An atheist in a town of believers
28 July 2007 by StardustI don’t watch television very often, so missed this segment that was shown on ABC’s 20/20. Many of you, particularly those who live in Kansas, Oklahoma and southern states can relate to what this atheist family has had to deal with being surrounded and far outnumbered by fundies. Raindogzilla wrote about this story last year in a post titled Very Small Rocks.
Many of us atheists pay a price for being open and honest about our atheism. I have been judged and even cut off from communication in some cases, simply because I refused to just shut up and pretend to be someone I am not. I was supposed to allow others “of faith” to say whatever they wanted to me or in my presence and to just bite my tongue and keep my own non-belief to myself. If I refused to participate in prayer, it was viewed as an attack against the believers, when in fact it wasn’t that at all. It would be dishonest and disrespectful to myself and others to pretend and go along with something I did not believe in. However, Christians and most believers want non-believers to pretend for their sake, maybe because many of them are pretending themselves since they want so much for their fantasy to be true. They want to live forever. We are a threat to that fantasy because we dare to not believe it.
My heart goes out to the girl in this video report. Christians can be quite heartless, cruel and downright vindictive when they encounter those who do not share their personal beliefs.
Ed. note: One of our regulars, remy, has found a first hand report from Mr. Smalkowski at Democratic Underground.com. Yes indeed, you do have to admire the courage of this man.
28 July 2007, on 1:43 am
Another excellent example of “xian luv”!
I’m so mad I could scream! And part of me wants to go Hard-Ass-D Oklahoma and start punching – beginning with the two pastor couples (three of whom are obese pigs)! Aaargh!
So typical to bully a young woman. I imagine they never tried to treat her father that way. But what do we expect from exclusionaries and jeebus-elitists?
Dumb fucking red-state okies!
28 July 2007, on 1:57 am
Naomi, all these fundies look like potato people. Like they’ve eaten too much potato salad and cilantro with a side of bacon fat.
28 July 2007, on 2:30 am
Like they’ve eaten too much potato salad and cilantro with a side of bacon fat.
It appears we cilantrists are even more hated than atheists in this country. I never thought I would feel the cold harsh reality of discrimination among my fellow atheists.
28 July 2007, on 4:02 am
Cilantro aside, (which, for the record, I have no real issue with) I agree with Naomi. I wanted to drive down and beat some Okie ass. However, this in not surprising. My grandmother is visiting from S.D. and today she said that she did not believe me that I believed in “nothing.” I told her that I believe in plenty of things but gawd is not one of them. Most people don’t even know what an atheist, deist, or agnostic really are. The saddest thing is that my cousin, who believes much the same as me, sat there and said nothing. Too scared to confront little old grandma, I guess.
28 July 2007, on 4:15 am
On another note, at least we aren’t the bad guys in this piece.
28 July 2007, on 6:17 am
Sad story…
At least you have the right to homeschool your children over there. The only thing you can do against such “inofficial” discrimination (not only religious) here in germany is to learn to ignore 80% of the people around you.
There is hope though: The higher the educational institution you attend the lower this percentage gets. At my university I’ve yet to meet this kind of people who dominated the junior high.
28 July 2007, on 7:21 am
I wish in my past I had a few drops of that young woman’s courage. Most of the sports teams I played on prayed before games and I just stood there and stared at the ground. I was too afraid to rock the boat and stand up for what I believed.
I suppose one could argue that she is missing out on opportunities and suffering from being an outcast as a consequence of her courage. At her young age, the price is high. However, I bet she will be happy she stood up for herself looking back on her experiences. I would guess that Nicole will go on to do great things with her life while the rednecks of that silly little town will end up on Jerry Springer.
Here is a funny quote from Bob Knight. When asked by a reporter why his team doesn’t pray before basketball games Coach Knight said “because god doesn’t give a damn about college basketball!” Classic.
28 July 2007, on 9:00 am
There is more to the story:
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/smalko1.htm
28 July 2007, on 9:15 am
Sorry about this but I found a first hand report from Mr. Smalkowski. You have to admire his courage. Can’t say I would have stayed.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=173&topic_id=1263&mesg_id=1510
28 July 2007, on 10:00 am
The jury believed the Atheists. Unanimously.
The night of the verdict, tornados of unusual violence descended on the panhandle of Oklahoma. The home of the Principal who had brought the false charges against Chuck Smalkowski was severely damaged.
This fact has no relationship whatsoever to the verdict.
Love it!
On a more serious note, kudos to Nicole for having such courage. And what a wonderful example of xianity the school sets. Bullies, cowards and liars all. Their christ would be sooo impressed. [/sarcasm]
28 July 2007, on 11:12 am
Wow. What a great story. I was outraged, I laughed, I cried… This has the makings of a great book or movie. I hope his civil suit turns out well. Thanks Remy for the follow up posts on Mr. Smalkowski’s trial and letter to DU.
28 July 2007, on 11:28 am
Go Nicole! There is no way that I could ever have the courge to do what she did.
And on another note, I never really understood the concept of praying before sports. Even when I was a Christian, the thought of athletes praying to win a game seemed really selfish. I mean, doesn’t their god have better things to worry about?
28 July 2007, on 1:07 pm
It’s a sign of emotional immaturity to so identify with a myth or viewpoint that anyone not inside is ‘alien other’ who must be absorbed or destroyed. Plus, places like that are largely kept in line by a heirachy.
We have the same sort of thing up here in some places. A doctor from Pittsburgh retired to one little burg and openned a small practice like a country doctor in the old days. Everything worked fine…during the day. But the same people whose kids he cared for cut rate vandalised his property at night, made threatening calls, and finally assaulted his wife. To live there you needed to be Polish and Catholic. There were arrests, commentswere of the flavor, “It wasn’t anything personal, but…”
Not far from there lady renovated a station as a meeting place for local atheists, sold books and such. She’s given a hard time. Look up Atheist Station for more about it. Lori Polanski is her name. She is a local bete noir as far as the religious are concerned.
Sarah, I think they have a god that is a reflection of themselves. Depends on their mood at the moment. This god is omni scient, potent, and present, yet can be fooled or cajoled just like their “earthly” father. And they’re only doing what Jesus would do…if he knew the facts of the case and wasn’t such a wussy: turning the other cheek, loving enemies, doing good to those that hate you, even, (shudder) granting salvation willy-nilly to people who don’t even go to the
right” church…anyway, lucky xians, they can find verses that trump the goody-two-shoes ones and encourage smiting and such. Since this Jesus doesn’t go into God Zilla mode til end times, get your licks now in case there’s forgiveness.
I’ve actually been told that there HAS to be a hell for people like us, otherwise heaven makes no sense and has no use.
28 July 2007, on 1:17 pm
“Christians can be quite heartless, cruel and downright vindictive when they encounter those who do not share their personal beliefs.”
Seriously, good thing I’ve never experienced that here.
Since that is clearly “snark”, and that you feel you’ve been “crucified-like-your-savior”, we wonder why you hang out here. It occurs to us that you love the attention. Only self-examination will bring self-knowledge, james, since you won’t listen to our theories. Try it. Let us know what you find…
28 July 2007, on 3:06 pm
Does anyone know of a way to send a note of support to the Smalkowskis, especially Nicole and her sisters?
28 July 2007, on 3:16 pm
“Many of us atheists pay a price for being open and honest about our atheism. I have been judged and even cut off from communication in some cases, simply because I refused to just shut up and pretend to be someone I am not. I was supposed to allow others “of faith” to say whatever they wanted to me or in my presence and to just bite my tongue and keep my own non-belief to myself.”
Make all of that the opposite (in my case at this site) and you should notice the hypocrisy.
“we wonder why you hang out here.”
Shits and giggles.
You are in the minority here and in the majority there. Why not find six more of your friends to come help you? Then you seven will represent the 14% that we make up in your world, where you have unlimited power, where you have five-ninths of the SCOTUS, where you have all of the GOP and many of the DEMS, where you have the POTUS and VPOTUS, where you have megachurches that resemble rock-concert venues, where you have proselytizing zealots that visit uninvited, where you have a cowed media that dares not shine the bright light of scrutiny and criticism on religion…
…and where a whole town hates a young girl who has the courage of her convictions in the face of their hatred.
How very brave you xians are! I’m sure your imaginary jesus would be so proud.
Your “shits and giggles” are about to get you uninvited, james.
28 July 2007, on 3:45 pm
Kat said-
“Does anyone know of a way to send a note of support to the Smalkowskis, especially Nicole and her sisters?”
I was thinking the same thing.
I found this-
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=67090362
It appears to be Nicole’s MySpace page. It looks authentic. Tell me what you think.
28 July 2007, on 4:25 pm
Remy, there’s an even better post from Charleyski on DU. It tells how much money that was bled from him by his early lawyers – as though they were trying to bankrupt him, including the one lawyer who neglected to tell him that the school board was in violation of federal law for allowing/encouraging the athletes’ prayers during the games! Only after ACLU in San Francisco tipped Charley off about this did the lawyer admit it; when Charley wrote him to demand his money back, this fine attorney sent him a bill for an additional $5,000 – claiming services for the act of reading the letter!
America would be better off if a god-flu struck down those susceptible to religion! And james, if you can devise a permanent cure for your affliction and all who suffer from it, you all can live. The Empress of Reason has spoken!
28 July 2007, on 4:44 pm
james’ response “Shits and giggles.”
I told you that james would poop on the carpet if we let him in the door again.
james, Shits and giggles? Well, you did say you were here just to bolster your sky daddy beliefs…we are no longer going to help you out with that. Bye bye james. You are one of the few on the banned list.
28 July 2007, on 5:38 pm
I love coming here and shitting up the place because I am a masochist for my imaginary sky daddy. I need a good daily dose of persecution complex to get me through my day. I keep coming back, and getting banned over and over again, and I spend so much time on atheist blogs, because I sure am not finding anything of interest or useful at Christian sites, and I am lonely because my imaginary friend never talks back and Jeebus won’t talk to me either.
james…no more asshatting, we are done playing with you. Bye bye…moderators
28 July 2007, on 6:06 pm
Buh-bye, james! We hardly ken ye! Rest in peace, ye puir sod!
28 July 2007, on 6:24 pm
james can now relish the enjoyment of being fully persecuted for today.
28 July 2007, on 8:49 pm
Let’s get back on-topic, shall we? Enough about children crapping on our nice carpets…
Has anybody visited my link in comment #18? It truly is enough to make us sick. Xian officers of the court and, indeed, the cops and the assistant prosecutor lying and hiding documents! Imagine taking a man’s money and pretending to represent him, knowing that you have no intention of doing anything but…take his money!
Religion is a corrupting influence. Become a believer and there is no crime you can’t excuse!
28 July 2007, on 9:15 pm
So like what do you think it means when I get all giggly and feeling good inside when I see an asshatting and jesus on the crapper. Do you think I need help oh great mods? LOL And james was doing so well but like all believers who have ocd, he couldn’t help himself. I gotta hand it to him he lasted quite awhile.
I remember this issue from last year. The tornado bit just plain cracks me up. The Jury? Were they the good xians and did the honest thing? Or were the people they interviewed for this show the good Xians? Hmmmm kinda makes ya wonder.
28 July 2007, on 11:46 pm
Stardust…thanks much for posting that incredible story.
So many great comments; and finally…James gets the well deserved boot!
He’s just one more literal reinforcement of my longtime opinion; that it’s a total waste of time getting into discussions with brainwashed believers. We’ve all been there and know the game. Even after suggesting links to explore; the fundie brain…especially the young, heavily ‘programmed’ ones…are too brainwashed and still immune to any rational breakthrough.
Fear and Guilt, as usual, trump independent thinking!
Perhaps-haps-haps (echo?)…more life experience will change that scenario…but…’mean’ as I am…
“I couldn’t care less!”
What a marvelous and courageous family, are the Smalkowskis. At least the 20/20 piece, even with the, apparent believer (not surprising), John Stossel, gave some time to Dawkins and The American Atheists.
A huge Ramen to Nicole Smalkowski and her dad. Amazing courage. And a hard lesson for all of us atheists, perhaps.
I’ve noticed in MY small sphere; that since I ‘came out’ to various friends and associates, as actually BEING an atheist, I get very few emails these days from some, older, formerly close friends, etc. Fortunately, I’m semi-retired, and not really affected in any employment situation, etc.
Does anyone…(Stardust?)…know the actual date that the 20/20 piece was run on?
The actual YouTube page…for additional curiosity?…just states May of 2007:
[I find that, just checking the associated page comments, is sometimes revealing…the occasional intelligent comment…amongst the plethora of the incredibly stupid ones! Especially regarding any videos involved with atheism! Take a look?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H48tFhpwD74
29 July 2007, on 12:26 am
On the myspace page listed above (#17) explains the date and time as well as the youtube clip. The page seems real. It even has clips of Nicole’s band and links to her dad’s book. There are also some of the court documents listed on the American Atheists web page. american atheists lawsuits I read through them all and I must say I was even more disgusted then before.
Spam must love you tonight! My guess is your failed attempt at linking. See other comment with some advice. Sorry. Mods
29 July 2007, on 12:29 am
american atheists lawsuits
I hope that this link works. My first time trying it.
It has some of the legal documents pertaining to this case.
I found this in spam. Sorry! Try this for links: Xa xhref=”"target=”_blank”Xlinking textX/aX
Cut and paste that into a file and save.
Replace the four large Xs with < and its partner: left, right, left, right; delete the small x in front of href - the code wants to work and keeps adding things I take out!
Everytime you need it, paste it into the comment box, URL goes between quotes left of “target”, replace “linking text” with [whatever: title, word, etc.] Sorry for being cryptic but most of that will disappear if I don’t disable its magic powers! Mods
29 July 2007, on 12:30 am
Nicole’s Myspace page looks very crowded. Hard to focus on anything.
I admire her courage, and at the risk of seeming shallow, I think she’s quite pretty too.
The one thing I might have responded differently to John Stossel is when Smalkowski told him that you can’t prove God exists, and Stossel shot back “Well, you can’t prove he doesn’t exist.” I think the correct answer in situations like that is to say “I can’t prove that there isn’t a greater intelligent than us in the universe, but it can be reasonably demonstrated that the God of the Bible does not exist.”
30 July 2007, on 12:28 am
Weird, that looks like the code I tried. Naomi sent me an e-mail with that code in it and I cut and pasted. Oh well, I’ll try it again some other time. Thanks and sorry.
30 July 2007, on 8:54 am
Like most xians, James’ vision is so incredibly narrow. He fails to see a difference between a web site where people vent about the stupidity of religion and the persecution of people in the real world trying to live their lives. It’s funny, since many people came to this country to escape religious persecution, James comes here TO BE persecuted. How fucked in the head do you have to be for that?
The bottom line is, you don’t see atheists picketing xian bookstores (of where there are legion) or xian films or *gag* xian rock concerts. But let a proclaimed atheist business open up and here comes the persecution…
30 July 2007, on 4:06 pm
Fellow mods, I salute ye for banning james; truly he who is given enough rope doth hang himself in the end.
My heart goes out to this family; they’re certainly serving as shining examples of courage and togetherness in a community that doesn’t deserve them. That society would be served right if it lost members like them and were left to stew and rot in its own self-made hell. I don’t know if I would have stayed, either, or had the guts to stand up to such fascists.
A website is certainly not the same as harrassment and persecution in the real world and besides, for every site like GifS, there are two True Xian (TM) ones like God Hates Fags and God, Guns and Glory.
30 July 2007, on 4:36 pm
It’s always been irksome to me that gun ownership is lumped in with xians, lol. I own a few, but am not an NRA flag-waver.
30 July 2007, on 6:06 pm
for every site like GifS, there are two True Xian ™ ones like God Hates Fags and God, Guns and Glory.
Eve, and don’t forget the gang members at Triablogue and Frank Walton, Sable Chicken etc. GifSters who have been around for awhile will remember my run-in with GGG when I was new to the blogosphere and GifS. Sean even backed off from those freaks. They were damned creepy! I would hate to be their neighbors in the real world. These people are the total contradiction of the phrase, “loving Christian”. (We sure did have some fun around here with Triablogue and Paul Manata, however
)
30 July 2007, on 8:41 pm
That’s why GGG stuck in my mind, Star; they were seriously freaky in the way they swarmed after you (I remember you likened visiting their site to “stepping in a nest of vermin”). And Triablogue were among the most hypocritical sleazebuckets I’ve encountered, ad-hom-ing you when you hadn’t even been to their site or had any exchange with them!
By the way, I’m compiling epithets for the Bush Administration and its backing cabal; so far I’ve recorded the following:
- the Bush Crime Family/Syndicate
- the Evil Empire (from Star Wars)
- the HYDRA (from Marvel Comics)
- COBRA (from G.I. Joe – and yes, I watched the animated series! I wonder if I was the only female to do so…)
- the neo-con dominionist Republican would-be theocracy/theocratic dictatorship (too wordy, I know)
- the Shrubbery (maybe too cute, but a nod to Monty Python)
30 July 2007, on 10:26 pm
Hey Eve and all…check this out for some fun!
Get your Bush Nickname!
31 July 2007, on 3:49 pm
^ Ha, ChuckA! I wonder why no nickname for plain ol’ vanilla-’n'-mayonnaise Caucasians like me?
Oh, I get it: I’m Vanilla!