“She’s a Killer Queen” – The Black One
1 May 2007 by Eve
As we journey east from Ereshkigal’s ancient Sumer in West Asia to the sub-continent of India, we find a goddess blacker than any other in face and nature ruling over violence, death, destruction, and paradoxically, sexuality and motherly love. Her origins lie so far back in the mists of human history that time obscures her as much as her inky color, and the many religious, philosophical, and mystical accretions she has acquired over the ages now coat her primeval core like the layers of a great black pearl.
And yet, despite relatively recent devotion to her as a largely benevolent figure, her original associations with disease and annihilation persist in the sheer visceral impact of her horrific image, which easily continues to resist efforts to “tone it down” or explain it away. If you’ve guessed I’m talking about the dread Kali (Sanskrit for feminine “black” or “dark,” also meaning “time”), infamous for her appearance in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, well – you’re right.
She first appears in the Rig-veda (1700 – 1100 BCE) as the black flame of the seven flickering tongues of flame or rays of light haloing Agni, god of the sacrificial fire. The hymns often describe his passage through the woods as a “blackened path,” convincingly associating her color and character with the desolation left in the wake of flames. Raatri, the RV’s veiled goddess of night, serves as a proto-Kali figure in her aspect as the Barren or Dark One who holds dominion over shadows, evil spirits, and other invisible things, and inhabits gloomy nocturnal regions.
Literature from the Sangam era (200 BCE – 300 CE) of the ancient Tamils mentions a goddess of war and victory dreadful enough to also presage Kali. Kottravai wears her hair disheveled; holds banquets on corpse-strewn battlefields; and builds her temples on burial grounds or lives in forests attended by spirits. She presides over the poetry of paalai (referring to both arid land and a hardy Indian evergreen), with deals with separation and hardship through images of drought-parched landscape; exhausted animals like elephants, tigers, and wolves; and dry wells, and features nomadic tribes, bandits, warriors, and the goddess’ dancing oracular priestesses.
Kali first appears as most now know her in the Devi Mahatmya (300 – 600 CE). When the angry gods gather against the invulnerable buffalo demon Mahishashura, their faces radiate light from the heat of their wrath into the immanent cosmic goddess Devi, who incarnates as the beautiful but terrifying war deity Durga. Riding a lion and wielding swords, nooses, and other weapons including her teeth and thousands of hands, the goddess thrashes the demonic army and kills Mahishashura himself by cutting off the head of his real form as it flees his trapped buffalo body.
Many people seem to think that Kali shows up in battle but interestingly enough, she doesn’t, although her entrance is foreshadowed when Durga drinks (!) during her battle with the demon until her face suffuses with dark color. The war goddess is actually chilling out (literally!) alone on the snowy peaks of the Himalayas when two more demons, Chanda and Munda, arrive with their troops to bug her. Their boss Sumbha has heard of her surpassing loveliness and not content with her rejection, has ordered them to bring her to him, by force if necessary.
So not a smart thing to do to the divinity who just single-handedly brought down a supposedly invincible demon buffalo; in her rage, she turns ink blue and from her frowning forehead springs a third goddess: howling, pitch-black, red-eyed Kali.
Long-tongued, wild-haired, gaunt-bodied, tiger skin-clad, skull-garlanded, and armed with a sword, Durga’s strangling noose, and skull-topped staff, she hurls herself at the army and begins to eat it, whole. Elephants she snatches up and stuffs into her gaping mouth; chariots and weapons she crunches with her fangs; demons she devours or stabs or beats to death. Jumping astride Durga’s lion, she fights and decapitates both Chanda and Munda in quick succession, earning herself the name “Chamunda” when she laughingly presents their gory heads to the proud battle deity.
Her blood thirst proves contagious; ignoring Durga’s call to surrender and withdraw to the underworld, Sumbha and his brother Nisumbha march against her and Kali. The other gods detach their own female counterparts and send these Matrkas into the fray. The great demon Raktabija strides forward, only to be struck by one of the deities’ thunderbolt, but the otherworldly don’t die so easily; for each drop of his blood that touches the ground, a fully-formed duplicate springs up to fight the goddesses. Soon thousands upon thousands of his copies threaten to defeat the gods and overwhelm the earth.
Upon Durga’s orders, Kali fastens herself upon Raktabija and begins to drink his blood from every wound on his body. With lightning speed, she then consumes all his copies with an insatiable appetite and turns back on him. As Durga rains blows upon him with all her arms and weapons, Kali continues to suck his blood until wounded and drained, the dried husk of a demon simply drops. Now that’s a real vampire for you!
At one point in the combat, she stamps so hard upon the earth it trembles, once again reasserting her overwhelming strength and force; Durga ultimately absorbs her and the Matrkas into herself to rid heaven, earth, and underworld of the demon menace for good.
Later Indian texts continue to tie Durga and Kali closely together, so that Durga’s husband Shiva acts as spouse to her more forceful aspect as well. The Daksinakali, the most common depiction of Kali, shows her dancing/stamping on his prone form; he controls her by playing dead and thus shaming or shocking her into better behavior. She now popularly appears as a desirable, outright voluptuous woman, perhaps an example of that “civilizing” effect we like to apply to our more primitive, savage, uncomfortable myths and archetypes.
Fortunately, there are many more Killer Queens out there—!
1 May 2007, on 6:56 pm
Eve - This was quite interesting to read since I just read this story not too long ago about a man who cut off his tongue to please this very same goddess. So, apparently she still has a following. I meant to look her up and read more about her, and never got around to it…so thanks! What a “megabitch” this Killer Queen is! (And how stupidly superstitious humans continue to be.)
Man cuts off tongue to please Hindu goddess, Kali
1 May 2007, on 7:14 pm
Yessss, there are, ssssweetie! *snap* *snap*
1 May 2007, on 11:33 pm
There is quite a large following of Kali. I went to Gujarat about 8 years ago with a friend to see a wedding. While there, we organized a road trip to try to see India’s remaining lion population in a national forest southeast of where we were staying, our guide “Guruji” was a priest of the Kali cult.
I will never forget that drive, and the way the locals treated us when we arrived at their doorsteps with Guruji to ask for food and a place to stay for the night. The first night, a family took us in and literally worshipped us. The family took my friend and I and sat us on their cot, removed our sandals and (I’m not making this up) poured cool water over our bare feet in to a basin. They then drank the water while we stifled our giggle/embarassment, they told us that for them, guests such as us are the “hands of god”.
After a couple more similar awkward situations, my friend and I joked privately how easy it would be to abuse this priviledge, saying something like “hands of god could use a drink over here, maybe another pillow”, and form our own cult. Seriously though, you haven’t seen true superstition until you’ve spent some time in India.
2 May 2007, on 12:14 am
Is she also dynamite with a laser beam?
Kali also appeared in the recent Armageddon arc of the Spawn comic series (which depicted Creation, a female, as more powerful than god or the devil, which were depicted as constantly bickering siblings).
She beat the crap out of Spawn until two people gave up the soul of their lost baby (I think. All I remember is the two people). It was a pretty bad ass fight. Although Kali was depicted as big boobed, four armed, and blue.
2 May 2007, on 9:47 am
Eve, are you telling me that people still worship this lady? And when you say “recent devotion as a largely benevolent figure”, do you mean that those people rationalize that she is all good? I guess I should not be surprised given how Christians call the god of the OT good, but still.
Hm…, on second thought, I would like to see a fight between Yahweh and Kali. Oh, yes, teach him a lesson!
2 May 2007, on 10:00 am
are you telling me that people still worship this lady?
Zipi, see link in comment #1. Mind boggling.
2 May 2007, on 12:10 pm
Zipi, indeed people still do, although not exactly in her most ancient, dreadful persona; they have rationalized and civilized her into a more esoteric, mystical figure most often closely linked with the god Shiva as her husband.
However, as Star’s post points out, some devotees still respond quite literally to her lingering identification as the bloodthirsty, all-devouring incarnation of time and death. I guess you could say they’re inspired to worship her this way! A long tradition both oral and written associates the worship of her and similar Indian goddesses with frenzied self-mutilation and other forms of blood sacrifice (and possibly in the distant past, human sacrifice; hmm - sounds oddly familiar).
Matt, not only that, but she’s “guaranteed to blow your mind - any time!” I believe some Tantric traditions equate her with Creation as well…
2 May 2007, on 12:35 pm
For those who can’t get the link to work in comment #1 or who don’t have time to wait for it to load, here is the news article about a modern day Kali worshipper:
(”True Xians” should pay special attention how he describes himself as a “true disciple” of the goddess.)
2 May 2007, on 12:41 pm
Actually, the worshipers of Kali tend to be Thuggee’s - a particularly bloodthirsty lot, who strangle their victims as sacrifices to their grisly goddess.
Religion - bringing out the best in people since the dawn of recorded history.
2 May 2007, on 12:44 pm
KA - Nice people…NOT!
Yes, another fine example of how god/goddess fantasy doesn’t make the world a better place.
2 May 2007, on 12:50 pm
Sorry I missed you before, Warren! *snaps back*
Nathan, I’ve heard that a lot about India. Its secular movement has set itself a huge task.
Matt, Kali is often shown as blue- or blue-black-skinned instead of outright black, since her name can mean just “dark” as well as “black” and “inky” is another adjective frequently used to describe her skin color. Her most frequent portrayals show her with four arms as well, although the Devi doesn’t specify that.
I don’t know if I let on in my post, but I’m fascinated by this goddess in her earliest, darkest, most dreadful form. I think much of the esoteric, mystical, philosophical “’splaining” of her that’s been done over the years is a pretty desperate attempt to control what she represents by somehow justifying/taming/”whitewashing” her.
No, I’m not talking about her as an actual supernatural, super-powered entity (I’m an atheist, remember? ;-)), but as a symbol, an archetype, a representation of observed and experienced forces. On one level, she represents the stuff that scares the shit out of us because no matter what we do or say, we can’t control it. Time and death are both dark because utterly unknown, and “devouring” because starkly inevitable. Kali’s appetite is insatiable because everyone and everything eventually falls in complete defeat to time and death. Her “beautification” and desirability is, I think, the Hindu equivalent of Xian salvation: an imaginative, figurative way of foiling the great villainess.
Except that we can’t, and that’s why I personally find her uncompromisingly dark persona the most accurate, albeit horrifying. Time/death will darken/engulf us all, Hindus and Xians included, and no matter what anyone believes, says, or practices, that is truly all we know absolutely for sure.
2 May 2007, on 12:51 pm
Zipi:
Hm…, on second thought, I would like to see a fight between Yahweh and Kali. Oh, yes, teach him a lesson!
That would make a great Pay Per View Ultimate fighting match!
2 May 2007, on 2:55 pm
Xians think that this belief is in a false god. Little do they realize that most of us here think that way about all gods.
That would be a great pay per view. Maybe we should start a movement to invite both of them and see which one shows.
2 May 2007, on 3:01 pm
Toni:
Yes it would, but I’m not gonna pay $30 for something that lasts ten seconds into the first round.
-Berlzebub
2 May 2007, on 3:21 pm
Jimmer:
I bet we could make money at this, get the Hindu freaks to give us money to entice their god, and get the christian freaks to give us money to entice their god. Now mind you, no refunds if they don’t show up.
I would then contact a bookie and put money on a cancellation due to no show.
2 May 2007, on 4:10 pm
As usual, Eve, “Nice Posting!”…however, in this particular case…
(ala old “Laugh-in’s”: Artie Johnson): “Veeeeerrry interrressshting…
but “Shhtupid!”?
‘Foist’, I do give credit to the Eastern religions for a LEAST giving first rank power to goddesses…unlike the Western Patriarchal religions…with only the intermediary, second rate…and only the Catholics, for that matter…the so-called “Virgin Mother”; or the specially chosen: “Queen of Heaven” shtick!
(All other women are treated, at least by the extreme Orthodox types, as some kind of subserviant chattel, that, preferrably should be uneducated, veiled, segregated…but deep throated?…yada, yada!)
That said…I can’t help noticing that…
Religions, being the original archetypical ‘models’ of Sado/Masochism; is it any wonder that society is rife with so many S/M secular versions?
Thinking of the Kali ‘tongue chopping’ story and the plethora of various “Guru” body piercing demonstrations; I’m not at all surprised at the tattooing and body piercing going on in today’s so-called ‘civilized’ cultures.
It used to be the province of the archetypal drunken sailor, whilst on shore leave, coming back with “Mom”, or some such, tattooed somewhere, prominently, on HIS arm.
My!…how things have changed…and how much more civilized we’ve become!…?
OK…I’ll never understand why any (sober?) young woman thinks that some stupid tattoo is going to enhance her breast or buttocks…or…
whateva!
Of course, the extreme, perhaps, is when a tattoo afficionado wants to morph into “Mr./Ms. Snake”…or “Joe/Josephina Leopard”?
Yeah…you’re right, guys!…I’ve REALLY gotten old!
Maybe, I just need a tattoo? Something like…
“Hi! I’m a senile old Atheist fart…Got a problem with that?”
Hmmm…Now, WHERE would that fit?
What’s that?…bend over? ;(
2 May 2007, on 6:14 pm
^ I agree, ChuckA! Rather than just write the unpalatable (to most men, anyway) aspects of womanhood off as evil, impure, and unclean like the ancient Hebrews did, at least the Hindus acknowledged them in their mythology with pretty powerful symbols and archetypes.
For example, some of the commentary I read on Kali speculates that her overwhelming association with blood comes from an early attempt to give meaning to menstruation, female hemorrhaging, and miscarriage, so incomprehensible and horrifying in those unscientific days. This would also fit with her unreasoningly ferocious character, chomping males to bits during her hormonal rampages!
As for tattoing and body piercing, your comments remind me of an idea for a post I’ve been chasing around in my mind for a while; I really need to corner it and write something!
2 May 2007, on 6:29 pm
Fortunately, there are many more Killer Queens out there—!
Does this mean you will be changing the name of the site to “Gods are 4 suckers?”
2 May 2007, on 6:44 pm
I am almost done reading the Old Testament. I think I am going to skip the New Testament and go for some Hindu mythology instead. It sounds much more exciting than the Judeo-Christian myth! Eve, can you recommend a good place to start?
3 May 2007, on 2:41 am
Now, I’m as atheist as the next fellow here, but it was always my understanding that Kali was the goddess of destruction and rebirth; an incarnation of the understanding that death is necessary to sustain and make way for new life.
But that might be part of the more modern whitewashing. I hadn’t been exposed to the old myths. It is quite a tale.
3 May 2007, on 7:15 am
According to my evidence god was created in the image of man not the other way round. No surprise then that they can fabricate something like Yawheh or KALI. Men are not perfect therefore they create imperfect gods
4 May 2007, on 3:28 pm
Zipi, try here; it’s got links to translations (English) of what look like most of Hinduism’s major writings, as well as brief descriptions of their contents (philosophy, theology, ritual, storytelling, etc.). It only links to two of the 18 Puranas, however, neither one of which contains the Devi Mahatmya (Durga-Kali’s story), which you can read here.
Have fun! If you thought those ancient Hebrews wrote a lot…
Thomas A., rebirth has certainly been associated with Kali during most of traditional Hinduism’s history, and interpreting even her oldest myths via this approach continues to be the most popular. I tend to subscribe to Camille Paglia’s theory, that her still-lingering dreadful aspects are her oldest attributes, and that early devotees probably worshipped a much simpler, straightforward, just plain scary figure. For Paglia, the chthonic (and dreadful) announces antiquity, and for the most part I think she’s right.
She also blames feminist and/or female scholars for some of the whitewashing and I agree; it’s very common to view any dark or “negative” depiction with female characteristics as “demonization” of women, anti-feminism, and/or misogyny, and I just don’t think that’s always true. Women have dark, destructive sides to their natures just like men do but usually manifested differently, and recognizing that fact is hardly demonization in and of itself (I’m not denying it doesn’t happen; I just think that portrayals of goddesses as dark and destructive are just as realistic as images of them as sweet and nurturing, that’s all). As always, scholars rarely accuse the Patriarchy of demonizing men by ascribing dark and destructive aspects to male gods.
BANGAMPIKI, ramen! Our gods are made in our image.
5 May 2007, on 8:42 pm
Check out this story
Couple burned alive for “black magic”
6 May 2007, on 6:12 pm
One thing that makes Salman Rushdie such a solid atheist and humanist is that India is his culture, and he’s intimately familiar with many many superstitions and insanities beyond the Western Judeo-Christian experience. Rushdie’s family belonged to the Islamic minority in India. His writing about his home country are laced with a good bit of sorrow, introspection, and philosophical head-shaking.
7 May 2007, on 2:23 pm
Star, I think those who currently worship Kali as a benevolent mother goddess with complex philosophical and mystical overlays could be compared to xianity’s theologians, scholars, and apologists. Those still relating to both gods - xianity’s and Kali - as literal, dreadful, demanding deities are the sheeple, who of course always outnumber the “professionals” and may be the ones more likely to commit atrocities in those divinities’ names.
JJR, I must admit I haven’t read enough Rushdie; so many books, so little time…
16 May 2007, on 12:30 am
It is funny to see how “experts” “interpret” something and other “sheeps” follow and try to be cool and literally for lack of better term - pass gas. (it is ironic , i am forced to comment, becuase artists and whole liberal leftist have lived a dreadful dream of utopian world which does not exist where no god, no inequality etc does not exist)
Get over it atheist buggers :). You are trying to fathom why you are here and what happens when you die - swoosh - your form, your being disppears :). You are no more, Deny it, death in any form will come and you will part of something unexplainable.
Stop being the cultured “talibanists” and try to impose your view as the best and treat everybody else as superstious or dumb or backward (oh god I am talking to folks who were raised thinking it is their job to liberate other folks - south americans natives, north american natives etc…sorry they were liberated from their own faiths to another “more polished one” since it is fairer in color.)
Since I have ranted enough, it is obligatory to explain what I understand of Kali as I am part and parcel of the religion whose one form you have taken to task.
Misconception clearance
- simple no layers. They say god exists - and has this form. You just deny the existence. Period. No embellishments.
1. People worship the form without questioning the appearance and different areas have different ways of worshipping and even clothing the goddess.
2. Just becuase female form is worshipped, does not mean people really respect females, just like anywhere else in the world people mistreat them. period. Yes in old days female was respected but still enchained via lot of day to day restrictions prevalent everywhere.
3. Chances are women anyway work way more than men in India. They literally run the household.
4. People worship her, not becuase they are afraid or have attached super metaphysical meanings but they just have faith. Just like you folks profess atheism as faith
5. Nathan - respect is always reserved for people who are percieved to be closer to God. ?Unfortunately few people misuse it and do start cult and proper capitalism inspired business with G&A :). A place where you get physical and mental cures and mumbo jumbo. But to be fair there are people who do not take anything, do not want the following, do not need the clothes or other embellisments like vehicles,house etc and just wander around to find the truth. It is these selfless people who are really supposed to be closer to truth with no affinity to a god(female/male).
6. Zipi - people worship her in large number specially in state called west Bengal.
7. Color of Goddess - she is the personification of power who is destructive, creative all at the same time. Her form being without clothes is not something normal people worry or think about, they just accept it :). You english brutes got us this sense of shame
in a tropical country like ours - we do not need coat and tie :).
On secondary note - different regions interpret god in their own image - south indian temples have different forms for different gods. BTW it is all allowed - since no one human incarnation or book rules us all :).
9. There is obscure part of the philosphy which deals with “no god, no form, i am god”. But in general people can’t fathom it or understand it as it requires lot of hardwork so we worship various forms. Hopefully that is hurting your sentiments or intelligence. Faith is what moves you and billions of other people. Whether subject of faith is not there or is there was not proven earlier will not be proven later.
So accept it , you are just small invertebrate with better modula oblangata. Most of your thoughts are nothing more than chemical reactions and morality is just a facade you wear to disguise true chemicals (ahh feelings - heck what are they).
So stopp dissing around other people and faiths when you cannot fathom something. Just accept it there are people of different kind, no not tolerate, accept. And move on. It takes all kind to run this place.
16 May 2007, on 3:58 am
For rushdie fans and followers - we have a saying - “in the land of visually challenged, one eyed is the king”.
1. Bottomline - Muslims are not a minority, (one of the reasons government could not implement chinease style restriction on one family one child). India unfortunately is not homgenous amalgamation of americas or old europe where everybody follows one religion, one book, one place of piligrimage, one langauge, one culture. We are hopelessly fragmented and everybody is minority looking for that elusive majority (political movements have tried to “sieze” and compartmentalize but failed) to pile on.
2. If you stay in 5 star and pass by slum in air conditioned car - you do not know the land anymore. Even if you pose with some NGO doing good work, you still are out of touch. (Just find out when was it that last sulman rushdie stayed in india).
16 May 2007, on 4:35 am
Krystalline Apostate - You are trillion light years away from ground(are you artist, recent convert to being card carrying liberalist, historian, musician, leftist :). Sorry - what is it that you are smoking
. Apologies for generalization, in a way just like the religious right people formed a philosophy and way to control people’s minds, there is similar way to on this side which is being blessed with people with less grey matter. I had to be harsh here as your comment is next to being dumb.
For record - Kali is worshipped in different forms in most part of the country. West bengal has most ardent devotees. But that does not mean they are all thugees. BTW Thug in local tounge means - a cunning person who will hoodwink you of your belongings. It is used as slang for conniving folks.
Don’t believe everything that is written or recorded by self styled historians. A set of people were called thugees who were not as brutal as your sentence comes out.
Just imagine - if catastrophe happens only right wing/religious written thought books survive, their world view survives. thousand year later some historian will pick it up and it might become the truth. In similar way left/colonizer interpretation of the reality will be tinged with thought. Which is true in most of the recent history.
19 November 2007, on 8:25 pm
govind, first of all, I must warn you that since your English is difficult to understand, you run the risk of being misinterpreted.
It is funny to see how “experts” “interpret” something and other “sheeps” follow and try to be cool and literally for lack of better term - pass gas.
Translation: Since Eve is not govind, she’s not a True Expert ™, and since her interpretation differs from govind’s, it’s not a True Interpretation ™, so anyone who agrees with Eve instead of govind is a sheep (presumably if they do agree with govind, they really are cool and not just “passing gas” – which so far govind is doing in a really big way).
(it is ironic , i am forced to comment, becuase artists and whole liberal leftist have lived a dreadful dream of utopian world which does not exist where no god, no inequality etc does not exist)
What the fuck? Have you bothered to read any of the other posts and the many comments on this site? You must be confusing us with figments of your imagination.
Get over it atheist buggers .
I’m not tackling this comment first in my response, but it’s the reason I’ve decided not to pull any punches with you. If you’re going to come into someone else’s home and crap on the carpet, you’re going to get your nose rubbed in it.
You are trying to fathom why you are here
No, not really. Most of us have realized that we, not some imaginary unproven being, are the authors of our lives and it’s up to us what we want our existences to mean.
and what happens when you die - swoosh - your form, your being disppears . You are no more, Deny it, death in any form will come
That is the most likely scenario when we die, which gives us all the more reason for making the most of the lives we’re living right now, instead of copping out and saying it’ll all be worked out in another life or in some magical fairy realm above the clouds after we kick the bucket.
and you will part of something unexplainable.
Hardly; scientists know pretty accurately what happens to us after we die. Oh, you mean our souls, not our bodies? Well, for starters, give us hard scientific evidence that there is such a thing as a “soul.”
Stop being the cultured “talibanists” and try to impose your view as the best and treat everybody else as superstious or dumb or backward (oh god I am talking to folks who were raised thinking it is their job to liberate other folks - south americans natives, north american natives etc…sorry they were liberated from their own faiths to another “more polished one” since it is fairer in color.)
Now you’re confusing us with xian missionaries, I take it; you really don’t know what “atheist” means, do you?
And for the record, cutting your tongue out as a sacrifice to the goddess Kali counts as superstitious, dumb, and backward all in one. It isn’t just Europeans and Americans who see it that way, but Indians too, especially those in the secularist movement; boy, do they have their work cut out (pun intended) for them if assholes like you see nothing wrong with crap like this.
Since I have ranted enough, it is obligatory to explain what I understand of Kali as I am part and parcel of the religion whose one form you have taken to task.
Why? You have no scientific evidence that the goddess Kali actually exists, and that is what we require to consider her as anything other than another concept of divinity invented by human beings.
Misconception clearance
1. People worship the form…[snip]…we worship various forms.
None of this lecture has anything to do with my post. I describe Kali as a character in written mythology, not as a being that really exists, since there is absolutely no scientific evidence for that. Details of her worship as it is carried out today are interesting from the psychological and anthropological point of view, but no one here believes the goddess exists in reality – except perhaps you.
Now, my misconception clearance:
1. Just like you folks profess atheism as faith : Liar. Atheism is not a faith, and we do not profess it as such. Not-collecting-stamps is not a hobby.
2. You english brutes got us this sense of shame : Wow, you’re a real bigot, aren’t you? Assuming we’re English, calling us brutes, accusing us of having a sense of shame – if I were ashamed of human nudity, I wouldn’t choose unclothed female images to accompany my mythology posts.
Now, if you’re talking about xian and muslim fundy English brutes – yeah, I agree with you: they have a huge sense of shame about the human body in general.
3. in a tropical country like ours - we do not need coat and tie .: And in cold northern areas where some of us live, if you don’t wear a coat, you die. Point, please?
4. There is obscure part of the philosphy which deals with “no god, no form, i am god”. But in general people can’t fathom it or understand it as it requires lot of hardwork: We have that problem, too; people have been so brainwashed into believing in supernatural cosmic micromanagers who require constant grovelling in order not to smite and perhaps help them that they find it hard to wrap their minds around the idea that such beings just don’t seem to exist at all. And yet, many more individuals become atheists every day, even if they don’t openly admit it; I wonder why?
Now I for one have been known to refer to myself as a goddess…
5. so Hopefully that is hurting your sentiments or intelligence. No, actually we have no problem at all with the idea that there is no god/dess. Again, you don’t seem to understand what atheism is.
6. Faith is what moves you and billions of other people. Define “faith.” To us, especially in the religious context, it means blind faith, as in believing in something for which you have no proof. Given this definition, “faith” does not “move” atheists.
7. Whether subject of faith is not there or is there was not proven earlier will not be proven later. If faith = blind faith, that’s our point: there is no scientific evidence for the existence of god. If there is in the future, we’ll be the first to want to look at it.
8. So accept it , you are just small invertebrate with better modula oblangata. Most of your thoughts are nothing more than chemical reactions I think you mean “small vertebrates with a better medula oblongata” – but actually I agree with you on this.
9. and morality is just a facade you wear to disguise true chemicals (ahh feelings - heck what are they). This makes no sense; what the fuck are you trying to say, that atheists fake our morals? I hate to disappoint you, but our morals are a lot more genuine than yours, since we don’t need the trappings of blind faith and religion to be motivated into getting along with others. I for one have not robbed any banks or raped any boys since developing my atheism.
10. So stopp dissing around other people and faiths when you cannot fathom something. Just accept it there are people of different kind, no not tolerate, accept. And move on. It takes all kind to run this place.
Bullshit. This is just another way of saying, “Shut up, atheists; don’t you dare criticize religion, especially my religion!” No deal, bub; if you don’t like what we say on this website, then don’t come on here trying to bully us into babying you and your particular set of beliefs.
India unfortunately is not homgenous amalgamation of americas or old europe where everybody follows one religion, one book, one place of piligrimage, one langauge, one culture.
And you call us ignorant about history, culture, and society? I hate to break it to you, but the Americas and old Europe have never been homogenous. The closest we’ve gotten is the imposition of English and Spanish on native peoples in the Americas, and even then many native languages have managed to survive, albeit barely.
And really, dude, what is your problem with artists?! India itself is rife with them, as indeed is all humanity!
20 November 2007, on 2:33 am
Govind:
. Sorry - what is it that you are smoking 
.
Krystalline Apostate - You are trillion light years away from ground(are you artist, recent convert to being card carrying liberalist, historian, musician, leftist
No, none of those things. I’m a card-carrying atheist, that’s about it. I don’t do drugs. Reality’s pretty sweet w/o it.
Apologies for generalization, in a way just like the religious right people formed a philosophy and way to control people’s minds, there is similar way to on this side which is being blessed with people with less grey matter.
Then it wouldn’t be too gauche, then, to tell you to go fuck yourself?
I had to be harsh here as your comment is next to being dumb.
Not at all. Your religious inclinations may very well put you into the lower percentile of the I.Q stratum.
For record - Kali is worshipped in different forms in most part of the country.
Oh, sure, Dhurga being 1 of them. I AM familiar w/the varieties of worship in India.
West bengal has most ardent devotees. But that does not mean they are all thugees.
I’ll take that as a correction - howsabout they tended to be Thuggees? There, does the past tense make you feel better? Phansigars were outlawed by late 19th early 20th CE, no?
BTW Thug in local tounge means - a cunning person who will hoodwink you of your belongings. It is used as slang for conniving folks.
Ummm…that’s what it means now, but in American parlance, it’s what all the rappers call themselves. Meaning: a no-nonsense criminal who is willing to ‘pop a cap in someone’s ass’, talks a lotta garbage, etc.
Don’t believe everything that is written or recorded by self styled historians. A set of people were called thugees who were not as brutal as your sentence comes out.
So, does that mean they didn’t quite strangle as many folks as was originally attributed to them?
As to this:
So stopp dissing around other people and faiths when you cannot fathom something. Just accept it there are people of different kind, no not tolerate, accept. And move on. It takes all kind to run this place.
I beg your fucking pardon, but I fathom it all quite well, thanks. An overabundance of gullibility is not necessarily a lack of imagination or a lack of understanding.
I certainly accept that people do & believe some fairly idiotic things. But I deem it my right to call it foolish as I see fit.
20 November 2007, on 2:43 am
Oh, this just beggars the imagination:
Stop being the cultured “talibanists” and try to impose your view as the best and treat everybody else as superstious or dumb or backward (oh god I am talking to folks who were raised thinking it is their job to liberate other folks - south americans natives, north american natives etc…sorry they were liberated from their own faiths to another “more polished one” since it is fairer in color.)
Oh, sod off & get over yourself. If you think you’re going to play the ‘liberal guilt’ card, you really do live in a dream world.
People do stupid fucking things. No matter what color they are.
I’m Irish, you daft twat. Do you understand what that means? We were just about always considered the white trash of Europe - fit fer nuthin’ more than drinkin’, whorin’ & fightin’. So don’t be layin’ yer stereotypes at MY door, me lad. Ne’er mind the rich traditions, the long stories, the poetry, the elevation o’ the bard o’er the king. Nor the loyalty to kith ‘n kin.
EVERY race on earth’s done some shit things, me boyo. Yours, mine, everyone’s.
Sure, the white boy’s way ahead. But the rest’ll catch up, rest assured.
So cry me a fuckin’ river, & sod off, you sad bastard.
20 November 2007, on 12:26 pm
Hey, if anyone has the right to play a guilt card, it’s me as a woman! >:-D
Frankly, I think govind is pissed off that we don’t take his religion seriously. I guess big powerful monotheistic faiths are fair game, but poor widdle victimized hindus should get a free pass.
He doesn’t know us that well at all, does he?
20 November 2007, on 1:34 pm
I have no evidence for the Goddess Kali, but the Goddess Cali sits beside me now. She has four legs and beautiful long hair, and assumes the feline form. She commands that I massage her sinuses.
21 November 2007, on 4:49 pm
^ She sounds gorgeous! Is she the Persian, Maine Coon, or other long-haired avatar?
22 November 2007, on 11:31 am
It seems that Govind’s a hit-’n-runner. They pick a post, wait until other posts push it into the archives, & then drop their little ‘nuggets o’ wisdom’ when the likelihood is no one’ll see ‘em.
Yeah, real brave.