Update on the Duggars - Woman pregnant with 18th child
9 May 2008 by Stardust
Michelle Duggar caused quite a stir in the news media when she gave birth to her 17th child not that long ago. I posted about it in this story: “Quiverfull as God allows.”
Michelle Duggar continues to be “quiverfull” for the Lord” 
Happy Mother’s Day: Woman pregnant with 18th child
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - It’s a happy Mother’s Day for an Arkansas woman — she’s pregnant with her 18th child.
Michelle Duggar, 41, is due on New Year’s Day, and the latest addition will join seven sisters and 10 brothers. There are two sets of twins.
“We’ve had three in January, three in December. Those two months are a busy time for us,” she said, laughing.
The Duggars’ oldest child, Josh, is 20, and the youngest, Jennifer, is nine months old.
The fast-growing family lives in Tontitown in northwest Arkansas in a 7,000-square-foot home. All the children — whose names start with the letter J — are home-schooled.
Duggar has been been pregnant for more than 11 years of her life, and the family is in the process of filming another series for Discovery Health.
The new show looks at life inside the Duggar home, where chores — or “jurisdictions” — are assigned to each child. One episode of the new show involves a “jurisdiction swap,” where the boys do chores traditionally assigned to the girls, and vice versa, Duggar said.
“The girls swapped jurisdictions, changing tires, working in the garages, mowing the grass,” she said. “The boys got to cook supper from start to finish, clean the bathrooms,” among other chores.
Duggar said she’s six weeks along and the pregnancy is going well. She and her husband, Jim Bob Duggar, said they’ll keep having children as long as God wills it.
“The success in a family is first off, a love for God, and secondly, treating each other like you want to be treated,” Jim Bob Duggar said. “Our goal is for each one of our children to be best friends, and everybody working together to serve each other makes that happen.”
The other Duggar children, in between Joshua and Jennifer, are Jana, 18; John-David, 18; Jill, 16; Jessa, 15; Jinger, 14; Joseph, 13; Josiah, 11; Joy-Anna, 10; Jeremiah, 9; Jedidiah, 9; Jason, 7; James, 6; Justin, 5; Jackson, 3; and Johannah, 2.
They just keep plopping out babies because they believe it’s the Lawd’s will, but what about this “free will” and personal choices that Xians say they have? To me, this is highly irresponsible, and selfish. Why not adopt some of those children out there who need homes if you have so much desire to have children? Why does not their God call them to take in the needy and homeless children of our country instead of mindlessly plopping out more and more of their own?
Maybe it’s not so mindless. Maybe they are doing it for money and publicity? This comment might explain it all:
Duggar has been been pregnant for more than 11 years of her life, and the family is in the process of filming another series for Discovery Health.
I wonder how much they get paid for that?
9 May 2008, on 12:19 pm
Aren’t they also getting some kind of tax break because the dad calls their property’s buildings “churches?”
From an environmental viewpoint, this is awfully selfish of them to be making so many consumers…unless they are magically producing their own fresh water, gas, and electricity somehow.
OT: have you seen the video on CNN of coyotes attacking little kids in CA? I guess the toddlers’ guardian angels were off enjoying a margarita or something.
9 May 2008, on 12:34 pm
Hi andrea, yeah…they do get a tax break because their property’s buildings are designated as “churches”. What a crock of crap.
And yes, from an environmental viewpoint is is very irresponsible. And these people are so against abortion and contraception, but won’t adopt children who are not wanted or are orphaned. That is one of my biggest beefs with the pro-lifers. The biggest thing is that they stick their noses in other women’s uteruses and tell them what to do there, and then they want nothing to do with helping provide homes for unwanted,abandoned or orphaned children. They are selfish hypocrites.
Yes…I did see the coyotes attacking little kids in CA. WHERE ARE THE PARENTS????????
9 May 2008, on 12:42 pm
Yeah, I recently expressed a few thoughts on the anti-pill idiots at my blog
Another point about these Duggar people is that there is no way each child is bonding with the parents…all their time must be taken up working and cleaning.
9 May 2008, on 12:42 pm
Thanks for watching, everybody, and please remember to spay or neuter your fundies.
9 May 2008, on 1:00 pm
“It’s a vagina not a clown car!”
Every time I see this woman that quote comes to mind.
This is incredibly irresponsible behavior on a lot of levels. There’s nothing praise worthy about these idiots. Although they do make an excellent BAD example.
9 May 2008, on 1:02 pm
What a freakshow. I don’t know how her clowncar-uterus hasn’t given out yet - no, scratch that, “Thanks Modern Medicine!”, and I don’t want to think about what will become of her female offspring. Will they become Quiverfull, too? Will Arkansas’ public health system shudder or break under the weight of such unsustainable clown-car reproduction?
9 May 2008, on 1:08 pm
Ourlady of Perpetual Motion
Ask and ye shall receive.
biggest thing is that they stick their noses in other women’s uteruses
It’s a shame that Mr. Duggar wasn’t doing exactly this to Mrs. Duggar. There’d be no Duggarettes.
9 May 2008, on 1:28 pm
HA! XD
That’s excellent Spirula! Made me LOL
Here’s another one from the Gallery of the Absurd
9 May 2008, on 1:33 pm
Who didn’t see this coming.
You know, my hemorrhoids flared up recently. Time to find a mirror. For all I know I’m sitting Our Lady of the Blessed Anus.
9 May 2008, on 1:34 pm
OPM,
Cool but creepy in several ways.
9 May 2008, on 1:52 pm
“Lipton said he believes the Virgin Mary protected him from further injury when the motorcycle slid out from underneath him.”
Probably the helmet I assume he was wearing was a really good idea, too.
Re: Duggars — JEEEZE lady, tie the tubes already.
The reason Xtianity once upon a time encouraged people to pump out as many kids as possible was because of high infant mortality in the ancient world and trying to ensure at least a few of your offspring would make it to breeding age themselves, not to mention free agricultural labor for tending your land once they’re old enough to walk and hold basic farming implements. It might’ve been adaptive at one point in history, but it ain’t anymore.
An ex-Hindu, Indian atheist friend of mine used to complain about Hindi women who remain chaste until they get married; “That rule in India was created when Indians were commonly married off at 12-13 years of age, i.e. when they naturally hit puberty anyway”; That some women were waiting well into their 30s and even 40s and keeping to the traditional “no sex until marriage” rule drove him nuts, as to him it made no sense; It was actually part of his motivation for coming to America to study physics in graduate school instead of staying in India. He was actually a very funny guy and had a lot more luck with American women once he got here.
9 May 2008, on 2:06 pm
At least the boys in the family have chores now. I got the impression from reading previous articles about the Duggars that the girls pretty much had to serve the boys. I don’t know though- you let a girl cut the grass or change a tire, she may get all uppity and close down her uterus later in life, instead of spitting out child labor units.
Love the clown car quote and pics! Hadn’t heard that one-made me LOL!
But seriously, this IS so irresponsible, for the reasons already mentioned. I guess it’s just as well they don’t adopt outside their gene pool. Imagine the culture shock for a kid who had previous life experience, then had to adjust to that nightmare.
9 May 2008, on 2:42 pm
Thanks for the update, Star. What still pisses me off the most about these parents is that none of their children gets to be a child!
As andrea points out, they have no time to bond with their parents because they’re always working. No time to bond with other kids or just to have fun as kids - because they’re always working.
I notice also that this article doesn’t mention what the first one did, that every new baby is given over to one of the older children to rear, in fact forcing each kid to do the parenting for their parents. All Ma and Pa Duggar have to do is supervise their built-in slave labor, and get it on bareback all they want, knowing full well they won’t have to do the work of rearing another child.
In addition, they homeschool all their children, thus ensuring little or no interference with their indoctrination. What a crime! (Yes, I know it isn’t really, but “crying shame” just doesn’t seem harsh enough.)
Shame on you, Michelle and Jim Bob, for your selfish exploitation of the system and your own offspring.
Karen, the “jurisdiction swap” occurred for one of the episodes of the Discovery Health (TM) show (at whose instigation, we don’t know; maybe it wasn’t the Duggars’ idea but the producers’), so it seems to me that business as usual is still the girls doing “girl” chores and the boys doing “boy’s.”
9 May 2008, on 2:57 pm
Man, I bet she’s all stretched out…
9 May 2008, on 3:10 pm
It’s certainly not about kids or family… it’s completely about subjugation of the wife. Barefoot and pregnant indeed. Male Duggars certainly feels himself King Stud of Watercooler Mountain, I’ll bet.
9 May 2008, on 3:12 pm
It�s certainly not about kids or family� it�s completely about subjugation of the wife.
Bingo.
9 May 2008, on 3:13 pm
The guy’s name is Jim Bob? This is a spoof, right?
Back in those palmy biblical days she probably would have died during birth 1 or 2.
9 May 2008, on 3:14 pm
It would surprise me if any of these kids have more than one or two kids of their own, if they even would want kids after all this slavery.
9 May 2008, on 3:15 pm
This is a spoof, right?
Orzo, I wish I could say it is, but it’s for real. Unfortunately.
9 May 2008, on 3:22 pm
I think it might also be biblically sound for ol’ Jim Bob to start filling up his daughters’ vehicles once they join that monthly circus. What? Aw, c’mon, I can’t be the only one who thought that?
Now, for her next trick, let’s see all the chil’run get back in!
9 May 2008, on 3:33 pm
“‘The success in a family is first off, a love for God, and secondly, treating each other like you want to be treated,’ Jim Bob Duggar said.”
So, if you want to be treated like you don’t love Gob, how does that work? Seriously, when hearing that all eighteen are and will be homeschooled, is anybody else thinking…School Shooting?
9 May 2008, on 4:09 pm
treating each other like you want to be treated,
So, if you like to be abused or whatever then it’s okay to abuse others and do whatever? Maybe that is why there is so much abuse in fundie families.
9 May 2008, on 4:12 pm
eriously, when hearing that all eighteen are and will be homeschooled, is anybody else thinking�School Shooting?
These are the kind of people who give homeschooling a bad name. There are many atheist, secularists, and people who are just sick of the public school systems, or who live in school districts where schools are dangerous or lacking in quality of education so choose to educate their children at home. I think the problem with fundie families who homeschool is that they seclude them from the real world, while normal homeschooling kids are very involved in community sports, and other activities. And these fundie kids would be weirdos even if they went to public school since that is the way they are being raised…like dogs being bred. Then they would have the added problem of being “persecuted” and bullied for their strangeness.
There are a lot more screwed up kids who commit shootings because of a bullied situation at public school combined with fucked up home life.
9 May 2008, on 4:26 pm
Our poor Earth is suffering from an overpopulation problem. We could support 6 billion people when 5 billion of them lived in mud huts, but when every one wants to drive a car and sleep under air-conditioning, we have a severe overpopulation problem.
The Duggars can have as big of a litter as they want, as long as they all promise to live in mud huts and grow all their own food on 1 acre. But as soon as they all want to drive cars and sleep under air-conditioning their actions are irresponsible and immoral.
9 May 2008, on 4:37 pm
Okay, taking bets on which of the Duggar mind-slaves (oh, I mean “children”) will be the first to rebel and write a hilarious tell-all book about the repressive “jurisdiction” training, Dad’s collection of porn, and how they managed to sneak pot in the house without mom stealing it first so she could “check out” next time Dad wants to add to the “quiverful.”
9 May 2008, on 6:01 pm
Listen to this dipshit from Wisconsin…
un-fucking-believable
Hear from Matt Sande, Pro-Life Wisconsin’s Legislative Director, explaining PLW’s opposition to all forms of contraception during a legislative hearing on Compassionate Care for Rape Victims
9 May 2008, on 6:11 pm
^ Ryan, my bet’s on Joy-Anna, currently age 10. She’s the ninth child to be born and hence the oldest of the three middle children, and in my family, we two middle children broke the mold. Plus, the other two middle children are male twins, and my bias tells me that the boys perceive more benefits from this sort of nuthattery and are thus less likely to rebel.
She’s also female, and the most scandalous tell-all-about-your-dysfunctional-family books tend to be written by women (or maybe not; I’m thinking mostly of Mommie Dearest). We’re often selected as more likely to want to “talk things out,” “unburden” ourselves, etc.
No, my method is definitely not scientific in any way.
Star, I was thinking of you when I mentioned the part about homeschooling! There are certainly many examples of why it can be a quality education for children; I suspect in this case it’s not…
9 May 2008, on 6:15 pm
Michelle Clown-Car had her 17th baby last August. Within 30 minutes she was talking about her eagerness to have another. *gag* And bibidy-BobDidMe-boo she’s preggers with number 18. *sigh*
It’s interesting to me that the homeschooling issue gets brought up in nearly every single article about the Duggars. Doesn’t mention if they are vegan or if they only wear 100% natural fibre clothing or any other potentially unusual practices. But the homeschooling gets a nod each time.
Why?
Because most people not only don’t homeschool but don’t know anyone who does or how those who do it can possibly stand to be around their children 24/7.
Homeschooling is much like atheism. Knowing a person who homeschools doesn’t tell you a damn thing about any other homeschooler.
“I’m an atheist.” Oh. You must be like Hitler. You are a moral relativist. What stops you from slitting your neighbors throat? Nup. Being an atheist means I don’t believe in god. “Atheist” doesn’t tell you anything else about me.
How many of us have heard that load of bollocks tossed our way?
“I’m a homeschooler.” Oh. You must be like the Duggars and have a million kids, isolate them socially, and indoctrinate them with your own beliefs. Nup. I am in charge of my child’s education. “Homeschooler” doesn’t tell you anything else about me.
Attaching the label “homeschooler” to somebody doesn’t tell you a thing about their beliefs about education, socialization, morality, or spirituality.
It is very tempting to want to say “there ought to be a law”. But that phrase should raise an immediate red flag in your mind. You don’t really want the government looking after you. Please tell me that you don’t! You really don’t want the government being your parent and making sure that you eat healthy, that you take the right vitamins, that you exercise every day, that you read the appropriate books, that you think the appropriate thoughts.
Voltaire is attributed with having said, ‘I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.’ The phrase itself deserves a close look. Freedoms should not be eliminated on the off chance that you won’t like what someone does with theirs.
Another thing to keep in mind, even if you get the laws passed that you want preventing the behavior you object to, what happens when the law turns on you and now the behavior you have chosen is outlawed to “protect” you. Will you back that law as staunchly as the one removing freedom you disapproved of from another?
Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.
9 May 2008, on 6:21 pm
Eve, here is a LINK for you to check out a typical day in the Duggar household’s homeschooling schedule.
Some definite flaws, but not the educational vacuum you seem to expect.
9 May 2008, on 6:21 pm
Re: # 26 - What an asshole! He’s spouting this idiocy at a Compassionate Care for Rape Victims hearing! I mean, the discussion isn’t even about the morality of a woman using contraception and/or abortion in the case of consensual sex; it’s about keeping options open for a woman who may have been impregnated against her will!
“Our concern has been against viewing a child as an accident,” the bastard spews. Of course not; he’d rather view a child as a punishment, and given where this discussion is occurring, he doesn’t care if a rape victim gets additionally punished by being forced to carry to term a pregnancy she had forced on her in the first place.
9 May 2008, on 6:27 pm
Eve, good sound logic there. I might also think that the oldest girl would be the rebel, but you’re probably right that it’s unlikely to be one of the boys because they probably are getting more “benifits” from the familial prison.
However, there is the possibility that Mrs. Duggar herself will go off the reservation–or completely snap from the years of continual post-partum depression.
9 May 2008, on 6:27 pm
Star, I was thinking of you when I mentioned the part about homeschooling! There are certainly many examples of why it can be a quality education for children; I suspect in this case it�s not�
Yep Eve, these asshats are going to ruin it for all homeschooling and Un-schooling families.
The more I think about the fucker in Wisconsin the madder I get! (#26)
9 May 2008, on 6:28 pm
However, there is the possibility that Mrs. Duggar herself will go off the reservation�or completely snap from the years of continual post-partum depression.
I wonder how many pregnancies it will take for Mrs Duggar’s uterus to rupture.
9 May 2008, on 6:29 pm
You know, I’m male, but even I know when to say enough is enough.
But as a male, I’m going to ask a really dumb question: Is it healthy for a woman to have 18+ children?
9 May 2008, on 6:46 pm
To James Robert and Michelle Duggar:
Our law firm is writing to you on the behalf of our client, the letter “J” (also written as “j”) of the Roman alphabet, currently in wide use in all Germanic and Romance languages, as well as numerous other language families. We are asking for you to CEASE AND DESIST using our client as the beginning letter of the names of your endless string of brood-slaves in your Arkansas compound. Your actions in naming seventeen of your offspring with our client at the start of their name has caused serious damage to his standing in the linguistic world. We had originally refrained from seeking damages against you because of the assumption that your limited intelligence would eventually exhaust the supply of named starting with “J.” However, the prevalence of Internet searches and clumsy application of the two different sounds that our client has a right to have allowed you to prolong your assault against our client.
We are particularly alarmed with the misuse of our client on such names as “Jinger” and “Johannah,” which make you seem incapable of correct spelling. Your use of hyphen names on “Joy-Anna” and “John-David” concern us that you will use further hyphens to create more compound names when you run out of legitimate ones.
We look forward to your swift response in this matter, or we will seek extensive damages against you.
Sincerely,
The Sesame Street Law Firm
(Brought to you by the letters J, G, and the Number 666)
P.S.: All correspondence with us must be in your real name, James Robert Duggar. If you refer to yourself as “Jim Bob,” we will double the amount of damages we are seeking.
9 May 2008, on 7:39 pm
1. Jinger with a “J”…LOL!!!
2. Jim Bob on having sex with Michelle after eighteen kids: “It’s remarkably easy. There’s no treading on that tire. It’s like throwing a hot dog down a hallway.” True quote.
3. How does Michelle birth? A hydraulic pump and a revolving door.
9 May 2008, on 8:27 pm
These people are simply insane.
And here’s a fun fact for you. Take a guess at how much they get each year through earned income credit. I don’t know the number, but people with two kids can get several thousand, so these idiots are probably getting twenty thousand a year of our taxes.
On a lighter note, the government shuts down “puppy mills.” And yet we for some reason make and exception for people mills.
9 May 2008, on 8:42 pm
Fiery, take a chill pill; I’m not bashing homeschoolers, as I happen to know one in particular who also did a stellar job (Stardust, in case you didn’t read her comment on it).
What I’m saying is that given everything that’s going on in the Duggar household, homeschooling their children is another way for the parents to make sure that very little outside interference gets in the way of what they’re teaching their kids. If these children attended public school, they might have a better chance (again, in this case) of being exposed to other people (especially kids) who might say, “Your parents what?! Are they insane?!”
If anything, the exposure they’re getting now from the media, in particular their TV show, may actually provide an “in” for this sort of influence - or it will simply reinforce the brainwashing even further. Since you obviously have never read any of my other comments on homeschooling, you don’t know that I would never take away anyone’s rights to do so, as it would negatively impact the people who are doing great jobs at it.
9 May 2008, on 9:20 pm
The problem I have with fundie homeschoolers like the Duggars is that they put the Babble into EVERYTHING. They probably even have Bibles in the bathrooms to read while they are taking a dump. They base everything on their mythology book, do not allow their children free exploration and that is supposed to be what homeschooling is supposed to be about. To escape the constraints of being forced to memorize, regurgitate and to be told there is only one way of doing something.
Fiery made some excellent points about the stereotyping of homeschoolers made by those who don’t know about or understand homeschooling (in this case I am not referring to you, Eve). This is something that my family had to deal with all the time. Our kids had to always defend it…no, we aren’t fundies, no we don’t have a dozen brothers and sisters, yes we get enough socialization outside the home, no we aren’t sheltered…etc.
The Duggars and people like them are just homeschooling to keep their kids brainwashed. Then they are encouraging others to homeschool their children in order to do the same thing…brainwashing for Jeebus and “the Word”.
I know that Fiery is a great homeschooling Mom and I do understand where she is coming from. Atheists and others who homeschool for non-relgious reasons are always having to defend it against stereotyping that we are some kind of freaks.
I am sure that is not what Eve was doing. In agreement with Eve, the Duggars ARE insane, and using homeschooling as indoctrination, and almost seems like they are trying to create their own little compound…a little “village” and that is REALLY WEIRD and totally fucked up.
9 May 2008, on 10:00 pm
18 kids. For Mr. Druggers, that’s gotta be like throwing a hot dog down a hallway.
Fucking disgusting and in an overpopulated world that already practices largely unsustainable lifestyles, fucking immoral.
9 May 2008, on 11:11 pm
Incidentally, my comment had less to do with homeschooling pro or con and more to do with exterminating the colony.
Still, I’ve yet to meet a homeschooled kid- fundie or otherwise, who wasn’t socially awkward and just a bit precious for my taste. Regardless of the shortcomings of our public school systems, removing kids from them will be the deathknell for them. And experiencing the wins and losses, the bumps and bruises- both physical and emotional, of the elementary and secondary is essential for a healthy adulthood.
Just saying…
10 May 2008, on 12:16 am
Unbelievable.
If ever there was a case for compulsory sterilisation this family is it. Of course they don’t realise (or don’t care) that the rest of the country supports them while they have become a breeding machine……
I wonder if I can divert my taxes away from this family…..
10 May 2008, on 12:24 am
Removing kids from them will be the deathknell for them.
I totally disagree on this one. Ivy League schools and most public and private universities love most homeschoolers and welcome them with open arms. Because most homeschoolers are more mature, more interested in learning and enthusiastic about life.
My kids all have degrees, had very active social lives, participated in sports, orchestras, involved in politics and community activities. They are far from being “nerds.” The secular hoomeschool kids we knew, and we knew lots of them, are all independent, can handle themselves in the company of adults and in adult discussions quite well. They can interact with people of all ages. Our daughter has a Masters from Yale where she went on a full scholarship. She did her undergrad at a top music conservatory in the world, out east. She now teaches at a university and is a member of a top symphony orchestra. She has been on her own since she was 18. Our oldest son has a degree in Physics (he also had a scholarship) and has lived in the city of Chicago for some time. Our middle son has been on his own for some time, is getting married in two weeks, has an art degree, and is now working on a degree in accounting. They all still love learning new things.
All public schools (as well as parochial schools that are set up the same way) are the only place in the world where people are herded together grouped by age, to jump at the sounds at buzzers and bells like fucking hamsters, all scurrying around doing the same thing at the same time. (We aren’t separated by age in our jobs, that would be pretty bizarre. School is not the real world, and do little to prepare students for the real world.) There IS no time for socialization..except for after school. Then people wonder why they turn to drugs, booze, etc and can’t handle college in a mature manner when they finally “escape”. Nope, school institutions are more like prisons than places of learning. Memorize, regurgitate so you can get those fake scores to make the schools look good. Do well so you can get those little gold stars and rewards for jumping through the proper hoops. One thing by allowing our kids to choose independent education was that it taught them they have options in life, and to be able to find other solutions and ways of doing things.
I now score the academic achievement exams for “factory-style education”. Too many of these the kids can’t even reguritate properly…they don’t do well on tests because they can’t remember the answers they memorized and then they don’t know or understand how to figure out the problems. It’s really sad because all of this bullshit is replacing REAL learning. No time for critical thinking when you spend most of the year memorizing for tests.
John Holt, homeschool advocate said that public schools were merely holding pens for maturity levels to rise. That’s how it is for the most parts, and many teachers feel like babysitters.
It seems since we are atheists and freethinkers that we would be more open-minded about homeschooling and to at least investigate more into it before condemning it. There are many, many secular homeschool groups and organizations that are excellent.
The Duggars are just insane. It really is as if they are trying to make their own little colony. And it can’t be healthy to have so many children. But I guess if her uterus explodes there are enough “moms” in the crowd to take over…they are doing the work now anyway. It’s such a shame these kids aren’t free to find themselves.
10 May 2008, on 1:32 am
Here’s a great one!
10 May 2008, on 2:04 am
Wow, it’s remarkable how much like fundies homeschool aficionados can sound.
Public schools are- or should be, the place for learning about life, about going somewhere for a set amount of time whether one wants to or not- like a job, learning how to respond to others who haven’t grasped boundaries yet- bullies and whatnot, a place to take one’s lumps and dish out a few as well, and, in theory- though admittedly not always in practice, it’s the great leveling of the playing field.
I really have no quibble with folks like you*, Star, opting to homeschool because, just by your participation here I’m certain that you gave you charges a well-rounded and realistic foundation and education. However, if opting out of a regulated- albeit imperfect, schools is available to those as unqualified and misguided as the Duggans or our old friend, Dani- and her ilk, disallowing the practice would be merely erring on the side of caution, what with there being a public school system already in place that we’re paying for.
The problem with our public schools, above and beyond even the disparities between low and high income districts, is the absence of participation by the parents, the lack of value placed on education in society as a whole- with the poster child for that devaluation sitting in the Oval Office as we speak. Abandoning the enterprise altogether is, quite frankly, a short-sighted, selfish cop out- a typically GOP way of thinking. The I’ll take care of mine and the rest can go to hell mentality that’s comes with the desiccation of one’s heart.
No that there’s anything wrong with homeschooling.
*- which always means the opposite.
10 May 2008, on 5:44 am
Thank you Stardust for restoring my opinion of home-schooling after it was almost ruined by the Duggars and my fundy cousin. I guess there are some people who are home-schooling for the right reason–freedom of thought–rather than to make their kids into Jesus-loving clones. (Actually, my cousin refers to Jesus as “JuJu” when talking to her kids. As in, “Come on, it’s time to talk to JuJu.” I’m not joking. I wish I were. It’s disgusting to see.)
10 May 2008, on 9:23 am
Public schools are- or should be, the place for learning about life, about going somewhere for a set amount of time whether one wants to or not- like a job,
In real life we have choices about where we want to work and what kind of jobs we want to do. Some of us opt for running our own businesses…homeschooling is just running one’s own education. Look at it from that perspective.
Homeschoolers/ independent educators learn how to manage their own time, and set their own guidelines and usually are much more motivated and organized to get things done.
Obviously homeschooling isn’t for everyone. It takes dedication and parents who will remain involved in providing a well-rounded education while keeping the kids involved in the outside world.
People like Dani, and the Duggars kids would be the ones to tell the teachers that science will get you nowhere, raise arguments for Jeebus in the classroom disrupting education for all other students and take time away from what they are trying to memorize in the classroom. MY experience is that fundies do not usually do very well in the public school system because they are always at odds because of what they are taught because of the fundie beliefs indoctrinated at home and church. They come to school and witness, want their god interjected in the classroom. They are a big distraction adding yet another challenge to the strained public school institutions.
And to take away the freedom to choose what type of education we want for our children is chipping away more of our individual rights.
Thank you Stardust for restoring my opinion of home-schooling after it was almost ruined by the Duggars and my fundy cousin.
You are welcome, Ryan. Most critics of homeschooling have never even investigated it and don’t understand how it benefits so many kids. I am glad we had the option. We live in an upper middle class community and what I described about public schools being “factory education” is the same no matter what neighborhood…except the schools in the nicer neighborhoods have more stuff like computers, etc…less crime, etc. Many people in high crime areas are now choosing the homeschool option. They should be able to retain that right for the good of their children. We can’t let fucktards like the Duggars ruin it for everyone else.
10 May 2008, on 9:44 am
The I’ll take care of mine and the rest can go to hell mentality that’s comes with the desiccation of one’s heart.
I forgot to respond to this. Homeschooling families still pay taxes to their local and state school systems even though their kids don’t attend. I pay very high school taxes in our yuppie area and therefore still supporting the school district and students in our community even though we do not have kids in those schools. People who do not have children still pay for those schools. Most homeschoolers are against school vouchers because most homeschoolers do not want any government interference, and don’t protest paying our taxes. So, that is a false assumption that we take care of our own and everyone else can go to hell. That is definitely NOT the case at all. We care about education in general, we just found a better option for our own family.
a place to take one’s lumps and dish out a few as well
This is not a civilized. Sounds more like Fight Club than an academic institution. You hit someone in the real world, you are arrested. This is where schools are like prisons. Our kids took courses at the local community college when in their early teens and fit in very well. No one hits, no one bullies, everyone goes to class, hangs with friends of various ages..even older adults…none of that bullshit high school nonsense that only goes on when you forcefully herd a bunch of people together.
10 May 2008, on 10:30 am
I am a public schoolteacher (librarian) and work with extremely dedicated, articulate, intelligent colleagues with DEGREES in science, art, the humanities, etc. They love teaching, care about kids and find ways to make the classroom an exciting environment where peer-interaction leads to inquiry-based learning. My colleagues pour out their own resources, own time, and patience to provide diverse learning environments where all kids are involved and ENGAGED in the lessons. The objective of ANY teaching environment should be to promote life-long learners. We are well aware of Bloom’s Taxonomy and teach at the higher levels of Bloom’s, not the bottom rung. YES, we are often hamstrung by federal, state and local regulations which take away some of the freedom we OUGHT to have to teach without bureaucratic nonsense. However, gifted teachers manage to finesse the system and still produce great results on achievement tests and in the kids’ personal lives. I DO NOT knock ALL homeschoolers but if you are going to go that route, you better know what the hell you are doing and be able to provide an enriched environment where kids are exposed to quality literature, chemistry, trigonometry, advanced placement courses, etc. Most homeschoolers are Bibble-based fundies who force-feed their kids a diet of weird science and Bible verses…ROTE MEMORIZATION…all day long. The parents are IGNORANT themselves and spread the IGNORANCE with glee. Yes, the kids DO turn out either as freaky as the parents or they rebel. I saw an interview with the Duggars where the girls were asked what they planned to be when they grew up. They all wanted to be MIDWIVES!!!!! Not surprising since all they have ever seen is mom’s clown car break water. The eldest son is the only one that they will encourage to go to college…to law school. Again, I have no problem with homeschooling as long as the parents themselves KNOW how to educate which is typically NOT the case. In most cases, fundie homeschooling is absolute child abuse and creepy brainwashing.
10 May 2008, on 10:44 am
However, gifted teachers manage to finesse the system and still produce great results on achievement tests and in the kids� personal lives. I DO NOT knock ALL homeschoolers but if you are going to go that route, you better know what the hell you are doing and be able to provide an enriched environment where kids are exposed to quality literature, chemistry, trigonometry, advanced placement courses, etc.
Barbie, first of all, I am sure you are a good and dedicated teacher, one of the better ones judging by the way you express yourself here. And I am sure parents appreciate what you do.
Our kids did go to public school for half of their education. The boys through junior high, and a short while in high school. Our daughter didn’t finish junior high even though she was in the honors program (which just means rewarded with more busy work), and she never set foot in high school. But she was tutoring English and Biology at the community college at age 14. I did not have even a Bachelors yet when doing this (I went back for my Bachelors and on for my Masters to inspire them to do the same). Present the material, provide resources and they will learn if they are motivated. It’s up to the child. Even in a public school setting, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. Whether at home, or at school, a student will only be successful if the parents are involved and dedicated to their kid’s education.
In the public schools the problem is that we can’t choose what teachers our kids are going to get, and we ran across far too many teachers who don’t know what they are doing or just plain didn’t give a shit, and even the students find errors in the information the teachers give. Some teachers were even abusive, a big bully and we had many run-ins with these teachers.
On the other hand, we encountered several awesome teachers who the kids loved, then when those teachers became frustrated with the administration, they quit! The ones who stay are forced to waste time preparing kids for the academic achievement tests that I score and find utterly ridiculous. You have to really score these things and see the rubrics to know how dumb and waste of time they are. It’s a shame that kids are judged by these crappy tests.
most homeschoolers are Bibble-based fundies who force-feed their kids a diet of weird science and Bible verses�ROTE MEMORIZATION�all day long.
This isn’t true. While there are many nutty religious homeschoolers who keep their kids like little Borg, there are many, many who go the secular un-schooling route, and their kids receive even a wider more rounded education than the schools can possibly provide. We traveled a lot with our kids and SHOWED them the places in the history books, not just read about them. Can’t do that when you are holed up in a classroom all day. Nothing better than first hand experience and observing.
As for the rote memorization, that is unfortunately what the public school has become with these damned tests like I score. I was a teacher for awhile and could no longer do this. I want to teach, not feed information to be regurgitated so they spew out the right answers in order to play a game for the school to get more state funding…to keep playing their games. It’s idealistic of me, but I would love to see the schools get back to reading, writing, and math, science and stop testing the kids to death and allow the teachers to do what they went to school to do. Most student teachers are also idealistic, thinking they are going to make a difference, and the system drains the life out of them. I tip my hat to those who hang in there and stick with it. Most kids will always go to public or parochial school and would be nice for those kids sake if we could fix the system and make it better. I didn’t have time to wait around for that to happen with our kids….and they thank us still today, now that they are grown, for giving them this option.
10 May 2008, on 10:57 am
Why does the shrill “You can’t be a well-adjusted adult without a public school education!!1!” sound so very much like the shrill “You can’t be a good, moral person without a belief in God!!1!” that we always hear?
Fundie my ass.
Hey, all you young folks who are insufficiently heterosexual and school is a living hell for you? Tough titties, I guess.
10 May 2008, on 11:04 am
^^ Good points, Andrea.
I wish more stories and attention was given to secular homeschooling or families who are not religious freakos. The news media is always negative, and hate when people get sucked into believing just what the media feeds them.
Quote:
Unschoolers have been admitted to most universities (including Ivy League schools). The article Homeschooling: Back to the Future? states that “in the absence of a transcript or high school diploma, applicants can submit samples or a portfolio of their work, letters of recommendation, and CLEP and Stanford Achievement Test scores.” Some universities consider unschoolers to be an asset because they tend to love learning, be self-motivated, and know what they want to get out of their college experience. According to Johnathan Reider, an admissions officer at Stanford university, speaking of home educated students in general, “The distinguishing factor is intellectual vitality. These kids have it, and everything they do is responding to it
10 May 2008, on 11:05 am
And I’m sorry but these Duggar people freak me out. They all look the same. What, a female can’t be pretty with shoulder-length hair?
Split ends are the true evil.
10 May 2008, on 11:09 am
And I’m sorry but these Duggar people freak me out. They all look the same.
Just like the Fundie Mormon compound they just broke up. The government does have a responsibility to step in on these cases. This is just whackadoo.
10 May 2008, on 11:37 am
And another point I want to make about the question of parents being “qualified” to teach their kids. They are our responsibility from birth…we teach them the first years of their life when development is quite rapid and those are the years that will form their personalities and temperaments. Whether in public school, or at home, parents teach their children much more than teachers do. Teachers and the schools consider parents competent enough to tutor hours and hours of homework each night and weekends. They consider parents qualified enough to volunteer in classrooms as teacher helpers to tutor kids in various subjects. We must remember that most parents have had at least a high school education and should know much more than the children they are teaching at home. The ones with higher education still may not be very familiar with certain subjects, just like English teachers still suck at math. Homeschoolers then find another person to tutor that subject. Most of the difference between teachers and parents is that teachers are certified in crowd control and teaching a group of children and how to manage a classroom. That is not necessary for homeschoolers. Not being certified doesn’t mean parents don’t have a brain. (But the ones who are “highlighted” in the news are the freaky ones. Gawd forbid they promote something positive that encourages people to think for themselves.)
10 May 2008, on 12:04 pm
Andrea,
Both points sound the same because they deal in absolutes. Life is much more complex.
Not all homeschooling is alike. Education is not a monolithic construct. There are variants and different interpretations.
However….
Fundie homeschooling IS very frightening.
10 May 2008, on 12:07 pm
Fundie homeschooling IS very frightening.
Yes indeed!
Even though we homeschooled (independent study I rather call it), for our kids high school education, we still keep up with what is going on with the public schools, and are concerned with the quality of education and also with keeping religion OUT of the schools where it doesn’t belong. If all these crazy fundies went to school…eeeeghads! Dealing with parents in general is not easy, but dealing with fundie parents is a nightmare.
10 May 2008, on 1:11 pm
If the school-aged Duggar kids all went off to school for the day, that would leave Momma Duggar home alone to care for the youngest children all by her lonesome. She wouldn’t know what to do. That’s why they homeschool.
10 May 2008, on 1:24 pm
Homeschooling is fine, if folks like Star are doing the schooling. However, as often as not- more often probably, it’s not the well-qualified, in love with learning folks who are doing it. Until it can be somehow established that every child removed from school is actually getting the type of ieducation that will prepare he or she to compete in the real world, then we should probably stop it altogether.
Star, of course you continue to pay taxes- so do people with no kids or kids grown up or kids going to magnet or private schools. The selfish part I was getting at is depriving the school system both of your kids and of an involved, intelligent parent who might have been able to make a difference in improving the system- by volunteering, making noise at council meetings, maybe running for the schoolboard, etc.
For all your anecdotal evidence of homeschooling success, I can offer up as many- or more, examples that say the opposite. Obviously, it won’t be resolved that way. Seeing as homeschooling is unregulated and lousy with fundies, I just think there’s a better way. Plus, there are many families where it’s just not fiscally possible for one parent to be home to do the instruction, no matter how much they’d like to. In that sense, it’s a little elitist. I know, you have to make sacrifices to do it but there are some families where it just can’t be done.
For Andrea, when parents get all germophobic with their little ones- wiping everything in sight with antibacterial this and that, overusing antibiotics for normal illnesses, the child’s immune system never gets the chance to grow strong and healthy. Similarly, depriving the child of normal social interaction hinders their ability to deal with the real world- and the people in it, later in life. Yes, tough things can happen when you put a bunch of children together- they can be horribly cruel. I’ve been both the bullied- until I grew, and the bully, just briefly, until I grasped empathy. I dealt with failure- usually at behavioral tasks, success- at academics, and both, depending on which day it was- in physical activities. I was rejected and embraced, ostracized and championed- sometimes all in the span of a schoolday. And all of it was, in theory, refereed to keep any of it from getting too out of hand. Yes, I know there are cases where it does go too far and that’s why we need to fix the school system and not abandon it.
10 May 2008, on 2:00 pm
The selfish part I was getting at is depriving the school system both of your kids and of an involved, intelligent parent who might have been able to make a difference in improving the system- by volunteering, making noise at council meetings, maybe running for the schoolboard, etc.
Until you have kids in the school system and have to deal with the administration and educational bullshit, you will never understand. If you have ever tried to reason with a school administrator or school board, you will be pulling your hair out. We got sick of it and decided to find an alternative. There is no way to reason with a bull-headed school administration…just ask any teacher. Parents have even more of a difficult time. We have been there. Our choice to allow our children to leave was not made carelessly. We were FED UP.
And more often than not, homeschoolers fair just as well, if not better academically than public school children. I do not think we need to go communistic and take the freedom away how we want to educate our children. Check out what universities say about homeschoolers…they are glad to have them because they are so enthusiastic about learning, and are more mature and know where they want to go with their college career.
depriving the child of normal social interaction hinders their ability to deal with the real world-
Homeschooling is not depriving kids from normal interaction in the real world. In fact it actually involves them more in the real world than you think. They interact with people of all ages. Homeschool kids can have a conversation with an adult. They do not see adults as the “enemy”. They learn to deal with situations and are able to communicate far better than kids cooped up in school all day. Most homeschool kids can handle responsibility, take care of their own matters like planning their own appointments, taking care of their own personal business, and have jobs, etc. Most homeschoolers, even many of the fundies are not sheltered as you say they are. And they are not afraid of the outside world since they are already in it.
Plus, there are many families where it’s just not fiscally possible for one parent to be home to do the instruction, no matter how much they’d like to. In that sense, it’s a little elitist. I know, you have to make sacrifices to do it but there are some families where it just can’t be done.
And I had stated above that homeschooling isn’t feasible for everyone. I was fortunate to be able to stay home with our kids. I sacrificed material stuff to make time. I know there are families where that just can’t be done. BUT I know families from low income areas who I met through homeschooling groups where the parents work opposite shifts just so one is with the kids all the time so they don’t have to send their kids to a terrible school environment and lousy quality of education. The kids have a better chance of escaping the poverty in which they live because the parents take the education into their own hands…and I admire them for that.
I know there are cases where it does go too far and that�s why we need to fix the school system and not abandon it.
And that is where I agree with you, but I wasn’t going to try to fix it at the sacrifice of our kids education and development. I seriously doubt it can be fixed unless there is a major overhaul, stop the nonsense testing, get to real teaching and allow the kids to develop critical thinking skills and give them a chance to explore. When teachers try this and deviate from the “curriculum” they are reprimanded and told to stick with the crappy planned program or leave. Many good teachers take the second option and go work in the corporate world instead, unfortunately.
10 May 2008, on 2:08 pm
Seeing as homeschooling is unregulated and lousy with fundies,
Oh..and homeschooling is regulated in most states…there are guidelines and requirements of the subject matter we must be covering. And the state retains the right to check up on families if they feel it necessary. Some states require that the homeschoolers take the same standardized achievement exams as the regular school kids, and they usually do fine with those and don’t need the hours of drilling that kids get in school.
Another point I want to make that is to get into colleges and universities, homeschoolers have to take the same college entrance exams, write the same essays, and meet the same standards as everyone else. Most homeschoolers perform quite well on the ACT and SAT exams.
I hope people get over the generalizations and prejudices towards those who choose a different educational path for their children and stop letting the media paint the picture of all homeschoolers as religious idiots.
10 May 2008, on 2:44 pm
Dayna Martin: Common Unschooling Questions Answered
She also talks about parents who are single, or where both parents work and manage to unschool their kids (seems like the seculars like to use the term unschooling rather than homeschooling…doesn’t matter what it’s called.) Fundies should pay attention to what she says that homeschooling is supposed to be. It’s not about programming kids with a bunch of Babble memorization and propaganda.
10 May 2008, on 3:48 pm
Whew! I didn’t mean to open the can of homeschooling worms…
Which is fine. Threads often take on lives of their own! My last comment on the topic is that as our population grows, alternative schooling and teaching methods may be the wave of the future in terms of trying to offer the best education possible to the most children possible, including those who need additional and/or specialized attention.
And in a genius segue, if I may say so myself, that brings me back to the post! Population explosion benefits no one, especially children, stressing available resources and diminishing our ability to deal with them as individuals. How does Mrs. Duggar even remember all her kids’ names? My mom had four of us, and was constantly mixing us up when calling or talking to us. Does she make them walk around with nametags on?
I realize that in other communities individuality is not as important as conformity (that doesn’t sound right; my analogy meter’s off), but historically the development of oneself as an individual has been an important part of Western civilization, for better or for worse. There’s nothing wrong with having a sense of oneself as a member of a community and being willing to contribute to the common good, but even that goes out the window when there are simply too many people.
10 May 2008, on 4:12 pm
Population explosion benefits no one, especially children, stressing available resources and diminishing our ability to deal with them as individuals.
One of the reasons for our decision to allow our kids out of the high school system is that there were 4,500 kids in their high school. Classes were very overcrowded. And now that our community population has exploded, we now have FOUR high schools with 4,000 in each of them. We have about a dozen grade schools full to capacity in some, overflowing in others. It takes forever to get out of town to go to work in the mornings because of so many cheese wagons on the road stopping to pick up kids.
I don’t know how people who have large families and send their kids to public school afford the clothing, book fees, gym fees, lunches, transportation costs, activity fees, etc.etc. In our district the required base fees are $800 per child up to three children ($2400 max) each year just for general fees…activities, lunches etc. are all extras. Our taxes basically just pay teacher salaries and building costs and maintenance.
10 May 2008, on 10:31 pm
I like the term “independent study” better than homeschooling because of the fundie connotations of the latter. I have no problems with secular homeschooling at all if guidelines and standards are met. However, I do believe that my graduate degrees, education school training, professional evaluations, professional development, access to and knowledge about teaching resources, my bilingualism, life experiences and late, late, late, nights lesson planning bring more to my students than mere “crowd control”. I never went into teaching to be a bouncer or a babysitter. The system does stink but you learn to bloom where you are planted. I would even be presumptuous enough to say that I have more to offer as an educator than someone with a high school diploma. Perhaps I have worked too hard to get to where I am and it has not been an easy road…not at all. Sorry about the rant but the conversation is too good!!!
10 May 2008, on 10:49 pm
Perhaps I have worked too hard to get to where I am and it has not been an easy road�not at all. Sorry about the rant but the conversation is too good!!!
Barbie,and it’s good to know that there are concerned and dedicated teachers in the school systems. You have much to offer kids. We have experienced too many who do not care, who were teaching wrong information, who could not teach trigonometry if their life depended on it (many parents complained about this one math teacher and it did no good). We had a teacher tell us that kids don’t need to know how to spell…that is what spell-checker is for! Our daughter brought home a US Government test where a couple answers were marked right that were clearly wrong and when we pointed it out to the teacher (who also taught P.E.) he said “what are you whining about, she passed!” We said we want her to do more than pass…we want her to learn the correct information. This is a Blue Ribbon school district, mind you. It was for academic reasons we allowed our kids to leave the public school system. Once they left there, they really took off.
When I was doing my undergrad as an English major, the majority of students were Education majors. I went to a fairly large state university here in Illinois. In many of my classes, when we would go around the room and introduce ourselves and say what our major was and talked about what we wanted to do with it, only a couple of these people said they wanted to make a difference in education. Most said they were becoming teachers because they want holidays and summers off.
And some said they wouldn’t have to work very hard and just had to “babysit” them all day then go home. Well, that is just very sad and unfair to the children.
But yes, conversation is good. We are not the enemies of public school just because those of us who choose another education path are supporters of education, but we recognize that there are many problems with the system. And we just want what is best for our own kids and do what we feel is best for them but that doesn’t mean we don’t want better for other kids, too. Like you say, most people are going to send their kids to school and if they deserve to have good teachers in good environments. Not places to be bullied or to be “endured”.
10 May 2008, on 11:57 pm
Anyone remember that old ‘tongue twister’: You know…”Try repeating real fast”:
“Rubber baby buggie bumpers”?
I guess, considering the Duggar “fuckers”!…we could convert that to…
“Duggar baby buggar fuckers”…
NO?
Then…How ’bout: “Duggar buggar baby fuckers”?
Or…
“Baby Duggar fucker buggars”?…Duggar fucker buggar babys?
Rubber Duggar buggar fuckers?
Rubber Baby buggar fuckers…Aaah…that’s the ticket!
What’s that, GifSters?…
“Buggar off, fucker Chuck?”
11 May 2008, on 12:03 am
ChuckA…My husband and I were going through trying to say those ten time fast. LOL!
Rubber Duggar buggar fuckers?
Rubber Duggar buggar fuckers?
Rubber Duggar buggar fuckers?
Rubber Duggar buggar fuckers?
Rubber Duggar buggar fuckers?
ChuckA, this Duggar story reminds me of an exchange you will probably remember between Groucho and one of his contestants on “You Bet Your Life”
Groucho: “Why do you have so many children? That’s a big responsibility and a big burden.”
Contestant: “Well because I love my children and I think that’s our purpose here on Earth, and I love my husband.”
Groucho: ” I love cigars too, but I take it out of my mouth once in awhile.”
11 May 2008, on 1:05 am
Okay, I’m tired of talking about homeschooling. I think I’ve spewed every single thought ever to enter my brain about the subject and some that never even made it there. All that’s missing are the anecdotes about my sexual history vis a vis homeschooling- which is seriously impeded by an insufficient wardrobe on the girl’s part in the form of tartan plaid skirts…but that’s neither here nor there.
I’ve been told that, were someone to wrap a rubber band real tight around the top of Jim Bob’s ballsack, those little fuckers would just drop right off in a couple of days. For Michelle, I’m thinking a pantyload of crazy glue.
11 May 2008, on 1:39 am
Yeah, Stardust, RE…
Groucho: ” I love cigars too, but I take it out of my mouth once in awhile.”
YES!…I DO remember that. How appropriate, indeed!
Classic Groucho!
OT, of course…
As you might guess; I went to YouTube to see if I could find that clip…no luck; but this one, I think, is a good example of just how unexpectedly hilarious that show was, with some rather ‘peculiar’ guests.
“YOU BET YOUR LIFE - Groucho Marx (1955) - Albert Hall”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T-OkqqyfkU&feature=related
11 May 2008, on 2:41 am
ChuckA, the reason you can’t find that moment from You Bet Your Life is that it’s a TV Urban Legend. Here’s the entry on Snopes:
http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/grouchocigar.asp
11 May 2008, on 9:07 am
For Michelle, I’m thinking a pantyload of crazy glue.
LOL!
I would like to know how her uterus doesn’t fall out or rupture. One day it might happen.
I think they shouldn’t have the tax exempt status just because they are producing their own congregation.
11 May 2008, on 9:10 am
Ryan, thanks for the Urban Legends link. I guess I was caught up in the myth…it still is a funny joke, though!
What Groucho really said was to a female contestant about her being one of 17 kids:
Groucho: “How does your father feel about this rather startling turn of events? Is he happy or just dazed?”
Female Contestant: “Oh, my daddy loves children.
Groucho: I love pancakes too, but I don’t have closets full of them…
That’s cleaner, but still funny
11 May 2008, on 1:14 pm
Stardust?…
Never having been a fan of cigars, even when I WAS a smoker, I must say I like Groucho’s pancake comparison even better.
Even the image of someone having a “closet full of kids” is funny…
perhaps, abusively funny?
A little “Visiting the Duggars” scene?…
[Mrs. Duggars]:
“Yes…by all means, hang up your coat in our hall closet. It’s down the hall, on the left.
Ummm…pay no to attention to all the kids “hanging out” in there…you know…
next to the cartons of pancake mix!
Oh, and by the way….We ARE having pancakes for dinner!”
We’re running a little low on syrup, however.
11 May 2008, on 7:02 pm
How do they prevent themselves from accidentally stepping on or sitting on one of their kids–I mean look at that picture–they have offspring lettering the w