What a Friend We Have in Barack?
28 February 2008 by Karen
Is Barack Obama running for president or Gawd? Or is he running for president as Gawd? His stumping speeches have the air of sermons in hot tent revivals, with throngs of people pressing close to try to get a touch of the candidate’s hand or a glimpse into his eyes. A young boy is passed, mosh-pit style, to within the healing reach of the new messiah. So many women have been given over to fainting in his presence that he has had to requisition a squad of EMTs at each event to tend to the swooners.
Oprah, in her endorsement of the candidate, said that she thinks he is “the One”. One what? Rearrange the letters and you get “Neo”. Swallow the red pill, Oprah.
From here,
At the campaign’s “Camp Obama” - a training programme run ahead of primaries in key states - volunteers are schooled to avoid talking to voters about policy, and instead tell of how they “came” to Obama, just as born-again Christians talk about “coming to Jesus.”
From a site which is an admitted parody site, but uses real quotes and real photographs, for the most part*, we get this:
“It’s almost like the Messiah, you know?” said Young, a woman who said she originally backed Clinton but was drawn to Obama over the last year. “People really, really want change, and you feel it. You don’t just hear it — you feel something coming from him.”
* a few may have had special effects photo-shopped in. There’s even a shot of St. Obama blowing his nose. No kidding. And so much gushing testimony it makes me wonder if all these voters check their brains at the door:
A big black vehicle came past, escorted front and back by mounted police to hold the crowds away. People rushed forward screaming hysterically. Police edged them back and the vehicle moved slowly forward.
I asked a woman, “Who was that?” She’d been one of those who pushed herself up toward the SUV. She turned to me as if I were out of my mind, “It was HIM!” she yelled. “But,” I questioned, “how do you know? All the windows were darkened.” She replied, “I felt it.”
And now, Oh MY! The IRS is investigating Obama’s speech and his church! See here:
In a letter the denomination received Monday, the IRS said “reasonable belief exists” that the circumstances surrounding the speech violated restrictions on political activity for tax-exempt organizations. The denomination has denied any wrongdoing.
But wait, Gawd is above the law, and can speak about whatever he wants, wherever he wants, right?
It’s a feel-good, unification campaign. Hope brings people in the doors and puts money in the collection plate, er, campaign tiller. If Obama wins the Democratic nomination and subsequently, the election, will he be sworn in on the Bible, or on Himself? Instead of singing the National Anthem, will we all hold hands and sing Kumbaya? And what will happen when the people find out Barack is only a mortal and can’t deliver on his promises, just like someone else we’ve heard of?
28 February 2008, on 12:55 pm
Welcome Karen! Glad to have you aboard as our newest contributor and mod.
I am so sick of this Obamania that I can’t even look at television anymore. People voting for him don’t even have a clue about what he stands for and act like he is going to perform some kind of miracles, like something is going to magically change in our government because their savior has come. His church pastor follows him around on the campaign trail. When the republicans do this, liberals have a cow, but somehow it’s being overlooked with Obama.
When asked where Obama stands on the issues, most people who are supporting him can’t say…they don’t know. They say he “has vision” or will “bring change” and when asked WHAT change, what is he going to do, they can’t answer and change the subject or go on swooning over him. It’s more like one of these contest shows like Top Model than an election.
And what will happen if he is elected? Will his faithful flocks still remain loyal when they find out he is just a mere mortal smooth-talking politician like all the rest?
28 February 2008, on 1:02 pm
And I love this quote, karen,
“If Obama wins the Democratic nomination and subsequently, the election, will he be sworn in on the Bible, or on Himself?”
28 February 2008, on 1:44 pm
Thanks for the welcome Stardust!
I see that my first link brings up a “site not found” message, but the article IS still available. Don’t know why it’s doing that. Here’s the url if anyone wants to check it out:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/23/wUS123.xml
I agree with you on Obama, obviously, but I will vote for him if he gets the Democratic nod. My primary isn’t till May, so Clinton may not even be in the running by then, if she doesn’t carry Ohio and Texas.
It’s one thing to be swayed by a smooth-talking politician, but the mass hysteria invoked by Obama is just baffling to me. He’s a very different speaker in the debates, and his policies don’t differ from Clinton’s all that much. But if he gains the White House, he’s set himself up for some big disappointments to have to explain to those voters who believe he’s going to be able to change things right away.
28 February 2008, on 1:58 pm
karen, the link is fixed. I fixed it once before, too. I don’t know why it’s being so stubborn and keeps changing. grrrr!
Back to the discussion. I hate having to vote for someone because I feel I have no other choice.
I voted for Hillary in the primary in Illinois. Things seem bleak for her now, it will take a “miracle”
28 February 2008, on 2:51 pm
I keep hearing alot of neo-cons in my area talk about Obama’s Muslim influences, and they all think he’s going to hand us over to the terrorists if he gets elected. These are the same people who have endorsed McCain because he’s the last republican standing who can’t be confused for the fucking anti-christ. Its scary to hear what’s on people’s minds when they see someone like Obama in pictures wearing a turban…
28 February 2008, on 3:17 pm
It’s a campaign, y’all. It’s artificial. You really think McCain likes bending over for demented fuckwits like John “Immanentize the Eschaton” Hagee? Do you really equate Obama’s version of the xian faith with (Fuck)Huck’s? Shit, I’ve been tired of the primaries since they started- it seems- at the end of the last election, but it’s got to happen. Confirmed liberals/secularists like us- I’m assuming most of us are anyway, do not need to be sold. There’s very little that could make us even consider a tick in the GOP box. Obama has to play to moderates, the small but growing groups of socially progressive xians- see Campolo, Jim Wallis, C. Welton Gaddy, etc., and those who haven’t previously got off their idiot- keeping in mind the etymology of the word “idiot”, asses and engaged in the political arena. Are all the adulation and them womenfolk getting the vapors tiresome and ridiculous? No question. Is it warranted? Yes and no. Not to the degree, certainly, but Barack has the “it” factor that no politician since John or Bobby Kennedy has had(yeah, you might say Reagan had it for the other side of the aisle but that kind of “it” is just creepy). I mean Bill Clinton had charisma to spare- an approval rating in the high sixties/low seventies even as the GOP was trying to lynch him, but even he can’t touch this tidal wave. And Hilary? Next to Obama, she looks like a crusty, paleolithic political hack- which she only partially is ;). She looks bad next to Bill but abysmal next to Obama.
Consider that one of the main reasons GWB got put in office- if not actually elected, was that folks(the same middling folks mentioned above, the readers of People and US magazine, the watchers of Oprah and Entertainment Tonight, of American Idol and the Oscars, those who in some way shape or form actually attach some abstract value to celebrity, aspiring members of a cult of personality) thought they’d rather have a beer with him over Gore- and probably Kerry as well.
Like it or not, politics in the 24/7 visual media age is a fucking beauty contest. But so long as the candidate in question doesn’t buy into the hype himself- and judging Obama by his words and with the knowledge that his wife, Michelle, would knock him down a peg if he got too full of himself, I’ll just appreciate that this irrational groundswell is working in our favor- and continue switching channels when the commercials come up.
Wilkommen, Bienvenue, Karen, welcome!
28 February 2008, on 3:26 pm
Let me just add for those who keep saying that Obama is vague on the issues; he’s pro-choice, pro-reasonable gun control, against NAFTA, for universal healthcare, for protecting the environment, against the war in Iraq, for investing in science and math education both for weaning us off fossil fuels and to keep America’s technical edge, for civil unions(he’s not perfect), for the separation of church and state, for the individual over the corporation, for ending the lobbyists influence in Washington. I mean, what else do you want to know? He’s for repealing the Bush taxcuts- except for those of lower incomes. He’s for diplomacy over military aggression, for nurturing our strategic alliances and ending our support of corrupt and brutal regimes in the quest for oil. Anything I forgot.
Did I mention I’m volunteering and I haven’t been told what not to say about the Senator- not that I’d listen anyway.
28 February 2008, on 4:55 pm
There are several youtubes on Camp Obama.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=camp+obama&search_type=
Not much substance as far as I can tell. It reminds me of “Camp Grenada”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOuNb8ngplw
28 February 2008, on 5:39 pm
Everyone’s love affair with Obama is also really starting to concern me. It feels like no one really wants to look at him realistically. He is a politician, after all. And all politicians are excellently schooled in the art of bullshitting.
My biggest fear is that, after getting elected, he’ll be a do-nothing President. Everyone’s delusions of him and his grand scheme to change everything will be abruptly shattered. Then we’ll all hate his guts.
Either way, I’ll vote for him over McCain any day.
28 February 2008, on 6:53 pm
“My biggest fear is that, after getting elected, he’ll be a do-nothing President. Everyone’s delusions of him and his grand scheme to change everything will be abruptly shattered. Then we’ll all hate his guts”
Sarah, that’s my prediction. Everyone who has such hopes in this guy are going to be greatly disappointed.
And that is what I understood Karen to mean…that everyone is putting such hopes and “faith” in Obama when he is no different than any other Dem except for his “charisma”. The black people I have talked to don’t seem to know even the things about Obama that Raindog summarized above. My son asked some of his black co-workers why they were supporting Obama and they said “because he has vision” and “he is for change”…when my son pressed them to elaborate, they didn’t know anything about what Obama stands for. And some didn’t even know he is a senator from Illinois!
28 February 2008, on 7:15 pm
RDZ
Sorry if I touched a nerve. I was aiming at the craze that is Obamamania, not the man himself, really. What you outlined as his platform is basically what I understand it to be, from listening to him in debates and from visiting his website. (And it’s still, not far flung from Hillary’s platform.)But you get none of that information from his campaign speeches, and that’s where people are forming their opinions. It’s true, he has that even-more-than-Kennedy charisma, but why base a vote on that? I know YOU don’t, but look at all the people who have. It’s frightening to think of the possibilities. Imagine if Huckabee had possessed that type of charm and speaking ability?
Obama has possibility, if he chooses wisely with his cabinet and staff. But the folks who BELIEVEin him, the ones who can’t recall a word he said, and don’t know what the hell he stands for, but he makes them feel good and he’s gonna make this country “all better” –they’re in for a rude awakening when he sits behind that desk and there’s no magic. That’s all I’m saying.
28 February 2008, on 8:26 pm
Karen,
In a perfect world, of course you don’t just base your vote on some irrelevant quality like starpower but, well, we don’t live in one. You can bet your ass if this were Huckabee- or some other godbotherer, I wouldn’t be so cavalier about it. My point was, mainly, that this time the hero happens to play for our team and taking advantage of it is our patriotic duty
And, sure, the true believers will be disappointed by the reality of an Obama presidency. But those that base their beliefs on hot air generally are. There may be some in his camp who’ve swallowed the Oprah/The Secret, visualize-your-desires-into-fruition Kool-aid and expect that horse their beggared souls wish for but at least they’ve fixated on a savior who at the very least seems to be well-intentioned. Of course, it’s silly but should we really be surprised by the depths of our countrymen’s stupidity?
The christocrats that boosted Bush- like shit piled yay high, were plenty disappointed with him. Of course, so was everyone else but for the John Birch society leftovers. As for what the future holds- or what an Obama presidency will hold, a lot of it depends on whether we can win a little breathing room in what’s barely a Dem majority in the House.
One other thing; I think what we’ve been seeing from the candidates thus far has been deliberately lacking in substance. I mean, it’s a primary. All the crowds that gather for these speeches are essentially like-minded on the major issues. You’re right, there is very little to differentiate between Obama and Clinton, in so far as their positions on those issues. More than the general election, the primaries are a beauty pageant- or a dog show. You’ve got one candidate who is, despite her rather clumsy attempts to paint it otherwise, a creature of the Washington political system. And that isn’t only a negative assessment. There are ways that the wheeling and dealing gets done in the corridors of power that she knows inside out and that could be a valuable commodity. Conversely, she’s beholden to the status quo, in terms of lobbying and the inordinate corporate imprint on our legislation as it stands. Obama is a creature of the civil rights movement, a showman on the stump but with, perhaps, a naivete- or inexperience, about accomplishing things in DC. Those are the two qualities we’re really voting on in the primary, the issues are kind of a given. The substance will come when the enemy is McCain and not each other.
28 February 2008, on 9:06 pm
“Sarah, that’s my prediction. Everyone who has such hopes in this guy are going to be greatly disappointed.”
Thanks, Stardust. Glad to know that I’m not the only one thinking this. I was starting to feel like I was insane.
Obama still has me a bit confused, though. When I hear him speak, I’m torn between my very American cynicism that he is just another bullshit politician who seems different because he happens to be black, and the belief that maybe it does just take one good guy to step up and change things forever.
With Hillary and (gawd forbid!) McCain, we at least know what to expect. With Obama, it seems a bit uncertain what we’re getting into. And that is both scary and exhilarating at the same time.
28 February 2008, on 9:11 pm
Most blacks are voting for Obama because he’s black, and most white liberals, especially white liberal females, are voting for Obama because it will give them the ultimate warm fuzzy to elect a black President, no matter what he stands for or whether or not he’s the better candidate. It’s that simple. Why can’t anyone just come out and say it? Because race can’t be honestly discussed in this country (certainly not by courageous atheist freethinkers!), just another indication that freedom in America is a farce.
I believe that this election is significant for reasons other than what most people would claim. What we are witnessing with this election is the unraveling of the two party system. The Democrats are degenerating into a feel-good cult based on the worship of minorities, and the Republicans are casting off any pretense that they are motivated by rational thinking by selecting a certifiable madman as their candidate. Could be the herald of total disaster, or a long overdue, radical reformation of the political-economic system, but the times are going to get very interesting, in the ancient Chinese curse definition of the word “interesting”.
28 February 2008, on 9:50 pm
RDZ
Maybe not surprised, but certainly disappointed at how enormously widespread it appears to be. I guess that’s telling of my own naive cock-eyed optimism?
Your assessments of the pros and cons of the two candidates is spot on as far as I’m concerned. But I would rather have Hillary’s experience than Obama cutting his teeth in the Oval office. Other politicians and world leaders aren’t going to succumb to his charm.
What pisses me off is that I may not even have a say in it if Clinton doesn’t do well in the next round of primaries. But I will definitely say NO to McCain, and look forward to something of substance from whomever challenges him.
28 February 2008, on 10:06 pm
“But I will definitely say NO to McCain, and look forward to something of substance from whomever challenges him.”
I will also say no to McCain (Bush part III).
Is Nader jumping into the race going to fuck things up again?
28 February 2008, on 10:25 pm
I think the lack of executive experience is not as bad as it sounds. What will make or break a President Obama is not his personal charm or naivete, but who he chooses to surround himself with. I think the stellar way he is running his campaign, in terms of effectiveness, speaks volumes to this. The man has a great campaign team and there’s no reason to think he won’t choose a great presidential cabinet.
His choice of running mate will also be important. I think Clinton would be a fine choice, though I would rather see Edwards there.
28 February 2008, on 10:27 pm
Stardust, Nader is a has been. I seriously doubt he can be a spoiler for the Democratic Party this go-round.
28 February 2008, on 10:46 pm
To bring this back to the topic, I thought what Austin Cline over at About.com had to say is interesting and spot on. Barbara’s on this IRS investigation over at the Mahablog is also interesting. Why all the interest now and not earlier when he wasn’t seen as a threat?
28 February 2008, on 10:49 pm
Crap. Not only did I forget to close my link, it was the wrong URL anyway. My bad.
Here’s the correct link to the Mahablog’s entry. The other link it to David Neiwert’s Orcinus blog. Think what you like of him, but he is thought provoking to say the least.
28 February 2008, on 10:52 pm
Alright, Obama supporter here. Love the site and would like to remind people that he is the only politician who actually addresses nonbelievers when he discusses religion. Otherwise, for those of you who are actually willing to read about him, here’s a great link. Thanks, Cay
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/20/201332/807/36/458633
28 February 2008, on 11:20 pm
Thanks for the links, Bernarda, Bruce and Cay.
29 February 2008, on 12:06 am
Excellent job on your first post, Karen.
Thanks for highlighting exactly what’s pretty much been ‘low-keyed’ by the main stream media…at least the TV/Cable variety.
Lots of informative comments as well. Thanks to all for the “Eyes wide Open” awareness.
And thanks, as usual, to ‘Modress’ Stardust for her expert guidance…?
Something Raindogzilla mentioned, I agree, will be hugely important, in my opinion, beyond just the Presidential aspect:
RDZ: “…a lot of it depends on whether we can win a little breathing room in what’s barely a Dem majority in the House.”
Regarding that; my concern, as I’ve more than once commented on, is…also…the future of the Supreme Court; which, I think, makes electing a Dem…WHOMEVER…Most important for all the obvious reasons…
…like Roe v. Wade!
Let’s hope it turns out to be more like a whole LOT of breathing room. Maybe then, some REAL positive changes MIGHT be in the works.
I find it interesting that Obama’s really of a mixed race blend…black/white’(white/black?)…what USED to be referred to as “colored” in other times and places. What should be, ‘Liberally’ speaking, a positive aspect, is pretty much ignored.
Is it…Skin color trumps genetic reality? Humans are really dumb when it comes to factual subtlety, I submit.
Of course…’Babblicly’ speaking…it’s the old taboo about not mixing the races. That’s almost certain to be a factor for the hardcore Fundie fuckheads. Maybe that’s why it’s played down so much…?
It IS amazingly evident (after viewing those links), just HOW delusionally creepy the religiously brainwashed sheeple types are!
[cue excited sheep prodding sounds?]
29 February 2008, on 12:11 am
FDR was starting his first term when I was born. From then until now “experienced” politicians have reduced this country to a pathetic shadow of what it once was. I would be delighted if Obama got in and did nothing but supervise the Easter Egg Hunt and play Scrabble.
29 February 2008, on 12:25 am
my concern, as I’ve more than once commented on, is…also…the future of the Supreme Court; which, I think, makes electing a Dem…WHOMEVER…Most important for all the obvious reasons…
…like Roe v. Wade!
excellent point, ChuckA
29 February 2008, on 12:29 am
I would be delighted if Obama got in and did nothing but supervise the Easter Egg Hunt and play Scrabble.
Well, let’s hope he isn’t doing that if we are attacked again or if New Orleans washes away in a hurricane again. Then he would be as much as a dumbass as Dubya.
29 February 2008, on 12:45 am
I don’t think Obama isn’t cut from the same cloth as a typical DC politician. First and foremost, he has virtually *no ties* to lobbyists or special interests. This would, by itself, disqualify most candidates from the presidency just on the basis of the cost to run a campaign. Obama and Ron Paul built a significant part of their war chests $20 at a time, individual by individual. This alone puts Obama in a different class than someone like Clinton, whom, even as a democrat, sucks at the teat of the Oil Lobby. Secondly, his campaign has been managed *perfectly*. It is both effective, and efficient. He’s taken on the Clinton Dynasty and is a mere two states away from clinching the nomination. If he is able to apply these management and organizational skills to the Presidency, I think any fears of “no experience” will be alleviated quite quickly.
I think he is worth risking my vote on.
29 February 2008, on 3:02 am
In many ways, I think Obama kind of symbolizes the America of the 21st century- or maybe that’s not quite right, maybe it’s more the America of the 21st century that could- and ought to- be. He’s a mixture of black and white, rich and poor, and he mostly keeps his religion between himself and whatever his god may be. He just seems to me to be less likely to compromise his principles over a focus group or polling numbers. He seems every bit the same person that spoke at the ‘04 convention, still untainted by the stench of Washington, whereas it clings to Hillary like the scent of death on a mortician no matter how much eau de public relations she may slather on.
It is kind of odd to think that Clinton is already part of the establishment, that that brilliant and refreshing woman who came to national attention only sixteen years ago- full of promise and idealism, is now a political hasbeen. It’s kind of sad for her, knowing that Bill probably could win another term fairly easily. And, to be honest, I thought her attitude throughout most of the primary had been one of entitlement, like how dare Edwards or Obama interfere in her rightful ascendancy. Then, when that blew up in her face, she- well, her campaign anyway, has gotten petty and downright vindictive. Apparently, the Clinton machine is at least partially fueled by starpower- it only functions properly with the Big Dog in the harness.
29 February 2008, on 3:17 am
I can’t stand Obama. and how can you be an atheist and vote for this nutjob… check out his church he regularly attends
Just a couple things about this “anti-christ” who has everyone fooled (another reason people annoy me, they are dumb!). He is Mr. Spendathon, I’ve read his website, and seen all of his plans. How will he pay for it all? Not by ending the Iraq war, because I can guarantee the US will never be out of the affairs of the Middle East… Plus, not only does he say I will end the Iraq war, but then wants to spend money disarming nuclear countries, beefing up the military, and ~killing terrorists??~ He speaks out of two mouths.
Obama is pro low life lazy scumbags, and anti prosperous, as are most liberals. People just don’t get handed money. They work hard for it, and it’s not easy to make it. And when the lazy do get handed money, say the lottery, over 90% of them blow it all anyways and end up back at work. I work hard and slave away many hours to have the things and the life I have, so can the ones that Obama wants to give free handouts to. He wants to waste money on “promise neighborhoods,” which if these people actually cared and had pride in their neighborhoods they wouldn’t look like shit. Trust me, Ive been to many parts of Chicago, and many look like garbage. People just want things for free, they don’t want to work… (hence the belief in magic genie voodoo Obama to make all their suffering and misery disappear, using other people’s tax dollars)
Obama says I will make big changes! Like what, will you rewrite history and say black men wrote the constitution and change the three branches of government to what they really are, Military, Corporate, and Hollywood? What big changes are in store? Nothing… he can’t do ANYTHING except little crap here and there, if it gets passed. If Obama was such a “uniter” then how come he failed to unite Dems and Repubs to vote against the war? Instead he just gives a speech about how it was bad… where was his magic powers then? His charm? Where is all his proposed legislature that has gotten passed? It doesn’t exist, he thrives on image and image alone… all fluff and NO tough!
Obama’s supporters are insane, lunatic and Xian like. I refuse to vote for him, even if it means McLame wins. All of the candidates this year stink, and I think I’d rather not vote at all, since Ill have the choice of the Anti-christ vs Dubya version 2.1, and that’s really pathetic.
29 February 2008, on 8:25 am
he mostly keeps his religion between himself and whatever his god may be.
I don’t think this is true. Obama does not hesitate to put his faith and religion out there and uses it to his advantage. He has stated quite clearly that his gawd guides him.
Just a few Obama quotes from his statements of faith in the past:
“t was because of these newfound understandings that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity United Church of Christ on 95th Street in the Southside of Chicago one day and affirm my Christian faith. It came about as a choice, and not an epiphany. I didn’t fall out in church. The questions I had didn’t magically disappear. But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side, I felt that I heard God’s spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth” Renewal Keynote Address
“The final thing that I think the Moses generation teaches us is to remind ourselves that we do what we do because God is with us. You know, when Moses was first called to lead people out of the Promised Land…the Lord said I will be with you. Throw down that rod. Pick it back up. I’ll show you what to do. The same thing happened with the Joshua generation.”
“Imagine Lincoln’s Second Inaugural Address without reference to “the judgments of the Lord.” Or King’s I Have a Dream speech without references to “all of God’s children.” Their summoning of a higher truth helped inspire what had seemed impossible, and move the nation to embrace a common destiny.”
Call to Renewal Keynote Address
“We should never forget that God granted us the power to reason so that we would do His work here on Earth - so that we would use science to cure disease, and heal the sick, and save lives.” – World AIDS Day Speech: Race Against Time
“Well, I say to them tonight, there’s not a liberal America and a conservative America – there’s the United States of America. There’s not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America – there’s the United States of America. The pundits like to slice-and-dice our country into Red States and Blue States; Red States for Republicans, Blue States for Democrats. But I’ve got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the Blue States, and we don’t like federal agents poking around our libraries in the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States and have gay friends in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and patriots who supported it. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.” – Democratic National Convention Keynote Address.
BUT
he does also say
“Given the increasing diversity of America’s population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.” - Call to Renewal Keynote Address
and
“Unwilling to go there, I answered with what has come to be the typically liberal response in such debates - namely, I said that we live in a pluralistic society, that I can’t impose my own religious views on another, that I was running to be the U.S. Senator of Illinois and not the Minister of Illinois.”
So, while he stands to uphold the Separation of Church and State and diversity and respect for other beliefs and non-beliefs, he still talks to his god. The fundies can’t stand that a liberal is just as religious as they are, so have made up this “secret muslim conspiracy” which is so totally wrong.
29 February 2008, on 9:50 am
I agree stardust, as usual he speaks out of two mouths. The only reason his campaign hasn’t been fundie is because his team of white advisors have strongly urged him NOT to have his crazy pastors speak at his rallies and such. But the pastors follow him around on his campaign trail, and that’s a little suspicious. His imaginary friend obviously influences his decisions, just as much as Dubya’s influences his, but perhaps even more. And that’s scary…
29 February 2008, on 11:38 am
We can just hope that gawd doesn’t tell him to invade Pakistan.
Despite whatever else I read about Obama lately, those remarks have stayed in the back of my mind.
I am really not happy with the choices we are stuck with either. Each election gets worse.
29 February 2008, on 12:56 pm
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Aliathan, Obama’s church is, gulp, Black Separatist if not extremist Muslim and he’ll undoubtedly be sworn in on a quran instead of a Bible and goddamn those poor people and their poverty nevermind the good jobs gone overseas and that you can work not one but two of the jobs left and still flirt with that poverty line and, boohoo, William F. Buckley’s Dead- sung to the tune of “Bela Lugosi’s Dead”, and Ayn Rand was nothing but a reactionary fascist shrew and, by god, I’ve got mine and living in America and all the advantages that conveys never had a thing to do with it, it was me, me, me that did it all and taxation is thievery and how dare the disabled, the infirm, the unfortunate, the victims of predatory lending, the bankrupted by uninsured medical emergencies, how dare they require assistance and me, well, I am most definitely not my brother’s keeper and fuck the least among us and dynamite that needle’s eye so I can shove my camel, my whole caravan, through that motherfucker and I Like Ike and where’s Dick Nixon when we need him and goddamn Pat Buchanan for not running again and fill the Rio Grande River with pungee sticks and piranhas…
And, Star, I really believe his faith is in the manner of works and not in hearing voices from Jeebus. Would it be better if we had an entirely secular candidate? You’re fucking aye right, it would but we aren’t there yet.
29 February 2008, on 1:31 pm
The comments for this thread took a turn I hadn’t quite expected. Which is fine, I’m glad there’s great discussion going on. I’m just wondering if maybe my choice of title threw folks off, and wanted to explain where it came from. It wasn’t a jab at Obama as a candidate, but a comment on how so many people absolutely revere him. And it’s a play on an old hymn I remembered, the first two verses go like this:
This seems to be the attitude of those who hitch their wagons to Obama’s star for emotional reasons. They want to lay their problems at his feet and have him make them magically disappear. And he is doing an excellent job of harnessing that need for security and stability as a warm, open, loving father figure. I don’t blame him for taking full advantage of his star power. I am still just amazed at the number caught up in it.
—–
Thanks, ChuckA, for the kudos. I had a lot of guidance from Star! (Thanks again, Star.) And belated thanks for the welcome from RDZ.
29 February 2008, on 3:19 pm
I really believe his faith is in the manner of works and not in hearing voices from Jeebus.
RDZ, I am not so sure about that, myself. He is very devout in his faith and faithful do believe zombie Jeebus walks and talks with them in their “personal relationship” with the great Skyboss.
It looks like he will be the Democratic nominee, and I don’t know how he is going to stand up to McCain when Republicans start pulling shit out of their asses. We will have to wait and see how things develop…or unravel. Obama isn’t as squeaky clean as everyone believes he is.
As for an entirely secular candidate — if only! But that will never happen in my lifetime.
29 February 2008, on 3:28 pm
I’m glad there’s great discussion going on.
Karen, this is indeed a great discussion for your very first post! Good topic…we all need to get this discussed and thought out.
29 February 2008, on 4:41 pm
I am not a fan of Obama, but when push comes to shove, either he or Clinton will be so much better than Alzheimer McCain, now endorsed by whacko end-times John Hagee. And McCain is happy about that. For a further post, you might want to remind people who Hagee is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjMRgT5o-Ig&feature=related
“Rapture Ready”
These guys, and presumably McCain, WANT the end of the world.
29 February 2008, on 4:44 pm
Those crazy fundies are quite creative. He’s a Muslim…he’s the antichrist!
Barack Obama the Antichrist
29 February 2008, on 6:59 pm
My goodness, the folks at one of the other forums I go to are whining about how unfair it is that Obama’s church is being investigated! Why now? Why not all the other churches that push a political agenda? I must concede that I did feel a bit singled out when I got a ticket for rolling through a stopsign, though I must also admit that I have only myself to blame. The other day, an aquantance of mine tried telling me that Obama was an athiest. Ha!
I really owe a lot to this forum, now one good moderator stronger, for encouraging me to get more engaged in the political process with a post about Obama’s religiousity awhile back. Racist and naive, I figured that a relatively young black politician would automatically be the progressive choice. Of course a little bit of research goes a long way.
I could write on Clinton and Obama’s stances on the issues for eternity, but cyberspace isnt infinite now is it… I wouldn’t want to clog the tubes of the internets!
I’d reccommend looking at the two candidates’ senate voting records side by side, which is quite tedious.
- What immediatley jumps out at you is that evidently Obama started working on his campaign earlier and thus started playing hookey earlier than Clinton. They both missed a lot of votes, but Obama missed way more overall.
- Clinton voted against a version of the 2005 energy bill that Obama voted for. It was heralded as a huge foot in the door for the nuclear energy industry. 4.3 billion in subsidies to the nuclear industry plus an extension of the price anderson act, which puts the industry’s liability on all of us taxpayers. I think the historical multi billion dollar cost overruns for reactor construction and rising costs of mining and processing uranium only strenthen the assertion that the money would be more effectivly spent elsewhere. Incidentally, the second single largest campaign contributor to Obama is Exelon - a nuclear industry giant.
-One concern some may have is Obama’s ties to anti homosexual Reverand Donnie McClurkin and his ilk.
- While each would like to paint the other as more of a warmonger, when it came to voting time their record is the same.
- To me, it seems as though the pendulum needs to swing to the left. All of this bipartisan rhetoric Obama uses sounds to me like “We’ll keep on caving in to the pushy republicans”. Considering the Governator for his cabinet and endorsing Holy Joe? Sounds to me like Obama is the type of guy who looks back at Raegan as an agent of change - oh wait, he he really does!
I think this post by Karen hit the nail right on the head, as did comment 14 by gkruz. How is someone who goes to a church that emphasizes “race” supposed to be unifying?
29 February 2008, on 7:01 pm
A choice between McLame and Obama is not a choice. Obama has until November to stop saying two things at once. He has said that we need to take the Iraq money and the tax cuts and spend them on schools, health care and infrastructure. He left out the part that those two expenditures have caused our deficits. Then in the next sentence he says it is unconscionable to leave huge deficits to our children and grandchildren. Why has not anyone called him on this? I am sure that the Republicans will, when he is the nominee. This then means, the repubs will win, we will stay in Iraq, and the wrong judges will be appointed to the Supreme court and supply side economics will prevail.
Even with that, I will not vote Obama because when he cannot deliver on his promise of change the depression of the followers will sink the economy and the Democratic party.
Nader looks good when compared to these choices. I hope that Unity08 will have a candidate. If enough people vote, but not repub or democrat the dissatisfaction will be noticed by those in charge.
We can make a difference, we can be heard but we have to make another choice.
29 February 2008, on 7:38 pm
jimmy dean, you have brought up many good points in comment #39.
A lot of those things bother me.
29 February 2008, on 8:43 pm
Karen, my love. Good first post.
In fact, w/the advent of television, politics stopped being about who was best for the job, & who appealed to the masses. The Nixon-Kennedy debate is tres revealing.
It’s a popularity contest. There’ll never be 1 politician who makes everyone happy, there’ll only be candidates who make almost everyone happy.
Personally, I’m tempted to vote for Nader - just as a protest vote.
(There’s that nasty ole propaganda: a vote for a 3rd party is a wasted vote. What utter crap. A vote’s a vote.)
1 March 2008, on 12:43 am
In honor of “Leap Year Day”…May I offer a little “flying leap”, OT kernel of personal (deranged?) brain garbage; which more and more seems to surface whilst contemplating the everyday progression of human events.
[What!...Have your Leviticus-like stones ready?]
Something that’s always popped out from the usual Founding Fathers’ ‘mantras’…generally known, and so easily repeated by the general sheeple; is that old: “All men are created equal” Shtick.
And, ‘of course’, followed up by the old cynical joke…”Some are just more equal than others!”
On the surface, atheistically and scientifically speaking, it’s, literally speaking, total bullshit!
Foist…”created” by a Sky Daddy fuck…NO!
Created by two…relatively speaking…ignorantly evolving, rather “hot to trot” future parents…Ummm…
I can accept that!
Second…EQUAL? Ummm…(wipes spectacles)…
You’ve GOT to be kidding!
Now, what’s my point? I think that sneaky little ‘mantra’ is another one of those sayings used to test our gullibility; meaning…
“if they swallow THIS bullshit whole cloth…we’ve got them by the crotch!”
[Akin to the old Jesuit saying: "Give me a child until he is seven, and I will give you the man"]
Of course the actual IDEAL intent, I surmise, was to be qualified by…(equal) “UNDER THE LAW”; which even then is rather a joke in the ACTUAL practical history of the world’s…manifestly flawed…”Jurist Prudence”.
In my skeptical and increasingly cynical atheist’s view; combining with the old (paraphrased) Nietzschean concept of: “Existence is absurd”; I offer…
“All humans are (genetically) insane…
some are just more insane than others!”…?
[Is Stardust reaching for her whistle?]
Ok., Ok…I don’t mean that in a BAD way! Or ummm…
“GifSters, of course, excluded!”…?
1 March 2008, on 12:46 am
In my Central time zone my above comment was posted about 10:45 PM on Feb. 29th!
Just to keep the record straight!
(and properly insane?)
1 March 2008, on 3:50 am
I can’t believe this is happening again! The same old mistakes people make over and over… Don’t they ever learn? Wasn’t Bush enough already?
Nick
Critical Critique
1 March 2008, on 10:19 am
Check out these articles about Obama,
Obama’s Sub-Prime Conflict
The Obama Craze: Count Me Out
Holding Barack Obama Accountable
2 March 2008, on 5:14 pm
Checked out the links, good stuff. I found the Pritzker stuff particularly chilling. Only makes me wish I lived a lil further from mob town chicago
3 March 2008, on 2:48 am
I (early-absentee) voted for Barack Obama in the Texas Primary for one basic reason–I cannot forgive Hillary’s war vote. I just can’t.
In the general election, I can’t say if I will vote for Obama again or not. May vote for Cynthia McKinney (Green party) or Nader instead.
Obama’s noxious “reasonable gun control” almost had me pulling for Edwards, my original choice, out of spite. So I guess my vote for him was more of an anti-Clinton vote than anything.
Michelle Obama did comment how she could understand how rural and suburban whites felt the need to keep arms for self defense, with police response times especially in rural areas being what they are. As a gun owner and NRA member AND Leftist social democrat, I said to myself “well, at least that’s a start, a step in the right direction to accepting an understanding of a basic, intrinsic right of self-defense…eventually she may see it’s not a right exclusive to rural or suburban whites”
Keeping RKBA (i.e. gun rights) locked into supposed “Right wing”-only issue straight-jacket has been one of the more effective “divide and conquer” strategies of the financial elites who really run the show.
I voted for Bill both times (1992, 1996) and though he was in some ways better than the 12 years of Reagan-Bush previously, he rapidly disappointed me not long after getting into office for failing to sign an executive order, a la Truman, permitting gays in the military, and gave us “don’t ask, don’t tell” instead.
“Well, that was really unpopular with the military” apologists say.
As if Truman’s integration of the Armed Forces was any less controversial–he just had the leadership qualities to prevail, while Bill Clinton’s fatal flaw was his desire to be liked by as many people as possible. A flaw Hillary does not suffer, though perhaps she’s at the other extreme.
Barack is alright…just curious to see who he taps as his Veep. I’ve heard some rumors that Bill Richardson (who is pro 2A/pro RKBA) may be tapped. I’d vote for Obama/Richards or Obama/Edwards (though I know Edwards wouldn’t go for that–has said so, in fact).
3 March 2008, on 2:02 pm
FYI, JJR, Hillary hunted growing up. And Obama has voted for war funding how many times now??? Obama admitted that he may have voted for the initial authorization.
3 March 2008, on 7:28 pm
I heard last night that Obama said that he “talks to Jesus every night.”
What I’d love to ask him is if Jesus ever answers back. Cause if Obama thinks he does, we’re all screwed!!!
4 March 2008, on 12:51 am
^^Sarah, I saw that too about Obama saying he talks to Jeebus every night. I was like WTF? I think it is more than political pandering with him. He really is a bleeever. I am so sick of this god shit in politics. It gets worse every election and sadly spilled over to the liberal side. yuck.
4 March 2008, on 1:43 am
Stardust:
There isn’t really a “liberal” side anymore. There are two sides, “facist” and “facist lite”. I’ll take “facist lite”, because it tastes great but it’s less filling.
5 March 2008, on 4:53 am
i wonder what Obama is saying to jesus tonight, after his losses in some big states.
5 March 2008, on 10:48 am
jimmy dean,
I also wonder if Huckabee is asking “why me Lawd” with having to drop out after all this time saying that Gawd told him to run?
5 March 2008, on 2:59 pm
Howdy, Karen; bienvenida!
Great discussion, everyone; you always give me good points to ponder and stuff that hasn’t occurred to me before.
I must admit that what Karen’s post points out, this hero worship of Obama, also bothers me. I think, though, along the lines of what RDZ has said, that although we wish it were otherwise, humanity as a whole (or Americans, any way) has not yet grown out of its need for a hero / idol / messiah / savior to come along in a blaze of glory, decimate its enemies with a single swipe of his mighty sword, sweep it off its feet, and gallop away with it into a sunset of happy-ever-after in Never-Never-Land. This doesn’t seem particularly xian to me, as we see this concept / idea / myth pop up in our history and belief systems over and over again across the globe.
Karen, I suspect you’ve simply revealed the tip of an iceberg!
5 March 2008, on 2:59 pm
Then again, Stardust…hard-core believers are such Sado-Masochists! I can easily imagine Huck bending over and beseeching the Lawd to spank his arse…? Something like:
[Huck]: “Oooooh…YES Lawd!…now the right cheek…only harder!…I’ve been such a baaaad boy!…Hey, wait a minute!…(looks around)…
HUH?…WTF are you doing here, Chuck Norris?…So it was YOU whacking my ass…and how the fuck did you get a hold of my personal paddle? It was locked away in my secret S&M equipment cabinet…with all my whips, chains, leather straight jackets, women’s underwear, bass guitars, and rubber suits…in fact…right next to the display case containing my special, deluxe, Billy Graham autographed babble!”
[Norris...with his usual, big, shit eating grin]: “Hey, old buddy…we’ve gotten SO close lately; and I AM a pretty good pick-pocket, if you didn’t know. Just trying to be useful, I guess. After this bit of delightful fun…I’m outa here! Now that you’re definitely outa the power lusting race, I gotta get back to selling my way-overpriced, crappy, S&M gym equipment!”
5 March 2008, on 3:51 pm
Hi Eve, and thanks! It’s true, we really do still want a white night on a champion steed in this country, don’t we?
Did anyone see Obama’s wrap speech last night? He had to turn that into another long-winded oration. I kept thinking, “Oh, please, just say thank you and shut up already!” because I wanted to get back to the results coming in. To be fair, I didn’t see any of the other candidates’ thank-you remarks to their followers, maybe they were similar.
5 March 2008, on 9:12 pm
Did anyone see Obama’s wrap speech last night?
Yes, I saw it. Same ol long-winded oratory of nothing. It’s like someone put a nickel in him and couldn’t turn him off and he just had to run through his pre-recorded recitation of pretty words borrowed by others. His sheeple are still awed by him no matter what he says.
I hope if he is the Democratic candidate that he can stand up to the crap that the Republicans are going to throw at him. One of them being his relationship with shady Chicago developer Antoin “Tony” Rezko.