Rolling Back The Red Carpet Treatment
1 July 2007 by KA
I say it’s high time we shredded the obligatory red carpet we roll out for the religious in this country.
For instance, if the Vatican wants to shield some pedophiliac priest from the laws of the land said priest has violated, they shouldn’t get a free pass, let alone get promoted.
We see these memes perpetrated on many levels, from the running gags about apologizing to nuns and priests (for swearing or discussing ‘inappropriate’ topics in their presence), to the reverence for these mooks in films, TV shows, and books. Our songs, literature, even our money bear some sort of nod to the ‘on high’.
Bad news:
This is America. Land of the free, home of the brave, and if I might be so bold, irreverence is king here.
Entitled to believe you may be (it is a constitutional right, after all), but by no stretch is any religious person exempt from criticism, large or small. Nor am I required to respect a religious opinion simply just because.
So, religious folks, consider yourself on notice. Your red carpet’s been shredded, all free passes have been revoked, no more special privileges, it’s a level playing field now.
Which makes the fall from the elevated pedestal all the more painful on impact.
Bring a first-aid kit, ’cause it’s gonna hurt.
The hollow echoes of some dim, distant pagan mythology are not the words of wisdom most deem them to be: they are, at best, a peek into the past of how we were, but not who, what or how we are today.
It is high time these anachronisms were laid to rest, on a shelf in a museum, or buried in some metaphorical graveyard with the other absurd oddities that litter our illustrious history.
I’d be more than happy to administer the last rites, in a manner of speaking….
1 July 2007, on 5:24 am
Okay, Brother KA, let’s start with using and abusing their code words. After all, you are a proud apostate, aren’t you?
So, I say “amen, brother”! Let’s wallpaper this country with their words but in our new context. Let’s over use them until they’re meaningless. Bless your heart for bringing this up. I had an epiphany while reading it.
Use their phrases before they do. Make it a game; see if you can say “god” or “jesus” before they do. And try to say it more times than they can. Snicker during it all…
And every time they send xian emails, send YouTubes of comedians that dismantle belief with humor.
Mock them. Parody them. Spoof their silliness. Field-dress them with the “funny scalpel”.
I’m tired of hyper-xian meta-bullshit. I’ll be nice to the liberal xians. But I’ll war on the fundies…
1 July 2007, on 7:19 am
And who better to mock them than Pat Condell and Eddie Izzard.
1 July 2007, on 8:15 am
Rolf: especially Pat Condell. I’ve watched every Condell-Rant on YouTube! I even find him sexy!
And for you and for Brother Krys, check out the Slut’s latest post. If you act right away, they’re throwing in Sundays FREE! Operators are standing by - even on Sunday! Don’t miss out on this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity! Act now!
1 July 2007, on 10:12 am
Naomi:
Can I get a ramen, sistah!
Glad you liked me Sunday sermon, hehehehe.
1 July 2007, on 12:33 pm
I no longer feel that it’s necessary to get the religious folks’ blessings for minority groups, either. I remember a former co-worker of mine, who was a “liberal” Methodist, telling me how proud she was that her denomination was against the ban on gay marriage amendment to the Texas constitution. I hadn’t heard about this, so I decided to research it on the net. I didn’t find any info on this, but I found out that the Methodists defrocked a lesbian minister just the month (October, 2005) before the Texas vote in November, 2005. All my “liberal” xian friend could say was, “These things take time.”
Now here’s what I’ve found out about the Bush appointee for surgeon general, Dr. James W. Holsinger, Jr., another wonderful gord-fearing Methodist:
More
here
And, of course, Holsinger was part of that Judicial Council. He also believes injury and disease will occur due to incorrect “pipe fittings”.
No more effin red carpet protection for religion, which, as it turns out, is often just a euphemism for outright bigotry and nonsense.
1 July 2007, on 1:34 pm
All I can say is AMEN, RAMEN…Thank you! By the way, at least in the US you have prosecuted/attempted to prosecute the vermin…in Mexico, the Catholic Church has openly refused to cooperate with national or international authorities on the matter of criminal priests. The Archbishop of Mexico City has stated to the press that the Mexican Catholic Church is NOT going to cooperate because it is an “internal matter”…kinda like the cosa nostra?
1 July 2007, on 3:22 pm
“The most curious social convention of the great age in which we live is the one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected.”
H. L. Mencken in American Mercury, March 1930
1 July 2007, on 5:48 pm
Good comments, guy. We should have a party. We should be enjoying our lives too. Because we live far apart from each other, maybe an internet party would do.
My comment on the post is everybody should be playing on a level playing field. It is not right to have one group to have an advantage. So a secular nation it is.
1 July 2007, on 7:37 pm
The people are asleep. To let this go on under any condition is just so wrong. But it takes a political or religious organization to get away with so many injustices. There aren’t any politicians who can really say that they are not bought and that their benefactors would be prosecuted if found out. Same goes for the churches, that hold themselves to a different standard.
Ramen and Hasta la Pasta babee.
1 July 2007, on 9:50 pm
“Entitled to believe you may be (it is a constitutional right, after all), but by no stretch is any religious person exempt from criticism, large or small. Nor am I required to respect a religious opinion simply just because.”
I’m not sure who said this, could have been Mencken, and I enjoy sharing it with my kids…
“We must respect the other fellow’s redigion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect tis theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.”
Nice posting KA, very motivating. THE FREE PASS HAS EXPIRED!!
2 July 2007, on 12:12 am
Nathan: yep, that’s Mencken, too.
I had a very enjoyable time with my Houston Church of Freethought friends again this fine (if rainy/wet) Sunday morning. It’s turning into an informal book club of sorts, which is pretty cool. I tend to bring a different freethought book every meetup as a kind of “show & tell”, and most people seem genuinely interested and have started doing the same. If I had T-Mobile I’d bring my laptop and show off my favorite atheist blogs, including this one here.
I’ve been very impressed with the turnouts at some of our recent Houston Atheist meetups.
Our last one was in the shadow of a satellite campus of 2nd Baptist Church of Houston, which is a big new mega-church trying to compete with Lakewood Church. Apparently the Cafe Express where we were enjoying each other’s company was property previously owned by 2nd Baptist.
A few of our number are die-hard Ayn Rand/Objectivist fanatics; I basically wear my Trotsky & Lenin shirts as a silent retort and a way to say “your *other* opinions are not universally shared by all atheists, so please don’t go there”.
2 July 2007, on 12:27 am
Kudos to KA.
My parents tried to instill the “respect your elders” BS when I was young and I soon learned a different lesson…
That respect should be earned, never given. Always.
Granted, I respect people I’ve never met but, using Randi as an example, I have ample reason to respect him through his writing, television appearances, and general body of work.
To offer automatic respect to any person simply based on what they believe is total malarkey. Doubly so when what they believe is farcical from the get-go.
2 July 2007, on 2:41 am
“…respect should be earned, never given. Always.”
I always thought I was the only one who thought that. I think it’s bullshit to simply respect just because someone’s older, or is in a position of higher authority, or whatever their excuse. If they’re being an asshole and disrespecting ME (as many religionists do), then like HELL am I going to respect them! Of course, this probably explains why I was constantly in trouble throughout my school years…. but I still stand by it!
2 July 2007, on 3:27 am
Kate, same thing happen to me, so you are not the only one who has been with a similar situation like that.
2 July 2007, on 7:54 am
This is somewhat off topic as to where this thread seems to be heading but is perhaps a good indicator of why we need to “take the gloves off” when dealing with the religious right. Visitors to RichardDawkins.net may have already seen this. In a 30 minute video, taken on board the Galapagos Islands tour boat Santa Cruz, Edward Tabash gives a speech regarding The Present Threat of the Religious Right to Our Modern Freedoms. Essential viewing for anyone concerned with separation of church and state.
2 July 2007, on 9:24 am
Sometimes it’s fun to do a thought experiment in which all the child molestors worked for a corporation instead of the roman catholic church. Can you imagine if 1100 complaints of child molestation were filed against, say, KMart in a given year? The angry mob at their corporate HQ would look like something from the last scene in a Frankenstein movie. So I guess that all you have to do is put the molesters in black robes and surround them with piles of mumbo-jumbo and they walk - as do their superiors who shield them from prosecution.
2 July 2007, on 10:40 am
I have seen cashiers at stores here in Utah accept a mormon “temple recommend” as a valid form of ID. When I mention to them that that isn’t a valid ID I always get the dirty look followed by the “mormon hater” mumble. I follow with my “fucking idiot” mumble and then I speak to the manager about training their clerks.
2 July 2007, on 1:17 pm
Rolf…
Thanks for the ‘heads up’ on that Edward Tabash video link.
I had seen the marvelous, Dawkins “Galapogos” talks; but wasn’t hip to Tabash.
You’re so right about it being an ‘essential’…must see(?)…video.
I thought it SO appropriate to this 4th of July holiday; that I linked it to a bunch of friends on my email list…yeah…almost invariably theists of one stripe or another; a few liberals…some very conservative…probably not even one true atheist.
I’ll be checking my email…erm…with trepidation?
[I've never been a nail biter, however!]
A bit early, but…
Happy SECULAR Independence Day…to all my, fellow GifSter, freedom loving heathens!
And…erm…
“Live long, and prosper”?
[gives 'Vulcan' salute!]
What’s that, Naomi?…ala William Shatner?…
“Get a life!”…?
2 July 2007, on 1:46 pm
Ooh, nice, KA; RAmen!
Barbiebrains, I’d heard that about Mexico, too, but I didn’t know if it was true or not. Bastards! They wouldn’t dare pull that crap in a truly secular country, so they press their heel down harder on the necks of the developing nations where they still have some kind of hold.
Fortunately (and continuing ChuckA’s sci fi theme), as Princess Leia would say, “The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.”
2 July 2007, on 9:39 pm
i totally agree w/the seperation btw church and state thing. if christians like myself want to practice our faith, we have the constitutional right to do so, no one tries to stop us. it is when we try and force others to believe and practice our beliefs, we then violate the free-will that we believe God has given all of us.
every one in this country is free to vote/believe/practice their beliefs, and the majority vote will be what it will be. christians who disagree with the laws that we believe are morals abominations are free to believe that, if that feeling is the case then we should practice it in our own personal lives and not force it any farther than we can vote it.
good to be back, a lot of new faces here
2 July 2007, on 9:41 pm
or should i say new names here
2 July 2007, on 10:55 pm
Wow, the only word you capitalized was “god”. Nice going.
2 July 2007, on 11:01 pm
it’s how i roll
2 July 2007, on 11:01 pm
james, you just can’t stay away and keep coming back, and back…and back. You will become an atheist yet!
2 July 2007, on 11:34 pm
Gord teach you that?
2 July 2007, on 11:50 pm
hey star, sorry about the babycakes comment a few months ago (i’m sure you forgot, but i didn’t), it was dumb and pretty pointless, but i will keep my promise not to evangelize, as sean told me before he died, it’s cool if i’m a christian here, as long as i remember this is an atheist blog.
3 July 2007, on 7:58 am
james, I completely forgot ahout the babycakes remark. Unlike xians, atheists don’t carry around a persecution complex.
Good that you will keep your promise not to evangelize, because if you don’t you will end up permanently moderated or banned.
Your hanging out here shows you must have questions about your own faith, and that is a good thing. Keep questioning and maybe one day you will shake off the shackles of superstitious religion.
3 July 2007, on 9:43 am
“Your hanging out here shows you must have questions about your own faith, and that is a good thing. Keep questioning and maybe one day you will shake off the shackles of superstitious religion.”
star, i would be lying if i said i didn’t give serious thought to what i believe every single day. EVERYONE needs to examine what they believe on a day to day basis. i can’t argue that what i live by is faith, so do you guys. anyone, believer or not, cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what they believe is true. it is faith (and faith is not strictly a religious word, i know ‘christians’ have hijacked it and that isn’t fair)
part of coming here is important to me because if i only surround myself with people who believe as i do, where is the fun in that?
i like gifs because you discuss politics and other stuff as well, that and the convivial atmosphere is why i keep coming back.
have a great 4th everyone
3 July 2007, on 9:55 am
Naomi said:
I got tired of getting those emails, and wrote my own in a post. It may not be for everyone, but it’s a start.
The last straw was getting one that was supposed to be from Andy Rooney. It wasn’t, but at some point it was modified to tell the 14% (since 86% believe in Gord) to “Shut up, sit down, and be quiet”. I decided that if those were circulated so much, that my voice should be heard, too. It may not go around as quickly as the “conservative” ones, but I’m trying.
-Berlzebub
3 July 2007, on 10:13 am
James said:
Faith is belief without evidence. Some atheists might rely on faith, but I rely more on trust. Can I say beyond the shadow of a doubt that “there is no God”? No. But with the absence of any evidence, I can say “I don’t believe there is a god”.
You seem like a nice guy, James. So, please don’t tell atheists that we “have faith, too”. That’s a sure way to get some people to stop talking to you, or even make them hostile to you, because it’s a thinly veiled insult to us. You may not consider it so, but if we had faith we’d probably still be believers.
3 July 2007, on 10:14 am
i can’t argue that what i live by is faith, so do you guys. anyone, believer or not, cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what they believe is true.
james, we have discussed this before. There is a big difference in your “faith” despite lack of evidence and our “non-belief” because of lack of evidence. You have faith that an all-powerful sky daddy exists without any evidence what-so-ever. Atheists simply do not believe your imaginary friend is real because we find no evidence at all to support such a claim. We cannot have “faith” in “lack of proof or evidence.” That is silly. We say for xians “prove their claims with evidence” and no Xian can.
We keep going around in these same circles with you.
3 July 2007, on 10:31 am
Berlzebub, I have read your post on your blog and it’s excellently written. I like this part:
Awesome response.
3 July 2007, on 10:50 am
Thank you, Stardust. I’m not as eloquent as I’d like to be, but I took my time (two days) writing it.
I’m hoping that others will write their own, or even copy/paste mine for emailing. I’ve seen so many “John 3:16″ or other conservative emails over the years. I think it’s time people figured out that we have beliefs too. I doubt it’ll change their minds, but it’ll at least let us know who is truly on the side of equal rights and voice.
3 July 2007, on 10:54 am
Berlzebub, at least you know how to capitalize…
3 July 2007, on 11:07 am
Maybe you should look into Deism. Natural God and Natural Law
They do not believe in revealed religions, i.e. The Revelations.
Deism.com
You don’t have to believe in God.
You don’t have to believe in theism, either.
God doesn’t give a shit. But hey, if you don’t believe in God, that’s cool too, man.
Maybe if you would think of another word other than atheism, it would help.
I don’t care if there is a god or not. It doesn’t matter to me. However, there is a spirit. When you kill that, there is no hope.
“When you’re dead, brother, life ain’t worth livin’.” - Nat King Cole
Actually, we don’t have to believe in god because the Constitution provides for that freedom. With the overwhelming LACK of evidence for one, we choose the rational explanation: There is no god. Ergo, we are atheists.
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you mean that YOU are offended by the word “atheist”? And that we should respect YOUR feelings? Perhaps you will explain yourself. Or better yet, why not reread the post? After all, that’s the premise: no more free pass for belief and believers. No more reflexive respect for a selfish cadre of exclusivistic elitists. No more turning a blind-eye to sexist and sexual predators. No more tolerance for exploitation and outright fraud. NO MORE!!! Period.
While you’re at it, explain how your hypersensitive feelings matter more than ours, more than atheists, agnostics and non-believers around the world. Explain why your hypersensitive feelings matter more than 42,000,000 people, in just the US alone (this is extrapolated from 2001 stats that show that 14% of Americans have no god). No telling how many atheists there are in Europe and Asia (a notorious hotbed of non-god belief-systems that are more humane and rational than xianity).
So, RA, STFU! Your tender sensibilities can wither and die from our indifference! We care not if you are offended, hurt, injured, bruised, battered or insulted.
Piss off, you deist worm!
With love, from the Moderators
3 July 2007, on 12:28 pm
Most god botherers believe their god DOES give a shit…that’s the problem in the world! They think their god wants them to suicide themselves and take out hundreds or thousands of people at the same time. Most god-botherers want everyone else to believe exactly as they do and threaten those who don’t with nightmare scenerios of a place called Hell if they reject those beliefs.
And you quote a line from song lyrics to prove what? When you are dead, you are dead. But that doesn’t lessen the life you have lived and the time you have had on earth.
You seem depressed…get some professional help, soon.
3 July 2007, on 12:34 pm
While I agree with the basic premise that god is not necessary for the universe and religion is not necessary to morality, and that the basic premise of religion is mere mythology and psychological defence against fear of unknown, I am not sure I understand the basic premise here.
Are you advocating the complete withdrawal of any respect for what some people feel is the defining motivation of their life? To what end? To declare superiority or, at least, to mock people who have an unrealistic view of the world and moral imperative? To what end? So that we, the atheists, can snicker and brood amongst ourselves?
The above response by the moderators says, “We care not if you are offended, hurt, injured, bruised, battered or insulted.” and goes on to call this poster a worm. Forgive me, but this sounds a lot like the mind-set of Fred Phelps- complete detachment from any humane understanding of those with a different view.
I suppose it is a valid point that this is a venue for atheist views and the trolling of the opposition is not appreciated, but I would think there are better ways to express this. And in any event the main article sounds more extensive.
I am certain that theists are wrong that our country is and should be a theocracy, and that religion is the only social construct to insure stability. But I am equally sure that these theists believe what they believe for a reason personal to them and that understanding that why is key to treating them like human beings, none the less. I see no profit in the O’Reilly method of demonizing your opponent, nor in the current politic process of polarization. I can not, therefore, understand why adopting it in for our cause is worthwhile.
By all means protest the ignorance and bullying that comes from the theists, and give no quarter when they seek to corrupt science or claim exclusive province for the truth, but is there no way to do so while maintaining their status as human beings?
3 July 2007, on 12:46 pm
but is there no way to do so while maintaining their status as human beings?
Not with lurking trolls that keep polluting the moderation queue and mailbag.
3 July 2007, on 12:51 pm
It’s much more than just “snickering amongst ourselves”. We mock because we are provoked constantly in today’s world by those who want to tell us what we must believe and that we can’t have life-saving vaccines because of THEIR beliefs, women can’t have the choice what to do with her own body because of their beliefs, go to war because their god tells them to, etc, etc.
When they cannot just believe what they choose, and try to force it onto everyone else and tell everyone else they must abide by beliefs we do not wish to share, then they are provoking a response. Respect goes both ways, and few religious people truly respect the rights of the non-believers to their freedom from religion. Most fundies do not respect or support separation of church and state. They choose to cherry-pick what they want to follow in the Constitution the same way they cherry-pick their religious texts. Being nice about it has not worked at all. They just get what they want when we “respect” them.
People are free to believe whatever they want to believe, and as long as they are trying to run the show according to THEIR own beliefs, there must be some kind of opposition. Being tolerant and respectful has only given the xians license to interject their religion more and more into our secular government and our personal lives. Give them an inch and they want everything their way according to their “religious values”.
3 July 2007, on 1:11 pm
BeethovenB80vin: to theists, atheists are inhuman and soulless, consigned to everlasting hell. Even when they don’t say it, they believe it! Liberal xians don’t find their way here - they don’t like the title of the blog…There are days, like today, when patience is used up, when the last spark of compassion and understanding flickers out. Sometimes, when finding you’ve reached at the end of your rope, you want to climb it with superhuman powers and fasten a noose in it - for the willfully ignorant and the preternaturally oblivious.
The trolls come here to roil the still waters of atheism, hating that we’re content without their rules, rites & ceremonies, proscriptions & prohibitions - and RESPECT for them.
I have failed to find a theist on atheist blogs that hasn’t made it clear from the outset that s/he is a xian and that we are deluded (and sometimes evil). And, maybe, one in a thousand actually does more than pay lip-service to respecting our right to not believe. I suspect that that rare individual is halfway to commmitting to atheism…
Lou Sheldon, huh? Wow! How about Fred Phelps?
3 July 2007, on 1:20 pm
RE “James”…and others like ‘him’…
In my opinion, anyone who doesn’t expend even the MINIMUM amount of effort to use standard capitalization ‘practices’ when expressing their thoughts in print; reveal a, perhaps, PROFOUND ‘laziness’ in their thinking habits. Of course, many theists…whether capitalizing or not…have a longtime, indoctrinated, and practiced laziness in examining their ‘preprogrammed’ ways of (non-)thinking. It also shows a huge amount of disrespect for others on the Blog that they’re visiting.
Somehow, in the case of James, it makes me think of someone walking into OUR midst, with his zipper wide open (or maybe even naked?)…dangling his…ahem…[perhaps paltry (non-Viagra influenced)?] “Family Jewels” in our faces.
Am I alone in that? What!…
“No respect”? Or is it more…
EEUUWWWW!
As to Deism…which many of the ‘Floundering Fathers’ were; it seems to me to be a sort of hanging on to a non-dogmatic, non-Revealed version of theism. It’s certainly, I think, a step in the right direction; but, was more popular in an age before Darwin and the subsequent knowledge of the Cosmos, brought to light by Einstein etc.
In today’s world of the Hubble telescope, advanced theories in Quantum Mechanics, String Theory; and the likes of Hawkings, Dawkins, and other more rational theoreticians…I think ANY clinging to a notion of a personal Deity…even a disinterested, “Gord that ran away, and doesn’t give a fuck”(?) notion, seems a bit…ummm…silly?
Like…erm…[In a 'Carlin-esque' snide voice?]
“He ran away!…Isn’t Gord NICE!”
“Hey, man”! It’s OK to NOT know the ‘Ultimate Answer’ to the Universe(s?)…BUT…
the idea that “SOME kind of PERSONAL Gord did it”…as a seriously proposed answer…
REALLY sucks!
3 July 2007, on 2:22 pm
The Big Bang theory is nothing more than Creation Theory dressed up in sexed-up scientific rhetoric.
Care to explain in detail how this comment is true using scientific data and examples? You are just coming here throwing out bullshit comments.
Atheism is a religion. It doesn’t matter how much you slice it and dice it, it is a belief system based on the concept that there is no god. If you want to believe that, fine. There is no god. Atheists are prime targets of Islamic fundamentalists, btw. They’ll run the cutlass up to the hilt into your liver.
WTF kind of comment is that? Seems like anybody from a western country, god-botherer or not is “prime targets” of Islamic fundies. And even Islamic fundies of different sects are killing each other! Were all the folks in the World Trade Center atheists??????
I really don’t care if you don’t believe in god. Atheism is just another religion hoping for a revelation of solid proof that there is no god. You want to be the revelation. It just isn’t going to work that way.
On one hand you say you don’t care, and then you continue to be bothered that we are atheists. And again, you also know absolutely noting about atheism. Atheists are not hoping for proof of no god. One cannot prove something that does not exist…but god believers are claiming the existence of a living god…so we require evidence of that before we are going to believe it.
You don’t know nor will you ever know. There are no facts, just scientific certainties.
FYI…facts and scientific certainties are pretty much the same damn thing. Facts are backed up with scientific evidence.
Go ahead, believe what you will. Whip every body on the planet into believing there is no god. Who will then be the Grand Inquisitors?
We say a person has a right to believe what he/she chooses. We just want the fundamentalists to stop forcing their religion on everyone else, especially in secular nations where we are trying to maintain separation of church and state. Complacent people like yourself are aiding the fundamentalists in their quest to build a theocracy. Grand Inquisitor? If religion did not exist, there would still be power-hungry warmongers, but wars and terrorism based on superstitious sky daddy beliefs would not be a problem.
I will reiterate, atheism is just another religion with fewer followers. Your beliefs have no proof either.
Proof for atheism? Proof of non-belief? That is absurd. One cannot prove something does not exist. But those who are making the claim that something does exist should be able to produce the evidence for their claim. If I say I have a pink unicorn in my basement, or a diamond mine in my backyard, I would be required to produce evidence for such a claim. So far, no one has ever been able to produce even a shred of evidence for the existence of their god.
I don’t know if there is a god and I don’t know if there is no god. Jimmy cracked corn and I don’t care.
Then go find somewhere else to play since you don’t care. You are simply here to troll and throw out flame bait then.
“Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.” –Albert Einstein
You like quote websites, don’t you.
If you come here only to troll, and have nothing to add to the discussion except to spew out your depression and spew out the same old shit over and over, you will be banned. ~ Moderator
3 July 2007, on 5:45 pm
Man… I really liked this Einstein quote until the fundies started to use it.
Since that time I have resorted to the works of Shakespeare.
“Who will then be the Grand Inquisitors?”
Somehow this sentence made me laugh
3 July 2007, on 5:56 pm
Who will then be the Grand Inquisitors?”
Somehow this sentence made me laugh
Daggetto - I was cracking up so much when I read that! How dramatic!
3 July 2007, on 8:54 pm
RA is cute. In an annoying, “heard-it-all-a-million-times,” “Aw, look at the little fundie trying out new arguments he/she just learned from Comfort/Cameron” sort of way.
“I will reiterate, atheism is just another religion…”
Next he’s gonna tell us that we only use 10% of our brains. Or that Darwin recanted evolution on his death bed. Or that the fucking Mothman is real.
Atheism has no doctrine, no dogma, no rites, no initiations, no elected or appointed leaders, no churchs/temples/mosques, no books of codified rules and laws, and no generally cohesive structure which dictates what all atheists must believe.
So, how, in the name of holy names of Gomer and Goober Pyle is atheism a religion?
Hell, I can just make up insipid nonsense and say it, too…
“Antelopes are melons.” They must be; they sound like “cantaloupes.”
3 July 2007, on 9:07 pm
No ChuckA, you’re not alone. It is disrepectful, especially when it’s willful. “it’s how i roll.” Sheesh. Mr. Nonconformist. Get a fucking grammar book.
3 July 2007, on 9:36 pm
Unfortunately for you, repeating something does not make it true. Atheism is not a religion and you know it. If it were, you would be referring to yourself as an abigbangist; writing, printing, distributing, and teaching the Bible of Abigbangism; and proselytizing in order to get more people to join your Church of There-Is-No-Such-Thing-As-the-Big-Bang.
Just like most other theists who come here to argue, you’re trying to frame a conversation with us on your terms, the terms of religion, belief, and faith. It makes just as much sense for me to challenge an apastarian to prove there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Oh, and proper capitalization is teh bomb!
3 July 2007, on 9:56 pm
Hey, I came across this web site and posted a couple of comments on what a belief system consists of, nothing else. If I wanted to get your goat, I could do it in more crass ways; I prefer to argue in defiance of what you purport.
“When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.”
–J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, pp.51-52
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/
It also includes atheists.
Wrong….you are such a hard-headed troll.
The term “atheist” is simply a word that describes one who has rejected all existing theistic concepts. It is not a religion. We do not claim to have the monopoly on truth, but we have not been presented with any kind of evidence to convince us that a god or supernatural beings exist. Nothing even close has ever been found. We don’t care what you believe, as long as you don’t try to force your beliefs on others, and we wish to uphold our secular government and the separation of church and state. If you wish to believe in pink unicorns or flying spaghetti monsters we could give two flying fucks as long as you do it in your own little groups and not try to force it on everyone. Now…do you finally get it?
3 July 2007, on 10:25 pm
Atheism is just another religion
Not Collecting Stamps is a hobby.
(stolen from someone, although I don’t recall whom)
3 July 2007, on 11:03 pm
KA
Great post. Hope your doing well. We DO need to end this shit soon and put it in a museaum.
RA
What do you think your the God RA? Your posts got each fact WRONG. There’s nothing else to say.
Rev Jenner.
Loved the 10 commands. Keep it up.
3 July 2007, on 11:19 pm
Wow, such predictable responses from the other side of the fence.
RA - hey, that’s how I used to roll. Hmmm…time to fisk a puppy or 2.
Tried it. Didn’t take.
Why, thank you.
Feeling a tad benevolent, aren’t we?
(he said, taking another hit off his bong)
Stoner cosmology. I love it.
About the lamest lapse in most of your comments. Where oh where did your theodicy go? For that matter, from whence did it spring?
Definitions are such tricky, subjective critters.
Here, I’ll do your homework for (but just this once!)
Religion
1.
a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
Now, honesty time: which 1 were YOU referring to?
As to the Krishnamurti quote, I have issues.
It’s too New Agey for my taste. We use labels to define ourselves, not as a separation per se, but as a means of communication. Humanity does tend to split itself into cliques of sorts, ’tis true, & true enough again, this lends itself to a form of xenophobia. It’s how we were built, hard to get around.
But it’s also a way for us to share, & talk amongst ourselves. To know that others share the lonely thoughts that brew in each of our own skulls.
Smoke a fattie over that 1, get back to me.
Oh, & james?
That’s a roundabout approach to the negative proof fallacy.
Onus is on the believer to prove there’s a human face on the universe.
Regardless of seeing 1 on a tortilla or taco shell, that is.
3 July 2007, on 11:32 pm
Wrong as wrong can be. It’s when you say “I am an X, and I am better than you” is when violence ensues. There’s nothing wrong with knowing who and what you are, your heritage. But saying one person’s heritage or ethnicity is better than another’s is the ultimate arrogance.
Which is not to say that beliefs can’t be better than others.
3 July 2007, on 11:43 pm
jimmer,
Merci beaucoup, mon petit chou chou.
RA,
You may think that you understand atheism (and atheists), but you don’t (or can’t) articulate what you think that you understand.
Atheism, and atheists, are as far from religion as you can possibly get. Sure, Christians may consider us to be “Satanists,” in the despicable lure of the Dauphin of Impending Twilight (the “Prince of Darkness” is played out), but they’re just using familiar terminology to frame an unfamiliar concept.
So, based on your last quote (which you, presumably agree with), what’s the solution? What’s the panacea?
Who or what do we believe in, in your opinion?
Remember, most of us may consider ourselves “atheists,” we’re really hardcore agnostics.
And, once again, our lack of belief in any manner of god is only that. A lack of belief. Our “belief system” is a very basic love of humanity and a general desire to good for everyone, not just those who do or don’t believe what we do or don’t believe.
It’s been said by numerous people on this site (everyone who’s posted and damn-near everyone who’s commented); we don’t want to deny anyone a right to do anything legal.
We just hate it when people tell us how we should live our lives when their only baseline for life comes from a bullshit book written by scientifically illiterate people a few thousand years ago.
3 July 2007, on 11:54 pm
Ooh…
I wish KA’s rebuttal had loaded up before I hit “Submit Comment.”
Golden…
4 July 2007, on 7:22 am
From the moderators: RA - we now realize you are a god-bothering troll, spamming the queue with excessively long insulting comments, and full of incoherent ramblings. Go get some help for that drug problem.
6 July 2007, on 4:44 pm
Chuckling out loud, here; I guess RA showed his true colors at last! Checks are in the mail, everyone…
8 July 2007, on 3:34 pm
Man, I miss everything! I came a little to late. So my question is, Why do the religious followers want to control everything? I mean if everyone submitted to their rule;what will they do?
10 July 2007, on 9:07 am
Why is that when I come in, the comments stops? I must have some weird atheist peculiarity.
10 July 2007, on 10:38 am
Myron, it seems once people move on to the newer posts, they fuggetabout the old ones unless a fundie troll comes with flame bait. It’s not you.