Fun With Kids
27 January 2008 by Bob
This one comes from Possummomma (with a tip to Pharyngula). This, for those of you who are ignorant, is called a science experiment:
Question: Do unchristians make less moral choices than Christians?Hypothesis: The Bible is the perfect guide to life that shows us how to be moral people. Without believing in the Bible you can’t know God and he can’t guide you and give you rewards for being a good person. I think people who aren’t Christian will be less successful.
Experiment: I will interview thirty people and ask them if they are Christian. I will give them the same questions so I have a control sample. I think they are immoral if they score lower than 15.
[Some of My Favorite Questions:]
2. Have you ever killed another human being?
9. Do you listen to rap or heavy metal music?
11. Have you ever read Harry Potter or Spiderwick Chronicles or the Golden Compass?
16. Do you take pride in accomplishments other than service to God?
And here’s the funny part:
I will say, though, that the student admitted being surprised by the answers. His hypothesis stated that he believed non-Christians would be sinners more than Christians. But, his “data” showed that no one passed as a moral person.
It was also mentioned that this kid didn’t keep the answers private.
I mean, kids are cute, no question — but xian kids are just a hoot!
Praise Be! Glory!
27 January 2008, on 12:59 pm
I wonder what kind of grade the kid got on it. I’d have given him a big fat F.
27 January 2008, on 1:28 pm
I agree with Possummomma and Sarah (first comment)
It is NOT A SCIENCE PROJECT, it’s EVANGELICAL BRAINWASHING SUNDAY SCHOOL CRAPOLA, and he gets a big fat F.
27 January 2008, on 5:31 pm
Its disturbing that anyone would allow this wretched bullshit to stand as *valid*, even for a brainwashed 6th grade xian nutjob
27 January 2008, on 6:36 pm
In a nutshell:
Hypothesis: “I will ask 30 people whether or not they are christians, and if they say no, they are immoral.”
“But, his “data” showed that no one passed as a moral person.”
And the walls came tumbling down for one little brainwashed child, and one more tiny dent was made in his armor of righteous bullsh*t. And one day, Johnny started asking questions about his faith, and soon came to realize that every dumb@$$ adult in his life had deliberately misled and lied to him about everything he ever believed, and he left home and joined a science program at college and never looked back. The End.
27 January 2008, on 7:22 pm
I like how manslaughter/murder is graded the same as reading Harry Potter.
27 January 2008, on 10:35 pm
Are there any questions about self-abuse on that there survey? Or any questions about whether some ministers really getting down with their gay hustler parishoners is sinful?
28 January 2008, on 10:46 am
The overweight question was a stupid-ass question because there are many, many overweight xian fundies. So, what the fuck does that prove?
And I love this one…
Kid asks: “12. Do you see movies with unwholesome content?”
and Possumomma’s aside comment: “(Yeah…Jesus Camp.)”
28 January 2008, on 10:55 am
@ Cat- I was thinking somewhat the same thing. Since I’m sure that he asked a few “known” xians the questions, he’s put in a bad position.
Even though he tacked on the accepted “we’re all sinners” solution, he must be wondering…
1.Why did none of the allegedly righteous pass the test?
2. Is the basis of the test flawed?
And maybe, just maybe…
3. Is the bible flawed?
We can hope, right?
28 January 2008, on 1:05 pm
Did any of you guys notice that six of the questions are directly associated with Christianity? Since the kid declares anything below a fifteen a “failure”, the test is effectively rigged so that ONLY Christians could pass.
That kind of defeats the purpose of the experiment, doesn’t it?
28 January 2008, on 5:52 pm
One could argue that this kid is only a sixth grader, so what do we expect? Fine, but this is a prime time to instruct this kid on the difference between a true scientific study and…his “science” project.
And honestly, if it weren’t for the poisoning effect of religion, we SHOULD expect more of a 12 year old.
Possum stated that this was given to her by a friend who was a teacher, who evidently did not know much about the scientific process and therefore asked for possum’s assistance. What was she doing assigning a project such as this? And how can a teacher have such a poor working knowledge/understanding of the scientific process? I graduated from undergrad with a degree in the VERY soft science of psychology, and still, I came out with what I consider to be a better than average understanding of the scientific process–and I don’t teach children or assign science projects.
All this said, I was much like this kid at the age of 12, and quite likely would have come up with the same kind of drivel he/she did, if asked to conduct a “science” project.
And you’re all gonna hate me for this, but in regards to the question on overeating, what if you are nearly underweight, in spite of overeating? Does this mean my pact with Satan to stay thin makes me immoral by this kid’s standards?
28 January 2008, on 6:14 pm
What was she doing assigning a project such as this? And how can a teacher have such a poor working knowledge/understanding of the scientific process?
When I was going to school for my B.A and M.A. at a local university, I saw first-hand how some of these people end up being teachers. It pissed me off that people who did less quality of work than I did got automatic As and Bs even when they suck at speaking and grammar, and have very little knowledge of science and math. These people slide easily on through to somehow get their teaching certificates. Then unsuspecting children are at their mercy.
28 January 2008, on 6:50 pm
Robert Hamer: I like how manslaughter/murder is graded the same as reading Harry Potter.
Beecoz Harry Potter iz of teh Debbil!!!11!
Hopefully, as others have already mentioned, this little exercise will have at least planted the seed of doubt in Johnny Xian’s brain - not that it’s in any way, shape, or form a scientific exercise–!
28 January 2008, on 9:20 pm
I am a public schoolteacher and can only GASP at the aforementioned colleague’s poor judgement. ALL projects must be approved. Kids need help in defining a topic, narrowing a topic, presenting a bibliography, understanding a grading rubric, citing authoritative sources, etc. NO TEACHER in their right mind would have approved such a crappy “experiment”. Frankly, I am very suspect of possumomma’s account.
28 January 2008, on 10:49 pm
Frankly, I am very suspect of possumomma’s account.
After putting three kids through the public school system (till we let them escape to a combination of community college/homeschooling for high school), nothing surprises me. We ran across far too many teachers who have no business teaching. And we live in an upper-middle class suburb of Chicago. If inner city schools and many rural schools are hurting for good teachers, I can just imagine what those poor children have to endure while their educations suffer, especially in the Babble Belt.
NO TEACHER in their right mind would have approved such a crappy “experiment
“In their right mind” are the key words here. Some teachers aren’t. We had a “preacher teacher” who was a real pain in the ass to get rid of, but finally the community accomplished getting him fired. So yes Barbiebrains, while you might be a very good and intelligent teacher, there are teachers who do more harm than good to many childrens’ lives, sad to say.
29 January 2008, on 9:57 pm
Barbie said:
“NO TEACHER in their right mind would have approved such a crappy “experiment”. Frankly, I am very suspect of possumomma’s account.”
I just discovered that Possummomma is from the central valley of California. I retract my earlier statement of surprise that this teacher could know so little about science. I would beseech you also, Barbie, to give Possum the benefit of the doubt regarding the veracity of her account. CA has one of the lowest National student per year expenditures in their public schools (almost $1000/year less than my home state of Nebraska). Combine that with the fact that she lives in the Bible belt of CA (it is arguable more evangelical here than my hometown of Lincoln, and far more so than Kansas City MO, if you can believe that) this anecdote becomes more and more conceivable.
Since the teacher was a Christisite, per Possum’s post, it would not surprise me if the kid got a reasonably passing grade for this academic pearl.
30 January 2008, on 8:18 am
Just a purely anecdotal comment: When I was in Elementary school we had a teacher that would not allow students to wear the color red in her classroom. It was the color of the devil, according to her. She would send children home if they did. The school did nothing. This is in Brooklyn, NY in the early 1960s. Anything is possible.
30 January 2008, on 11:14 am
So ….. let me get this straight ….. If I ever listened to “heavy metal” music, I would score just as badly as if I have murdered someone?
Actually, it’s not tremendously unscientific. It’s half-right ….. it’s just the other half that’s the problem.
(1) Study is not properly controlled; should involve similar-sized groups of christians and others.
(2) Questions are not properly weighted (nobody seriously thinks that being quick to anger is comparable to murder ….. do they?)
(3) Results need to be anonymised, otherwise people will write down the answers they think people want them to give. (Hypothesis: kid simply did not think of this due to general diminishing privacy in the world today.) (Side note: Moderate christians in Northern Europe tend to misrepresent themselves as atheist / agnostic because they think this is more acceptable.)
(4) Interpretation of final results is fallacious a big steaming heap of toss. “Nobody who took the test was moral enough, and christians did not score more highly than anyone else, but we should all be christians anyway because christians are more moral than anyone else”.
30 January 2008, on 5:24 pm
Rich: Just a purely anecdotal comment: When I was in Elementary school we had a teacher that would not allow students to wear the color red in her classroom. It was the color of the devil, according to her.
Wow, you learn something new every day; I thought black was the color of the devil…
31 January 2008, on 8:43 pm
ok. just because people CHOOSE to read peices of FICTION, does not make them moral or immoral. God goes by many names. He does not care by which name you call Him, just that you understand his being and live a good life. Music is an expression of the soul. Just because someone else does not prefer to listen to something slow and soft, but to something rhythmic and tempermental does not make them evil. I hope you got an F on this project and open your mind and explore and not let some “evangelical” nonsense close you off to the awesomeness this world has to offer.
1 February 2008, on 10:11 am
Back in high school, my cousin wore nothing but black. Everyone would call him a Satanist. He was like, “I don’t believe in God or Satan, so how am I a Satanist?”. Totally irrelevant, but kinda amusing, I think.