Martin Sheen burns a hypo-christian
24 January 2008 by StardustThanks to ChuckA for this one! This YouTube clip from an episode of West Wing was sent to him via an email from a member of Illinois Atheists. Chuck writes “The actual letter to Dr. Laura, featuring the insane stuff from Leviticus (Levisciousness?) that supposedly ‘inspired’ the scene…it’s claimed…is in the subsequent IL Atheist email (below).”
Here is the text of the real letter here:
Dear Dr. Laura,
Thank you so much for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s
Law. I have learned a great deal from your show and I try to share
that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to
defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him
that Leviticus 18: 22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of
debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of
the specific laws and how to best follow them.A) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates
a pleasing odor for the Lord (Leviticus 1: 9). The problem is my
neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I
smite them?B) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
Exodus 21: 7. In this day & age, what would be a fair market price
for her?C) I know I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15: 19-24). The problem is how
do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.D) Leviticus 25: 44 states that I may own slaves, both male & female,
provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of
mine claims this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you
clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?E) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
35: 2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally
obligated to kill him myself?F) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality. I don’t agree, can you settle this?G) Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if
I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading
glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20 or is there some wiggle room
here?H) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by
Leviticus 19:27. How should they die?I) I know from Leviticus 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig
makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?J) My uncle has a farm. He violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting two
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of
two different kinds of thread (cotton & polyester blend). He tends to
curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all
the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.
24: 10-16). Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family
affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:
14)?I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident
you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is
eternal and unchanging.”
I’m going to keep this one handy in case any fundies I know or happen to run across bring up the Leviticus bullshit as a reason to discriminate against gays.
24 January 2008, on 1:38 pm
That’s some great stuff, from a show that is truly missed!
I suppose it’s too much to ask that we elect a president who will stand up to the real-life “ignorant tight-ass club” members with the same erudite forcefulness…
24 January 2008, on 2:39 pm
This is why the bible is like the swiss army knife of debate. If you look through it hard enough, you can always find a quote that’ll justfy anything – good, bad or indifferent. I echo Cognitive Dissident’s feelings here. Our politicians are far too busy kissing the overfed asses of right wing religious nutjobs.
24 January 2008, on 2:55 pm
Too bad presidents are never as great in real life as they are on television.
24 January 2008, on 2:58 pm
Of course, in the real world, no president would do that because 1) no president – including our current candidates – are that educated about the Bible and 2) no president – including our current candidates – would stand up to a religious fundie like that.
24 January 2008, on 3:14 pm
What do you want? People who don’t respond to logic are easier to manipulate. Politicians succeed through manipulating public opinion. The fundies will therefore ever have the ear of those who seek election or reelection.
24 January 2008, on 3:24 pm
Robert, i echo your sentiments. They are sadly correct. This clip is a subtle reminder of how adept Hollywood is at producing our deepest fantasies (like a rational President.)
The story behind the famous (or infamous, depending on whom you ask) “Dr. Laura” letter is an interesting one, and can be read here:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/drlaura.asp
The letter’s popularity and its effect has been so scathing to the Christian populus in this country that I’ve actually seen Leviticus quotes decrease. I no longer hear such quoting from evangelicals in my discussion with them, and I’m hearing a whole new bunch of arguments cropping up that attempt to explain the nature of the Pharisee Law, and why some of it can apply to us but some cannot.
Ah.. the ever-changing christian faith. It’s such an anomaly, isn’t it? On the one hand, its tenants, theology and teachings are gawd’s word and cannot be changed… on the other hand, it is perpetually being altered to suit the march of progress and rational awareness.
And then after it’s been altered a bit, there’s a reformation and they all try and go back to the roots. And then it all starts over again.
Party.
-paz
24 January 2008, on 5:54 pm
That is the greatest two minutes EVER!
I brought up some of the stuff in there in an argument thread once and one of the responses I got was that I should be banned for it.
This was on a superhero oriented website in the general discussion area.
24 January 2008, on 6:03 pm
AUM, you mean they thought you should be banned for bringing up examples from Leviticus?
24 January 2008, on 6:10 pm
Yes. That was exactly what they said. I should be banned from the site for asking questions like that. I also threw in the women should not have power over a man thing too.
Yet not once did any of the atheists on the site ever say a christian should be banned. Seems to be a common theme doesn’t it?
24 January 2008, on 6:29 pm
It’s typical for xians to want to run away when “cornered” with no good answers.
25 January 2008, on 1:28 am
Thank you for pointing me to that interesting piece, Zachos. Its incredible how many great anonymous essays are circulated through the internet.
25 January 2008, on 3:05 am
Great clip. Unfortunately, anyone that intelligent would most likely get laughed off the national political stage. Ya gots ta dum down to tha commun folks if you wants ta be presdunt.
25 January 2008, on 11:17 am
The West Wing live national debate between actors Alan Alda and Jimmy Smits was pretty cool, too, as something you’d never get from real politics.
25 January 2008, on 11:27 am
Here is the link to that debate stooge is referring to in comment #13.
West Wing Live Debate Santos vs. Vinick
and
West Wing Live Debate Santos vs. Vinick on Health Care
26 January 2008, on 12:52 am
Totally OT…’My apologies’ to Stardust…?
“A little something…completely different…to start off another weekend?”…
A little tidbit I got, from another Chicago bandleader I worked with in the ’90s…
For anyone old enough to remember Count Basie’s GREAT Jazz band; check out an appearance on the old Ed Sullivan show. Talk about some high energy Big Band ‘Swing!…?:
“Count Basie”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov_vEkXZLlI
29 January 2008, on 11:29 am
also nice.
30 January 2008, on 8:14 am
That video… was wonderful.
Personally, I’ve always loved the shellfish bit. Shuts most fundies up really fast.
31 January 2008, on 10:55 pm
Finding that letter online was a key event in my movement from Christianity to atheism. It warms my godless heart to see it still making the rounds.
4 February 2008, on 4:29 pm
There are some pretty funny passages in Deutoronomy as well which do not line up with our conventional legislated morality.
When thou go forth to war against thine enemies, and thou hast taken them captive, And among the captives is a beautiful woman, and thou hast a desire unto her. Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and cut her nails
Deuteronomy 21:10 -21:12
The course of divine wisdom when taking the wife or daughter of a slain enemy and forcibly confining her in your home before raping her. You wouldn’t want her to commit suicide by hanging herself with long hair or slashing her wrists with long nails.
When two men are fighting and the wife of one intervenes to deliver her husband from the hand of the man that smites him, and taketh him by the groin: Then thou shalt cut off her hand, and thou shall show her no pity.
Deuteronomy 25:11-25:12
I guess no man(including Moses) likes to be seized by the gonads when he is busy beating the crap out of his neighbor. I almost wish that this situation would happen to so I could be the instrument of the divine word of the God of Abraham though dismemberment.
Praise be to logic!
7 February 2008, on 3:30 pm
That does it.
Martin Sheen for president. Or, at least, the writer who came up with that scene.