“Who’s that knocking at my door?”
11 May 2007 by Naomi
Bullshit is just “obfuscation with a foul odor”…
In Opening the door for us all, Joel P. Engardio tries to make the case for tolerating Jehovah’s Witnesses. And fails. Miserably, in my opinion.
Please excuse me if I ever disrupted your laundry, yard work or nap by knocking on your door. A Jehovah’s Witness on your front porch is not a Girl Scout with cookies or a neighbor out of sugar. So I understand why you cursed and slammed the door. My Watchtower magazine and other Bible literature, with messages on morality and “false” religion, can be heavy reading. But did you really need to sic your dog on me?
Oh, boo-hoo-hoo…
Allowing Jehovah’s Witnesses to knock door-to-door says a lot about the freedoms we value in America: religion, speech and personal liberty. It isn’t easy letting people fully exercise their rights when you don’t agree with their message or lifestyle. It seems threatening, which explains our current culture war. Jehovah’s Witnesses uniquely demonstrate how to avoid this impasse and show us not only how religious and personal freedoms can peacefully co-exist, but also why they must.
If you click on the link, you’ll find out why he is saying this NOW – and not last year: he’s made a movie (documentary!) he wants you to watch and appreciate. “Following two familes who stand firm for their controversial and misunderstood faith, Knocking reveals how Jehovah’s Witnesses have helped to shape history beyond the doorstep.” I dare you to read after “more”…
Does he seriously think that this will wipe out all the rancor and animosity that has built over the years? Can this ever bridge the chasm between JW’s and mainstream religion, let alone gain lost ground with atheists?
He goes on to document the “good” that JWs have accomplished by going to court so much, frequently all the way to the Supreme Court!
In college, it surprised me to see Jehovah’s Witnesses in the footnotes of my history books. I knew they were unpopular, but I hadn’t realized how often they had been denied their rights to speak, worship, assemble and live as they chose. They had been regulars at the U.S. Supreme Court since the 1930s, arguing that the First Amendment was an empty promise to citizens outside the mainstream. Jehovah’s Witnesses have argued 62 cases before the high court. Only the U.S. government has argued more. Jehovah’s Witnesses won 50 of the cases, breathing life into the Bill of Rights and setting precedents for the civil rights movement.
Would I be wrong to equate JWs with the National Rifle Association? They, too, have gained legal ground for us all, while also arguing in defense of a flawed product on a defective premise.
Reading my textbooks, I realized that’s why my mom and I had the right to knock on your door. You may have been annoyed, but the annoyance led to court cases that expanded freedom for all. And not just in the USA. Since the fall of communism in the early 1990s, Jehovah’s Witnesses have done the same in emerging democracies, winning 34 of their 45 cases before the European Court of Human Rights.
Bravo! Now JWs have begun to export their peculiar brand of “annoying behavior”! Congratulations, morons!
The second time I broke my mom’s heart was when I told her I am gay. Jehovah’s Witnesses are social conservatives. Members can’t be actively gay and can’t get an abortion; women can’t serve as religious leaders. These positions are not unique to this religion, of course. Just ask any gay kid how easy it was to come out to his Evangelical Christian, Roman Catholic or Mormon family. Yet Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t try to force their beliefs on others through politics. They would never protest an abortion clinic, bankroll a campaign against gay marriage or vote to restrict what they view as “sins.” They believe that Jesus commanded Christians to stay out of politics and all war, including culture wars.
Jehovah’s Witnesses do use the courts, however, to protect their Christian way of life. They choose to live within certain self-imposed boundaries, which include shunning members who reject the agreed-upon standards. But they also recognize and accept the fact that outside groups will benefit from their legal victories. Imagine if all religions had enough confidence in their faith that someone else’s definition of marriage, life or morality posed no threat to their own. [ed: emphasis added]
Yeah, what I’m imagining is my porch (and all the way to my property line) off-limits to proselytizing morons. Thanks to JWs, it ain’t gonna happen…
USA-Today included this succinct (but incomplete!) thumbnail of JWs”
Jehovah’s Witnesses 101
Founded:In 1879 by Charles T. Russell in Pittsburgh.
Membership:One million in the USA; about 7 million worldwide.
Publications:TheWatchtower magazine, printed in 161 languages. Awake! magazine, printed in 81 languages.
Beliefs:God’s name is Jehovah. His son Jesus preached the Gospel on earth and died for mankind’s salvation. Like Jesus, Christians should be “witnesses” of Jehovah’s purpose. The world is currently ruled by Satan, which explains suffering and evil. But in the battle of Armageddon, God will destroy the responsible political, religious and economic systems that operate under Satan’s influence. The earth will be restored to paradise. The crucifix should not be worshipped because Jesus died on a pole, not a cross.
Behaviors: Premarital sex, homosexuality, abortion and gambling are all sins. Holidays with non-biblical origins are not celebrated. Jesus’ death is marked with a special observance, but Christmas and birthdays are not because the Bible does not command the celebration of Jesus’ birth. Transfusions of whole blood are refused.
You will notice that Engardio does not mention this: The Theocratic War Doctrine; why Jehovah’s Witnesses lie in court. And elsewhere! The basics are simple: JWs are not required to tell the truth to “unbelievers”; anyone who is not a JW is “of Satan”. Additionally, they are required to tell the truth to equals and superiors in JW – but not to inferiors (those below them in rank). (Getting “the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth” out of them in a court of law is an epic struggle!)
Awakening Of A Jehovah’s Witness: Escape From The Watch Tower Society, from PsychologyToday, details the painful therapeutic journey of Diane Wilson as she struggled to break the JW-chains.
So, in this game, I call: “bullshit!”
11 May 2007, on 10:42 pm
Yes, Joel, I did need to sic my dog on you. She was merely sharing her religion with you. And doing it on her own property, by the way. Now that you know I’m not interested in your religion, and it seems clear that you are not interested in my dog’s religion, there is no need for you to stop by again. Ever. Please pass the message along to all of your fellow JWers.
11 May 2007, on 11:20 pm
Karen, I have no firm knowledge that “passing it along” works with JWs. However, my husband, an ex-Moron, informs me that mormon missionaries are required to make note of people who demand to NOT be visited again and to give that info to their “handlers” for adding to the permanent list.
If enough of us got on the “the list”, do you suppose that they’d find more fertile ground to plow? Nah, I didn’t think so, either. Knowing mormons, they’d have a “revelation”, tear up the lists and start all over again…
11 May 2007, on 11:22 pm
im not a JW, but I still wonder, what exactly is your position on those rights won by JW’s? For example http://www.jw-media.org/rights/european_court.htm
Do you disagree with the entitlement of all/most of those rights?
Even if the product is flawed and the premise defective, are not many of the rights worth it?
11 May 2007, on 11:29 pm
Hmmm…I live in an apartment building; so I don’t really have a problem with JWs on a front porch. We do, however, have a “No Proselytizing” sign on one of the entrance windows.
Somehow, as is my usual, I started imagining a front porch, with a special JW trap door…I dunno…leading, perhaps, into the Septic tank? I’d probably also rig up a speaker set to announce something like:
“You have exactly ten seconds to remove you asses from my porch; otherwise you’ll experience a preview of that awful place you’re always preaching about..you know…the abyss?…you annoying piece(s) of brainwashed shit!”…
“Oh…and…”Don’t make waves!”
Yeah…I know…I probably should tone it down…just a WEE bit…How ’bout:…
you stinking little turd(s)?
While I’m being so ‘creative’, one more…how ’bout an electronically controlled catapult arrangement…with just enough slingshot power to achieve liftoff onto the neighbor across the street’s porch?
[Or wherever!...erm...pig sty?]
Oh, wait!…I forgot…as Naomi’s post definitively points out…the JWs DO love their court cases.
NEVERMIND!!!
11 May 2007, on 11:29 pm
Step on my property with your religion at your own risk. That’s all you need to know god boy.
11 May 2007, on 11:37 pm
Jehovah’s Witless.
How’s the old saying go? “Possession is 9/10ths of the law.”
Sic ‘em, Fido!
I lived in a house in Chico, decades ago. 2 of these witlesses came a-knockin’.
I let them in. Played w/’em a bit (no, not like that, shush!). If memory serves, I got ‘em w/a few choice quotes (I think it was ‘& those that preach in my name, I know them not’, along those lines).
Lotsa fum-fahs.
Never saw them again.
12 May 2007, on 12:19 am
Personally I want to come to the door naked and tell them my black and Asian man-mates and I were engaging in a three way homosexual orgy of premarital sinful savage man sex while performing an abortion.
I’d love to come to the door covered in blood and ask if anyone wants to join in the blood sacrifice.
12 May 2007, on 1:01 am
I’m a athiest and I dislike it when they come to my door to convert me. However I find it to be a minor annoyance and simply tell them i’m not intrested. I think people take this subject way to seriously. Like it or not its freedom of speech and they aren’t tresspassing if they stay on your sidewalks leading to doors so long as they leave when you tell them to.
The most offensive thing that has happened to me was when I lived in Connecticut mormons came to my door and tryed to do thier pitch. After they left I told my wife I find it odd that whenever they come its always two white guys… not even once a african american, latino, ect. Well they must have been listening with thier ear to a widow or a door because the very next day they came back with a african american who dressed differnetly than them and did not speak a single word. Makes me wonder if they paid the guy just to tag along…. either way invasion of privacy and coming back the day after i told them i’m not intrested was not cool. Still I remained polite with them and rejected them a second time and they never came back.
12 May 2007, on 2:41 am
It’s freedom of speech to knock on my door and preach to me just like it’s freedom of speech to get phone calls from marketers, right? Maybe they should have a national registry for no solicitation?
Actually, I always look out my front window to see who is at my door. If I don’t know who they are I don’t open the door.
12 May 2007, on 5:01 am
Why couldn’t he (Jesus) also command JWs to stay out of my life? I really dislike it when they interrupt my life and want to convert me. I’ve never slammed a door in their face, I’ve always been kind, because that’s the basic me, I don’t know how to be nasty. So why can’t JWs be kind like me and let me be!
12 May 2007, on 6:34 am
‘Would I be wrong to equate JWs with the National Rifle Association? They, too, have gained legal ground for us all, while also arguing in defense of a flawed product on a defective premise.’
Yes. Surely it also matters WHAT legal ground was gained for US citizens, even if you disagree with the motivations.
For example, secure First Amendment rights are surely valued by most secular Americans, as the amendment cuts both ways. If you look at some of the supreme court successes of the JW’s you’ll see that they secured the right to NOT have to participate in state sanctioned religious activities in school, the right NOT to have to pledge allegiance (which flows thru into not having to say ‘under god’ if you choose not to). Freedom FROM as well as freedom FOR.
Annoying they may be, but occasionally useful.
Deb
12 May 2007, on 8:39 am
I am in all favor of an overall law/ordinance against person-to-person solicitation of any kind at private homes and businesses. It’s bad enough we are bombarded via the postal service. I must shred an entire forest each year!
And, I always peek out the window to see who it is when someone knocks, and don’t open it if I don’t know who they are. Fortunately, we dont get much of this anymore since the prohibiting of door-to-door solicitation in our town.
12 May 2007, on 10:52 am
I have to side with Stardust all the way on this. I had the ‘opportunity’ to meet a lot of JW’s back in college when a woman I was dating became one. They’re more annoying than the crabs. I’d also have to say that, as a group, they are the most stridently ignorant people I have ever met.
12 May 2007, on 12:13 pm
We live out in the middle of nowhere on a farm and we STILL get JW’s! We even have prominent signs at the end of the entry lane that state: “Absolutely no trespassers or solicitors,” and, “Hunting strictly prohibited,” and another that says, “Warning: Registered Guard Dog.”
Still, they will drive down the lane. Hob, our dog, is a Great Pyrenees (a livestock guard dog). He is 200+ pounds of shaggy, drooly love, except when he sees strangers coming onto his turf, in which case he’s 200+ pounds of shaggy, drooly fury.
It is rare that they will get out of the car when Hob’s barking at them. He’s an obedient fellow and does stop barking when told to do so, but we don’t let them get out of the car. (Because we kind of want to check on who they actually ARE first — sometimes people do show up because they’re lost and need directions).
If they’re JW’s though, we usually just say “Hob. Do your job!” and he’ll bark and herd the fuckers back down the lane until they’re off the property.
Once, the RCMP did come out because one car load of the bastards filed a complaint. He noted the signs at the end of the lane and just asked us a couple of questions. He noted that the dog was certainly well-behaved and handled, and that our RGD licence and Hob’s vaccinations were current. He apologised for bothering us, but… you know, he had to do the follow-up and yada yada… no problem.
12 May 2007, on 1:02 pm
“…while also arguing in defense of a flawed product on a defective premise.”
I was with you 100% on your post until you made the above statement. Your argument would have been much stronger without it. Most, if not all, of the regular GiFS readers would agree with your take on JWs, but I’m pretty sure not all of them would agree with your fairly strong anti-gun position.
12 May 2007, on 3:28 pm
Mark, we’ll just agree to disagree. That’s what we atheists do – we have many and diverse opinions. But we all agree that believing in a gawd is pointless.
And I couched it as a question, not as a statement of fact. I did search my mind for any non-religious group, with a very narrow focus, that was doing the same as JWs. Perhaps I should have mentioned the Sierra Club or Greenpeace or AmnestyInternational instead?
12 May 2007, on 3:36 pm
I always enjoyed the story about the guy who told the porch missionaries that he would join them in a brief prayer if they would join him in blaspheming.
12 May 2007, on 3:52 pm
Old Viking
That’s a good ‘un! Will have to keep it in mind!
Of course, the blaspheming will have to come first, in case they renege.
12 May 2007, on 4:23 pm
Diversity of opinion-Good! Just more proof that atheism is not a cohesive structure or “religion”-good to see!
I am by far the most anti-religious person I know. I deplore just about everything that religion does for the sheeple of the world, from the false hope to the emotional bondage to the fear of reality that it produces. It’s like watching otherwise sane, healthy people running up to a herd of zombies while shouting “Me first! Me first! Please eat my brains first!”
That said, I disagree entirely with the spirit of the post. Funny part is I agree with every complaint made against the JW’s. Selling religion on the doorstep is just plain silly to me, and I can certainly see how people of other religions would find it rude and offensive. I can even see how non-believers would be annoyed by the intrusion, but I don’t understand the outrage. Why does free sketch comedy piss off someone with no real stake in the matter?
I understand arguments of privacy and the like, but there are practical limits to privacy if you live around other people. The whole idea of laws against door to door interaction is just a plain shitheaded idea. Voter drives. Pizza coupons. Girl Scouts. School fund raisers. Neighbors asking favors. Under the table lawn service. Block parties. Pollsters. THE TAMALE LADY!!!
If you really hate these intrusions, put up a sign. Buy a dog. Move to the country and sit on your front porch with a banjo and a shotgun.
Just don’t make me live in world where I have to be afraid of knocking on my neighbor’s door, for whatever reason.
Also-much of this type of hype comes from business owners who think their shit doesn’t stink. McDonald’s can make my neighborhood smell like a shit-filled toilet bowl, but I can’t talk to their customers about my business. Their litter clogs our gutters, but I will be arrrested for putting flyers on cars in the parking lot. Trespassing laws are already covering every square f’ing inch of this country- do we really need the nanny state to take care of the JW’s, Mormons, and the Fuller Brush Man? The ONLY part of JW culture that’s worth a shit-they fight for their speech rights while staying out of elected office-think we can get the RaptureCrapture crowd to follow suit?
Last point-Please don’t rob me of the free opportunity to fuck with their pointy little heads without actually having to seek them out. I am an Evangelical Atheist, but far too busy/lazy to go knocking myself!
12 May 2007, on 5:18 pm
I had two of them once try the door knob when my grandmother didn’t open it for them. Good thing she kept it locked all the time. SCARY.
12 May 2007, on 8:15 pm
Neil, mostly people MY age know about the FullerBrush-man!
What you say is true. I’d like the ONLY knock on my door to be a neighbor, the UPS/FedEx or a surprise visit from a relative.
If you’ve been following this blog’s debate about church bells, mosque’s calls to prayer and loud services, you’ll already know how we feel about it: we’re pissed!
And I guess that should apply to smells, as well. I’ve thought, at times, that the smell of baking bread was better that of a plastics being made. But would I want my home and my clothes to smell like that all the time? And after working in a restaurant, I could never get the odor of rancid grease out of the things I wore… Perhaps technology could find a way to keep odors within those places.
I haven’t heard of a single case of anyone being arrested for “flyering” cars in parking lots; does anyone know of any? My method of dealing with that odiousness is to call and tell them, “If I had ever thought of buying your product/service, that ended when you littered my car!” That goes for churches, too. I wish everyone would call, as well, instead of just tossing in on the ground…
Audrey, #14, does live in the country, has posted signs, does have a dog (she may even have a banjo and a shotgun) and she still has them visiting her. Does that not indicate a single-minded intent to be heard? And isn’t that going too far?
Toni, #20, tells of them trying to open her grandmother’s door! That’s more than single-mindedness – that’s genuine trespass.
The concept of “boundaries” in psychology is unknown to these people. And even if you explained it to them, it wouldn’t make a dent in their drive to “share their faith”! YouTube has videos of the relentlessness of proselytizers in malls. Or my fave: the Australian atheist who turned the tables on the Mormons in Utah. At 7AM on a Saturday!
I’ve never met an Evangelical atheist before…
12 May 2007, on 8:51 pm
I have always been vexed by the idea that being rude to someone somehow infringes on their religious freedom or whatever. Yeah, OK, they can come knock on my door. And I can tell them to get the fuck off my property and tell them they’re not fucking wanted. That’s my right.
It is not infringing on their freedoms to be honest about what I think of their stupid fucking religious. It is not infringing on their freedoms if tell them to get the fuck out of my home.
It is insulting to suggest such a thing, and an example of how religious people continue to think that it’s OK that their delusional belief in the sky pixie gives them additional privileges. It does not.
12 May 2007, on 10:26 pm
I guess out here on the beach it’s just a little more relaxed! Thank you for responding to my points, Naomi. For all the trouble it causes, which is plenty, I tend to be an extremist when it comes to free speech. Anyone ignoring gates and signs, though, deserves whatever they get including guard dogs, police involvement, or armed response. Of course by armed response I mean brandishing and warning shot first, not outright execution. Call me a softie.
I exaggerated the point about penalties for flyers, but not much; I have personally been threatened with a $15,000 fine for flyering. I’d prefer a month in jail!
I see that many here seem to lump these issues in with respect or personal autonomy, but that really doesn’t hold water with me. I have never been moved to rage or even annoyance by a flyer, door knocker, the bible freaks at the farmer’s market, etc. But I am known for having a skin so thick it borders on armor plating.
I do take private property matters very seriously, but in large neighborhoods of small lots, it just becomes impossible and pointless to be absolutist about it. Sooner or later someone will end up on your lawn, and of all the people to do it, at least the loons provide free entertainment, not just litter, frat-boy vomit, or my pet peeve, dogshit. I lived in one neighborhood that was almost totally made up of college students and retirees. For six blocks around, all you could smell was dogshit. On your lawn, everyday, whether you owned one or not! Rather that get the cops or government involved, I just started throwing it at the owner as they walked away, if I caught them, while screaming a threat to shit on their lawn myself. Three recipients so far.
Okay, running a bit long here, but I do have a question. I realize that I have extremely lax standards of respect compared to most, but what is it that really gets to you about the door to door thing? Privacy issues? Dislike of the content of the message? I’ve only dealt with a few door to doors, and to be honest, the ones I’ve seen will definitely be inheriting some earth.
12 May 2007, on 10:56 pm
Both privacy issues and content, Neil.
If I wanted churchiness, I’d go to church. If I wanted to go to church, I’d probably gravitate back to the old stand-by model, United Methodist.
But I neither want nor need church. In fact, I only realized in 2002 that I had never really wanted “church” – just fellowship with other humans. And in order to collect that benefit, I had to say I believed some really weird things. Eventually, I drifted away without any pain. At least twice!
My home is my refuge. People selling “things” annoy me. If I want or need something, I go online or go shopping. Call me heartless but I believe there are many charities out there that exploit the disabled for profit and without sharing with the disabled they exploit. Just like panhandlers, who could work but won’t, they know they can make more money begging and relying upon the guilt of soft-hearted people. While the panhandlers don’t come to my home, when I was a truck driver, they came to my truck! Or they accosted me in the parking lot.
Neil, don’t worry about long posts (ChuckA doesn’t – right, Chuck?). Thoughtful comments are usually not short. And we here at GifS are thoughtful and wordy.
(Inheriting some earth? As in “meek”?)
12 May 2007, on 10:57 pm
Of all religious proselitizers, I find JWs the least annoying. The ones I am getting here (in Japan, where I live at the moment) ask me for permission before dropping a leaflet in my mailbox (and do not do it when I say no).
I find nothing wrong with door-to-door proselityzing, as long as they respect it if I put up a sign asking them not to do it. And I agree with Neil that trying to restrict it by law would be a bad idea.
Besides, that would let me without the enjoyment of my usual “I will read your Bible/Watchtower/Holy Book/Magazine/Leaflet while you give me a blow job. Deal?” line.
13 May 2007, on 12:34 am
[...] (First posted here.) [...]
13 May 2007, on 2:17 am
“Neil, don’t worry about long posts (ChuckA doesn’t – right, Chuck?).”
Huh? (snort!)…What was that. Naomi? Long comments?…
why…COITENLY!
Actually, I was sorta daydreaming (at 1:00 AM CDT)…and rather enjoying Neil’s comment:
“For six blocks around, all you could smell was dogshit…I just started throwing it at the owner as they walked away, if I caught them, while screaming a threat to shit on their lawn myself. Three recipients so far.”
Wow, Neil…
Only three recipients, huh?…Hmmm…
ala Midnight the Cat’s response?…”NICE!”?…right Naomi?…
Neil, I’m guessing, is too young for a corny old “Buster Brown Gang” reference!
Seriously, Neil…I agree with Naomi’s “thoughtful…and wordy…comment” point.
I guess MY motto regarding expressing a comment would be something akin to:
“As long as it takes to get your point(s) accross…just don’t hog the whole comment thread!”
I must say, it’s nice to see some ‘new’ people…or is it just, old lurkers?…joining in…something like:
“Out of the shadows and into the light?”
Welcome to all you “like-minded, atheist heathens”? Onward and…
Onward? What’s that, Naomi…
WAY Too long a comment?…erm…I guess my “magic twanger” got stuck!
13 May 2007, on 6:01 pm
Psst! ChuckA, Neil knows about the FullerBrush salesmen! Unless he’s addicted to old Red Skelton movies, he’s likely closer to our ages than you think…
)
Erm…Neil, we weren’t really talking behind your back. That would be impossible online…
Seriously, I’m glad you dropped by. Please make GifS a habit.
14 May 2007, on 4:38 pm
You caught me Chuck-I have been lurking here for about two years, give or take, and have only left a couple of random comments. The main reason being that I read my favorite blogs and websites either before work or at slow times at work, and it takes me a while to compose a decent comment. A thread often goes pretty cold before I can think of how to phrase what I’m thinking! And then there’s my patented six-finger hunt and peck typing-more like a zen meditation than actual typing!
Anyway thanks for the welcome-It’s getting to my slow season at work so I’ll probably be piping up more often. This particular post really got me thinking, mostly because I know many people who go pretty ballistic over door to doors and telemarketers, and car flyers and the like, where I just regard it all as confetti at the carnival of life. And to be honest, I really do enjoy stringing along a telemarketer and screwing with them, and I REALLY do enjoy screwing with the religious door to doors! Sometimes live entertainment is the only thing that will cut it, and it’s cheaper than a show! I once was awakened by the usual mormon knucklehead duo at about 10:00am. I was polite and so were they, and I was obviously fresh from bed, but something seemed off. I was willing to talk to them, but they looked really uncomfortable and quickly left my doorstep. On my way to the bathroom, I noticed that the drawstring of my flannels had pinned Mr. Happy into a rather prominent postion, so that even after the “morning wood” had subsided, I was left a-danglin’. Whoops!
If anybody else here has opinions or perspectives on this issue, please bring it up- this is an area of free speech as well as religious practice that has always intrigued me, if you didn’t notice.
For anyone who may be interested, I am a 34 year old white male from the beautiful central coast of California. Non-professional, ex-wanderer, part-time musician, full time smart-ass. I quit church at 14 years old because it was seriously cutting in to my masturbation time, and rejected Christ(and the rest of the Immortals) in my late teens/early twenties because he was keeping me from getting laid. Nothing promotes atheism like having Jesus steal your girlfriend!
I really enjoy Gifs. A fun atmosphere, often highly charged, and you don’t seem to mind differing opinions or irreverence. I appreciate that because for me, irreverence is a way of life.
15 May 2007, on 1:08 am
Thanks, Neil, for your offering of personal info.
To knock on a whole different door from the post’s subject…like…”Here I go again!”
Some of your (#29) word choices triggered and tweeked an easily accessed idiosyncrasy of my warped mind…I guess, it might be related to my being a musician, and a long ago frustrated aspiring song writer.
More pricisely, I started shifting into “titling humor” by some of your humorous asides.
Like, f’rinstance (as Song Titles?):
“The Drawstring of My Flannels….”…reminiscent of “The lovliness of Paris…” [in the verse to "I Left My Heart in San Francisco"]
Of course: “Mr. Happy” ala “Mr. Wonderful” (1950s)etc.
Or…how ’bout: “Morning Wood”…ala the Beatles’: “Norwegian Wood”?
Now, erm… “Left A-Danglin’ ” is something you might consider writing…oh…maybe a Country tune about?
“Full Time Smart-Ass” similarly, has the makings of a Country/Rock hit title…?
See, Neil…one theory of mine…actually it’s not really a theory…considering the evidence of all the songs written using cliche phrases. It’s really getting hard (See?…there’s another title!…SHEESH!) to think of a common phrase which HASN’T been turned into a song…well known, or otherwise, regarding song writing.
I know this is only tangential to your comment…just couldn’t help blabbing on the subject.
One more?…and this only makes sense, perhaps, to us REALLY older ‘guys’…or those who’ve followed the history of early TV kid shows? You wouldn’t be one of those, now, would you?
I’m referring to the 1950’s kid show: “Howdy Doody Time”; with its theme starting out as:
“It’s Howdy Doody Time…It’s Howdy Doody Time…Bob Smith and Howdy Do…say Howdy Do to you…” It repeats, etc.
In a more hip (cool?) time period…yeah; like in “Never-Never Land”?…erm…”It could happen!”?…like, from your 14 years old: “my masturbation time” [and following my perverse 'logic']…how ’bout something like:
“It’s Masturbation Time…it’s Masturbation Time…My Happy wood’ll do…what Howdy Do can do”…etc.
Or perhaps…I dunno…maybe:
“It’s Masturbation Time…it’s Masturbation Time…the Prez and Cheney too…will wank a War for you!…?
Yes…”Wank you very much, ladies and”…on and on! All this delusional madness of mine does kinda make want to get back to writing music again…and…wanking? Oops!
OK, I’ll stop…I sense I’m really pushing the GifS ‘envelope’…But, you know, Neil; you’re not alone…
Irreverence is MY way of life; and, I suspect, many other GifSters’ way of life, too!
Isn’t that right, Naomi?
15 May 2007, on 11:18 am
I dare say none of you would be blogging if JW’s hadn’t approach the supreme court.
15 May 2007, on 11:39 am
The last time a couple JWs knocked on my door at 7am one Saturday morning and started into their shpiel about “discussing religion” (which of course means “discussing their religion), I agreed and before they could say much I invited them to “our group’s live goat sacrifice” which was planned for that evening “by the light of the full moon”. Haven’t been bothered since.
15 May 2007, on 11:51 am
Did gawd lose an election or something? Hasn’t there always been suffering and “evil”? Does this mean gawd has never controlled the world?
What an ameoboid view of the universe! Fucking morons.
15 May 2007, on 11:55 am
And if the warning shot accidentally enters the brain of the interloper, oops!
15 May 2007, on 11:57 am
Sheesh has obesity levels got to the point where you all cant get off your fat arses and say: “I’m not interested”?
15 May 2007, on 12:19 pm
Hello,
Just stumbled on this site, and found this conversation quite interesting. I was raised as a JW and found going door-to-door absolutely mortifying. Even though I’m a staunch atheist, I just can’t bring myself to be be rude to them, so I just avoid anwering the door.
Thought I’d share a funny story though about how persistent they can be. A couple of JW women were at a particular door. They knocked but got no answer. One of the women said a person through a window and said something about knowing someone was in there and couldn’t they just listen to what the women had to say. Well, a couple a seconds went by before they heard a toilet flush…..
15 May 2007, on 1:10 pm
I’m a former JW – got out as early as I could. Didn’t agree with their beliefs, and HATED going out door-to-door.
Yet YOU guys are bigots. I can’t believe a group such as this has so much hatred for someone that knocks on your fucking door! Takes no more than TWO minutes of your “precious” time, to, in their opinion, try to save you.
You can easily say no thank you, and shut the door. You don’t need to go on a fucking rant about how “annoying” they are, and talk as though they’re evil people, when in fact they most certainly are not.
They may not be evil, but they are crazy and I won’t open my door to crazy people.
So on behalf of JWs everywhere, that can’t say this for themselves: fuck YOU and fuck your bigotry.
Wow…Janie…you have serious left-over anger from your JW brainwashed days, and do you always use comment threads on random blogs to rid yourself of your frustrations?! Holy shit! You better go seek some help for your problems.
People should not be disturbing other people in their PRIVATE HOMES to tell them about some crazy ass sky daddy beliefs. Period.
15 May 2007, on 1:16 pm
Erm…Pardon me, GifSters…just a correction of my previous silliness [in #30]…
?
RE: “Howdy Doody’s theme”?…for any of you old ‘hard’core, and perhaps, formerly addicted fans?:
Should be: “…Bob Smith and Howdy, TOO…say howdy doo to you!”
I feel better now…
NOT MUCH…but better.
Carry on!
15 May 2007, on 1:49 pm
I was one of Jehovah’s witnesses for about 16 years. After I got sick of them telling me how to live my life I walked. My oldest daughter stayed and to this day still considers herself a witness. She hasn’t spoken to me since I left, She had 2 children that I have never been allowed to see, when her sister was 3 she wanted to talk to her(in the phone) and she refused to talk to the child and broke her heart. She told her children that I AM Satan.
This religion is over the edge, they ruin families, they say they are not “clicky” but your children aren’t allowed to play with their children if they break any of the rules and they say that your kids can’t play with “worldly kids” so poor kids have NOTHING unless they blindly follow.
My daughter got married 3 days after meeting a guy and it was blessed by the congregation because he was also a “witness” I do not believe she has ever been happy (from what I hear from those who know her).
Her son was “home schooled” but didn’t follow any program and spent most of his time playing games on the computer so now he is obviously nothing more than an idiot. She was too busy to teach him.
They use fear to control so I guess that makes them terrorists. They use the bible like all the others do, to support their claims and condemn others. They claim their translation is the only correct one.
Their kids are no better than others but they work hard to keep issues within the congregations rather than to hang their wash out there where all can see it.
If you have a kid and you are a leader that kid gets away with murder, others are condemned for looking at someone cross-eyed.
They do gossip about one another and stab one another in the back just as much as the rest of the world, once again this is hidden.
They throw you out if you don’t follow their teachings to the T and then nobody will talk to you so someone who has been a member for years and has all their friendships within the organization they are left alone. I believe this is to keep the one who left from letting the others see the lies you have uncovered.
They spend so much time in meetings, studying for these meetings and knocking on YOUR door that they are living in their own little bubble. When someone leaves it is a culture shock!
They are not what they appear to be.
15 May 2007, on 2:40 pm
Sheesh has obesity levels got to the point where you all cant get off your fat arses and say: “I’m not interested”?
Gavin, Maybe you don’t mind being bothered while trying to take a nap to rid yourself of a migraine, for example, but most people hate it. It is MY private home and property and they should not be trespassing to disturb my peace to tell me how much I need their fucked up sky daddy fantasies. Fortunately, I live in a village where door-to-door solicitation for selling stuff for sports and school programs any kind must require a permit, and regular companies like AVON and religous proseltyzing are not allowed at all.
15 May 2007, on 2:48 pm
I dare say none of you would be blogging if JW’s hadn’t approach the supreme court.
Farley, That doesn’t give them the right to disturb me in the “sanctity” of my private residence, and does not obligate me to accept that their imaginary friend is real.
15 May 2007, on 3:02 pm
Me, I’m new around this blog, so pay no attention to anything I might write.
The thread here seems a little more amusing than the sparking article. Are JWs the Primary Threat to the Polity that some would suggest, or are they merely an annoyance almost laughable in their hapless attempts to bolster their cult? The Neil v. Naomi debate was worth the price of admission in itself, but the viewing thereof provokes me to inquire of Naomi: since the act of attempting personal contact with you at your home without explicit invitation to do so displeases you so greatly, how can you manage to endure telemarketers? If the phonesales brigade isn’t getting an equivalent rise out of you that the JWs incur, could it be because the latter don’t charge for their product, due to its immateriality?
Myself, I would probably have to go with the “free front yard entertainment” estimation of the JWs (the Mormon door-to-door crew I find far slicker and smoother, and thus more discomforting). Now the day the JWs offer me something for $99.95 that’s worth less than a tenth of the quoted price, then they shall have pissed me off as badly as they did Naomi.
15 May 2007, on 3:14 pm
since the act of attempting personal contact with you at your home without explicit invitation to do so displeases you so greatly, how can you manage to endure telemarketers?
jeffreydj – I know this was addressed to Naomi, but as for myself, I have added my home number and cell numbers to the National no-call registry and that took care of that fucking problem. Unfortunately, unless a town or village has an ordinance against door-to-door bullshit like my village has, there is no no-call registry for annoying and bothersome religious freaks. If my village and other villages and communities have adopted similar ordinances against door-to-door proseltyzing, then that is evidence that people do NOT want to be bothered in their homes for ANYTHING even though you might think that it is “entertaining”. Unless you have no life or other form of amusing yourself, it IS annoying…and inconsiderate. Old people take naps, sick people can’t get up, some people work midnights, dogs and pets of people who work get upset when strangers knock, people might be sad or depressed and not want to be bothered, some people are having midday sex, some people are on the shitter, some people are watching a movie they have waited to watch all week. Shall I go on with my reasons?
15 May 2007, on 3:34 pm
EJG, sounds exactly like Scientology.
15 May 2007, on 4:01 pm
Jeffreydj: Stardust has replied with every point I could have made. (Thanks, Star!
)
Yes, I expediently dealt with the telemarketers by getting on the NoCallList the first day it was available. I’m sure you just forgot about that small convenience available to us curmudgeons, which is what you seem to be implying we are.
As for playing games with the telemarketing whores, before the NCL, it’s not really fun, unless you have a bully for an “inner child”. I once tried the stalling tactic for almost an hour, having her repeat everything and asking numerous questions – only to tell her “no, thank you”. There was no sense of satisfaction and I wasted almost an hour of my life for nothing!
On a collateral topic (disturbing sleep; thanks to Stardust’s migraines for prompting it):
Alert! (If there was a word, like misogyny – like “mis-homony”, I’d use it!) Where noise is concerned, men seem to love it! And if you’re a truck driver, and have a lovely noisemaker like a “jakebrake”/engine-brake/engine-retarder, it’s ON all the time – so that if you let off on the accelerator, you’re “making noise”. It’s a safety device and has saved countless lives, especially when going down steep grades.
But it is NOT a toy and should not be used in urban traffic. Yet, it is, shamelessly. What is it about men and noise?!?!
To bring this back to JWs and knocking on doors: As a driver (with both a brain and a heart), I knew instinctively that abusing the use of a “jake” was an offense against decency and courtesy.
All I had to do was imagine several scenarios, like Stardust’s migraine; a sleepless mother with a colicky baby who has finally fallen asleep, meaning she might get some sleep, too; my father, during his chemotherapy, dozing off for some much-needed rest; and so on.
There are many reasons why quiet is needed and/or desired in a home. Who gave the JWs and Mormons the idea that their little visits would always be welcome? Do they harvest enough “sheeple” to make it worthwhile – be damned to the rest of us? Or do they need to redouble their efforts, to make up for the suckers that got away?
15 May 2007, on 4:03 pm
Stop me if you’ve heard this one before…
Q: What do you get when you cross a Jehovah’s Witness with a biker?
A: Someone who knocks on your door and tells YOU to f*** off.
15 May 2007, on 4:58 pm
Janie, find someplace else for your mental therapy. You are banned. bye bye
Mods.
15 May 2007, on 6:00 pm
Well, if nothing else, I sure am glad to help stir up a little heat. Hope no one minds!
For the record, I do not regard Naomi or Stardust as curmudgeons because of their dislike of solicitors. We just have somewhat different levels of acceptable intrusion in our lives. Period. I must admit, most people, religious or not, probably fall closer to their end of the spectrum than mine!
I remember how my mom would react to the J.W.’s when I was a kid. She actually invited them in once or twice, I don’t think so much out of genuine curiosity, possibly to scare myself and my sister.(”See, we could be like them-no Christmas or birthdays!) But most times she very apologetically begged off-I could tell how much she hated being discourteous to people, and how put-out she felt at having to say no so often. It was almost like the spiritual equivalent of date rape.
Also, I could be wrong, but I seemed to feel a little hostility towards my solutions to the problem-and that’s just fine. I fully realize that most folks view their time as more valuable than I view mine. I just think that they are usually mistaken, and are likely to miss a lot of the “incidental fun” that life has to offer, as well as some great opportunities to blow off steam. Also for the record, I do have a life. A thouroughly enjoyable one. And I am just about as far from a bully as one can be. Generally a cheerful, non-antagonistic fellow. No fist fights since the eighth grade, and the last person I bullied was attempting to give a stray cat a colonoscopy.
Of course everybody has a Hyde to their Jekyll. There are few things I enjoy more than busting the chops of sanctimonious fools and social parasites. The last tele-scammer I abused was calling from an Indian sweatshop and spent 25 minutes trying to get my bank account number to deposit $5000.00 from the “American Tax Department.” RIIIIIGHT! I put on some System of a Down, made a nice ham sandwich, strung him along and busted his balls until I got to another guy, then another. Got as much info as I could, and when it got boring I called it off and told them to go get fucked. I then called the phone co., the police, the local F.B.I. branch, and my bank to share everything I knew. Wasted a whole hour of my life- a little more, really. And in my opinion, worth every second. When you see a shitty employee abusing a customer, I’m the guy who lets them have it. When a shitty customer is holding up the line with venemous complaints, I’m the one who asks them very politely to shut the fuck up. I also attend protests, write letters to the editor, even show up at the occaisional city council meeting. On nice weekends, I sometimes head down to the pier and hand out Normal Bob Smith Evangelical Atheist Tracts-now that is some fun, especially since most of the tourists are redneck baptists(lots of fundies in Bakersfield)or serious Catholics. I usually wear my t-shirt that says “I Like The Pope-The Pope Smokes Dope!
Sorry to babble on so long, really! It just seemed that there were only a couple of perspectives being aired- the very anti and the apathetic, the same ones that always get play! There are those of us who choose to use the weapons of idiocy against idiocy itself, illuminating the silliness, mocking the authoritarians and sheeple alike, rather than just complaining- or worse, letting them go on their merry way undiscouraged.
So if you’re really sick and tired of the bullshit, send them out to California, the Bullshit Capital of the World. We know how to handle these folks.
15 May 2007, on 6:10 pm
Naomi / Stardust,
Sure put me in my place, yessiree. ‘Twas a staggeringly large, and yet incomplete list of reasons not to get up and answer the door.
I gather that the political leadership of Stardust’s village is wildly popular and secure in their elected positions. That their no-door-to-door solicitations ordnance presumably also applies to efforts to communicate politically to ones neighbors could not possibly be an intended effect of the law.
In the GWBush era I, for one, have heard the call to precinct-walk my neighborhood in a desperate attempt to effect the last three elections. Approaching only registered-Dem households was no guarantee of a civil greeting upon knocking a strange door. But when the choice is disturb someone’s peace or let Bush continue his butcheries, I listened to the higher calling. A calling somewhat less cosmic by inference than that driving the JWs, but I fear not entirely dissimilar.
So, for interrupting somebody’s dinner, to save the country, not their soul, am I as big a dirtbag as the Mormons?
15 May 2007, on 6:19 pm
We know how to handle these folks.
And we Chicagoans do too…No-call registeries and city ordinances disallowing intrusion on private property. It works really well. My village is nice and friendly otherwise…and I have peace in my home.
15 May 2007, on 6:37 pm
I hate door beggars/solicitors…period.
As a matter of fact, the people of our village and many surrounding suburbs are all for these ordinances when it comes to privacy in their own homes.
Politicians are not allowed to door-knock either…Most send out mailings via the post office. And of course the signs. Before election time a forest of signs are posted on almost every major streetcorner.
We all can read, we have news and media coverage, our local paper covers the candidates thoroughly, candidates have public forums to “meet the candidates”, and we have our very own community television channel. So, there is no need to come to my home.
No, because there IS difference…you are not interrupting my dinner to try to convince me to believe in your imaginary friends.
15 May 2007, on 6:54 pm
Jeffrey brings up a good point about politics. If we leave the dissemination of information to the GOP.MSM (especially FoxNoise), we get a skewed picture of what the candidates believe (or what the candidates want us to believe). Is that a double-skew?
How many of you open and read the mail that mounds up during election season? Is that a good way or a bad way to find out what the candidates say about themselves?
Do you take the trouble to go out to candidate forums? Attend the fundraisers? Yeah, I know, most of them don’t have me on the invitation list either… It comes from my relatively shallow pockets, I guess – just like the Iowa farmer that Giuliani’s campaign staff dissed because he wasn’t a millionaire and couldn’t be a poster child for renewing the estate tax…
If they come to the door, do you talk to them, ask them questions, listen and evaluate? Or do you vote along party lines, without any deeper understanding of what their stance is on issues?
Is there a better way to know our candidates? If you’re like me, you think enriching television stations every two years is a crime. This election looks to be the first “Half-Billion-Dollar Campaign” in history. And that’s just the presidential race! WTF: $500.000.000.00! What else could we do with that money? Why should TV networks get to “clean up” every campaign? It’s just another “cash cow” for the media and they depend on it.
Talk about Welfare!
15 May 2007, on 7:26 pm
Sorry I haven’t weighed in sooner on this thread, guys; I’ve actually been giving the different viewpoints some thought.
I remember Mormons and JWs as big, disruptive nuisances as a kid, because we’d be out playing in someone’s front yard and have our fun interrupted by these strangers who would just show up and insist on being either let in to the house or allowed to proselytize to you, no matter your age or whether there were adults with you (my neighborhood in the Dominican Republic was generally very safe, hence our playing outside with no direct supervision). The Mormons at least always asked for an adult, whereas the JWs would launch right into their “don’t you want to be saved?” spiel with us kids, which we’d be kind of stuck with since we were all brought up to be polite to our elders (talk about captive audiences).
One of the bolder children would be put in the position of having to go inside to look for an adult willing to somehow herd the intruders (and yes, it felt extremely intrusive and uncomfortable, just like it did when door-to-door salespeople showed up and did the same thing) away, also difficult for the adult because Dominicans are by and large friendly and welcoming to a fault – and these people took advantage of that, in my observation and experience. Nothing short of outright rudeness, which most Dominicans adult and child were mainly incapable of (then, anyway), could get rid of them!
In general, I’m for ordinances but if I’m living in a neighborhood without them, I’ve become very good at protecting my privacy if I so wish. That be-nice indoctrination doesn’t control me any more, but I’ll admit that my knee-jerk reaction to JWs and Mormons is due to my childhood experiences with them. My approach is now that of the capricious goddess: if you’re in luck, I won’t answer the door or I’ll just mutter “not interested, thank you” and close it; if you’re not in luck and I’m in the mood, let the mind-games begin!
In regards to political campaigning, I’m still for no-solicitation ordinances for the most part; signs are OK (as long as whoever put them up takes them down promptly as soon as elections are over) and so are rallies and gatherings both in prominent public places and private homes (I’ve nothing against a neighbor inviting me to a meet-and-greet via mailbox). However, I realize that my perspective is largely that of a pretty actively involved individual, so for the most part I’m pretty well informed and let my research dictate my political choices; if a large, normally apathetic population is to be moved, I’m not sure how that could be done without a bare-bones grass-roots movement that includes knocking on individual doors…
15 May 2007, on 7:27 pm
If they come to the door, do you talk to them, ask them questions, listen and evaluate? Or do you vote along party lines, without any deeper understanding of what their stance is on issues?
Just because they come to your door, and talk to you directly doesn’t mean they aren’t going to lie to your face. Also, we can’t say for certain that we are going to “understand” a candidate better if stops by to chit-chat on doorsteps for a few minutes. Many people fall for their “salesmanship” of the one selling himself to the public instead of doing thorough research about the candidates.
I am one who does read the “propaganda” mailings from both parties. I try to find out what groups and important figures are supporting them, etc. Those who are really interested in knowing who he/she is voting for will research and consider many sources in making a decision of which candidate to vote for.
Back to the door-knocking subject…if I don’t know the person, I don’t open the door, I don’t care who it is.
15 May 2007, on 7:30 pm
What I detest about the door-to-door religious is that they ignore you if you are polite.
I had the same, three-man squad show up three times, and each time I politely and firmly requested that they _not_ return. Each time, the request was phrased more firmly, with a mention of the number of times the request had been ignored, but no less politely.
The fourth time they returned, I opened the door, said, “This is the fourth time, F* off.” and closed the door. They have not since returned.
If they won’t learn from anything but rudeness, then they’ve got no business complaining when people use the only tool that works to communicate with them.
16 May 2007, on 1:31 am
JWs think everyone else is going to hell except for them.
About 20 years ago my roommate, trying not to be rude, let one in my house. This lady spent almost 30 minutes telling my roommate that a print I have hanging on my wall was blasphemy and should be taken down and burned.
It’s a Norman Rockwell print!!!! Who could be more American than Norman Rockwell depicting life in these United States????
The print is titled, “Sunday Morning” . It depicts the mother and three children dressed and leaving for church while the father ducks down in his chair in his robe and pajamas reading the Sunday paper, obviously not joining them at church.
It’s worth the Google search if you’ve never seen this print (I couldn’t get it to copy here).
I told my roommate that that’s why I don’t answer the door to JWs. And by the way, the print still hangs on my living room wall to this date.
16 May 2007, on 9:01 am
I haven’t voted since 1980, as a naive youth joining the army. I voted for Raegan because he was for a strong military, and I figured that meant more money for me. That was about as deep as my thinking went back in those days.
Since then I’ve obviously matured (though my wife might argue that point). I haven’t voted in recent years because I did not like the ideologies of any of the candidates who had a remote chance of winning. And I don’t see merit in voting against a certain position, only to end up with something else you didn’t really want. So I abstain.
I can’t vote for the right because they’re largely religious fucking morons. I can’t vote for the left because they want to force this carbon trading crap down our throats with no hope of having any effect on the environment, and because I do happen to believe in the literal word of the second amendment.
I entertained voting for McCain back in 2000, but then he got beaten by Bush. Now McCain has gone completely ’round the bend, endorsing Falwell and his Liberty University, among other moronic crap. Maybe he was always that way and I never saw it. It seemed like he used to be much more moderate.
I might have even voted for Nader, but his extreme views on things are even scarier.
22 May 2007, on 10:33 am
SUMMARIES OF NEARLY 500 JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES LAWSUITS & COURT CASES
The following website summarizes over 120 lawsuits filed by Jehovah’s Witnesses against their Employers, plus other incidents involving criminal or other problem JW Employees:
EMPLOYMENT ISSUES UNIQUE TO JEHOVAH’S WITNESS EMPLOYEES
http://jwemployees.bravehost.com
The following website summarizes 300 U.S. court cases and lawsuits affecting children of Jehovah’s Witness Parents, including 100+ cases where the JW Parents refused to consent to life-saving blood transfusions for their dying children:
DIVORCE, BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS, AND OTHER LEGAL ISSUES AFFECTING CHILDREN OF JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES
http://jwdivorces.bravehost.com
22 May 2007, on 4:44 pm
Thanks, Jabe! I’ll file that info for future reference. When I post, I like to have the best and most reliable facts and sources to back my opinions up…
23 May 2007, on 4:47 pm
Boy, Jabe, you should have included a disclaimer with those links saying, “Warning: may increase your blood pressure.”
I’m going to go do some yoga, or tai chi, or something–!