Ben, Like Raindog says, much of our problems on this planet are humans fault. Gotta have our big cars, gotta have all our electricity, our garbage piles high. We don’t think about it because we won’t be here…let the next generations worry about it. No god is going to clean up the mess.

Nature is at “fault” of most natural disaster. It’s just the way things are. NO god causes these things, no god prevents them. They just happen and no help comes from any god to clean up the mess. No messes get cleaned up unless humans intervene and take action. No god waves a magic wand and makes things all better. No god cures the cancers in little children and adults, no god feeds those who are starving to death and being exploited in third world countries, no god keeps a president from starting an unjustified war. No god prevents perverts from molesting and murdering children. No god stops the gangs from murdering, stealing and killing each other. No god comes, Ben. Humans strive to sort out the messes other humans make. But no god causes it, no god cleans up the messes.

OK…I got carried away a bit!
So, Spank me!…see if I care!

However, Ben, what we do or don’t do in the “real world” about this catastrophe is irrelevant to the concept of “Bad God” (a.k.a. maltheism or dystheism) that Bob is blogging about. You yourself, in fact, have agreed with this concept by pointing out that the character of God as portrayed in the Old Testament is not just loving but also unfair and wrathful to a degree that puts Emperor Palpatine from the Star Wars series to shame.

Quite frankly, it makes him just as horrible as some of the bloodier pagan deities, and perhaps even worse because of the awful doctrine of original sin (Karen, above, describes it very well in my opinion). Tragedies like the Burmese cyclone sharply delineate the cognitive dissonance going on in the abrahamic brain: god is all-good and all-loving, but yet he causes such pain, suffering, and death, even on babies and children, just because way back when some chick ate a fruit he told her not to even though he knew she was going to and he was going to have to punish her descendants forever and ever for it, and he himself planted the damn tree in the first place just so that he could tell her not to knowing all the while that she would any-

Gah! Do you get it, now? Bad God! Bad, bad God!

If you want to talk religion, here is your stereotypical christian response: “It is our fault… All of our fault. It was our ancestors, their ancestors. God created us and loved us, and we turned our back and ran from Him, what else do we deserve besides death? Yet, we are still here, no?” So there you have it. There is my EXTREMELY BRIEF RANT on whose fault it was.

I need to ask, because I can’t tell from your comment, do YOU believe this to be true, or are you just saying that this is what the typical xian would say?

Our POV, as has been stated, is that it’s NO ONE’S fault. Natural disasters are natural disasters, period. As benjamin said, we hear Christians constantly assigning blame or else praising god for “miracles” when they manage to narrowly escape disasters such as this. They brazenly believe that ole Gordo was watching, heard their prayers, and plucked them out of danger’s way according to some magnificent plan–never mind that their praying neighbor was just crushed beneath a house.

That whole original sin deal is balderdash. Would you accept being tried for a crime your grandfather committed? Or his grandfather. Especially if he was duped into the act in the first place?

here’s the YouTube/Google link to a rather hilarious little Star Wars takeoff gem…
“THE EMPIRE STRIKES BARACK”:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7766861575959546230&hl=en

My answer:
We live on a relatively tiny evolutionary planet…in one of the Milky Way Galaxy’s Billions of Solar systems…in one of THIS particular Universe’s Billions (or Trillions?) of galaxies…and according to some of the latest theories in Physics…just ONE Universe amongst, a possible infinite number of Universes!!!

However, to keep things in context (and perspective?) with the more immediate, ‘mundane’ subject at hand…
So-called “Nature” is FILLED with potentially enormous, violent “Universal” Forces which have absolutely NO apparent personal agenda.
In other words; nothing personal, folks!…it’s NOBODY’S “fault”. It’s always been the nature of Forces governing the Planet through Billions [I miss Carl Sagan saying that!]of years of evolution.
Unfortunately for us wee little humans…if you’re in the ‘wrong’ place, at the ‘wrong’ time…ummm…too bad (tough shit?)!
There’s certainly no consolation in that fact, of course. We can all only do our level best to be truly compassionate and helpful to our fellow passengers on this tiny little space ship we call “Earth”.
Lots of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE doesn’t hurt, either. We certainly DON’T need a lot of made-up, bogus judgmental bullshit!
Just my opinion, of course…I feel very sad…and powerless, indeed, reading Karen’s posting of such a heartrending description regarding this almost unbelievable tragedy. Of course, there are a LOT of potential natural disasters just waiting to happen in many places on this Planet…Nothing new, indeed…
the old: “It’s only a matter of time!”
This “Nature” stuff has been going on forever.
I feel ‘lucky’, indeed, to be living in a place on the planet which…at least for now…is relatively “safe”!
In summation; as an atheist, and on a much lighter note(?), may I add:
“We don’t need no (any) stinking Gawds!” to account for what happens in this, often baffling, extremely bizarre, Universe!”

I think, perhaps this is an issue/catastrophe that we may want to step back from and realize the hurt before beginning a debate or complaint about it.

Ben, I think it should be noted that the hurt I feel personally for these people is slightly larger and deeper than you think. In fact, I’d even go so far as to say that the intense pain I feel causes me to speak out in the way that I do.

By coming out just days after this occurs and already blaming or questioning is giving absolutely no thought or respect to those “downtrodden” who lost their lives, families, homes, crops, and everything else.

Come on, Ben. You know that’s just not true, and that one’s feelings of sadness could prompt writing, thinking, talk, and doing.

If you want to talk religion, here is your stereotypical christian response: “It is our fault… All of our fault. It was our ancestors, their ancestors. God created us and loved us, and we turned our back and ran from Him, what else do we deserve besides death? Yet, we are still here, no?” So there you have it. There is my EXTREMELY BRIEF RANT on whose fault it was. I know you know it. You claim to be past Christians, current atheists, so there was no need to say that.

You’re right, Ben. We all know the drill for the “reasons given” — but, more important, we all know that those reasons are complete bullshit, and that there are people out there (perhaps yourself, I don’t know) who think, falsely, that those reasons suffice. And then these people (perhaps like yourself) use such bogus excuses to justify not only their beliefs, but to then force their beliefs on others through social policies, both local and national.

I hope we are giving this situation the attention it needs. There are PEOPLE in need ALL over the world. Right now, hundreds of thousands have lost everything and yet I find myself still sitting here debating a religious stance.

I think some things need to be clarified here. Are there people in need all over the world? Yes, of course. Should we help them? Of course we should. (I just sent something to Oxfam, and I would hope others would, too. Hey, it’s a start.)

It’s as if you’re claiming that the people who read this blog are just sitting around complaining about the fact that over 15,000 people died, and not doing anything about it.

Ben, what the hell do you think we do all day?

Granted, I’m sure some blog readers might in fact be lazy-asses and not do much of anything. But don’t just assume that, because of the post, that’s what’s going on here.

I know I am the one who came to the site and read the article, but please please please… This is not about blaming people or religion… it happened.

Ben, I embrace your empathetic reaction to this tragedy, and we all feel that way, I’m sure. (I find it very refreshing that you indeed feel for these people, as I do.)

But remember what kind of site this is, not just the fact that you came here. It’s just an atheist site. It’s not a site for “lazy atheists who don’t do anything but complain.” It’s just a place for people to go when they’ve had too much and they want to get something off their chest. That’s all it is.

Now what?
If there is no God, fine…
what is YOUR explanation.
Whose fault is it?
Nature?
That’s gotta be it,right?

Ben, people died from processes that we’re only now slowly starting to comprehend. We need to try to control them and stop them. But, for now, all we can do is just help people as best we can — and not help them because of some old and dysfunctional ideology.