Response to Karen Hunter and Jesse Peterson
24 February 2007 by Stardust
Going back to Bob’s posts “Okay, Take Two”, and “Ready to Vomit” that include video segments of Paula Zahn and CNN on “atheists in Amerikkka,” I would like to point out that tommy (also known here as tommykey) at Exercise in Futility has written an excellent response dedicated to Karen Hunter and Jesse Peterson titled “Where My Values Come From.”
A segment from tommy’s post:
In short, I believe in civilization, liberty, justice, human rights, personal responsibility, accountability ,and the spirit of self betterment. While Jesse Peterson boasts that he gets his values from the Bible, I derive my values from the wisdom and knowledge accumulated by the human race from thousands of years of experience. You see, what Karen Hunter, Jesse Peterson and countless others fail to realize is while they focus on the comings and goings of a collection of semi-nomadic tribes between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, complex and sophisticated civilizations thrived in Egypt, Crete, Greece, Asia Minor, Mesopotamia, along the banks of the Indus River and in China. The Israelites and their collection of tales that would eventually comprise the Old Testament had no impact on the development of these civilizations.
*snip*
It is only very recently in human affairs, say the last two or three centuries, that it has become possible for an educated person to have access to the moral and ethical traditions of cultures outside of his own. Nowadays, anyone can go to a local library or Barnes & Noble bookstore to find books about the Greek philosophers, ‘The Analects’ of Confucius, the texts of Hinduism and Buddhism, along with the Bible and virtually every great work that has been written and published up to the present day. Because we live in a predominantly Christian country, it is to be expected that the Bible will have a greater hold on the imaginations of most Americans. But as the Clarence Darrow character in “Inherit the Wind” says of the Bible, “It is a good book, but it is not the only book.” When considering the collective wisdom of humanity, the Bible is but one of many pillars of human civilization. So, when Jesse Peterson boasts that he gets his values from the Bible, I would tell him that the source of his values is much poorer and limited than mine.
It’s a rather long post, but well worth taking the time to read in its entirety.
24 February 2007, on 10:43 am
I would say that most xians already do cherry-pick good parts of the bible and the rest left to rot and that everything in the bible cannot be accepted as “good” or “moral”.
An example that tommy gives is:
24 February 2007, on 1:28 pm
I’ve already commented on Tommy’s thread, but reiterate it here since I think that the point made by in the thread by the Bacon Eating Atheist Jew is highly relevant:
Good stuff, Tommy, and thanks for bringing it to my attention Stardust.
24 February 2007, on 4:52 pm
It is laughable to hear xtians tell me they get their values from the bible. The obvious response we (the damned) have is “which part, the part about slavery? Ther part about torturing your prisoners or stoning your children?” Anyway, it’s definitely more challanging raising kids and not having the easy out of telling then “because that’s what the bible says”. Remembering how much I liked reading the book while I was in 4th grade, I took my 2 kids to see “Bridge To Terabithia” last night and was happily reminded of why I liked the book as a kid. The main character “Leslie” is pretty much atheist, openly questioning the legitimacy of the bible and christianity in one schene when the kids are riding home in the back of a truck after church. The two other kids both tell her that she will be “damned to hell” for not believing the bible, but she doesn’t let them get to her.
Semi-kudos to Disney.
24 February 2007, on 4:56 pm
Such valuable infomation…Stardust, Tommy and Old Git!
Meanwhile, our world media wastes hours, dragging out…endlessly…coverage of the minutia related to relatively unimportant stories. The recent U.S. example…Anna Nicole Smith’s rotting carcass…ala James Brown?…awaits burial…as well as the DNA outcome and the settling of the absolute insane haggling over money; whilst the ghoulish public are wondering whose sperm spawned her last progeny.
SHEESH!…
Or to rephrase a previous comment:
“Will wonders NEVER cease?”
A REAL wonder would be the media spending SOME time…educating the public about the truth of how and where humans really got the ideas that you GifSters were so eloquently discussing!
24 February 2007, on 7:27 pm
From the quote of Tommy’s post: But as the Clarence Darrow character in “Inherit the Wind” says of the Bible, “It is a good book, but it is not the only book.”
The more one reads about different cultures the less “good” one finds in the Bible. It ranks very close to the bottom of my list of good books.
Christians like to present their morality as worthy of duplication and therefore the source seems important, but if you do not accept their version of morality as worthwhile then their source is irrelevant. I do not accept their questionable morality as anything other than living in fear of punishment based on laws that have very little basis in many natural societies.
Go to the zoo and watch primates behave for an afternoon where lying and deceipt are very easily identified and likely necessary for their survival. Apply the “Ten Commandments” to their behavior. It makes no sense.
If there is not ultimate state of being, no plane of perfection to reach, what are we striving to achieve? Peaceful co-existence? I don’t know. I’m still very much working on what my morals are at this point. And human history has not been of much help.
24 February 2007, on 7:34 pm
Oh, by primates, I meant the ones locked in the cages and enclosures, not the ones paying entrance fees.
24 February 2007, on 8:19 pm
Thank you all for your kind words and to Stardust for the free publicity!
Lynda, regarding animal cooperation, interestingly enough, when a group of dolphins are feeding off a school of fish, they do not all pounce on the fish at once in a free for all. Instead, they form a circle around the fish to keep them contained, and then each dolphin takes a turn grabbing a fish so that the entire school of fish does not scatter.
Speaking of Christians, I put up a new post on my blog today about a bumper sticker I saw on a car that really irked me, and it attracted comments from a couple of Christians on my blog who I had never seen before.
24 February 2007, on 11:28 pm
Yes, Tommy, many animals use cooperative techniques for hunting. Chimpanzees also gang up to war against neighboring troops when they need more territory or to hunt down other primates living in their neck of the woods.