Buddha Shakes Things Up With a Birthday Quake
12 May 2008 by Karen
May 8 is celebrated as the Buddha’s birthday, and the smiling fat man sucker-punched China’s Sichuan province with an earthquake to highlight the occasion. In keeping with the Olympic Games, slated to begin in less than 100 days, one judge gave the quake a score of 7.5, while a second judge gave it a 7.8. It was felt as far away as Vietnam and Thailand. The death toll is near 9000, and climbing.
900 students were trapped under the rubble of one school, and at least five other schools were in ruin. A chemical plant in Shifang city had cratered, burying hundreds of people and spilling more than 80 tons of toxic liquid ammonia from the site.
Two girls were quoted by Xinhua [News] as saying they escaped because they had “run faster than others.” (Now that’s refreshingly honest; God didn’t save them, they just boogied faster than the others.)
The quake hit about 60 miles northwest of Chengdu - a city of 3.75 million - in the middle of the afternoon when classrooms and office towers were full. There were several smaller aftershocks, the U.S. Geological Survey said on its Web site.
While the Olympic venues weren’t affected, the quake struck at the heart of the Wolong Nature Reserve and panda breeding center, one of the last homes of the giant panda.
The good news is that the Chinese government has improved its response to disasters in the last few years, and the military’s rapid responders were quickly deployed. Also, with the new openness to foreigners and the press, word got out to the world very quickly, and wasn’t hidden or denied as in the case of the Tangshan earthquake, which the government at first denied even happened even though it has become known as the worst quake in history.
12 May 2008, on 7:36 pm
This is absolutely horrific. I can’t imagine how they even begin to sort through the mess. And once again, no god comes….but PEOPLE are coming to the rescue, and to clean up the mess, and bury the dead.
12 May 2008, on 7:47 pm
Watch the fundies run with this one.
12 May 2008, on 9:10 pm
PWNED!
12 May 2008, on 9:28 pm
It’s very simple.
China fuck Tibet long time.
Dalai Lama ask Buddha,
Lord of Dancing Tectonic Plates,
to fuck China back.
Besides, if our Gob liked China, he’d have given them a love of dairy products like normal folks.
12 May 2008, on 10:32 pm
HA! How come I can’t do stuff like that on my B-Day?
12 May 2008, on 11:05 pm
When Buddha sit around the house, he really sits around the globe. Buddha is so fat, when he play Dance Dance Revolution, he shake China!
12 May 2008, on 11:47 pm
I really don’t know why I get sore when people make light of Buddhism, but could care less if any other religion is insulted. I don’t live in a Buddhist country, don’t have a Buddhist upbringing, I don’t even know any Buddhists myself, nor do I consider myself one. Yet, still, a little touchy. It’s rather bizarre.
Anyone else have anything like that happen to them? Feeling as if you are affronted when people dare to question something that you don’t even really care too much about anyway? Just trying to see if I am going mad…
12 May 2008, on 11:55 pm
BTW, The Captain put it best about Buddhist theocrats: Fuck Tibet
13 May 2008, on 12:34 am
Man, I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be claiming allegiance with this Captain person. He’s a fucking idiot.
First of all, Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion.
Secondly, Tibet was a sovereign nation- whether or not you approve of their particular form of government- that the Chinese invaded(in 1949) and occupied for no real reason whatsoever except that they could.
Third, the Chinese imported ethnic Han Chinese to settle Tibet and threw- and continue to throw- any native Tibetan who objected to the occupation, to the communist ideals, or continued practicing the Tibetan Buddhism, into labor camps where they were tortured, starved, and worked to death.
Fourth, exactly what lack of brain power is required to imagine that Tibetans wanting their country back equates to racial separatism?
If I were this Cheeto-eating, Mom’s basement-living Captain in some imaginary army, I’d take that video down as fast as possible before everybody realizes what a douchebag he is.
13 May 2008, on 6:25 am
Captain Asshat, more like it.
13 May 2008, on 7:35 am
RDZ:
I think it’s past time for the Captain’s douchebaggery to be debatable.
I think your assessment of buddhism as more of a philosophy than a religion is accurate.
Asylum Seeker:
One of the things I’ve noticed about “normal” buddhists is that they don’t expect salvation. If they succeed they become nothing–sweeeeet! It was sad for me, to hear about the people in Sichuan province mourning the loss of their children at the crushed middle school. They lit candles and firecrackers, burned paper money and DID NOT say, “Thank you, GOB, I was spared! I’m so LUCKY!”
13 May 2008, on 8:30 am
Getting away from the Tibet debate for a moment, TWELVE THOUSAND people are now dead.
13 May 2008, on 8:47 am
Who is our resident “expert” on Buddhism? Eve? I thought one of our regular commenters knows a lot about the subject. I find Eastern Thought rather interesting.
Like any other religion, there are so many forms of Buddhism, as most of you already know. Some can get crazy just like the extremes in any religion. And I suppose it’s like any other religion where according to one’s needs and interpretation it can turn into any variety of Buddhism one wants, and more and more “flavors” of Buddhism form every day. Like the head honchos of all religions, Buddha never really clarifies what “true Buddhism” is. (Proving once again that people make the religions according to their own culture, traditions and beliefs that have been passed down generation to generation.)
Just a basic few variations are:
* Theravāda Buddhism, using Pāli as its scriptural language, is the dominant form of Buddhism in Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Sri Lanka, and Burma. Also the Dalit Buddhist movement in India (inspired by B. R. Ambedkar) practices Theravada.
* East Asian forms of Mahayana Buddhism that use scriptures in Chinese are dominant in most of China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Vietnam as well as within Chinese and Japanese communities within Indochina, Southeast Asia and the West.
* Tibetan Buddhism, using the Tibetan language, is found in Tibet, and the surrounding areas in India, Bhutan, Mongolia, Nepal, and the Russian Federation.
* Most Buddhist groups in the West are at least nominally affiliated to some eastern tradition listed above. An exception is the Friends of the Western Buddhist Order, though they can be considered Mahayanist in a broad sense.
To many, particularly in the west, to become a Buddha in everyday life means to live in complete harmony with the universe, and that also means that how the forces in the universe operate is directly linked to humans. I think that is why atheists are a bit more open to Buddhism than other religions, because we already understand our origins, and we know we were not “poofed” into existence by some god’s magical wand. And we aren’t “poofed” out of existence by some imaginary sky daddy.
13 May 2008, on 9:10 am
Well, 1st off, Tibet hasn’t been autonomous for centuries:
http://www.answers.com/topic/tibet
This is not to say they don’t deserve independence, but RDZ’s comment about Tibet being invaded around 1949 is way off.
2nd off, despite the rampant pseudo-mythology prevalent on the internet, Chan (Zen) Buddhism (brought to China via India, via Ta Mo) was & still is a humanistic philosophy. No end-times, no creator gods (there are scriptures that are vested w/supernatural idiocies by some of the off-shoots).
The Larger & Smaller vehicles have different paths. Large uses Buddha as a goal to reach, Lesser says beads, prayer, sutras, etc.
Eastern thought modalities don’t translate very well to Western thought, so while there’s some supernatural qualities (incremental thru time), a lot of comparisons fall flat.
Sorta like equating Eastern feudalism to Western feudalism.
13 May 2008, on 10:03 am
Well, okay, but 1949 was when the Chicoms moved in and set up shop. And when they started rounding up undesirables for the labor camps. And when they started shipping in ethnic Han to make the place good and Chinese.
13 May 2008, on 11:56 am
Well, when I went to check the fuck Tibet link last night, the vid didn’t work, and my Spybot feature kicked in, beginning a lengthy check of all my computer files! So I’m staying away from the Captain.
The devastation in China is heart-wrenching, especially when one realizes the number of children involved, as this quake happened in the middle of the school day.
13 May 2008, on 12:02 pm
Compared to the reactionary, brutal, sexist, feudal theocracy that used to exist in Tibet, the this-worldly Communist leadership is progressive. You can’t seriously call rule by reincarnation, along with the rest of the Buddhist religious hierarchy, to be a “philosophy.” While I obviously don’t support everything the socialists in China do, I support today’s Chinese crackdown in Tibet 100%.
I can see why many sympathize with retrograde Buddhist practices and rule by a Buddhist religious elite.
In the eyes of unhappy, drug-addicted liberals, Buddhism offers to wash away the liberal pain, the liberal anger, and the liberal depression by selling peace through trying to become a giant metaphysical zero. It is just another form of escapism through self-abnegation. Nothing is real, and nothing to get hung about, Strawberry fields forever! (Unless you destroy Buddhist this-worldly religious habits. Then there is outrage! LOL)
Added with a perverse urge to see anything discrete and concrete melt away into a formless whole, Buddhism can be quite irresistable. It is like heroin for those who prefer to obfuscate with nuance rather than accept the outcomes of logic, and Buddhism’s baroque complexity of pointless rules seems downright sexy for those who feel mean, closed-minded, and intolerant about calling a spade a spade.
Buddhism a religion, perhaps one with a philosophy of nihilism at its core. I’ll stick with science, technology, capitalism, democracy, and the American Way. Let’s live on this world, instead of trying to escape to another dimension like stoned fools.
13 May 2008, on 12:25 pm
The devastation in China is heart-wrenching, especially when one realizes the number of children involved, as this quake happened in the middle of the school day.
Karen, I was looking at photos of little newborn babies rescued from the rubble of a hospital. And so many people still trapped…and this is all getting lost in other arguments. This is irrelevant to political issues concerning Tibet. This is a terrible loss of thousands of human beings and much devastation.
13 May 2008, on 12:38 pm
I’m certainly no expert on Buddhism, by any means.
My personal ‘experience’ with anything RE Buddhist thought goes back to my longtime “New Age” years…very early 1970s through the 1980s.
The similarities of the ‘Western’ “New Age” beliefs with Buddhism are probably closer to the Tibetan form; which involves “past and future lives”, Karma, Chakras, Meditation, chanting, etc. The “Buddha”, of course, is not really in any way a god, as Western religion conceives of a god; but is more like an “avatar” teacher…a model…an IDEAL…or an ever evolving spiritual master, in a sense. In New Age parlance, [Edgar Cayce style] even Jesus is considered an avatar…more like a great teacher…even possibly, another lifetime of the Buddha entity. Edgar Cayce, in his so-called “readings” claimed that the “Jesus” Entity had some 30 lifetimes in the Earth Plane…a long, long, way away from the typical Xtian notion about the so-called Son of God, “Anointed One”, or “Christ”, the Messiah. In New Age ‘doctrine’, we’re ALL, for that matter, evolving “Christ Consciousness” Entities…with many lives on this and other planets, or dimensions.
Anyway, closer to this particular discussion…
One of my close friends in the 1970s, when I was living in a Chicago store front…a next door neighbor (gal) artist, was a member of a Japanese temple; believing a version of Buddhism which has no afterlife evolutionary concept; almost completely opposite of the Tibetan formulation.
Indeed, as Stardust’s brief research points out; Buddhism has very many, widely disparate, interpretations.
The one most drastic, if you will, difference between Buddhism and all the other…particularly, the “Abrahamic”…major religions is; that there are absolutely NO Creator gods involved. Quite different, in that regard, from Hinduism’s “Brahma” and endless plethora of gods. Hinduism, of course, DOES share SOME of the ideas contained in Buddhism; particularly the Tibetan form…with its rather austere, hierarchical, even tyrannical, Caste system, etc.
Indeed, Buddhism…having no real ‘gods’ involved…is one of the few religions, that an atheist might feel somewhat ‘comfortable’ subscribing to; at least in a somewhat philosophical, non-worshiping, non-dogmatic sense.
One Buddhist related concept which I particularly like, is related more to “Zen Buddhism”.
I’ve done, as an income supplement for many years, some part time commercial window washing (nothing dangerous…lots of long and short “pole work”, etc.); and I early on, when faced with an extensive number of plate glass windows on any particular commercial building, learned to forget about how many windows I had ahead of me…and instead; just focused completely on the one “in front of me”. I called it my “Zen approach” to manual labor.
Yeah…singular, mental concentration!
What1…”This is just a simulation”?
It makes the job SO much easier, that way. Sort of a “mind over matter” shtick?
Hmmm…as a old writer, describing one’s vast amount of work; one might declare:
“…and Zen I wrote!….”
13 May 2008, on 2:46 pm
Earthquakes scare the crap out of me. The Dominican Republic, where I grew up, is in an earthquake zone, and every tremor I went through would leave me unable to sleep for days. Although Dominican earthquakes aren’t usually the kind that open up fissures in the ground, I had nightmares about that happening, in which case, how do you escape? What can you do when the very earth under your feet, normally taken for granted if ever even thought about, suddenly behaves like Jell-O (TM)?
Stardust is so right when she says it will be people who make the difference in the aftermath of this quake in China. And no, I’m afraid I’m nowhere near being the resident GifS expert on Buddhism; I’m aware that in Western terms it’s more like a philosophy at core than a religion, but with many branches and varying actual practices.
J.H. Bowden, you don’t seem to get it, but since I’m deducing from your screed that you probably support our invasion of Iraq, I’m guessing that you have no problem with foreign countries arbitrarily invading other nations. Whatever Tibet’s existing government at the time, China had no business going in there in the first place, just like the US had no business going into Iraq on those ridiculous trumped-up reasons. Therefore, no matter what it does now, China abandoned any right to claim any kind of moral high ground on the subject - kind of like we did in regards to Iraq and, quite frankly, much of the rest of the Middle East as a result.
As for Buddhism being a Happy “High” Ground for angry, depressed, unhappy, drug-addicted liberals, it isn’t for me. I actually agree with you that some of Buddhist tenets seem too escapist and reality-ignoring for my taste, but I do admit that I know very little about the belief system and its offshoots at all, so I could be inaccurate in my conclusions. Given your pithy comments, I suppose you are an expert on the subject, so perhaps you could share your credentials with us to add some weight to your denigration of the philosophy/faith.
Oh, and be careful what you call me, ‘coz I’m certainly not an unhappy, depressed liberal; I may feel depressed on occasion because of the craphole this country’s rapidly sinking into deeper (by the way, are you able to afford a home of your own? I sure can’t), but at least I’m doing what I can about it in my own limited way. I’m neither sucking up to and kissing the asses of the greedy bastards currently in power, nor am I sitting around whining and twiddling my thumbs.
I am angry, though, and every time a neocon / Rethuglican / dominionist makes fun of my anger, I see what’s really behind his/her attempt at mockery: fear. Because angry people tend to get things done, especially when they channel that anger into icy resolve.
As for drug addiction, I leave that to unhappy, depressed, lying, sleazy Repiglickin’ mouthpieces like Rush Limbaugh.
13 May 2008, on 5:20 pm
Yeah, Eve, where exactly does Bowden get the idea that we liberals are unhappy or constantly in pain?
Seeing the flaws in one’s beloved home and striving to correct them, seeing- feeling in your gut- the suffering of others and going all out to alleviate it, and standing up to those who’s contribution to society consists of accumulating material wealth by any means necessary can be a bit depressing, it’s true. Tends to make us a little more serious and grim-faced about issues of substance.
Your ilk, on the other hand, seem content to bellow, sweat, and gesticulate about abstract religious and trumped up national security issues that play to the fears and primal patriotism of the uneducated- and which, after all the fuss, you don’t deliver on anyway.
Folks like you, Bowden, with the Republican toddler mentality of “Mine, mine, mine!” and the tantrumnal(new word) bloviations spewing forth from your almost universally bloated talking heads, do sometimes depress the hell out of me.
No one who knows anything about either Buddhism or the history of Tibet could describe the former as a religion and the latter’s self-governance as brutal. Never mind that whether it was or was not it wasn’t any of China’s business.
13 May 2008, on 5:45 pm
ok..my turn to rant
I am not taking any sides here, but I do get confused at times…people bitch and cry when others (bigger powers) don’t intervene and do something when people in another land are being brutalized, then when others do intervene and try to change things then they are still the bad guy. I agree that too often the more powerful “intervene” when we should not (and often for wrong reasons), and invading other countries under false pretenses and without justification is inexcusable.
Then there are times that good intentions are not welcome. People try to make a difference like in Myanmar where the good food being sent there is being taken away to military warehouses and the people being given spoiled food by their own country. Disgusting. What do we do about that? France was looked down upon for not giving enough, but they know where it will go and knew that the money would be wasted (not that I am a big fan of the Frenchies, but I can understand their reasoning in this one). In the stomachs of the military regime starving its own people is where all the good intentions are going. What do we do about these corrupt governments and military regimes? Look the other way? Isn’t not interfering actually the same as “mine mine mine”.. “leave me out of it, fight your own battles” as the helpless people suffer? What’s the solutions? Talking…that doesn’t seem to work with corrupt leaders in these impoverished and troubled nations. They don’t want our help, they don’t trust us, they don’t want to talk to us. But if we don’t help, then we are accused of being selfish…so wtf are we supposed to do? Then what really complicates everything is when some of our leaders have abused their power and military muscle. Then other countries don’t trust us. I am glad I am not at the helm trying to sort it all out.
As far as the inequality in the world…what’s the solution. All the world to become one big communistic society for fear that some might have more than others? (And even then those in power will always have more, always live like kings while “the people” have little.) Everything metered out to everyone in nice little bundles? Told where to live, how much we can have? I don’t like that idea because I like my life and the country I live in despite all of it’s flaws and problems. I like my materialistic “stuff”. Maybe I am misunderstanding the criticisms of materialism?
And overall, no one has a real plan of what we need to do to “strive” to correct any of these problems. Easy to sit here in blogland and debate it, argue, point fingers etc., but what does anyone really try to do…really? Myself included. Not a hell of a lot because where do you begin? And what’s the plan?
I think that is the frustrations of the “angry liberals”…we see a problem, and feel for people, and don’t know what to do, or how to do the right thing and maybe feel too much compassion for others? The conservatives seem to think “what the hell…pick yourself up by your bootstraps you bums!” Some people are trying and can’t, don’t know how, etc. Some are just lazy. It’s a trust issue, also in many cases.
As for international problems. we could do a lot more if governments in places that need help were not so corrupt, so uncaring about their own citizens. It’s not enough just for us to want things to be better in the trouble places on this planet, they have to want it for themselves. Same thing here on our own soil…what are we really doing to try to make things better? What are the people who need help doing to make things better for themselves? For one side to help, the other must be willing to accept help. Too often help is rejected. I have seen this myself in my own city and I just don’t understand it. That is where I am completely baffled.
13 May 2008, on 10:48 pm
Like their neighbors Myanmar/Burma.
China holds the distinction of being backwards when it comes to asking and accepting help for it’s internal problems. More a reason for myself to check labels and not BUY from them more than anything else. This is exactly what we can expect from a people who are afraid of and who do not recognize freedom of speech. Much like our own Evangelicals who would censor any such notification to the world or the news media that we need help. “We have Jesus” Say hal lay lou ya!! Shout it with joy!! Your problems won’t go away you just won’t give a damn after you’ve been assimilated into ??? What the fuck ever. Snicker.
As many of you know I live in the Sacramento/Bay area of Northern California.
Below is what we deal with and the results of earthquakes here.
The Loma Prieta earthquake, also known as the Quake of ‘89 and the World Series Quake, was a major earthquake that struck the San Francisco Bay Area of California on October 17, 1989 at 5:04 p.m. Caused by a slip along the San Andreas Fault, the earthquake lasted approximately 15 seconds and measured 6.9 on the moment magnitude scale (surface-wave magnitude 7.1).[1] The quake killed 67 people throughout northern California, injured 3,757 people and left more than 12,000 people homeless.[2]
The earthquake occurred during the warm up for the third game of the 1989 World Series, coincidentally featuring both of the Bay Area’s Major League Baseball teams, the Oakland Athletics and the San Francisco Giants. This was the first major earthquake in America to be broadcast on live television.
The biggest problem was getting to work the next couple of months. The Bay bridge had portions that had collapsed. (A new one is being built). What I’m getting at is this. In an area that is home to close to 9 Million people we have scientifically engineered and built our homes and bridges and infrastructure so that people do NOT die.
Ideology is the evil, lets change that. Religion, Politics, anywhere there is a proposal to do something let’s see if it is being carried out by people like you and I.
I have ben a first responder and a disaster housing housing insspector. I can tll you only this and that is. When it comes right down to it I have very rarely heard praise to god. Mostly I have been thanked. I was in New Orleans after Katrina. I helped a woman who had inherited her property. Her roof had blown clean off of her home and she was determined to go it alone without assistance. However I did my job and put her in for a mobile home. (I don’t know if it had too much formaldehyde).
Two weeks went by and from time to time I would see her and stop and just talk, let her know it would be all right. One day as I went by I saw a mobile home there and was astounded as this was the first one that had been delivered to this area. So I stopped and took some pics and here she comes with a smile bigger than you can believe. She told me then that this was the first time in her life that anyone had done anything kind for her. She started crying and I joined her for a short time.
Disasters are made up of such folks and China is not any different. The Chinese ideologies however are enforced at the end of a barrel of a gun.
13 May 2008, on 11:05 pm
Great story, Jimmer. Maybe that is all we can do is make a small difference in people’s lives.
More a reason for myself to check labels and not BUY from them more than anything else.
My husband and I are continuously looking for products that are NOT made in China. It’s a challenge and sort of a game for us now. We have managed to find some things. But we are disappointed that all of the products that were proudly once made here are made overseas. The quality of things suck. Things don’t last very long because there is no quality control overseas. Oh well, if it breaks faster, you buy sooner. That’s what they want. Unfortunately, the costs have not gone down as the quality has.
We need to start some kind of Made In America list.
Just went to the gas station to fill up tonight. $4.07 a gallon. BOooooooooooooooooo.
13 May 2008, on 11:17 pm
Buddhist theocrats and their sympathizers preach materialism and earthy pleasures do not matter, and then preach against materialism and pleasure. Really, if wealth was such an evil thing, and power corrupts, why all of the fuss? By their own teachings being powerless and impovershed leaves one in a blessed state of grace.
Logic isn’t a Buddhist strong suit.
13 May 2008, on 11:23 pm
Conservatives are generally happier than liberals because we don’t rely on government for personal fulfillment.
Here is an article from Pravda on the Hudson of all places if you don’t believe me.
13 May 2008, on 11:44 pm
Anyone here claim to be a Buddhist? Not me.
I don’t think that liberals are against wealth, just about how some people go about to obtain it. There is enough corruption to go around in the conservative and liberal camps.
Maybe conservatives are happier because they are better at ignoring problems?
13 May 2008, on 11:56 pm
Rant on!…dear Stardust.
I almost feel reluctant to comment further, in light of the awful tragedy RE the Earthquake. The following is more of a leftover reaction to some earlier comments from last night. I can’t really imagine the terrible suffering those poor people must be going through in China…and Myanmar.
Anyway…
I finally got around to checking out “Captain Awesome”.
[YouTube was doing repair work, when I first visited the video last night.]
Awesome? My Liberal ass!
More like, perhaps…Captain Ass-scum”?
And…where’s the “Blasphemy”; at least RE Buddhism?…That’s, I think, a peculiarly Western, Abrahamic taboo.
Ummm…J.H. Bowden?…You actually admire that fuckhead?
One thing he, and all the other “Liberal, Hippie haters” sure don’t seem to understand; like Bush, Ann Coulter, and the other Xtian Neocon fuckheads; is the foremost, and even primary Buddhist concept of “COMPASSION”.
To my thinking, “Compassionate Conservative” is an oxymoron.
And being a Liberal hating, Right Wing Conservative, totally selfish, materialistic Neocon type, is just being an arrogant…moron.
In other words…forget the ‘oxy’ part.
And to be sure…Judeo-Christians, as well as Muslims…considering their childish, blame everything on us poor humans, kiss the invisible Sky-Daddy’s ass tyrannies…
are not in the least about any real, MEANINGFUL understanding of the word Compassion.
So I guess I’ll have to own up to being a real old time, dyed in the wool…
“Bleeding Heart”…ummm…
PROGRESSIVE?
I mean…please, dear GifSters…
have some Compassion for me!
14 May 2008, on 1:36 am
chuckA
The conservatives are like the people who are informed of an accident on the freewa;y they know all about it but didn’t actually see it. Meanwhile the rest of us saw it and dealt with it. We motored on.
Meanwhile the conservatives and the progressives were besides themselves with what they should do. And as is typical they decided to do nothing.
Right Bowden? Or should I have said Absofuckinflutely nothing.?
PS don’t take me too seriously.
14 May 2008, on 6:30 am
Most conservatives ignore the problems like Scarlett Ohara “Tomorrow is another day” and tomorrow never comes. The debts build, they don’t bother to pay back, and live like there is no tomorrow. The common everyday conservatives rely on government programs and handouts just as much as liberals. I don’t see a difference. I can’t tell a conservative from a liberal in my yuppie neighborhood, except for when they start talking.
Most everybody does live like that…and go on with our daily lives, doin’ what we do. But at least most liberals acknowledge the problems and the reality of things. I know there is a lot of good here in the USA, and I do feel very fortunate to have been born here rather than say, Bangladesh, but we cannot deny the dark side of the US government, either. Most people I write to around the globe admit the flaws in their governments. Most conservatives are like Bush, smile and wave howdy at the camera and go eat some BBQ…and just fuggetaboutit. Most liberal politicians state the problems, smile and wave howdy, and at least try to seem like they are doing something even if they aren’t.
I don’t mind paying taxes to help people help themselves. I resent though that my husband and I are both having to work to pay the bills and a bigger and bigger chunk of it is taken out for ineffective programs while at the same time paying higher bills, enormous gasoline cost. If the programs work, I don’t mind supporting them…but many (if not most) are a waste of our hard-earned money. Many of these programs need to be re-evaluated and the bad ones weeded out. But people have been saying that for decades. People need to start focusing on their local politicians and who we elect at the local levels. Most of the time, myself included, don’t even know who these people are. The only way to weed out is from the roots.
14 May 2008, on 6:54 am
News update:
China state media: Some 26K people still buried
14 May 2008, on 7:46 am
Stardust:
NPR (as you probably know) had two of their people, Scott Simon and Melissa Block (sp?) in China when the earthquake hit. They have been reporting on it since it occurred.
One official (not chinese) who was interviewed said that the death toll would likely be much, much higher once they started finding complete villages gone. That very thing was talked about yesterday afternoon. One village, about 9K population, is completely buried by an avalanche of two mountains on either side of it. The devestation is incredible.
J.H. Bowden:
I think you like to stir things up; either that or you are incredibly stupid.
14 May 2008, on 7:55 am
I think you like to stir things up; either that or you are incredibly stupid.
democommie, I think it’s the first part. We can see by the way he uses and manipulates facts and language to antagonize, he is definitely not stupid. I think he is one of those who loves “debate”. We let him come and go because he is an atheist…and circle jerks can get to be kind of boring and he does liven things up around here when he comes a trollin’! That’s for sure! LOL! And when we have to defend our viewpoints, others become more informed …and we, ourselves might learn a few things from these debates, also. And our ratings always shoot up when things get a bit heated
So, we let some differences of opinon in as long as they aren’t fundies breaking comment policy and preachin’ Jeebus and telling us we are going to burn in hell.
The devastation in China is unimaginable. I have been reading the reports and watching the footage and I just can’t imagine being in the middle of all that. So many dead, wiped out by uncontrollable natural events. And no god comes. People come and do what they can. THOUSANDS of examples of how people perish when no people can get to them. The ones who are saved can thank the human beings who rescued them. No thanks to any imaginary sky daddies.
14 May 2008, on 10:25 am
Geeze…as if they don’t have enough problems.
China says troops rush to plug dangerous cracks in dam
14 May 2008, on 10:46 am
I’m definitely not trolling. My comments about Buddhists and their sympathizers are authentic. Buddhism makes Christianity look sane– at least Christians think there is a real world with real people in it.
Deep down, I know NONE of you want to defend serfdom, slavery, giving people the death penalty for masturbation, and rule by reincarnation. Well, this is the feudal, sexist, occultic cruelty that is Tibetan Buddhism. Fuck Tibet. The Chinese banned the cruel theocratic punishments, instituted secular education, abolished slavery, implemented hospitals instead of religious healing, and gave the vast religious land holdings to the peasants. The fascists that want to bring this stuff back deserve what the Chinese are cooking.
If someone wants to call me a materialist, I’m guilty as charged. You can call me a liberal in the Millian, not Marxist sense, since I view the relief of man’s estate as a noble thing. I stand for the free movement of goods, services, ideas, people, and information.
Progressive compassion is actually regressive. Gasoline taxes are regressive– here in Illinois we give the liberal God-State 57.9 cents on the dollar. In Chicago it is worse — add 12.75cents per dollar for Comrade Daley. Yet the Democrat media here blames businesses for the high prices, even though their profit margins are the same as other companies. Democrats are getting more than enough for Vito and Bruno in the road construction business, and yet they say we must keep the taxes to satisfy aesthetic environmental concerns of affluent liberals — some compassion.
Socialist security taxes are regressive and disproportionately hurt working people. S-Chip taxes are regressive and disproportionately hurt working people– and Comrade Pelosi wants me to pay for the healthcare of those making 80K a year. If I want to eat buckets of grease, further the “exploitation” of women by surfing porn, and play violent video games, it is of no business of the Democratic Party.
The Captain rules, btw.
14 May 2008, on 3:22 pm
I wonder if Israel was leveled on Christmas Eve by a giant earth quake in the mist of ethnically, and religiously cleansing say Lebanon of Christian’s what the reaction would be. You don’t have to literally think that there’s a meaningful connection between Burma which means Buddha (the Burmese Buddhist monks that China supplied the weapon’s against), And what China’s been doing to Tibetan, with the fact the region of conflict was biblical destroyed on the birthday this teacher. Weather or not you believe these things significant, the message is still there.
14 May 2008, on 4:52 pm
J.H. Bowden, a good slaveowner is nevertheless a slaveowner. An invading country, no matter what benefits it brings with it, is nevertheless an invading country. When a sovereign nation makes the decision to take over another sovereign nation, it better be prepared to take its knocks, ‘coz no matter how enlightened it thinks it is, or how much it’s doing for its captives, it still took another fucking sovereign nation over.
Are there times where the situation in a given country is so bad that another country should reach in? I think there is. I know many won’t agree, but I believe that we did the right thing in going into Afghanistan. However, maybe I’m wrong; things are now really bad there (I don’t know if they’re as bad as they were before we went in), and what do we do instead of seriously addressing the issue, taking advice from regional experts, and investing the proper resources to deal with it? We invade another sovereign country, one that was even in better shape overall than Afghanistan was, and which is now an acknowledged quagmire!
China is reaping the whirlwind with Tibet, as are we with Iraq. I actually don’t know historically how it approached its invasion of the Dolly House (no, I’m no huge fan of the Holey Llama, either); did it try to pressure the country to improve living conditions and civil rights abuses via diplomatic, economic, and financial routes first? Did it maintain good political relations so as to influence its government and people? You know, all those things the experts are advising us to do with Iran instead of just bombing it because all those other methods are just too complicated?
Saying that Tibet should kiss China’s feet for invading it is like the Pope insinuating that the indigenous peoples of the Americas should be grateful to the Catholic Church for “purifying” them when Europe conquered the New World. It runs counter to human psychology. When was the last time someone went ahead and made a decision for you without consulting you because it was “for your own good?” How did you feel then? Do you think it’s any different when large groups of individuals, like nations, do it to other groups?
In the end, China will do what it will do, but it won’t be like when that big earthquake hit and it denied to the outside world that the catastrophe had even happened. For better or worse, it’s opened its doors now and we can see a lot more of what it’s doing, and we can judge it. You say you’re for free flow in general; well, this is one aspect of it: your dirty laundry hung out for all to see, comment upon, and reacted to. And I must say I find your relish for what the Chinese must be “cooking up” for the protesters (or whatever they are) disturbing; do you also support torture, by any chance?
As for “progressive” = “regressive,” etc.: all I know is that economically and financially I’m worse off now that I was before, even though I myself haven’t backslid, or worsened, or been demoted at work, or injured myself, or anything like that. If anything, I’ve improved, in experience, influence, and knowledge.
But I still can’t afford my own home. Can you?
Smurfshoe, I’m sorry but I’m afraid I can’t understand you.
14 May 2008, on 5:23 pm
Smurfshoe, I’m sorry but I’m afraid I can’t understand you.
I couldn’t either. Glad I’m not the only one. I thought maybe it was just the rush of the workday why I couldn’t concentrate or something.
14 May 2008, on 6:02 pm
^ I wondered about that, Star! I can’t tell if s/he is trying to say that the Chinese earthquake and Myanmar cyclone are connected through Burmese Buddhist monks, or that the catastrophes are biblical predictions come true, or that one or the other or both occurred on someone’s birthday, or what!
In regards to your question about intervening in other countries’ affairs, I think it’s a really good one. When do we? And if the litmus test is catastrophic human crime like genocide, then shouldn’t we have gone into Darfur by now? Or Myanmar, if it turns out that what some people now suspect is true and the reason they don’t want relief workers in the nation is because they’re covering up a genocide?
And if China did go into Tibet to “help” them (I seem to recall charges of the Chinese forcing pregnant Tibetan women to have abortions, among other abuses, so I really don’t know), then shouldn’t they have given them their independence back by now?
14 May 2008, on 6:07 pm
“I am sick and tired of everyone telling me I’m confused! I wasn’t confused until people started telling me I was. I’m not confused… My name’s Butters. I’m eight years old, blood type O, and I’m bi-curious. And even that’s okay. Because if I’m bi-curious, and I’m somehow made from God, then I guess God must be a little bi-curious himself!”
-Butters
Im going to leave this message bored now beacause I have’nt read one thing worth thinking about and you guy’s have no understanding of what Buddhism is.
Example if you think Buddhism is about escape and getting high (as I keep reading)? Then try the one exercise that all buddhist do. Sit in a clean and quite room. No distraction ( no T.V. radio, can’t read either)! and just sit with you thoughts as they swim around your head, and feel completly the pain in your back and legs. Sit there for 5 or 10 minutes. You can’t do it for thirty seconds.
What do you do as soon as you open the door after your mindless day working for a home you can’t afford. You turn on the t.v. Internet and radio as soon as you open the door. Why to distract from the pain of knowing, and the suffering that causes. In truth as long as you have a roof over your head and food then your fine. If you think to much then you go crazy and butcher your whole family, parents too. As that Austrian man did today. Why because because he didn’t want them to know that his business had failed. Now they’ll never “know”, he used a axe.
I expect to be see a lot more of this barbarism. This endless war, and our government torturing “terrorist” are symptoms of a falling Empire. From now on it’s brutality as it’s rawest.
If you can turn off you thoughts it’s kind of fun to observe as this whole motha- U.S., world economy (planet) environment regurgitates our whole worthless human race back into the neitherspere, and Jesus the Christ, not the gardener comes down on a flying saucer to liberate the remaining spiritual hippies from the reptilian alien rulers (mostly White republicans, but Hilary’s a full blood). And then after 2012 we live harmony and bliss on a healthy planet because all the born Christian’s and religious Jihadist followed Pat robinson and Bush to hell.
Now you understand right? ~Namasta
14 May 2008, on 8:29 pm
I don’t understand smurfshoe either. O.o
14 May 2008, on 9:31 pm
smurfshoe…wtf is that jumble all about in #40?
An weird crazy intro, a supposed insult, a quickie lesson in meditation, another insult, references to Jeebus as some kind of horticulturalist coming down in a space ship…whatthefuckareyoutalking about?
14 May 2008, on 9:57 pm
Eve–
Many people of Tibet definitely kiss the feet of the Chinese. They’ve received secular schools, hospitals, and all of the concomitants of civilization. Rule by reincarnation does not grant sovereign legitimacy — in fact, it is ground for forfeiting it. In addition, China is never going to relinquish Tibet because of strategic concerns versus India.
In Tibet, disobedient serfs were punished by the theocrats with eye gouging, hot branding, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, mutilation, and amputation. The Chinese atheists are in the right making certain these fascist religious fanatics do not get back in power.
14 May 2008, on 11:26 pm
I do not own a home; I rent an apartment in Chicago. I do not expect the federal government to give me a home. Nor should it. As James Madison once stated,
“the government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.”
Not only are many federal programs unconstitutional. They never meet their professed goals — in fact, they create outcomes worse than the original problem that government was supposed to solve. Consider how ethanol subsidies, which are supposed to make us energy independent, are driving up the cost of food — another *regressive* result that disproportionately hurts working people, I might add.
Government intervention is responsible for a *lot* of our ills, from healthcare to education. However, thinking about a price floor, for example, is simple and banal. Consider the minimum wage. Just as we would make it more difficult for someone to sell a car by forcing them to sell it above market value, we don’t make people more employable by making their labor more expensive.
Against common sense, most modern people prefer the good-versus-evil drama of the oppressed worker versus the evil rich. (So much for nuance.) Take oil profits — we all know the difference between a profit and a profit margin, and considering the margins, there is nothing out of the ordinary happening with big oil. People also know businesses build taxes into the cost of their product — confiscatory taxes just get passed down to the consumers government in all its wisdom is trying to protect.
This is all common sense and not difficult to understand. But for those who feel like cogs lost in a machine, it is who you are, and not what you have to say, that seems to matter. For those who feel without power in the anarchy of capitalist modernity, the quest for meaning in a greater cause overrides the plain truths we clearly know. May I mention the case of Chinese atheists versus the Buddhist fundies in Tibet.
15 May 2008, on 6:40 am
Yes I can afford my rent control garden bungalow, I’ve been here 10 years, and I’m not leaving!!! Big government regulates the price against the market as it should, that to me is the purpose of government. You see a small amount of socialism can and is a beautiful thing.
In California the oil companies (Shell, Exon, ext.) pay no off shore oil drilling taxes as they do everywhere else. Swartzenager has a 32 million tax decifit. He came into office promising to be fiscally responsible. We are bankrupt. Why, because our federal government is owned by Oil and China!! ( and big business has giant tax loopholes). They’ll just continue to squeeze the middle class well the super rich walk. (1/3 of the cost of gas is speculation by energy traders, Government can and should regulate this!!).
Oh god, god-less China. My mistake for trying to have a esotiric discourse above in 36 and 40- in a rigid layman atheist website. Sorry but I just can’t see things said in such absolutist, rigid terms, such as “Fuck Tibet because they had a caste system”, I think there might be a little bit more to it than that.
We’ll I guess its good that you like China so much because they own you. They own our dollar, our economy, us. But they won’t be oppressing you with god speak, so it’s good right? And they certainly won’t be giving you any minuim wage, even better!! You people have know idea what your true interest are, let alone what’s happening on the other side of the globe.
But you do have one good point, “It’s not what you say but it’s what you do day in day out that truly matters” you were trying to say. I couldn’t agree more. Let’s just hope it’s more than being a mindless layman.
15 May 2008, on 7:56 am
J.H. Bowden:
The minimum wage argument, just to pick one, is simply b.s. Employers, given the option of paying their help less, will. The minimum wage was instituted in a time of strong labor unions. Now that unions have been emasculated (due in no small part to their own shortsightedness) the minimum wage is even more important.
15 May 2008, on 8:47 am
My mistake for trying to have a esotiric discourse above in 36 and 40- in a rigid layman atheist website. Sorry but I just can’t see things said in such absolutist, rigid terms, such as “Fuck Tibet” because they had a caste system?, I think there might be a little bit more to it than that.
smurfshoe…are you even reading who writes what? One person here has said “fuck Tibet” and that isn’t “36 and 40 whateverthefuckyouaretalkingabout”. If you are addressing certain people you need to clarify WHO you are addressing in your responses or else you sound extremely schizophrenic.
You people have know idea what your true interest are, let alone what’s happening on the other side of the globe.
Oh, and you who cannot even write a coherent sentence or spell properly is an expert on “the other side of the globe”?
15 May 2008, on 8:53 am
Oh…and by the way
State TV: China quake death toll could hit 50,000
15 May 2008, on 12:09 pm
J.H. Bowden said:
>>As James Madison once stated,
“the government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.”
And I’m sure that Herbert Hoover firmly believed that, too. Which is why the American people booted him out of office and voted for FDR.
15 May 2008, on 12:18 pm
J.H.:
“Not only are many federal programs unconstitutional. They never meet their professed goals — in fact, they create outcomes worse than the original problem that government was supposed to solve.”
That’s certainly true of the BATFE, which I wish Congress would disband.
“Consider how ethanol subsidies, which are supposed to make us energy independent, are driving up the cost of food — another *regressive* result that disproportionately hurts working people, I might add.”
Yes Ethanol IS a joke, and not a very good one.
Driving up the cost of corn has really hurt the poor, especially in Mexico.
The problem is our Gd@#*$! car-dependent culture in the USA. Yes, “Big Government” created the Highway system and road subsidies, but not because “We the People” wanted it, but because General Motors, Firestone, Standard Oil, et. al. wanted it, bought up and ripped out the light rail systems of many American cities, replacing them with gas-guzzling buses, etc. We got rid of walkable, livable communities in favor of a cartoonish drive-in suburban utopia that is very energy-wasteful and has no sustainable future.
Unaccountable Corporations AND “Big Government” collude together to maximize Corporate profit at the expense of the poor and middle classes.
There is no pristine, uncorrupted “Free Market Paradise” just like there’s no Heaven, no Valhalla, etc.
15 May 2008, on 1:07 pm
Yes, “Big Government” created the Highway system and road subsidies, but not because “We the People” wanted it, but because General Motors, Firestone, Standard Oil, et. al. wanted it,
Actually, people do want it. My father was elated back in the 60s when they finally put in the highways so he could get to his hometown in the mountains of North Carolina without having to drive around and around two-lane roads which took three times to get there as it does now.
And here where I live in a suburb southwest of Chicago, people demanded that I-355 tollroad be extended to meet I-80 even if it meant tearing down people’s homes, ranches, farms, etc. And the roads are not CLOGGED full of cars at all times of the day. Never saw anything like it. And the high gas prices don’t seem to be stopping people from driving on the roads that are made.
And it doesn’t stop people from driving with a lead foot, doesn’t stop people from speeding. Look how much gas it would save if people would accelerate slower, stay in the speed limits, and maybe car pool? Everybody bitches and complains but not willing to do anything themselves. They bitch but keep paying the gas prices for those SUVs.
We got rid of walkable, livable communities in favor of a cartoonish drive-in suburban utopia that is very energy-wasteful and has no sustainable future.
Yes, this is the big problem…we have isolated ourselves in little separate Yuppievilles. Poor public transportation if there is any. No way to get around but to drive.
15 May 2008, on 3:39 pm
J.H. Bowden: In addition, China is never going to relinquish Tibet because of strategic concerns versus India.
Like I said, China will do as it will do. You’re probably right that they won’t leave, but that doesn’t make their going in in the first place right, and that taints all their subsequent actions vis-a-vis Tibet. No matter how much we Americans love Thanksgiving, the original colonists’ treatment of the native peoples will continue to taint the holiday for a very long time.
You also seem to be basically saying that it’s OK for one nation to invade another because of “strategic concerns.” If that’s so, then why hasn’t the US taken over the Dominican Republic and Haiti because of strategic concerns versus Cuba? Especially back when it was supported - heck, some say practically run - by the USSR?
In fact, taking your point of view even further, why not simply cast all other considerations aside; say that the entire world represents a “strategic concern” for the US; and set about invading the whole globe? Surely, given your perspective, world domination in fact as well as in effect is the best strategy for us to bring enlightenment and progress to the earth.
Oh, wait…
Again, re: economics: I don’t want the government to give me my own home (although it would be nice; I deserve a free home as much as anyone else; I’ve worked hard, committed no crimes, helped others as much as possible, and paid all my taxes in all the time I’ve lived here in the US). But surely an economic climate that rewards my labor as it should, allows me to save enough money, and makes a potential home affordable enough would be far better than the present climate (even though I’m highly adaptable and continue to survive, even thrive despite adversity).
I know that such an economy has been possible in the past; several friends of mine had fathers who worked in blue-collar jobs, and yet nevertheless were able to save, buy, and pay off homes for themselves, families, and heirs. The pessimist in me says that eventually only the uber-rich will own anything at all, and the rest of us will live as serfs in a new feudal society, inhabiting and using resources only on the sufferance of the very wealthy, but the optimist says that there must be ways to improve the general lot of humanity, no matter what the obstacles.
And there’s no reason why we can’t try new and different things here in the US for everyone’s benefit. When the middle class is disappearing and the entire population seems to be polarizing into a huge poverty-stricken lower class and a tiny high class so rich they can’t possibly spend all their money in their own lifetimes, something’s wrong. I’ve seen it in the Dominican Republic and I’m seeing it here, and I never thought I’d see the day when the US resembled a third world nation more than its first world partners.