Should Rev Jeremiah Wright STFU?
28 April 2008 by StardustAre Rev Wright’s rants and attracting media attention to himself hurting Obama’s campaign for the Presidency? Is the media making Wright look like an unpatriotic whackadoo, or is he really an unpatriotic whackado who needs to shut up? Is he still causing more division in contrast to Obama’s desire to unite America? Is Rev Wright confusing our desire to maintain separation of church and state as an “attack against the black church?” Is this just another god believer crying persecution when he can’t have his way and campaign from his church altar?
BILL MOYERS JOURNAL | Rev. Jeremiah Wright | Clip #1 | PBS
BILL MOYERS JOURNAL | Rev. Jeremiah Wright | Clip #2 | PBS
BILL MOYERS JOURNAL | Rev. Jeremiah Wright | Clip #3 | PBS
BILL MOYERS JOURNAL | Rev. Jeremiah Wright | Clip #4 | PBS
And
Reverend Jeremiah Wright National Press Club pt.1
28 April 2008, on 5:37 pm
Rev. Wright is not running for President. He’s not on Obama’s staff. He has no official affiliation with Obama for President Campaign. It’s quite possibly the stupidest non-issue of this election cycle, trumped only be lapel pins.
28 April 2008, on 5:54 pm
No, I don’t see how an intelligent, eloquent man explicating his beliefs can hurt anyone’s chances to do anything. Viewed properly as an earnest religious and social leader, Rev. Wright stands to raise the level of dialog–just as Sen. Obama stands to raise the level of dialog–over important topics that have lain below the surface for too long.
Just because we atheists reject for our own use faith as a method of knowing does not mean that we can deny that others find it useful in the pursuit of their daily lives.
Rev. Wright lays out a convincing case of the press and political opportunists abusing their access to the airwaves to smear both Sen. Obama and the traditions of the black church both by association and neither by complete consideration of facts and source material. The American public is being talked down to by its putative leaders (in the press and political office) who want to manipulate our opinion via soundbite.
The noble atheist principle of rationality based on evidence should recoil at these tactics, regardless of whether we consider the target to be misguided by his reliance on faith. Separation of church and state also entails leaving the church (as well as other private, non-state matters) alone in our public debate.
28 April 2008, on 6:35 pm
I think it would be an issue if Hagee starts talking for McCain. It will be really sickening in November if the two pastors start blabbering away at the media. If conservatives start this religious bullshit then we are all over them, but because Obama is a liberal we are going to just shrug it off as the media is making too much of it. Rev Wright is turning people off just like Hagee makes many of us hurl. I am sure as November nears, and we narrow it down to one Democratic candidate,we will all be ready to hurl from all this religion bullcrap.
Yes, the whole lapel pin thing is really dumbass. I mean, how many people wear them? My husband is a vet and doesn’t wear one. McCain doesn’t wear one…so what, big deal.
28 April 2008, on 6:42 pm
Rev. Wright lays out a convincing case of the press and political opportunists abusing their access to the airwaves to smear both Sen. Obama and the traditions of the black church both by association and neither by complete consideration of facts and source material. The American public is being talked down to by its putative leaders (in the press and political office) who want to manipulate our opinion via soundbite.
So, would you say the same thing when the press uses video clips of Hagee’s bigoted statements in relation to the McCain campaign? Should we not consider a person’s belief system at all, or how much they love Jeezus? It doesn’t matter? I think it does. Does look what we got with Dubya.
Separation of church and state also entails leaving the church (as well as other private, non-state matters) alone in our public debate.
And in the case of Rev Wright, he was illegally campaigning from the pulpit defying the separation of church and state. It is the religious who cannot abide by the laws regarding separation of church and state that as an atheist I wish to uphold no matter what race, color, background or political party. They should all be held to the same standards.
In all of my voting years, I have never seen politicians using religion so much in a Presidential election. Therefore, it makes it quite relevant because the candidates are bringing it up themselves, and kissing the ass of the religious right with trying to prove themselves to be holy followers of Jeeezus.
28 April 2008, on 6:59 pm
If it comes down to it, I will be forced to choose the liberal god botherer, but I ain’t gonna be thrilled about it. Wish we could just wipe the slate clean and start over…with fresh candidates.
28 April 2008, on 8:28 pm
In the interest of bipartisanship, I also don’t give too much of a shit about what Hagee has to say. I already know he’s batshit insane and I already know that Republicans actively seek out the support of batshit insane people.
Is Wright any less batshit insane? Well, Hagee does set the bar pretty damn high on that one, so I’ll give Wright the benefit of the doubt.
I’m a long time registered Democrat and I rarely vote anything other than straight ticket, so I’ll vote for him in November and may even throw a buck or two towards his campaign in the general, but his blather about hope and change strikes me as just political bullshit. He’s still another right of center politician, masquerading as a progressive.
I just wish I could be as idealistic as you, Stardust. If we wiped the slate clean, we’d get an even worse set of sleaze bags to choose from.
28 April 2008, on 8:33 pm
I just wish I could be as idealistic as you, Stardust. If we wiped the slate clean, we’d get an even worse set of sleaze bags to choose from.
I’m not so idealistic as to ever think that would happen. One of these elections before I grow old and die would be great to see some reputable candidates and see people focus on the issues rather than the “beauty contest” that it’s become.
but his blather about hope and change strikes me as just political bullshit
Yep, it most certainly is. I can’t understand the people who swoon in his presence as if he is some kind of healer. He’s just a politician same as them all. But yes, better him than Bush’s clone.
28 April 2008, on 9:08 pm
Stardust:
ChuckA’s comment on the previous post is fairly accurate, but bear with me on this for a paragraph or two.
I listened to part of what Wright said last night and I’ve read part of the other stuff. He is generally quoted out of context, by both the reichwingers and that good ol’ liebral MSM. But to me it is sort of beside the point.
I really think that african-americans like Jeremy Wright use “religion” in the same way that social commentators used science fiction in the 40’s and 50’s to disseminate “dangerous” ideas in the guise of telling stories. I’m not saying he’s not a GOD botherer, but he is, at least in my reading of his stuff, using the bully pulpit to speak to his people about social conditions in the here and now. If he was spouting the same fucking nonsense as Hagee it would NOT be an issue for the MSM or the reichwing.
28 April 2008, on 9:29 pm
One of these elections before I grow old and die would be great to see some reputable candidates and see people focus on the issues rather than the “beauty contest” that it’s become.
Way more idealistic than I am.
28 April 2008, on 10:10 pm
Way more idealistic than I am.
Not idealistic, it’s how it should be. But no thanks to our modern entertainment-obsessed society we live in everything is turned into a circus sideshow. Should we just give up hope on trying to at least get back to some sort of intelligent political discourse? Listening to Obama and Hillary go at each other is not much different than the WWE spoof done on the two of them.
28 April 2008, on 10:19 pm
Getting back to the point of the post is that shouldn’t for the good of Obama’s campaign, at least for now, shouldn’t Wright just shut up for awhile at least till the election is over? He is turning people off. Including several black people I have talked with about this. They want him to just go away for awhile, on a nice vacation somewhere till it’s over with.
28 April 2008, on 11:02 pm
Analysis: Wright does Obama little good
By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer Mon Apr 28, 7:05 PM ET
Seems like Obama is trying hard to distance himself, but for the Luv of Gawd, why doesn’t Wright just shut up? If I was campaigning for him I would be so pissed off at the old man.
I think Jeremiah Wright wants to be like Dr Martin Luther King…and Dr King he is NOT.
28 April 2008, on 11:31 pm
I guess I shouldn’t be so flippant, but unfortunately I have pretty much given up any hope that America can salvage the tattered remains of its Enlightenment foundation. The entire system is corrupt from top to bottom and civil political discourse is impossible when the owners of the country do not want an informed electorate.
Politically, I’m pretty far to the left of most people in America, but I also have a libertarian streak that borders on anarchism. I don’t think I have ever, in my entire life, voted for someone at the federal or state level. I’ve always voted against. There have been a handful of local elections, in which I supported someone outright, but even then its pretty rare that I’m not just voting to keep some bastard out of office.
Jeremiah Wright is an American citizen. He is not a politician and he is not running for office. As a pastor of a prominent church, I expect him to do exactly what he is doing. Apart from the god blather and the AIDS conspiracy nonsense, I actually agree with much of his highly criticized 9-11 speech. And I also agree that white America does not get the political and cultural significance of African American churches in America. We’ve whitewashed (pun very much intended) MLK’s legacy to such an extent, that we forget how much of a radical he was. The fact that Wright has suddenly popped on the scene due to Obama being a member of his church, does not change in any way Wright’s responsibility to himself and to his congregation. It’s my understanding he’s always been this vocal, but only within the confines of his local community. The fact that he now has a larger audience due Obama’s campaign shouldn’t mean that he should now sit down and be quiet. I doubt this man is capable. I don’t like it when people like Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris are told to sit down and be quiet, so I extend the same courtesy to Jeremiah Wright.
28 April 2008, on 11:41 pm
I’m still a little concerned over anybody being honestly disturbed over this man. Yes, with his portrayal of the stereotypical black preacher, complete with the rhetoric, hyperbole, and theatre that goes with it, he provides an easy target for the sotto voce‘d racists- and obviously the more overt variety as well- on the right.
There may, in fact, be such a thing as black racism, but gathering together and caring for one’s own doesn’t qualify as such(and if you have to ask why a “white separatist” church wouldn’t get the same kid gloves treatment, you’re beyond redemption anyway).
Obama has two problems. One is that his legendary charisma, his sheer star power cannot, alone, give him the office. He may be refraining from getting specific about plans and platform during the primary in the thought of not revealing his game plan to his GOP opponent until the actual Presidential campaign is engaged. But, whatever the reason, the force of his personality has worn a little thin.
However, this is due to his second problem. The sheer muleheaded and immature behavior of the Clinton campaign, of Clinton herself refusing to bow out gracefully for the good of the party and of the country. She still has some deep-seated belief that this is her party, her time, her shot, and how dare some johnny-come-lately like Obama interfere with her coronation. In some ways, I can understand her attitude. I mean, nobody really expected Obama to run this go around, much less to run ahead of her.
Anyway, Wright is an issue only to those still nurturing some discomfort over the notion of a black man in the Oval Office.
29 April 2008, on 5:54 am
RDZ:
Word.
29 April 2008, on 9:47 am
My concern is that Obama cannot defeat McCain, where polls show that Clinton can. As an Illinoian, I have seen first hand that Obama has not done anything yet to prove himself, except his charm and charisma — “flirtiness”. My “discomfort” is not about a black man being in the office, not at all. If this were a young, inexperienced white male candidate I would have the same skepticism…and race would not even be brought up if it was a white man. It is annoying when the black card is always used. Should not even be brought up in this day and age. He got elected in Illinois as Senator, he has gone far in this election and is still ahead. To pull out the race card every time there is a criticism or concerns when he is doing so well because of a large white population voting for him in the primaries is silly.
I’m still a little concerned over anybody being honestly disturbed over this man.
Obama is wise to distance himself, like Carter did his dumbass brother. People concerned about what role this “spiritual advisor” will play in Obama’s decision making once he is in the oval office and we have a right to question that and be concerned about it.
Like I said before, we won’t hesitate to get down on McCain about Hagee once this election campaign really gets going and heated. Hagee is going to be brought front and center on liberal blogs. We have done it here at GifS already and no one complained about that being merely irrelevant hyperbole. If we criticize McCain for accepting bigot Hagee’s endorsement, are we prejudice against old white men?
29 April 2008, on 11:00 am
The polls tend to fluctuate on McCain match ups. Everyone that I’ve seen shows Obama having a better chance against McCain than Clinton, but they are meaningless at this point in the cycle.
Defeating McCain won’t be due to the strength of either of the Democratic candidates. To defeat McCain, just keep shoving the 100 years in Iraq down his throat and let him choke on it. If the economy continues to worsen, and it will, McCain will be an incredibly weak candidate. If the Democrats can’t defeat this guy, then they are even bigger losers than I thought.
29 April 2008, on 11:06 am
To defeat McCain, just keep shoving the 100 years in Iraq down his throat and let him choke on it. If the economy continues to worsen, and it will, McCain will be an incredibly weak candidate. If the Democrats can’t defeat this guy, then they are even bigger losers than I thought.
I agree.
29 April 2008, on 11:36 am
So many thoughtful comments from everyone!
Not really surprising…
This IS GifS, after all!
I think we could ALL see this amazing stupidity coming, when religion became such an overriding concern with ALL the candidates…resulting, particularly from the longtime gradual rise of the, Ultra-Wingnut, Dominionist agenda. It was almost inevitable, in some ways, considering the amazing, eight year stretch of blatantly dumbass, faith-based bullshit that Bushfuck was bending over backwards to kiss ass with. Unfortunately, the Dems took the bait on mimicking the NeoCon fucks; and now we’re at the precipice of the further breakdown of Church/State separation.
Again, with a definitely related tangential point…
Another, not too surprising news story popped up yesterday RE just HOW amazingly stupid one of our ‘illustrious’ Supreme ‘Quart’ Justices is, RE torture.
[Thanks again, in great part, of course,to the Reagan..."Moral Majority" (or "Moral Fuck-over-you" years]
That, of course, would be Scolia. He even glibly brushed off the giving of the 2000 election to Bush by the “Supremes”, with a “Get over it!” comment. He, Thomas, and the Bush regime appointees, point up the ultra importance, in my opinion, of NOT giving any more chance to the Repiglican Wingnuts to further damaging the fragile “Wall of Separation”.
Unfortunately, this whole political love affair ‘dance’ with the invisible Skyboss is completely overshadowing that very crucial issue. Let’s hope, as we near the Fall, that there are enough voices heard on that subject to at least raise the consciousness of enough secular leaning voters to help influence their vote.
We need more commentators like Olbermann, perhaps, to highlight the absolute danger of electing another Right Wing Conservative. He’s also one of the few who SEEMS to be relatively non-religious.
Yeah…It all amounts to something like the “Perfect Political Storm” RE exactly what happens when Religion gets mixed WAY, WAY too thoroughly with Politics. I’ve certainly, in my somewhat long life, never seen anything quite so ridiculous as the current state of affairs!
That said…
I’m really looking forward to two films coming out this summer:
Bill Maher’s “Religulous”(?); and Phil Donohue’s documentary about the insane Iraq War!
It’ll be interesting to see if those films have any positive impact on the election.
[That reminds me of Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 911 film; which I think, in retrospect, was SO on-target about a whole lot of things; but seemed to have relatively little effect on the 2004 election. He sure became the object of intense Right Wing hatred for that film!
Yeah…cue Jack Nicholson…
“They can’t handle the Truth!”?
(and cue drums?: “ba-dum-bum-crash”)
29 April 2008, on 11:37 am
Stardust:
I don’t follow polls or pundits, because they are both completely bogus in my opinion. Having said that, I think it is interesting to note that Hillary Clinton is drawing a substantial chunk of the white union male voting bloc in the primaries.
I was in the union (IBEW) and watched in both 2000 and 2004 as the AFL-CIO endorsed first Gore and then Kerry–only to have the rank and file vote for Bush. They are fucking idiots to have done so, especially considering the current administrations total tin ear where labor is concerned.
Matters not, in the long run. If the dems ran a dead man/woman for president, that corpse would get my vote.
29 April 2008, on 11:51 am
If the dems ran a dead man/woman for president, that corpse would get my vote.
A corpse could do less damage than Bush has done.
29 April 2008, on 12:14 pm
A zombie president?
Finally, a candidate I can get behind.
“Send more paramedics”
29 April 2008, on 12:33 pm
Bush is like a zombie corpse with Cheney’s arm stuck up his ass.
29 April 2008, on 12:35 pm
Frankly, I’m just wating for Obama to find the candor to call some of the things Wright’s been saying “nonsense.”
29 April 2008, on 12:46 pm
Frankly, I’m just wating for Obama to find the candor to call some of the things Wright’s been saying “nonsense.”
That’s what I am waiting for to and one of the things that has me “perturbed”. People would have more confidence in him if he would just say it is nonsense instead of just briefly saying “some” of Wrights comments offend him…which ones offend him? What does he agree with? In a diverse nation, these things do matter.
29 April 2008, on 12:49 pm
Reverend Wright Advocates Separate but Equal at NAACP Dinner to Thunderous Applause – “Different is NOT Deficient”
http://lawconinsurance.blogspot.com/2008/04/reverend-wright-advocates-separate-but.html
“A statute which implies merely a legal distinction between the white and colored races-a distinction which is founded in the color of the two races, and which must always exist so long as white men are distinguished from the other race by color-has no tendency to destroy the legal equality of the two races” the Plessy v. Ferguson majority opinion enshired in law that different is not deficient
29 April 2008, on 12:57 pm
^^Lawyer…you might want to choose another handle when posting at blogs. You were caught in the spam queue and almost deleted as spam advertisements.
29 April 2008, on 2:14 pm
FINALLY!
Obama says he’s outraged by former pastor’s comments
So, guess it comes from the top that Rev Wright should indeed STFU!
29 April 2008, on 3:07 pm
And now this story which clarifies what I wanted to know exactly what offended Obama. Glad he finally came out and denounced him harshly. It’s about time.
Now it would be nice if Wright would take a nice long vacation in seclusion if he can’t control himself. But I have a feeling that Wright is more about bringing attention to himself than he cares about the Obama campaign. If he really cared he would not be causing a stir when it is so critical for the Dems for him to just shut up.
29 April 2008, on 6:42 pm
Just heard an opinion from someone I know who says that he thinks that Obama and Wright have an agreement that Obama is going to have to say what he has to say to get elected, even if he has to talk against his beloved “mentor”.
29 April 2008, on 8:04 pm
Honestly, it doesn’t matter at this point whether or not Clinton could make it a better race against McCain. The point is, that the majority of Dem voters have said Obama is who they want and Hillary can’t seem to take “no” for an answer. Do we want the one with the best chance of winning? Sure, but who decides? What polls do we listen to? When did peoples’ votes stop counting? You see what I’m getting at? Democracy, you know?
Frankly, except for their being couched in religious claptrap, Wright’s words are not particularly radical or extreme. Not when those words are from a leader of a long-oppressed class of people that to some degree is still dealing with the ass-end of the stick societally.
I know. It’s one of those issues that’s still an issue no matter how easily it’s proven that it ought not be an issue at all. That’s just because people are stupid and I refuse to put training wheels on my bike just because everybody can’t ride on the customary two.
29 April 2008, on 8:42 pm
Given the choice between Lady MacBeth, Malcolm X, and Grandpa, I’m sticking with Grandpa.
29 April 2008, on 8:59 pm
Lady Macbeth. LOL grandpa…LOL sad we have come to such characters to choose from. I hope McCain chooses a non-fundie running mate because if elected good chance he may not live out his full term in office (which could be good or bad depending on his running mate and if that running mate’s war stance). Just look at how younger Presidents age in four short years. Gramps already looks partially embalmed.
I think Wright being buddies with and praising Louis Farrakhan is sort of radical.
(In response to Farrakhan’s remarks, the Obama campaign promptly released a response distancing himself from the muslim minister: “Senator Obama has been clear in his objections to Minister Farrakhan’s past pronouncements and has not solicited the minister’s support,” said Obama spokesman Bill Burton.[8] Obama himself denounced and rejected Farrakhan’s support in an NBC debate.)
Obama seems to have one or two too many religious nutcase supporters for being a liberal Democrat.
And if one argues that America’s perception of Wright and Farrakhan’s image have been shaped by media sound bites, (and I am not defending the rethuglicans or Bush here…just making a point) cannot the rethuglicans and Bush administration make the same claims? Some of both Wright’s and Farrakhan’s have been racist, homophobic, and antisemitic.
29 April 2008, on 10:12 pm
stardust–
I think Limbaugh screwed us with Operation Chaos. He reminds me of a character we see in movies, y’know, that kind that wants to keep an extremely dangerous alien alive for study, or thinks we can safely pull a stake out of a vampire’s heart.
If the Obammunist would have finished off Clinton in Ohio and Texas, the Clinton supporters at ABC wouldn’t have spilled the beans on Wright, and our 527s would have unloaded the goods in October. Now Hillary is within striking distance of stealing it via winning the popular vote, and the Democrat media will blame Obama’s loss on us racist Republicans. Bah.
29 April 2008, on 10:21 pm
Okay, what’s the point of this? Farrakhan and Wright are not on Obama’s staff. Obama did not actively seek Farrakhan’s support, unlike McCain seeking out Hagee’s support. Obama has absolutely no control over what Farrakhan does or says. How is Farrakhan claiming to support for Obama Obama’s fault?
29 April 2008, on 10:44 pm
Todd–
McCain is criticized for Hagee, a fundie that McCain has no relation to and met at a campaign event.
If this is fair game, then so is Obama’s spiritual mentor for 20 YEARS. Obama goes to a hardcore fundie megachurch on 95th street right here in Chicago. TObama is an educated man and is familiar with James Cone and the foundations of his faith. Wiki it — this is some *very* twisted stuff. This Church also supports Hamas and gave a lifetime achievement award to Louis Farrakhan. I don’t want Wright as a sick Rasputin character in a Barack Hussein Obama White House.
It is disgusting that progressives are giving Obama a free pass on his faith. They hear “damn America” and automatically sympathize with him. That’s even more disgusting, given America is a creature of the Enlightenment and its main agent in today’s world.
29 April 2008, on 11:19 pm
How is Farrakhan claiming to support for Obama Obama’s fault?
I didn’t see Obama denouncing Wright’s support of Farrakhan when Obama was a mere church member.
You can bet your bottom dollar that if it was the other way around we would be all over it like flies on shit, and rightfully so. Why make exceptions just because they are supposedly on our side? I didn’t leave Christianity to start blindly following some other “flock”.
Also, Wright is a big hypocrite. He preaches about the struggle of the black people yet lives in a 10,000 sq ft million dollar home built for him by his church while many of his church parishoners struggle with no jobs or low income. And this is Obama’s “mentor”…that is the difference.
But look how many low income and poverty-stricken black families that money from the church could have helped. This is Obama’s church. Church members vote on things. This stuff just doesn’t get passed. The congregation must vote on it. Even the more affluent churches in the area I live in don’t put their retired pastors up in the lap of luxury. Strange.
29 April 2008, on 11:30 pm
Whoa, folks.
McCain DID seek Hagee’s endorsement. No question about that.
Louis Farrakhan and Jeremy Wright are both political animals and are using Obama’s candidacy to flog their own product. I personally think Obama should be honest and say that what Wright says has a lot of truth to it. The “nuttiness” springs from a lack of evidence.
John McCain is a soulless fucking pimp.
29 April 2008, on 11:36 pm
Louis Farrakhan and Jeremy Wright are both political animals and are using Obama’s candidacy to flog their own product.
Absolutely. And why would they continue to do so when they should know that it will hurt Obama’s campaign? I don’t get it. It’s almost as if they are doing it purposely.
McCain DID seek Hagee’s endorsement. No question about that.
That is despicable, but so is Obama having a racist, bigoted “mentor” that he took forever to denounce. And like I said, Obama didn’t denounce Wright or Farrakhan while he was a mere church member. What changed with him? Ummm…he wants to get elected and knows they will hurt his campaign.
John McCain is a soulless fucking pimp.
Most politicians are soulless fucking pimps doing anything to get elected.
Each election gets more and more bizarre.
29 April 2008, on 11:39 pm
Trinity UCC is nowhere near being a hardcore fundamentalist church. Having spent half my life in hardcore fundamentalism, Obama’s church is about the furthest thing from I can imagine from being fundamentalist. It is socially active, much like Farrakhan, which is probably why they gave some sort of meaningless award. None of which has anything to do with Obama’s campaign, his positions, or anything else. Farrakhan is a boogie man in a cheap suit and bow tie. He’s as irrelevant in the grand scheme of things as are both Wright and Hagee. Sideshow distractions to keep the unwashed masses from noticing they are being fucked over by their corporate owners. The most amusing thing about the whole Trinity UCC is a scary black church meme, is that it isn’t even a black church.
If I stopped voting for people because they are religious whack jobs, then I might as well stay home on election day. Obama is a clever bullshit artist, same as Clinton and McCain. Big deal. I don’t trust him any more than the other two. But my biggest beef with him isn’t his crazy beliefs (which aren’t much different from Clinton’s), but the fact that he’s yet another phony right of center Democrat promising change.
29 April 2008, on 11:42 pm
It is socially active, much like Farrakhan, which is probably why they gave some sort of meaningless award.
If Hagee’s church gave the leader of the KKK a “meaningless award” would we just fluff it off?
but the fact that he’s yet another phony right of center Democrat promising change.
I agree. This is why many Dems are disillusioned. Most of the Republicans in my family are equally as disillusioned. Hillary is a phony, they are all phonies. I am not even certain if we elect a liberal if it will do any good. Our Democratic congress we finally got has been rather wimpy.
The most amusing thing about the whole Trinity UCC is a scary black church meme, is that it isn’t even a black church.
Umm…yes it is. And is very proud of its black tradition.
I think the Wright, being an educated man, should have found a better way to introduce his church and history to the general public for better understanding if he is going to associate himself with and represent himself as a supporter of Obama. He is coming across as a bigoted whackadoo and hurting much more than he is helping. Most people never heard of this church, or what goes on in black churches until now. Now would have been the time to try to bridge that gap instead of widening it.
recently it has become known for the breadth and diffusion of its many ongoing social programs on behalf of the disadvantaged,
Which makes Wright’s nearly two-million-dollar home all the more hypocritical.
30 April 2008, on 12:26 am
Should Wright STFU? Hell no. If he did, there would be as many people wringing their hands over his abdication of responsibility to speak truth to power, or some such shit. Besides, we still maintain the polite fiction that we live in a Democracy, yes? That means anyone who can speaks their mind. Lately, we atheists/freethinkers have been howling at, primarily, christians for daring to shut us out of public discourse. How do you justify the same thing in regards to Wright?
Not much of what Wright says is particularly scandalous. I don’t begrudge him using the temporary national spotlight to yell. This country is stupid with idiotic assumptions based on race; so much so that having coherent conversations is very nearly impossible. Any time an articulate person has the chance to make the comfortable uncomfortable, s/he should. If enough people from varied camps find what is being said disturbing it likely is a truth. And who in Public life is without blemish? Everyone holds to ideas that someone else thinks is undiluted lunacy. I do, Stardust does, Obama does, Wright does, you do.
30 April 2008, on 12:46 am
Lately, we atheists/freethinkers have been howling at, primarily, christians for daring to shut us out of public discourse. How do you justify the same thing in regards to Wright?
I am not saying he should be kept from speaking his mind, but shouldn’t be going on a tour of public rants while the candidate he supposedly supports needs him to be quiet right now. Where was he before? Why is he doing this now? Just to be in the fucking limelight at the potential risk to the Obama campaign? At the least, it has to be causing a distraction to Obama and an unnecessary frustration no candidate needs right now, especially from a supposed “friend”.
Any time an articulate person has the chance to make the comfortable uncomfortable, s/he should. If enough people from varied camps find what is being said disturbing it likely is a truth.
And like I said, now is not the time to make people uncomfortable when we want to get the rethuglicans out of office, is it? If they win again because of Wright’s antics (because in reality people will be turned off by his rants, and Obama knows this) then Wright and all the rest will be belly-aching and crying persecution when he did nothing positive to help his candidate win.
What Wright is doing almost seems like sabotage to me.
30 April 2008, on 12:57 am
I just got over a cold and boy am I pissed at the US government for giving it to me! And that damn cocaine! It’s all Uncle Sam’s fault - just put some money in the collection plate so I can live in a posh house on the golf course!
RDZ - Wow! You didn’t just imply that anyone who sees an issue with Wright is racist against “black” people, did you? You owe all of us who do an apology. To call someone racist is a serious accusation and it shouldnt be handed out so frivolously. I guess I should be taking your comments on anything related to the presidential race with a grain of salt ever since I found out that you work on the Obama campaign. Perhaps we should advocate a move away from collectivism and reevaluate how we define racism. Separitists like Wright are keeping alive the idea that there are separate races of human, an idea which leads to violence and is naturally dying with increased human mobility and genetic research debunking it. When I saw “Death to the white man” etched into the wall on a public restroom in chicago, it made me wonder. Now I know who is encouraging this type of stuff - the pastor in his million dollar house who tells lies to his blindly faithful congregation, who’s church tells parishoners to be “soldiers for black freedom”. I take issue with Wright, not just because of his close relationship with a possible president, but because what he does mkes our society less cohesive and fosters an atmosphere of hate and violence.
30 April 2008, on 1:21 am
RDZ-
Regarding your assertion that the majority of democratic voters have chosen Obama… Millions are yet to have their votes counted. As someone who sincerly advocates democracy, I would just as soon every last one of the voters had their voices heard. As someone who is so concerned with democracy, where is your outrage that Obama is actually overrepresented in delegates - even counting the superdelegate edge that clinton now holds. If you compare the popular vote percentage and the delegate percentage, you actually find that Obama is overrepresented. This happened because of the way districts are cut up. In spite of heavy snow across much of the northern parts of the country during rimary season that no doubt resulted in an overepresentation of Obama’s more urban base, this year has far more democratic voters registered and awake to the political season than ever before. To declare that the race is over and that continuing hurts the party is not only exclusive of millions of anxious voters, but it is flat out wrong. I find your statements offensive and not very well thought out. I have followed many of the posts on this website as a whole and the two of us do share a fair amount of common ground… I guess we all learn from eachothers ideas in an open forum such as this…
30 April 2008, on 1:31 am
I’m not in Mr. Wright’s head, but it is possible that he feels that Obama is betraying something due to the necessity of seeming to water down principles to appeal to the widest base in a national election. I am not attempting to defend Wright’s “shenanigans” or Obama’s distancing himself from them, just throwing out a possible rationale for Wright’s actions other than mischief, other than egomania.
Wright did come up in a Liberation Theology milieu, which called for rabble rousing. I read a comment to the effect that Wright is no King, but King was also an educated Northern troublemaker who preached Liberation Christianity, and made even some of his natural allies uncomfortable.
I understand the desire to cause as few waves as possible that might capsize the first Black President boat, but whichever way the election goes, there are going to be many interesting conversations coming out of this, as well as a bit of cathartic action. Even if we get saddled with another hustler like Clinton or McCain the things that Wright is saying, outside of the HIV = genocide nonsense-well, even that- are going to have to be addressed. The race thingie is suffused through our whole history as a nation, and needs to be thrown in some people’s faces even if it fucks up an election.
IMO, of course. I like you, Stardust, and am not picking a fight with you.
I think…
30 April 2008, on 1:36 am
Interesting how Wright is so blunt in the clips, sayinig how Obama will just say what a politician has to say and that he has to say what a pastor has to say… What an inspirational message! I am not sure how people can get off comparing Wright (maybe I should just call him “Wrong”) to Dawkins, Sam Harris, or MLK… Dawkins does not incite violence and sell lies so he can live in a posh house. MLK was famous for advocating togetherness, not separation! I think a more appropriate comparison would be to David Duke - Even though Duke has a little bit darker skin than Wrong come late august in the south… I apologize for anyone who takes offense at that last comment, but in all seriousness, situations such as that display how absurd it is to group people on the basis of skin color.
Even if it were valid to assign the subspecies or race classification to different populations of humans on the basis of genetic relatedness, breaking up the groups on basis of skin color would be misleading at best. I and many others feel the race classification is not justified because of the relatively high genetic variation among said populations as well as the ever present and increasing mobility and thus mixing between populations. When we follow pseudo science, we are led astray.
30 April 2008, on 6:56 am
OJD:
I’m not sure that Wright argues for separateness so much as he emphasizes that which exists. To compare him with David Duke is laughable. David Duke is walking excrement. David Duke is a man who would likely be very comfortable in a white sheet, at a lynching or as a camp commandant at Auschwitz. He is scum. Wright is a lot of things and one of the things he is a pretty smart black man. He is using the opportunity he’s been given, to get his points out (complete with headline grabbing hyperbole). But he is not, at his worst, anything like that pos, David Duke.
Obama’s “religion” is probably a lot like mine was before I finally dumped it altogether. I still go to church for weddings, funerals, etc., to show respect or keep the peace with some family members. I will not discuss religion with them as it always leads to ugliness. I suspect Obama is as religious as McCain, the Clintons or the current fuckwad-in-chief–which is to say, under the klieg lights only.
Religion is the new patriotism–what a fucking shame.
Hagee’s take on the world, btw, makes Wright’s look very pollyannish.
30 April 2008, on 9:23 am
but King was also an educated Northern troublemaker who preached Liberation Christianity, and made even some of his natural allies uncomfortable.
Dr Martin Luther King preached Unity, not division. His statements were not hateful, his preaching was not hate-filled and did not have a hateful tone. That is why both blacks and whites hold him in such high esteem today. Wright would send us back to the 60s all over again. He is living in the past and not looking at the progress we have made. There is a black candidate, who is in the lead, who is taken seriously. Who is being scrutinized at the same level as any other candidate. If we criticize, it is not because he is black, but because he wants to be President, and after 8 years of hell, the American people are going to do a lot of scrutinizing of all candidates.
Hagee’s take on the world, btw, makes Wright’s look very pollyannish.
That is true about the level of craziness…however, Hagee is not on a country-wide rant embarrassing his candidate right now (though I am waiting for it to happen later.) Bringing up Hagee’s bigotry does not excuse Wrights. We have come a long way, have a ways to go but we are in the right direction. We don’t need old fogies from the 60s who have a beef with the society at the time in which they lived sending us backwards.
Wright fails to point out that many of King’s dreams have come true.
30 April 2008, on 9:35 am
IMO, of course. I like you, Stardust, and am not picking a fight with you.
Christ Davis, I know.
This is discussion amongst friends, expressing our viewpoints and opinions. Even in our own family we have these discussion and no love lost and things get pretty heated at our house sometimes! 
LOL!
And this site, like all the others should be able to discuss opposing and varied points of view. It’s why we are one of the best sites on the Internet.
30 April 2008, on 10:34 am
“The most amusing thing about the whole Trinity UCC is a scary black church meme, is that it isn’t even a black church.”
I live in Chicago. You have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, Obama’s Church is a black separatist Church, and very political too. (So much for progressive support for separation of Church and State.) Next time you visit, give me a call, and we can crash a service together.
The left is in total denial that their Lord and Savior, St. Obama, goes to a fundie megachurch based on the principles of James Cone. They think Wright speaks the truth about the govt giving blacks AIDS, Jesus being a black man killed by garlic noses, and so forth. Just kidding — the left only gets orgasms over Wright’s raw, irrational anger against the Great Satan.
Wright is retiring to a mansion in Tinley Park. One has to be a complete Obamaton to believe this man suffers from oppression.
I remember Hannity debating Wright in February 2007. (We Republicans have known about this clown long before Clinton’s friends in the Democrat media exposed him.) Hannity asked Wright what his Church meant by the “black value system,” the black this, the black that etc in the Church’s mission statement. Wright’s response was to condescend to Hannity, implying that Hannity was an ignoramus for not reading James Cone.
This is the same James Cone, who on p27 of the _Black Theology of Liberation_ wrote
“Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer and we better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal.”
No wonder Obama threw his white grandmother under the bus. There are 9,000,000 people in the Chicago metro area, and of all the Churches, he picks this one. If Obama is authentic, then he is a fanatic. If Obama is a phony, then so much for the politics of change. And given Obama is friends with thugs like William Ayers, I shudder at who will be given security clearances in an Obama administration.
30 April 2008, on 1:25 pm
J. H. Bowden brings up some good points. Interesting what you find when you actually do research into the texts of “liberation theology”. Maybe someone should try and explain to me how it is not divisive and patronizing at best to describe someone as a smart black man instead of a smart man. All this collectivism gets us nowhere. Sometimes I think this should be called the demograhic primary instead of the democratic one. It is really not democracy in action when people vote in blocks based on arbitrary divisions imposed on them by the media (and others) without researching the candidates in the least. I refuse to simply assert that people are stupid and that all politicians are corrupt and that we simply must always vote a straight ticket in one party or the other.
Wright will not go away, even when he has a luxurious house to retreat to from the “oppressive” society that provided that house to him.
30 April 2008, on 11:26 pm
Would we be having this conversation if Wright were saying the same things, but as an atheist?
30 April 2008, on 11:39 pm
Would we be having this conversation if Wright were saying the same things, but as an atheist?
If he is talking nuttery like the US introducing AIDS to its minority citizens, etc. Obama isn’t distancing himself from Wright because he agrees with him or that Wright is saying anything that will help his campaign. Obama made clear that he is offended by what Wright has said in recent weeks. The man may have done a lot to help people in his community over the years, however the old man is living in the past. Even Jimmy Carter has said that Wright is way out there and seems like he is doing it on purpose to hurt Obama for some reason. Maybe not, but it sure seems that way.
He is a hypocrite. Talking about the oppressed, and downtrodden then lets the church members pay for his castle. I live in a upper-middle class area and the pastors here do not retire anywhere near as lavishly as Rev Wright.
1 May 2008, on 2:48 am
The answer is: it is bad for Obama.