s “The Satanic Bible”. If studying other religions is sin, imagine the flack you’d get with this proposal.
BTW, correcting other people’s grammar or spelling (unless in the context of a classroom) has always been considered rude behavior in our family. If one really cannot understand the meaning of a statement based on clumsy grammar or poor spelling, then a question to clarify is appropriate, otherwise such corrections are petty. If we wanted to become perfect writers– perfection being highly unlikely given the ever-changing nature of language–would we not all be enrolled in English or writing classes?
(I wonder if there is as much room for grammatical errors in Chinese.)
30 December 2006, on 11:43 am
I think the whole BCE/CE thing is stupid. All it really does is rename the terminology; the focal point of the calender is still the birth of Jesus. Either rework the system or don’t.
What WOULD be a suitable date to reboot the calender? What was truly world-changing? The end of World War II? The first nuclear test?
30 December 2006, on 12:04 pm
Oh no! Not the first nuclear test! Isaac Asimov wrote a story about how the end of the world was postponed because every culture was still using a different dating system. The story ends with somebody proposing that 1945 be year one of the Atomic era …
30 December 2006, on 12:55 pm
Lynda…I liked what you said in both comments in #20.
We used to have a copy of LaVey’s book around our place. It got thrown out [with some old underwear?] along the way…partly out of simply wanting to not be embarrassed by having it? [The underwear WAS embarrassing!]
If I recall, he purposely wrote it to severely ruffle the Fundies’ feathers. I used to chuckle about it in my New Ager days. Wasn’t one main point that Religion itself acted as an effective ‘anti-Christ’ to the truth…the 800 lb. gorilla in the room?
Yeah, if KR tried using that text…I suspect the torches, pitch forks, Inquisitional torment machines etc. would be brought out from the vaults rather rapidly…even a Saddam-like hanging might occur. [Reminds me of a "Black Adder" episode…the line: ”I’d rather have my tongue nailed to the floor”?]
They might even put some Berlioz’ “March to the Gallows” music on the University sound system!
As to your second point about all the grammar shtick…I think we all know the feeling of catching some stupid mistake in our text…right after we ‘execute’ the submit button. Aargh!
I was responding to something very late last night [to Jeremy]; and even though I was fairly satisfied with most of the text; the words I thought I had expressed, in one part, seemed to take on a life of their own…if you get my drift!
As an aside, I frequent Agnostic/Atheism quite regularly, and actually like Austin Clines’ posts very much; but regularly notice typos etc. I sympathize with anyone on that account…we all could use proof readers, I guess.
“Thank you so much for enduring [humoring?] me…
and of course…have a nice day!”
30 December 2006, on 9:10 pm
ChuckA: Proofreaders: yes! Spellcheck: NO!!!
I’m on the email list of an excellent and very prolific writer; some weeks after I started to receive them, I emailed back to him a (gentle) redaction of one piece, reminding him that the message is blunted by bad spelling and punctuation. He accepted my offer to send him any amended versions I deemed egregious in the original. This happens, on average, once a week.
Just last week, I sent this to him:
I’m coming over to your house, and if I have to kick down your door, I will get in! Trust me on this: I mean business! I will destroy everything that looks, acts, sounds, smells or feels like “spellcheck” on your computer! I am deadly serious, Steve!
Well, maybe not that serious. But relying on spellcheck programs allow many errors, some serious, to get by. You already know that–you’re one of the smartest people I read! I’m a punctuation-maven (saying that out loud sounds very weird!). I think puncuation clarifies our language and is suffering woefully from its lack or misuse.
Your obedient servant, etc.
He only reminded me that he can be stubborn. I, in turn, reminded him that I will be relentless.
From the same author–and just for ChuckA who seems to relish spanking:
The Asylum Street Spankers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmsOIjzQ1V8
(Sorry, no hands actually connect with flesh…)
KR: I am likewise amazed that xians aren’t aware of the debt they owe to catholicism. Without the Nicene Convocations of 325 and 378 (AD!), there would not be a divine jeebus! Until then, he was a mere prophet…
Naomi
30 December 2006, on 11:29 pm
I never understood Christians. If I was writing an article about religion, why people accept it and why they reject it I wouldn’t write about why God doesn’t exist and that only stupid people believe in God. Why do they feel the need to?
31 December 2006, on 12:16 am
Chayanov wrote:
“Recently some students have complained about the use of BCE/CE for dates instead of BC/AD, because using BCE/CE >>doesn’t give Jesus his due.
31 December 2006, on 3:10 am
Naomi said: “….and just for ChuckA who seems to relish spanking”
The operative word, Naomi, is ’seems’…I’m not actually into spanking…I REALLY don’t dig pain! I have vivid memories of a couple of ‘Duzies’ as a kid. I think it’s more about my fondness for the Python shtick in the “Holy Grail” flick. You do, of course, believe me now…don’t you? Huh?…huh?
[Goofing off too much with that kind of stuff, CAN lead to some false stigmas on ones 'impeccable' reputation.] ;(
[ChuckA, as he walks off; Stage Left]: “Now, let that be a lesson to me!”
[Offstage sound FX: loud spanking and...
intermittent, nervous, gleeful laughter!]
Oh, and thanks for the vid link…very funny…I had seen it quite a while back…very clever, great staging, and it still hits the mark. Not much has changed!
31 December 2006, on 9:53 am
Why would a fundy who is afraid to even learn about other religions take a course on world religions?
Lynda,
Don’t underestimate grammar, spelling, and, above all, punctuation errors. They may look harmless to you, but they often slow us (non-native English speakers) down and, depending on profeciency, they may diminish our understanding. Which is ironic, given how we are the ones to make the most mistakes, of course.
31 December 2006, on 11:00 am
Naomi
Great vid.
31 December 2006, on 2:13 pm
KR,
Good post. Sounds like you have made a dream job for yourself. Congratulations. I would give anything to see the expressions on the faces of young and naive Xian fundies when they read excerpts from ‘The Demon Haunted World’.
The idea of taking a neutral point of view on the subject of the assignment was pretty clever. It gave the students who could not, just enough rope to hang themselves with. I love it!
1 January 2007, on 6:18 pm
Lynda wrote:
I can respect that opinion. But personally I find it rude when people can’t be bothered to use proper grammer. Sure, I understand that it’s easy to get caught up in the idiom used by most of the people around you and slip into shoddy speech.
However, some of the old-timers here (site-wise, not choronological age) often chastise fundies for their lack of proper spelling and grammar. So, I would expect that we wouldn’t be hypocrites about that, and accept such criticism amongst ourselves more graciously.
1 January 2007, on 6:20 pm
Zipi wrote:
Actually I find those who learned English as a second language often speak it more correctly than native speakers. Probably because they learned it as a matter of necessity and therefore paid more attention to the idiosynchrasies.
1 January 2007, on 6:35 pm
“Well, I could stay a bitlonger…”
3 January 2007, on 12:43 am
you ALL be write gooder thaN ME, MAKE You feel smRT and superier. You despyzs student caUSE THEY don’t get your BIG brAINS. Makes good for educate? Heard you Do more coke at Xmas and sing bestest aND IMPRESS stuped clueless family. They Not even notice cok in knows. HA. Maybe thyey just sad you problem and love you antway? sad sad teacher. Where be love?, no compasion, no understanding for charges. empty empty critical thinker, why so sure no god? no open mind? reached conklusion alreaDY? SOund just like silly god beliver to me. Same coin, two side.
3 January 2007, on 12:47 am
your MAMA …
say waaa??? WTF?
Is someone here playing a prank and your MAMA is a spoof?
3 January 2007, on 11:12 am
MAMA
ROTFLMAO!!