“Anger is a Gift”
16 October 2007 by Bob
Yep, once in a while you just need a boost from Da Boize.
As a follow-up to my previous post, I found this little ditty from Pharyngula:
I’m angry that according to a recent Gallup poll, only 45 percent of Americans would vote for an atheist for President.I’m angry that atheist conventions have to have extra security, including hand-held metal detectors and bag searches, because of fatwas and death threats.
I’m angry that atheist soldiers — in the U.S. armed forces — have had prayer ceremonies pressured on them and atheist meetings broken up by Christian superior officers, in direct violation of the First Amendment. I’m angry that evangelical Christian groups are being given exclusive access to proselytize on military bases — again in the U.S. armed forces, again in direct violation of the First Amendment. I’m angry that atheist soldiers who are complaining about this are being harassed and are even getting death threats from Christian soldiers and superior officers — yet again, in the U.S. armed forces. And I’m angry that Christians still say smug, sanctimonious things like, “there are no atheists in foxholes.” You know why you’re not seeing atheists in foxholes? Because believers are threatening to shoot them if they come out.
I’m angry that the 41st President of the United States, George Herbert Walker Bush, said of atheists, in my lifetime, “No, I don’t know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God.” My President. No, I didn’t vote for him, but he was still my President, and he still said that my lack of religious belief meant that I shouldn’t be regarded as a citizen.
I’m angry that it took until 1961 for atheists to be guaranteed the right to serve on juries, testify in court, or hold public office in every state in the country.
I’m angry that almost half of Americans believe in creationism. And not a broad, “God had a hand in evolution” creationism, but a strict, young-earth, “God created man pretty much in his present form at one time within the last 10,000 years” creationism.
And, once again, as I’ve said before: “So, when you get the urge to ask us why we’re ’so angry’, try shutting the fuck up and looking around. Once you actually break out of your solipsistic world, you’ll see (1) that there are other people in the world, and (2) that your beliefs actually do affect these other people.”
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to get back to Da Boize…
16 October 2007, on 11:43 am
Actually in the military you don’t have all your constitutional rights. If you’re ordered to do something, you don’t have the right to refuse, unless it’s an illegal order, and that’s shaky ground.
I wouldn’t vote for a candidate simply because he was an atheist, so I’m not sure why the guy is angry. I try to look at the bigger picture.
16 October 2007, on 11:50 am
I’m angry that it took until 1961 for atheists to be guaranteed the right to serve on juries, testify in court, or hold public office in every state in the country.
1961? Oh my gawd. That’s fucked up! I thought it was fucked up that women didn’t get the right to vote until 1920.
If the Commander-in-Chief doesn’t think I’m a citizen, fine. He’s got money. He’s got connections. He could have my immigration paperwork handled in a timely manner, and I’d be happy to take leave of this wacko fundie country. Although, Europe is definitely out. Too many goddamned Muslims there.
16 October 2007, on 1:07 pm
My wife is a Wiccan (debate for later time) who was doing community service at a religiously based place. She let it slip she was a Wiccan, and a staff member decided to make her into a slave. The next day, the boss told her that she was a slacker, and that it was because of family, heritage, or religion.
Clear cut case of religious discrimination in my mind.
I’m angry that in this country, Christians can get away with discrimination because most other religions don’t have the backing to force a lawsuit, and this is providing that the law hasn’t been changed yet.
Fortunately, the pious Christians have maggots in their meat cutters. They’re getting inspected.
16 October 2007, on 1:29 pm
“I wouldn’t vote for a candidate simply because he was an atheist, so I’m not sure why the guy is angry. I try to look at the bigger picture.”
That’s not what is meant, it means that if people know a candidate is an atheist, they won’t vote for them regardless of their qualifications. So basically, you could be a great candidate and their hero, but if they find out that you’re an atheist, you’ve lost their vote. The big picture is what makes the atheist vs. religious person so aggravating, the little picture is the one where someone just goes “Who gives a shit if the ten commandments are on the lawn of the court house?”
16 October 2007, on 1:53 pm
I understand that, Ford. But it makes no sense to be angry about it. It’s no different than voting Democrat just because you don’t want to vote republican.
16 October 2007, on 1:54 pm
What’s to debate? It’s as silly as all the others.
16 October 2007, on 2:17 pm
Well, it’s a bit different than voting democrat or republican, because those are explicitly political. Why shouldn’t we be pissed about people voting for someone or not voting for them for stupid reasons? After all, the people and laws being voted on do affect us. When people vote for a moron because he/she is a christian, we get screwed. When people don’t vote for a qualified candidate because he/she is an atheist, that, to me, is a very frustrating thing.
If you don’t want to get upset about it, that’s fine. I understand that position. Some people just want to live their lives and cut out any stress that they perceive as unnecessary and I respect that. Or perhaps you just think it doesn’t really matter in the big picture. I don’t really agree with that, but there’s no need to argue about that here and now.
16 October 2007, on 2:45 pm
I know what you’re trying to say, but “When people vote for a moron because he/she is a christian, we get screwed. When people don’t vote for a qualified candidate because he/she is an atheist, that, to me, is a very frustrating thing.” is really no different than voting the party line regardless of whether the candidate is a moron or not. It’s the same thing with a different name, that’s all.
It’s frustrating for me too, but it’s not one-sided.
16 October 2007, on 3:25 pm
Well, in that case, both are frustrating outcomes. But you bring up an interesting point. I’ve long been frustrated with people because of their dumb decisions that affect me. Atheism just seems to be a focal point for the likes of us because that seems to be one big target that a lot of people attack us for in many different areas of life. This is an atheist site, so obviously the main topic is going to center around the morons that target atheists specifically, that doesn’t mean that we don’t get angry about other morons in other areas of life.
16 October 2007, on 4:59 pm
Point taken, Ford. I’ll agree, and be angry too. Now where’s that shotgun…
16 October 2007, on 6:22 pm
“Anger is an energy…”- Public Image Ltd.
I’m not really angry, though I can gin up a fury at the drop of a hat in response to various ridiculousities that catch my attention…oooh, shiny object! Where was I? Hmm…
So, I guess I’ve never equated my atheism with some sort of second class citizenship ala women’s suffrage, civil and/or gay rights. Oh, I’ll fight- with fists, even(probably quicker than an adult ought), against penetrations of that magnificent constitutional Wall. But I can’t say that I’ve ever felt oppressed or been held back from anything I was after- okay, there was that sort of lukewarm xian girl who wouldn’t part with the…nevermind.
Perhaps, it’s because I’m self-employed and, therefore, immune to the workplace bullshit of a fucktard superior. Perhaps it’s because I don’t ever hesitate to speak my mind, just as I do here, but always with a smile and a twinkle in my eye. People just don’t generally give me any grief about my godlessness- except for a select few relatives who’s voices I’ve succeeded in distorting to that of Charlie Brown’s teacher in my head. Of course, being 6′4″ and two-fifty probably doesn’t hurt either.
In general, though, our social plight, as atheists, is more molehill than mountain and the tide does seem to have turned. Think about it. Even ten years ago, you wouldn’t see hide nor hair of atheist books being published. Now, not only are “The God Delusion”, “The End of Faith”, and “God Is Not Great” out there but they’re freakin’ bestsellers! Falwell’s dead, Haggard’s gone homoerotic, Roberts is under investigation, D. James Kennedy is also dead, Kent Hovind is in jail, Ken Ham has spent 20 some million bucks building a monument to stupidity, “God” is on television commercials. I mean, it’s not over, mind you. It’s not time to assemble the Lollipop Guild for a rousing rendition of “Ding Dong…”
But half-full, mes amis, half-full…
16 October 2007, on 7:40 pm
‘Tis true Rev, but I didn’t really want to get into that, so much as what happened to her.
16 October 2007, on 7:53 pm
The attribute that makes me the absolute angriest about Christians is that they think they have some type of superior, special knowledge of God, the Bible, etc but when it comes down to it I know their religion better and more deeply than 99.999% of them.
WTF is this when I know the Bible better than a believer?
WTF is this when I have read more Christian apologetics than they have? I read their tripe from C. S. Lewis et al to try to understand their position better and how they reason and yet they refuse to read such books as from Dawkins and Harris? The smarminess is repugnant.
WTF is this when I have to tell the Christian I am debating what it is their doctrinal position should be / is?
I have come to the conclusion that Christian believers generally are not concerned with the truth of their beliefs, and that they have their belief justifications completely in inverse of the actuality.
They don’t believe the Bible because they have sufficient reason to think it is true; rather, they think it is true because they believe it.
They don’t believe in Yahweh because they have sufficient reason to do so; rather, they believe in Yahweh because He makes a convenient anthropomophic cognitive template with which to interpret reality.
16 October 2007, on 8:17 pm
Read Greta Christina’s post last night. Completely and totally dead-on.
GC can definitely express her thoughts in writing. If you’ve never read her stuff, you should.
17 October 2007, on 7:48 am
Here’s a slightly different perspective; Is a doctor, in psychiatric hospital, angry that his patients are Jeebus, Jim Morrison, or the Queen of England and he’s not?
17 October 2007, on 9:43 am
Point of fact: the Texas Constitution requires a religious test before one can hold public office in the state. From Article 1, Section 4 of the Texas Constitution: “No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.” (emphasis mine)
When I read the U.S. Constitution, I find no exception to its prohibition of religious tests such as the one found in the Texas Constitution. While I am not going to be running for any sort of public office any time soon, I would dearly love to see this provision challenged in federal court.
17 October 2007, on 11:01 am
Other general things can also be relevant, i.e., where you live, what kind of people have economic power over you (promotions, jobs), and so on. There’s also the other interesting variable of having kids and having to deal with other kids and other parents because of them (especially around specific holidays).
Given your unique situation, one might guess that people haven’t (locally) made decisions that affected your life (or the life of your kid) based on your unbelief.
(I’m not saying any of this is true, by the way; I’m just making inferences based on what you’ve written here.)
Also, it should be noted that anger is not mutually exclusive with optimism. I’m not generally pessimistic about the future (although, with this administration, I do have my moments). But having an optimistic outlook isn’t mutually exclusive with getting pissed off at either specific events, or at a series of them based on your lifestyle experiences with discrimination.
The post simply addresses (and, in my view, dismisses) the inquiry of theists who wonder why atheists might be angry at all, i.e., how anyone could possibly be angry in this Great Nation of Ours.
17 October 2007, on 11:03 pm
The fucked up thing is, Bob, that what the godbothered refer to as our “anger” is more often just the sheer audacity of our daring to disagree with them. They’re like playground bullies who pee their pants the moment the tables are turned.
From this delusion, on their part, arises the whole brouhaha over so-called “militant” atheists- a phrase I rank right up there with the power structure labeling a member of an oppressed class that doesn’t “know” their place on the food chain as “uppity”. People that call those vocal amongst us “militant” probably also harrumph! a lot and fart in C♯6 …
23 October 2007, on 7:24 pm
Great post, Bob! Like RDZ says, sometimes we atheists get described as “angry” even when we’re not - just because we say or do something that True Believers (TM) find threatening.
27 October 2007, on 7:22 pm
Actually, atheists still can’t hold office in TN.