Sign, sign everywhere a sign
31 March 2008 by Stardust
We knew this was going to happen. This is what religious folks don’t understand why separation of church and state is important. In fairness to all religions, if Christians symbols are allowed on government and public property, all religions are going to want theirs’ placed there too. Christians symbols should not be allowed…then everyone else will not have a reason to cry that their oogie boogie beliefs are being discriminated against.
Supreme Court Agrees To Hear Controversy Over Religious Symbols On Public Property
Monday, March 31, 2008
Utah Religious Group Seeks To Place Its ‘Seven Aphorisms’ Beside The Ten Commandments
The U.S. Supreme Court announced today that it will hear a Utah dispute that centers on the display of religious symbols on public property.
Americans United for Separation of Church and State said the case brings the high court back into a confusing and controversial area of constitutional law.
Pleasant Grove City v. Summum deals with a religious group called Summum, which sought to erect its “Seven Aphorisms” alongside a Ten Commandments monument in a public park in Pleasant Grove, Utah. The group said city officials cannot constitutionally approve the Commandment display while excluding other monuments.
A federal appeals court agreed, holding that it violates freedom of speech for government to allow one group’s message on public property and exclude another.
“If government creates an open forum, it can’t pick and choose among religions,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, Americans United executive director. “Government officials could have avoided this controversy by refusing to put up the Ten Commandments in the first place.”
1 April 2008, on 12:48 am
Yeah Stardust…Will government stupidity never cease?
[Is it ever or never...I'm never sure!]
Barry Lynn: “Government officials could have avoided this controversy by refusing to put up the Ten Commandments in the first place.”
EXACTLY!!! ”
Is it quite possibly time for a little masterful comedic reminder?
I think so…warped as I am…
“George Carlin - Defrags the 10 Commandments”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyWEBbFwU1o
And how ’bout…
George Carlin for President? And…perhaps…
Larry Flint for VICE President?
Other suggestions…hmmMM?
I’m KIDDING…?
1 April 2008, on 12:49 am
At this rate the town square will be too cluttered to walk through it!
1 April 2008, on 1:28 am
Didn’t the xtian folks in Utah see this coming?
Oh, that’s right; we’re dealing with a religion that makes it difficult to see beyond ones’ own nose.
1 April 2008, on 2:43 am
Just wait for the Scientologists to get in on this racket…
1 April 2008, on 7:52 am
It is with admittedly weepy eyes but an abundant, newfound joy in my heart that I must bid you all adieu. Last night, I accepted Jesus into my heart and was born again as a foundling babe in the bosom of the Lord. Rest assured that I will try to make up for my arrogance and blasphemy herein by falling to my knees and praying for each one of you to find the peace that I have, one thousandfold. Goodbye my blind, perverted friends!
1 April 2008, on 8:24 am
Happy April Fool’s Day to you, too, RDZ.
1 April 2008, on 10:24 am
You all remember the April Fools’ prank Sean/Ron pulled on all of us a few years ago where he changed the whole website to make it appear like Ron found Jeebus?
1 April 2008, on 11:41 am
I dunno, I think this “Summum” group is just a hidden branch of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
1 April 2008, on 6:19 pm
I sure do, Star! Statements like inviting the Good Shepherd to make use of his humble sheep’s - well - derriere were dead giveaways, though…
And about the post, I think it’s about time we had the myriad religions and belief systems in this country horning in on the Ten Commandments’ territory. I for one want to see a plaque stating the three Wiccan “rules” proudly standing side by side with the Church of Satan’s manifesto! We sure saw this one coming - and I hope it keeps coming.
Are we sure that this Mormon group isn’t a secularist wolf in sheep’s clothing?
1 April 2008, on 8:19 pm
Oh how I’ve been waiting for this. May it spread rapidly from coast to coast and border to border. May every tinpot sect and New Age contingent demand equal space. And may howls of Christian outrage fill the land.
P. S. We atheists are entitled to a tastefully rendered “God is Make-Believe” sign.
1 April 2008, on 8:39 pm
I posted the same comment at Unscrewing the Inscrutable…fell free to ignore if you read it there. It’s just that this is my favorite place for a good rant, but I saw it there first!
The fact that the issue is about the use of public space and public money(if only for maintenance) automatically brings free speech and establishment clause issues into play.
A court could rule that communities have the right to decide for themselves, by a popular or representative vote, what monuments to allow, but then minorities will always get the shaft.
A court could use the establishment clause to ban all religious monuments that involve public space or money, but that is often seen as an unnecessary limitation on free speech. The pattern I see emerging is slowly trending towards fairness.
There are still issues though, no matter how fair the law. Putting up one religious monument opens the door for many more requests. I don’t see local governments getting swamped with donated monuments-that is just a shitty excuse put forward by an obvious christian favoritist. But there is still the unanswered question of where to draw the line.
What standards can a local government enforce while being as fair as possible? Local governments have the power to refuse any other non-religious donation if it is deemed inappropriate. Could religious groups donate their propaganda art to communities outside their own and force them to take it? Can minority groups within the community be refused if officials can demonstrate a conflict of values? What if the local satanist group donates a beautiful piece of marble with some Anton LaVey quotes on it? Where do humanists and atheists fall in all this? Even if every religion is protected equally, the non-religious are not being treated fairly.
A community could probably legally ban all religious messages on public land, but the question still has untidy threads dangling. What is religious? Would a Lao Tzu quote next to a babbling brook be too religious? Would a city be seen as discriminatory for allowing vague philosophy, or quasi-spiritual poetry, but not religion?
The bummer to me, is that I am totally screwed either way. An atheist monument would probably be refused anywhere in America. I bet even Thomas Jefferson quotes would be disallowed if they were at all critical of religion.
At the heart of it, I am a bit offended that ANY religious group would complain about their current status in America.
The closest thing I have to prayer and religion is called “getting high and fucking.” No community will accept my monument, no matter how true or beautiful, even if I leave out the “fucking.” My sacraments involve small amounts of marijuana and quality beer, along with a godless appreciation of nature. Not only am I disallowed from spreading my gospel with public land or public money, I will be arrested if I try to peacefully practice my meditations anywhere in public. How’s that for discrimination? I might even be harrassed, searched, or followed home if I even talk about it too loudly in public!
I try to sympathize with well-meaning groups who want to give of themselves to the community. But most of it is just pissing contest bullshit and chrisitan dominance displays. They already have much more freedom of speech and of association than I do, for no real reason but conservative moralist bigotry. When it comes down to it, nobody needs their silly plaques and totems taking up park space anyway.
1 April 2008, on 10:17 pm
A Ramen for your rant, Neil.
As to your…
“getting high and fucking.” reference…
Ummm…Isn’t that like a partial quote from one of FSM’s “Holiest Noodly aphorisms [or Commandments]“?
If I recall correctly…
“Thou shalt pastathize (pasta-size?) thy belly, whilst getting high and fucking thy (thine?), and everybody elses, brains out!”
I’m not quite sure; but it could be from…
The Book of Parmesan; chapter 11, verse 69?
Of course, the “everybody” portion is from the newly revised version. Published, I think, circa 1968.