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	<title>Comments on: Sign, sign everywhere a sign</title>
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	<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/</link>
	<description>Commentary, news, and rants on the evils and stupidity of belief in the big invisible daddy in the sky.  Illuminating and watchdogging the widespread attempts to institutionalize the theocratic rule of the US. Making fun of believers everywhere.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 00:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: ChuckA</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337163</link>
		<dc:creator>ChuckA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 02:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337163</guid>
		<description>A Ramen for your rant, Neil.
As to your...
“getting high and fucking.” reference...

Ummm...Isn't that like a partial quote from one of FSM's "Holiest Noodly aphorisms [or Commandments]"?
If I recall correctly...
"Thou shalt pastathize (pasta-size?) thy belly, whilst getting high and fucking thy (thine?), and everybody elses, brains out!" 
I'm not quite sure; but it could be from...
The Book of Parmesan; chapter 11, verse 69?  
Of course, the "everybody" portion is from the newly revised version. Published, I think, circa 1968.
   :shock:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Ramen for your rant, Neil.<br />
As to your&#8230;<br />
“getting high and fucking.” reference&#8230;</p>
<p>Ummm&#8230;Isn&#8217;t that like a partial quote from one of FSM&#8217;s &#8220;Holiest Noodly aphorisms [or Commandments]&#8220;?<br />
If I recall correctly&#8230;<br />
&#8220;Thou shalt pastathize (pasta-size?) thy belly, whilst getting high and fucking thy (thine?), and everybody elses, brains out!&#8221;<br />
I&#8217;m not quite sure; but it could be from&#8230;<br />
The Book of Parmesan; chapter 11, verse 69?<br />
Of course, the &#8220;everybody&#8221; portion is from the newly revised version. Published, I think, circa 1968.<br />
   <img src='http://gods4suckers.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif' alt=':shock:' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337092</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337092</guid>
		<description>I posted the same comment at Unscrewing the Inscrutable...fell free to ignore if you read it there.  It's just that this is my favorite place for a good rant, but I saw it there first! 

The fact that the issue is about the use of public space and public money(if only for maintenance) automatically brings free speech and establishment clause issues into play. 

A court could rule that communities have the right to decide for themselves, by a popular or representative vote, what monuments to allow, but then minorities will always get the shaft. 
A court could use the establishment clause to ban all religious monuments that involve public space or money, but that is often seen as an unnecessary limitation on free speech. The pattern I see emerging is slowly trending towards fairness.

There are still issues though, no matter how fair the law. Putting up one religious monument opens the door for many more requests. I don't see local governments getting swamped with donated monuments-that is just a shitty excuse put forward by an obvious christian favoritist. But there is still the unanswered question of where to draw the line. 

  What standards can a local government enforce while being as fair as possible? Local governments have the power to refuse any other non-religious donation if it is deemed inappropriate. Could religious groups donate their propaganda art to communities outside their own and force them to take it? Can minority groups within the community be refused if officials can demonstrate a conflict of values? What if the local satanist group donates a beautiful piece of marble with some Anton LaVey quotes on it? Where do humanists and atheists fall in all this? Even if every religion is protected equally, the non-religious are not being treated fairly. 

A community could probably legally ban all religious messages on public land, but the question still has untidy threads dangling. What is religious? Would a Lao Tzu quote next to a babbling brook be too religious? Would a city be seen as discriminatory for allowing vague philosophy, or quasi-spiritual poetry, but not religion? 

The bummer to me, is that I am totally screwed either way. An atheist monument would probably be refused anywhere in America. I bet even Thomas Jefferson quotes would be disallowed if they were at all critical of religion.

At the heart of it, I am a bit offended that ANY religious group would complain about their current status in America.
The closest thing I have to prayer and religion is called "getting high and fucking." No community will accept my monument, no matter how true or beautiful, even if I leave out the "fucking." My sacraments involve small amounts of marijuana and quality beer, along with a godless appreciation of nature. Not only am I disallowed from spreading my gospel with public land or public money, I will be arrested if I try to peacefully practice my meditations anywhere in public. How's that for discrimination?  I might even be harrassed, searched, or followed home if I even talk about it too loudly in public! 
I try to sympathize with well-meaning groups who want to give of themselves to the community. But most of it is just pissing contest bullshit and chrisitan dominance displays. They already have much more freedom of speech and of association than I do, for no real reason but conservative moralist bigotry. When it comes down to it, nobody needs their silly plaques and totems taking up park space anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted the same comment at Unscrewing the Inscrutable&#8230;fell free to ignore if you read it there.  It&#8217;s just that this is my favorite place for a good rant, but I saw it there first! </p>
<p>The fact that the issue is about the use of public space and public money(if only for maintenance) automatically brings free speech and establishment clause issues into play. </p>
<p>A court could rule that communities have the right to decide for themselves, by a popular or representative vote, what monuments to allow, but then minorities will always get the shaft.<br />
A court could use the establishment clause to ban all religious monuments that involve public space or money, but that is often seen as an unnecessary limitation on free speech. The pattern I see emerging is slowly trending towards fairness.</p>
<p>There are still issues though, no matter how fair the law. Putting up one religious monument opens the door for many more requests. I don&#8217;t see local governments getting swamped with donated monuments-that is just a shitty excuse put forward by an obvious christian favoritist. But there is still the unanswered question of where to draw the line. </p>
<p>  What standards can a local government enforce while being as fair as possible? Local governments have the power to refuse any other non-religious donation if it is deemed inappropriate. Could religious groups donate their propaganda art to communities outside their own and force them to take it? Can minority groups within the community be refused if officials can demonstrate a conflict of values? What if the local satanist group donates a beautiful piece of marble with some Anton LaVey quotes on it? Where do humanists and atheists fall in all this? Even if every religion is protected equally, the non-religious are not being treated fairly. </p>
<p>A community could probably legally ban all religious messages on public land, but the question still has untidy threads dangling. What is religious? Would a Lao Tzu quote next to a babbling brook be too religious? Would a city be seen as discriminatory for allowing vague philosophy, or quasi-spiritual poetry, but not religion? </p>
<p>The bummer to me, is that I am totally screwed either way. An atheist monument would probably be refused anywhere in America. I bet even Thomas Jefferson quotes would be disallowed if they were at all critical of religion.</p>
<p>At the heart of it, I am a bit offended that ANY religious group would complain about their current status in America.<br />
The closest thing I have to prayer and religion is called &#8220;getting high and fucking.&#8221; No community will accept my monument, no matter how true or beautiful, even if I leave out the &#8220;fucking.&#8221; My sacraments involve small amounts of marijuana and quality beer, along with a godless appreciation of nature. Not only am I disallowed from spreading my gospel with public land or public money, I will be arrested if I try to peacefully practice my meditations anywhere in public. How&#8217;s that for discrimination?  I might even be harrassed, searched, or followed home if I even talk about it too loudly in public!<br />
I try to sympathize with well-meaning groups who want to give of themselves to the community. But most of it is just pissing contest bullshit and chrisitan dominance displays. They already have much more freedom of speech and of association than I do, for no real reason but conservative moralist bigotry. When it comes down to it, nobody needs their silly plaques and totems taking up park space anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Old Viking</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337076</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Viking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337076</guid>
		<description>Oh how I've been waiting for this. May it spread rapidly from coast to coast and border to border. May every tinpot sect and New Age contingent demand equal space. And may howls of Christian outrage fill the land.

P. S. We atheists are entitled to a tastefully rendered "God is Make-Believe" sign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh how I&#8217;ve been waiting for this. May it spread rapidly from coast to coast and border to border. May every tinpot sect and New Age contingent demand equal space. And may howls of Christian outrage fill the land.</p>
<p>P. S. We atheists are entitled to a tastefully rendered &#8220;God is Make-Believe&#8221; sign.</p>
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		<title>By: Eve</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337045</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337045</guid>
		<description>I sure do, Star!  Statements like inviting the Good Shepherd to make use of his humble sheep's - well - &lt;i&gt;derriere&lt;/i&gt; were dead giveaways, though... :-D

And about the post, I think it's about time we had the myriad religions and belief systems in this country horning in on the Ten Commandments' territory.  I for one want to see a plaque stating the three Wiccan "rules" proudly standing side by side with the Church of Satan's manifesto!  We sure saw this one coming - and I hope it keeps coming.

Are we sure that this Mormon group isn't a secularist wolf in sheep's clothing? ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sure do, Star!  Statements like inviting the Good Shepherd to make use of his humble sheep&#8217;s - well - <i>derriere</i> were dead giveaways, though&#8230; <img src='http://gods4suckers.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>And about the post, I think it&#8217;s about time we had the myriad religions and belief systems in this country horning in on the Ten Commandments&#8217; territory.  I for one want to see a plaque stating the three Wiccan &#8220;rules&#8221; proudly standing side by side with the Church of Satan&#8217;s manifesto!  We sure saw this one coming - and I hope it keeps coming.</p>
<p>Are we sure that this Mormon group isn&#8217;t a secularist wolf in sheep&#8217;s clothing? <img src='http://gods4suckers.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337016</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337016</guid>
		<description>I dunno, I think this "Summum" group is just a hidden branch of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno, I think this &#8220;Summum&#8221; group is just a hidden branch of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.</p>
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		<title>By: Stardust</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337011</link>
		<dc:creator>Stardust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337011</guid>
		<description>You all remember the April Fools' prank Sean/Ron pulled on all of us a few years ago where he changed the whole website to make it appear like Ron found Jeebus?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You all remember the April Fools&#8217; prank Sean/Ron pulled on all of us a few years ago where he changed the whole website to make it appear like Ron found Jeebus?</p>
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		<title>By: John Marley</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337007</link>
		<dc:creator>John Marley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337007</guid>
		<description>Happy April Fool's Day to you, too, RDZ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happy April Fool&#8217;s Day to you, too, RDZ.</p>
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		<title>By: Raindogzilla</title>
		<link>http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337003</link>
		<dc:creator>Raindogzilla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/03/31/sign-sign-everywhere-a-sign/#comment-337003</guid>
		<description>It is with admittedly weepy eyes but an abundant, newfound joy in my heart that I must bid you all adieu. Last night, I accepted Jesus into my heart and was born again as a foundling babe in the bosom of the &lt;a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2b1D5w82yU&#038;feature=related" rel="nofollow"&gt;Lord&lt;/a&gt;. Rest assured that I will try to make up for my arrogance and blasphemy herein by falling to my knees and praying for each one of you to find the peace that I have, one thousandfold. Goodbye my blind, perverted friends!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is with admittedly weepy eyes but an abundant, newfound joy in my heart that I must bid you all adieu. Last night, I accepted Jesus into my heart and was born again as a foundling babe in the bosom of the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2b1D5w82yU&#038;feature=related" rel="nofollow">Lord</a>. Rest assured that I will try to make up for my arrogance and blasphemy herein by falling to my knees and praying for each one of you to find the peace that I have, one thousandfold. Goodbye my blind, perverted friends!</p>
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