Ditching the crazies
31 May 2008 by Stardust It’s about time . . .
Obama quits Chicago church after long controversy
ABERDEEN, S.D. - Barack Obama said Saturday he has resigned his 20-year membership in the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago “with some sadness” in the aftermath of inflammatory remarks by his longtime pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, and more recent fiery remarks at the church by a visiting priest.
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Republican John McCain also has had his share of renouncing crazy-ass gob-botherers.
Earlier this month, McCain rejected endorsements from two influential but controversial televangelists, saying there is no place for their incendiary criticisms of other faiths.
McCain spurned the months-old endorsement of Texas preacher John Hagee after an audio recording surfaced in which the preacher said God sent Adolf Hitler to help Jews reach the promised land. McCain called the comment “crazy and unacceptable.”
Unfortunately, they continue to cling to the gob delusions and stand firm in that their “faith remains strong” and they “continue to pray” and talk to Jeebus every day. Ditching the crazies seems merely for protecting their political campaigns. BUT…at least they realize they must remain moderate, and they are trying to bring their sky daddy beliefs back to a personal level, which is refreshing.
Maybe now the trend of kissing crazy evangelical butt is coming to an end and we can focus on the real issues of this election?
31 May 2008, on 11:45 pm
Maybe now the trend of kissing crazy evangelical butt is coming to an end and we can focus on the real issues of this election?
AMEN TO THAT!
31 May 2008, on 11:56 pm
This is merely a cynical ploy by a deceitful politician with his back to the wall, alarmed by the likelihood of a shoo-in nomination fading away every time clips of Wright and Pfleger’s speeches are shown on TV. Obama belonged to Trinity for twenty-odd years and never found its ideology a problem until he ran for President. Anyone who honestly thinks that Obama will shed this belief system and become a freethinker or secualrist by simply resigning from the church organization is more deluded than any fundamentalist. Obama’s cozy relationship with Wright, Pfleger, Farrakhan and Bill Ayers IS one of the real issues of this election. You better come to grips with that fact before this self-absorbed Messiah wannabe lands in the White House.
1 June 2008, on 12:04 am
Anyone who honestly thinks that Obama will shed this belief system and become a freethinker or secualrist by simply resigning from the church organization is more deluded than any fundamentalist.
gkruz, if you see my last couple of paragraphs in the post, no…we all know they aren’t going to shed their god delusions. But ALL of the recent candidates do have god delusions, unfortunately. Even Hillary talks to Gob. All politicians are “self-absorbed” and they all will go to great lengths to win. They all say they talk to Gob. NO atheist/freethinker is going to be elected. That’s reality. So, we have to hope for a moderate Xian since there are no other choices.
I am disappointed it took Obama so long to ditch this church, and denounce his pastor. So, I agree…he decided it is “regretfully” the best decision for his political self-interest at this moment in time.
1 June 2008, on 12:15 am
Obama isn’t a moderate. Get the stardust out of your eyes and do your homework.
1 June 2008, on 12:23 am
grkuz.
You must not hang here very often or are new or you would know that I haven’t been an Obama supporter. I voted for Hillary and still hope for a miracle (indeed it would take one now). I have not been enthused about Obama since the very beginning. I was waiting for Obama to at least denounce that crazyass church, which he finally did.
However, if it is between continuing the Bush legacy I cannot vote for that. My hopes are not too great with Obama, and I do not have delusions of grandeur and big change like many liberals, but my options are limited.
Get the cobwebs out of your brain.
1 June 2008, on 12:31 am
grkuz, Instead of saying he is remaining moderate, I should have said at least he understands the Constitution and Separation of Church and State. So far I don’t see him talking about wanting to tear down that wall like Fuckabee would like to do.
1 June 2008, on 1:16 am
“Earlier this month, McCain rejected endorsements from two influential but controversial televangelists, saying there is no place for their incendiary criticisms of other faiths.”
I find it ironic that McCain would reject the endorsements on these grounds–incendiary criticisms of other faiths are probably the ONLY reasonable thing being said by these nut-cases (even if their basis for these criticism is basically “my gawd can kick your gawds’ ass).
Of course Obama has taken this move because it is politically expedient. During an election, that is about the ONLY reason any politician takes any stand or action on any issue. And yes, Stardust, I do agree that it is moderately refreshing to realize that the public is not as accepting of extreme religious fucktardery as it used to be–a small victory, but a win for the “good guys” none the less.
1 June 2008, on 1:40 am
In a way, I am disappointed by Obama’s action. This church has been part of his life and his community for twenty years and he should have told anyone who had a problem with the pastor’s sometimes inflammatory statements to piss up a rope.
Having a problem with this church and it’s minister(s) simply because of it being a church at all is fine. I would expect any secularist or atheist to feel the same.
However, and this is where the political expediency comes in, those who object to the kind of church it is, those who delight in plastering the internet with one “shocking” statement from that pulpit after another, those who cry “black separatism” succeed only in broadcasting their racism for all to see.
You don’t have to like Wright or the other dude, they just shouldn’t be seen as some insurmountable impediment to his electability.
Unfortunately, Obama depends on the votes of some of those same unenlightened whites to propel him past McCain in November…
…fuck it, I’m too tired to bring it home…
1 June 2008, on 5:28 am
I remember way back at the start of this craziness when Amanda Marcotte and Melissa McEwan were targeted by Bill “I support pedophiles” Donohue, that the John Edwards campaign stood by Marcotte and McEwan, despite what was being bandied about in the press. Amanda Marcotte, who can write some pretty incendiary things, received the full brunt of the attack primarily because she was an atheist. John Edwards, who I supported, stuck by the two and defended their right to both speak and work on his campaign. It wasn’t until the media attention became so overwhelming that both voluntarily left the campaign so as not to detract from Edward’s message.
At the time, I was furious because Amanda’s atheism was made the target and her criticisms of Catholic doctrine were deemed hateful bigotry. Those charges weren’t coming from Bill “Go ahead and fuck the little boy, I’ll cover for you” Donohue, they were coming from so called “progressives” on Democratic Underground and Daily Kos. That was the end of my donations to the Democratic party.
Obama still has connections to Jim Wallis. McCain still has connections to Tony Perkins. Clinton still has connections to Doug Coe. So, here’s your choice for president. Political Operative Jesus, Rambo Jesus, or Corporate Jesus. Choose.
1 June 2008, on 7:15 am
I’m of the “It’s for public appearances.” school of thought. He may have dumped his current crop of crazies [Obama] but it was only to pull the soap box out from under the more annoying crazies who took advantage of the spot light he happened to bring with him.
Wait a while, he’ll have his PR people shoot some vid of him at his new church in a week or two.
As for mcstain he just does whatever he’s told. I doubt he’s completely coherent about what’s even going on around him most of the time.
His camp could have signed him up for the $oc and he’d be telling the world what a devout … “uh… psst hey buddy, what do I believe in again? Uh yeah… never mind…” what a devout god fobber he is.
I doubt he’d mind being a $oc cultist once he realized how much money was involved.
Meanwhile he’ll still have his apocalypse play-dates with hagee and that other douche that can’t wait for everyone to die. By gord’s hand of course. [because that makes it all ok]
1 June 2008, on 8:21 am
That is an excellent way to sum it up. This is what we are left with and I am totally unimpressed. Now it’s just which party you want to give a chance to see if they can unravel the huge-ass tangled yarn ball. I am not wanting to continue down the path we have been on, a downward slope to total disaster.
I have had a couple of my Democratic friends and family members say that they are disappointed in this move by Obama because to them, this shows his lack of strength, and his lack of loyalty to his lifelong friends. He should not have allowed his church to become the spotlight…this is what happens when we allow religion to come to the forefront and control things. It must be kept at the mythology temples and while it is important to know a candidate’s religious beliefs, it is if they can still be fair while holding their own personal beliefs and not let it interfere in the running of a secular, multi-cultural and diverse nation.
If Obama really disagreed with the leaders of that church, if they really do not represent his own values, then why did it take so long to leave it? Why didn’t he leave it BEFORE running for Senator, long before even thinking about the presidency? That’s what I would like to know.
Maybe he was sleeping in church for the last 20 years like many people do who goes through the motions of “tradition”…
Maybe his saying that he talks to Jeebus, talks to Gawd etc is all not true either and just saying it to win over the fundies. Politics is such a shitty circus.
I am still waiting to hear WHAT it is he is going to change and how. That way it will make me feel better for having to vote for him in November…because no way in Hades am I going to vote for Bush’s Mini-Me clone.
1 June 2008, on 2:33 pm
Todd @ 9 - well put. It is odd how some people who consider themselves liberal and progressive are so concerned with being tolerant to groups who are intolerant and oppressive, even going so far as to defend hate mongers and child molesters. Some people seem to have their finger on the trigger of the “you’re a racist bigot!” gun, just waiting for any “unenlightened whites” (in raindogzilla’s usual accusatory ways). And without any sence of irony, they take a long shot at the innocent in the name of protecting the real oppressors and dividers or perhaps just to seem hip. I can’t help but wonder what someone talking of “enlightenment” as a virtue would be doing on an aethiest forum… Maybe going around with some Obama books to sheppard the “unenlightened” to the contemporary messiah would be a better use of their time…
I am still waiting for an apology for being called racist by raindogzilla. In the name of freedom and justice, we should not hastily and without evidence label others as racist. Doing so waters down what society considers racism and thus protects the real racists. RDZ had written that anyone who took issue with pastor wright must be uncomfortable with the idea of someone with a bit darker skin tone in the oval office. So… does this mean that Obama is uncomfortable with that concept??? Or is the Obama campaign ready to come right out and say loudly that this is just pure political positioning. Its too darn bad that Obama is chickenshit to have any more debates. Too bad that most of Obama’s young supporters had no idea what his stances on such things as pouring tons of money into nuclear energy were before Oprah loaded em up on a bus. I’ve never really heard an Obama supporter say why they support him over clinton. Nothing related to any actual issue that is…
1 June 2008, on 2:39 pm
Not all churches are created equal. They all suck, but some suck a whole lot more than others. Obama sure found himself a crappy church. For many of us “unenlighened” folks, (even if our skin is not light colored - sorry to dissappoint you RDZ) this will prove to be too little too late. Stardust - dont just hope for a miracle, take action. There are things you can do to try and help Clinton get the nomination that she has already won in the popular vote and will likely increase that margin. Letters, emails, phonecalls.. you know all that stuff the the Obama campaign pays for with special interest (see - exelon) money that Clinton supporters donate their time for.
1 June 2008, on 7:30 pm
OJD, if you’ve got a problem with Obama’s church that goes beyond the fact that it’s a church at all, that Obama is religious at all, then what is it?
What separates Obama’s church from the one down the block or the one with the coffee/juice bar in the foyer that looks like a movie theater?
If it involves the phrase “black separatism“, then you’ve labeled yourself as racist, not me. If you go on to toss up the false analogy about the theoretical outrage over a hypothetical group of whites banding together in support of some mythical white pride, then you’re headed off into Richard Butler/David Duke territory and I’ve got no time for you.
The facts of the matter, OJD, are that an oppressed group- be it unified by race, creed, or orientation, often needs to band together to survive- and/or thrive- in a society that, while having made improvements over the last forty-odd years, is by no means color blind today.
I use “enlightenment” in it’s strictest sense, as the process of ridding one’s mind- or otherwise having it freed- of illogical and irrational beliefs and prejudices. You know, like in the Enlightenment?
You get no apology for stepping into an insult or for fitting a premise- not unless you’d like these two tiny violins playing whatever the fuck it is that violins play as accompaniment to pity. You also get no points for the following:
Nuclear energy is, after the initial investment of building the plants, cheap, clean, safe, and essentially perpetual. France has gotten 80% of it’s electrical power from nuclear for decades without an accident of any sort. They’ve also at least partially resolved the issue of waste which, with the development of next generation reactors that can be powered by that waste, won’t be an issue much longer anyway. Having worked myself in the industry and having family that have supervised and overseen the installation of such facilities both here and in France and the UK, I have no doubts about a well-regulated nuclear power system freeing us from the need for coal of any sort. That Obama seems to get this is hardly a strike against him. No matter which way we eventually get off of foreign oil for our transportation, the huge and growing demand for electricity must be dealt with as well. That’s just common sense.
Second, Hilary has won no such popular vote unless you count the disqualified Michigan- where Obama wasn’t even on the ballot!- and Florida- where he campaigned not at all- votes.
See, they make these things called rules and you don’t get rewarded for breaking them. Fuck Hilary Clinton, her sense of self-entitlement, and her placing herself above the good of the party.
1 June 2008, on 8:43 pm
I’ll give you one. Hillary Clinton voted for the IWR. And she has never admitted fault for that.
I knew back in 2003 that the whole case was bogus. I knew back in 2003 that Saddam Hussein’s military was decimated after the Iran-Iraq war and the Gulf war. I knew back in 2003 that the reason that the inspectors weren’t finding anything was because there was nothing there. I knew back in back in 2003 that Colin Powell sold what little credibility he had down the river when he held up pictures of semi truck trailers and called them biological weapons labs. There is no fucking way on this planet that I will ever support Hillary Clinton as a nominee for the Democratic Party. She’s as guilty as G.W. Bush for this idiotic war that has caused the death of thousands of innocent Iraqis and American servicemen. She chose the political expedient vote to strengthen her so called foreign policy credentials for this election. Fuck her and her fucking DLC Republican husband who spent his eight years in office gutting the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Fuck em both.
That’s not an endorsement for Obama, but he’s yet to piss me off, so he’s officially the lesser of two evils.
1 June 2008, on 11:39 pm
Obama admitted that if he had been in the senate at the time, given the same intelligence report that the senators at that time were given, he may well have voted for the resolution.
RDZ - I can understand how someone who personally profits from the nuclear energy industry such as yourself would think nuclear energy is a good investment for our country. The project in Ohio that you referred to in a past post, the one that you had to eat lunch with cheney during… well, according to the governmental reports on the project, the vitrification process failed (at least initially) and there is and will be uranium in a wide swath of groundwater for 20 more years at least. And all this after billions of taxpayer money spent. I would like to be optimistic that everyone involved did all they could to clean the site up, but even so I doubt that you would want yourself or your family to have to live nearby. Of course that was an old weapons manufacturing site, but I doubt you would take your family out to live by the yellowcake in colorado either.
It’s cute how you say “after the initial investment of building the plants” that nuclear energy is cheap. How convienient for someone in an industry to try and fool other people into disregarding the primary expense of the cycle! It would be like saying “after the initial investment of building windmills, wind energy is virtually free!” You see, for someone who gets taxpayer funded contracts this may be hard to grasp, but there is not an infinite amount of monay to invest in new energy infrastructure. Every penny spent on nuclear energy is a penny not spent on real clean renewables such as wind, solar, geothermal, tidal, etc… Of course, there would be no multi billion dollar contracts for engineers to manage unmanageable waste, but for most of us, it would be a much better deal in the long and short run.
These next generation reactors that the pro nuke crowd talks about are a drawing on paper with no living examples. The one up in scandanavia is overun in expenses, which is par for the course with what I like to call “the most expensive way to boil water ever invented”.
DONT LIE and tell people that there hasnt been an accident of any sort in frances nuclear power industry!
1981 - La Hague reprocessing plant, 1993 - subcooling accident in Paluel, 1990 at Fessenheim radioactive water spilled during refueling, 1991 failure of core cooling system at Belleville, 1992 two workers contaminated at Dampierre, flooding at Cattenom in 1986, Fire at St Alban in 1992, the list goes on and on - not to mention the near constant leakage of tritium contaminated water or the outright pouriong out of “accepetable levels” of radioactive contamination. Am I to assume that by “without an accident of any sort” you figured these were all things that you could just brush aside along with the multi billion dollar cost overrun budjets that have been iconic of the nuclear energy industry? Honestly, do you and your family go into the shadow of the Braidwood reactor and drink and bath in the water that runs out of the residents’ taps? Are you honestly trying to pass off the idea that as oil prices skyrocket the oil intensive building of new theoretical reactors is worthwhile? As for the recylcling of radioactive wastes, theres the proliferation issue. You hold up france as a model… what about their record on nuclear weapons testing??? So many acciendents waiting to happen, and so many nuclear proponents who dont live near reactors. Built on fault lines, in flood zones, terrorist targets, in areas prone to drought where the tremendous demand for cooling water could be undermined… there are so many reasons that nuclear energy is not a realistic solution to energy needs. Efficiency and conservation save money and actualy have impact. Of course, most of the pro nuke crowd industry insiders who just look past the obvious ties to the military and weapons manufacturing arent too concerned with effieciency so long as their salary looks like it is efficently rising…
Honestly I could go on and on about what I know about nuclear energy’s history and how it affects those of us who do not have a conflict of interests on the issue. I would invite anyone still reading and concerned about the future of groundwater resources, security, and our economy to do some independant research from as many different sources on this issue you can find.
As far as the trinity thing goes… Trinity violates an already generous tax code by endorsing a politician - not all churches do this. Pastor wright used bigoted language such as referring to Italians as “garlic noses”, as well as preaching separation along “racial” lines. How has Obama been opressed along these lines? Who hasnt been oppressed? Nobody should be held below a standard of obvious racism. You honestly think that Obama’s former church is a typical church? I doubt many churches workes Monica Lewinsky into their sermons…
Why do you have to say “unenlightened whites”? Do you not see the obvious racism in the way you talk? If you refuse to apologize for your False claims, so be it, but please, do not come online and spread lies that promote the industry that you are involved in. Believe it or not, there are people who work with their hands, with their body’s producing ready to eat food and protecting and adding conservation to our country’s resources who are offended by your falsely arrogant elitism. Waste not want not, work and think practical, dont lie, and dont try to pass off some corporate welfare scheme as a saving grace for our planet. It’s a joke that people would shun the burning of wood for heat nowadays and cheer for a billion dollar boiler that produces radioactive waste. the only thing thats virtually perpetual about the nuclear energy cycle is the halflifes of the waste. Koodos to you for helping pull the wool down over the striving armchair elisist sect of the democratic party.
Whats good for the party now? Clinton just expanded her popular vote lead by another 140,000, and the latest electoral college polls show Clinton doing far better against McCain in November.
1 June 2008, on 11:46 pm
Wow that was lengthy! thanks to anyone who took the time to read. Sorry for RDZ for telling the truth - for all I know you weren’t lieing, maybe you just didnt know the truth. I would like to remind everyone again of France’s record of nuclear weapons testing and the obvious connection between civilian and military nuclear operations. Now to get back tto learning all about how Uranium is mined, transported, milled and enriched, all of which demand tremendous amounts of electricity and diesel!
Not sure how some people figure that hillary is to the right of Obama… what with her more inclusive health care plan and all… Dont take it from me, apparently Im just a racist unenlightened white person (even though my skin tone is not light).
2 June 2008, on 1:00 am
Each of those minor incidents you listed pale- shit, they don’t even show up- in comparison to the deaths that can be attributed to coal whether by it’s mining on the miners themselves(cave-ins, gas leaks, black lung) and on the whole communities and water tables poisoned by ill-kept and breached waste pools- see eastern KY and WV. You’ll note that I stated a well-regulated industry, which would have to be created from the ground up as evidenced by the shoddy previous maintenance and regulation at places like Hanford and Davis Bessey. The incidents you mentioned could just as easily have happened with the generation of steam or at coal-burning electric plants.
You’ve essentially spat up the rubbish from the irrational extremes of the environmental movement that equates clean nuclear power with n-tests and weapons. For the record, I am not now and haven’t been involved in the industry since the Fernald project-(which left the aquifer uncorrupted and the land now reclaimed, being converted to a public park as we speak. I live within a mile of the place and all is well. A success all around by any standards)- wrapped and I could give a shit whether my relatives were gainfully employed or not if I thought for one second that that employment was hazardous to humanity. I also fully support solar, wind, and, where available, geothermal alternatives.
So, fuck off, dude, until you’ve educated yourself on the subject at hand and can discuss the science behind it- and not just regurgitate some podunk websites blather.
2 June 2008, on 5:34 am
One thing we forget when discussing the advantages of nuclear energy, or even renewables like wind and solar energy, are the facilities to produce and distribute the electricity which require energy to build and maintain. Mineral ores must be collected and processed to produce nuclear fuel. Alternative energy sources require materials, transportation, machines, etc. These processes either are directly powered by diesel and gasoline engines, or draw electricity from the power grid, which may be generated from fossil fuels. Windmills, nuclear power plants, solar power plants etc. don’t magically appear and maintain themselves.
Life cycle analyses assess the amount of energy consumed by these processes (given today’s mix of energy resources) and calculate, over the lifetime of a nuclear power plant, the amount of carbon dioxide saved (related to the amount of electricity produced by the plant) vs. the amount of carbon dioxide used (related to construction and fuel acquisition) is not a big savings.
In 2001, professors Jan Willem Storm van Leeuwen and Philip Smith released a study which argued that, though nuclear plants don’t produce any CO2 directly, the energy required for the rest of the nuclear fuel cycle (uranium mining, enrichment, transportation) and power plant life cycle (construction, maintenance, decommissioning) leads to significant carbon dioxide emissions, especially as usage of lower-grade uranium becomes necessary.
So, while nuclear power and other “renewable” sources of power seem “clean”…the getting there and maintenance [mining of uranium and the storing of waste, result in substantial amounts of carbon dioxide pollution] destroys habitats, produces CO2 emissions, damages the environment in secondary ways, and sort of puts us in a Catch-22…people don’t think about the massive amounts of fossil fuels still needed.
(I just got done scoring hundreds of essays on this topic so read a bunch of different viewpoints based on individual student research.)
2 June 2008, on 8:43 am
Well, here I am, late as usual.
I don’t think Clinton, McInsane or BarryO are any more XXXristian than I am. I doubt very much that they believe in any kind of GOD except, perhaps, Mammon. But they do use the schtick to get money and votes–fuck ‘em all, but especially McStain.
Hillary Clinton has demonstrated that she is interested in her own agenda–gaining the presidency–over anything else, including the good of this country. I don’t give a flying fuck who runs as a democrat, they will get my vote. If I had to vote for Hillary I would certainly want to do so on an empty stomach.
OJD:
You beat that anti-Obama drum really hard, I do think you have a problem with a black man running for president.
Nuclear power is not the problem. Corporate malfeasance and governmental “oversight” is the problem. I live within 10 miles of 3 different nukes AND a coal burner up here in Oswego, NY. As long as nothing melts we will get most of our radionuclides from polluted drinking water (the city’s intake is not all that far from some cooling tunnels). Nuclear energy is not evil (it’s what we get from the Sun), it’s just the profit motive that fucks it up.
2 June 2008, on 10:49 am
OJD and RDZ…
I’m REALLY not intending to join the argument; but I’ve commented on GifS quite awhile back RE Dr. Helen Caldicott’s (an Australian Medical Doc) lectures and books related to the dangers of Nuclear Power and as OJD commented:
“…the obvious ties to the military and weapons manufacturing…”. A serious concern, I contend, considering all the World’s stupidity connected with the batshit Armafuckin’ crowd. This country has, besides Russia, the largest, continually replenished supply of Nuclear…or “Nucular”, as the current fuckhead with his finger closest to the almighty destruct button would say…as well as every OTHER WMD ever thought up by Sado-Masochistic Earthlings.
Of course…”SHHH!”…don’t talk about how fucking nuts, and self-righteously privileged WE are in owning such an insane arsenal.
We ARE the good guys, of course; ROIT?
What fucking idiots we humans are, on this dinky little Blue Dot, “Island Earth”! I’m one Earthling who’s somewhat glad for NOT having dragged someone into this planetary insanity. No real wisdom involved, of course; it just didn’t happen. Ummm…FATE?
I’m reminded of a favorite Brazil ‘66 tune:
“Song of No Regrets”
Anyway, before I shut up…
or suddenly die of extensive, longtime exposure to interminable human bullshit?
OK, OK…SHEESH!…I’m smiling!
[As if you guys care?]
If anyone’s remotely interested in Caldicott’s views…check this Google video page for links to her various talks, etc…
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Dr.+Helen+Caldicott&hl=en&sitesearch=#
3 June 2008, on 11:01 pm
RDZ - “fuck off?” wow, you sound so educated… I’d like to point out to everyone reading who is being combative and directing violent language at others here… And im assuming youd send your children to work in a uranium mine over a coal mine? Dollar per dollar, even modernizing coal plants would be a better solution to building a bunch of nuclear plants. I was very clear in my comment, perhaps you should read it again. I state that finite funds would be better spent on real renewables than on nuclear corporate welfare. I called you out on a blatant lie when you said that no accidents of any sort had occurred. You should check your wording if you want to remain credible. I am very educated on the subject and am willing to discuss the science behind. Its too bad all you have to turn to are acusations and cheap combative use of explatives.
democommie - How has Hillary Clinton shown that she is “interested in her own agenda - gaining the presidency - ” more than any other candidate? I would like to reiterate my views on the issue of skin color and/ or human “races”. Skin color or other physical features that have traditionally been associated with the concept of “race” are poor indicators of genetic relatedness, oftentimes misleading. I have known twins who would have been grouped by people into different “races”. With a species so mobile as humans are, there always has been and always will be very little genetic isolation which would warrant a further classification. When you, democommie, accuse me of having a problem with a “black” man running for president, am I to assume that you mean Obama’s skin color alone? How silly would that be? Are you trying to insult me personally? The irony here is that if you saw me, you would feel awfully stupid for throwing such accusations my way. I base nothing on skin color, and I hope that you do not either. Does it make you feel like some sort of warrior for equality by throwing baseless accusations of racism around? Go ahead, give yourself a pat on the back and jump back on the media bandwagon of accusing anyone who has policy differences with the oppressed wealthy product of hawii’s private school system messiah (His Holyness Obama) of being a modern day grand wizard! Look up the definition of racism, it does not say “beating the anti Obama drum pretty hard”. You could go back and read all the reasons I have given on this wonderful forum for favoring Clinton over Obama. For your convienence… Nuclear energy is unsafe and ultimately lessens the availability of funding towards efficiency and real renewables. I believe that our country would be better off if everyone had healthcare. I believe that the democratic party will be hurt in the short term if obama is the candidate because he is not vetted and he will also hurt down ticket seats. In the long run, if Obama is elected, all the naive folks who jumped on the bandwagon will be let down and dissalusioned from the political process. Again, I would like to point out who always brings the pseudoscientific issue of “race” into the conversation. I could go around calling anyone who says something negative about clinton sexist, but I would rather talk about the issues.
Stardust and ChuckA bring up some good points. I refuse to be called an extremist for advocating energy conservation. The pro nuke crowd acts like it would inhibit growth, but that is simply not true. The energy industry would be the only one to take the hit, though that “hit” would be nothing to them. The nuclear industry has accumulated so much wealth by selling technology to China - which is the biggest source of “dual use” proliferation.
I would like to thank everyone who has kept the conversation civil and refrained from throwing out insults and violent hatespeech!
3 June 2008, on 11:37 pm
I like how Obama ends his speeches with “god bless you, and may god bless america” so glad to see that the democratic party is now the party of god.
4 June 2008, on 1:26 am
I like how Obama ends his speeches with �god bless you, and may god bless america� so glad to see that the democratic party is now the party of god.
My fundie Baptist relatives have switched parties because they believe Obama loves Jeebus so much and that is pretty much all they need. They don’t know where he stands on the issues and don’t care because he loves the Lawd and talks to him every night.
Hopefully Gawd won’t tell him to do something like invade Pakistan or some crazy thing.
One thing I hope for is that it’s all just bullshit with Obama just to get elected. And another thing I hope is that he will get to talking about the issues and go into more detail about what this change is he is going to bring, and how he is going to manage to bring people together. His plan is posted on his website, but in the campaign so far all we have heard is diversions about his pastor, things his wife has said, his lack of being in the military and all kinds of off-the-wall accusations that keep everyone distracted from the real issues that we need to be concerned with. The word “change” has been thrown around a lot this campaign and no one is stating exactly how they are going to perform that “miracle’. People act like he is going to walk into the White House with a glowing aura around him and he is going to magically change things. There is a huge mess to clean up and don’t think it can be fixed in four years. We can hope for better, but this “change” thing is just a weasel word to get the votes of people who he makes feel good with his empty promises of change and unity. I say empty because like I said, he has not expressed what he is going to change, how he is going to unify the nation, etc. I am a bit cynical because the Democratic Party regained control of the House of Representatives and the Democratic voting bloc has a 51 to 49 majority in the Senate and yet they have accomplished very, very little. We can only hope with a Democratic president, even Jeebus loving Obama, that things can at least start turning around. It’s going to take years to get us out of the mess we are in.
On Obama’s website there is a saying “I’m asking you to believe. Not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington, I’m asking you to believe in yours.” So if this magic change doesn’t happen will it be like the Xians say that we “didn’t have enough faith”?
I don’t want to see the Rethuglicans to continue the downward spiral we’ve been in, but not so certain Obama can pull us out of it. We can only hope he surrounds himself with intelligent people because he is indeed going to need a lot of help.
4 June 2008, on 1:44 am
I would like to thank everyone who has kept the conversation civil and refrained from throwing out insults and violent hatespeech!
OJD, I think these “debates” between us are helpful and interesting. Sometimes we learn a few things, sometimes we hear something and we change our minds about what we have been thinking. Sometimes we can convince people to see our viewpoints and why we think a certain way. In our own household we have those who disagree intensely about certain issues, but people will have a difference of opinions especially when it comes to politics and gets kind of heated at times when people are passionate about certain things.
I am mind-boggled that our die-hard Rethuglican relatives are voting Democratic in November now that Obama has won the nomination. He has wooed them and won them over with the Jeebus talk.
Check out Obama’s public statements of faith and politics“God is constantly present in our lives, and this presence is a source of hope. Hope in the face of difficulty, hope in the face of uncertainty, the audacity of hope: In the end, that is God’s greatest gift to us, the bedrock of this nation, a belief in things not seen, a belief that there are better days ahead.” Barack Obama
My fundie relatives love that one.
And “We should never forget that God granted us the power to reason so that we would do His work here on Earth” BUT he adds “so that we would use science to cure disease, and heal the sick, and save lives.”
However my fundie relatives ignore the second half of the above comment. Gawd gives doctors the power, you know.
And he also recognizes this:
“Given the increasing diversity of America’s population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.”
My concern is less about him and his imaginary friend, and more about what his plans are for health care, the war, the economy, gasoline prices (if he can do anything about that), education, etc.