What is Patriotism to you?
3 July 2008 by Stardust
Barack Obama and John McCain have shared their thoughts on patriotism:
* Barack Obama: Faith In One Another As Americans
* John McCain: Putting The Country First
Many liberals are labeled unpatriotic or told that we “hate America” because we are against the war in Iraq, or if we point out serious flaws in our government that need to be corrected. I thought this would be a good time to state just what patriotism means to each of us or what our vision of patriotism happens to be.
Happy 4th everyone.
3 July 2008, on 4:38 pm
I find it interesting that YOU didn’t share what you think patriotism is. Are you willing to go on record? I agree more with John McCain’s definition than Barack’s.
3 July 2008, on 5:24 pm
Matt, I will post what I think Patriotism is when I am finished with it. We are a bit busy around here remodeling a house so have to do stuff in bits and pieces. I will get to it though. You have any thoughts to share?
3 July 2008, on 5:24 pm
I actually had to call one of my cousins on that “hating America”, rightard talking point not too long ago.
I told him, of course we love America, moron. This is the greatest experiment in self-governance ever attempted on this earth. And, because we love it, it matters deeply to us when it doesn’t live up to it’s ideals. It tears us up inside to watch someone systematically try and take it apart, to take it back in the direction of feudalism and a monarchy in everything but name. Sometimes that love can be tough like sometimes you have to get in a loved one’s face and express your concern about an addictive behavior. If we didn’t love America, we wouldn’t spend so much time trying to fix it, trying to make it stronger, trying to insure that our children’s children’s children will be able to take advantage of the opportunities America, at it’s best, represents.
Patriotism, hmm.
“The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.”
-H.L. Mencken
“I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.”
-James Baldwin
“When a whole nation is roaring Patriotism at the top of its voice, I am fain to explore the cleanness of its hands and the purity of its heart.”
-Ralph Waldo Emerson
“Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.”
-Samuel Johnson
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
-Teddy Roosevelt
“You’re not to be so blind with patriotism that you can’t face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”
-Malcolm X
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”
-Clarence Darrow
“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.”
-Albert Einstein.
Patriotism doesn’t come with a flag magnet or a lapel pin. Patriotism isn’t whoever shouts the loudest. Patriotism is loving one’s country and the people in it, not an excuse to bully or hate some agreed upon other. Patriotism is being grateful for the advantages the accident of your birth has given you- grateful not to anyone in particular but to the abstract. This love and gratitude is expressed in making your home better than it was when you found it, by making the lives of those you encounter easier, by righting wrongs and correcting injustices, and by making hot monkey love with someone who agrees to do it with you without asking for money.
I’ll leave you with this and have a great 4th.
“Sometimes I wonder if I’m patriotic enough. Yes, I want to kill people, but on both sides.”
-Jack Handey.
3 July 2008, on 5:33 pm
Simply put, patriotism to me means love of and support for my country. A patriot wants what is best for one’s country, which means the truly patriotic person will get involved and point out what we see as flaws and things that need to be changed for the better. It isn’t blind flag waving, wearing flag bandanas and t-shirts, or plastering flag stickers on your automobiles. It isn’t “standing beside her” if we feel our government is taking a wrong course of action in foreign and domestic affairs. In democracies, dissent can be very patriotic. If our country is pursuing a course that can be proven to be harmful to it, then it is not only a patriot’s right to dissent, but his or her duty.
Is that ok Matt? Do I get an A+?
RDZ, that was very good. You get an A++
I am really sick of that “hating America” bullshit.
3 July 2008, on 5:47 pm
I found this USA today poll…for what it’s worth.
Poll: Flag pins, protests both patriotic
There’s a link in the left-hand sidebar where it shows responses to listed actions that supposedly indicates a person’s patriotism and percentages.
3 July 2008, on 6:53 pm
Patriotism to me is like the meaning of life: You make up your own definition and then debate why yours is better.
3 July 2008, on 7:48 pm
To be honest, I’m not patriotic. I view my status as an American as an accident of birth. I’m a citizen because I was born here. While I enjoy the rights and privileges granted to me, I didn’t ask for them. I can’t give them back while still living in this country.
So I’m happy and comfortable where I’m at, and glad that I was born here, but don’t feel that I owe any particular allegiance or gratitude for it. And as for “love” for my country, or any sense of pride in being an American… No, not really.
3 July 2008, on 9:12 pm
In this day and age, especially with this present crew stinking up the joint, it’s difficult to get all goosefleshed about one’s country. With skepticism- and sometimes cynicism, comes the tendency to look back at, say, a Thomas Jefferson and balance his contributions to the founding of this nation against the apparent hypocrisy of his slaveholding or the scandal of his carrying on with Sally Hemmings. Do this often enough- all flush with 20/20 hindsight, and the enormity of the founders’ accomplishment can become obscured or diminished. Add to that most of our ethnic histories having our ancestors either showing up here long after the fact or, worse, hauled here against their will, and it’s easy to ignore any sort of connection from then to now.
So, on a day like tomorrow, you really have to clear your mind of all the rigamarole over the personal shortcomings of these men. Obviously, they weren’t perfect. But, while they were to some extent products of their time and environment, they managed to literally risk their necks and execute a document that’s still a viable blueprint for the closest thing to a perfect form of human government, that’s still the envy of those who seek freedom around the world, that, so far, has managed to stand-up to the conservatard’s assault on it. Even if we feel no real or imagined connection to those folks, even if our individual presence here is just blind luck, it’s awful damned remarkable.
And that’s pretty cool…
4 July 2008, on 12:10 am
I think the following quote sums it up succinctly:
“It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine.
& 1 more:
“My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.” - Carl Schurz.
4 July 2008, on 3:07 am
What is Patriotism?
It’s a political tool used to control the masses.
4 July 2008, on 8:02 am
I’m a landscape patriot. Its a term I came across on some other discussion forum from a German. He described his love of his country in terms of the environment and its natural beauty. The nice thing about being a landscape patriot is that I don’t have to feel superior to my German friend. I love the many wonderful natural treasures that this country has to offer and I feel protective of them, but I can empathize with people who love the natural wonders of their countries.
My favorite natural wonder? This is going to sound strange, but the vast, empty plains of Nebraska and Eastern Colorado. I know driving across Nebraska is dull, dull, dull, because I’ve done it many times. But having lived there, I can say there is nothing more exhilarating than being out in the middle of the vast emptiness of Nebraska during a summer thunderstorm or a winter blizzard. Being completely at mercy to natures elements really establishes where you fit in the scheme of things.
4 July 2008, on 9:49 am
He described his love of his country in terms of the environment and its natural beauty. The nice thing about being a landscape patriot is that I don’t have to feel superior to my German friend.
I correspond with about 40 individuals from about 28 different countries and we first “met” we all described our countries in terms of natural beauty and environment. I’ve been “penfriends” with them from 10-12 years and we discuss some politics but it’s never one saying their country is superior to the other’s. We discuss problems and talk about the ideological “world peace” and hope for a coming together and imagine all that could be accomplished if we did work together to stop famine, poverty, war, environmental problems, etc. I realize this is very “idealistic” but it’s not a bad thing to hope for.
But having lived there, I can say there is nothing more exhilarating than being out in the middle of the vast emptiness of Nebraska during a summer thunderstorm or a winter blizzard.
People always ask me why I stay in “boring” Illinois. Well, when you get away from Chicago there are hills, valleys, rivers and caves, etc. The Fox River Valley and the Shawnee National Forest are beautiful. Actually I love the architecture of Chicago so living where we do in the far southern suburbs we go one direction for nature, the other for culture and entertainment.
The most beautiful place we have been though is Going-to-the-Sun road in Glacier National Park in Montana. You don’t limit it to the love of one’s country there, you think of the awesomeness of nature itself.
4 July 2008, on 10:21 am
Unless, of course, you are driving up the road behind two monstrous, diesel fume spewing RVs. They need to ban those things from all national parks. My favorite NP is a toss up between Olympic and Zion. They both have a weird alien vibe that give you the feeling that you are living in a different eon or on some alien planet.
I think what’s interesting about valuing the land you are connected to is that it transcends artificial political boundaries. Being attached to the land that you call home is both deeply personal and universal. Home is a powerful, regardless of where yours happens to be located.
Almost makes this cynical materialist get all spiritual. Almost.
4 July 2008, on 12:17 pm
They need to ban those things from all national parks.
I agree. I think that Yosemite has already. I might be wrong.
My favorite NP is a toss up between Olympic and Zion. They both have a weird alien vibe that give you the feeling that you are living in a different eon or on some alien planet.
I love those two places, also. Yes, they do give vibes that make you feel like you are on another planet. I also love Arches. The colors there and at Bryce are magnificent. Makes one forget for a little while about all the crap going on in the world.
Home is a powerful, regardless of where yours happens to be located.
Yep, no matter where we travel, it’s always good to be home.
4 July 2008, on 12:25 pm
Patriotism to me is a buzzword I hear on TV a lot.
I like where I live and I know I’m fortunate to live here. I like my friends and neighbors and like everyone else here I could go on for quite a while about the natural beauty all around me.
I’m not terribly thrilled with the current government because they seem to be struggling under the bizarre notion that they OWN the place but other than that I like it here. So if you happen to encounter any Canadian politicians on your travels this summer, give them a slap for me.
Canada is a nice place to live… so long as you don’t mind freezing your buttocks off 8 or 9 months of the year.
Did I mention it gets cold?
4 July 2008, on 1:39 pm
For me patriotism as an American is that I see America as an embodiment of certain values and ideals, and that those values must be defended and promoted. But my love of country is not absolute if it turns aways from the ideals embodied in the Declaration and the Constitution.
4 July 2008, on 2:08 pm
Personally, analyzing the notion of Patriotism, reminds me of the semantic roots…Patria…Latin: Father…which, of course, is the verbal root for the “Fatherland” metaphor. That also conjures up, for me, memories of WWII RE the Nazi’s emphasis of “The Fatherland”.
OK…so where am I going with this?
I guess I relate, even somewhat subconsciously, the word Patriotism to Patriarchal (D’uh!)…yeah…ala…the fucking Western Abrahamic religions. The rather dumb, overtly psychopathic genderized notion, fucking over us poor humans with the made-up notion of a “Father Gob”; and the, sort of inverse, tangential, subtle blaming of women…more like ’sneaky’…through things like using the metaphorical “MOTHER Nature” to gender-like scapegoat all kinds of disastrous, punishing, weather circumstances.
Like…”Mom” does all the vicious spanking; whilst…”Daddy” is nowhere to found?
“Cutting to the chase”…allow me to interpolate my substitute preference of an “ism”…
that of “Matriotism”; or Love of the “Motherland”. [All this is tongue-in-cheek, of course!]
Yeah…I know…who gives a shit what I think!
Out of those quotes, proferred above by RDZ, my choice would be:
“Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.”-Samuel Johnson
And…What!…surprise?…there’s a huge shit-house full of those in this world!
Actually, to be serious…for me…Love of FREEDOM is paramount!
I was born in Chicago, IL USA…in December 1939…a fortunate place, indeed (if to be born AT ALL can be termed ‘fortunate’), considering what was going on in the rest of the world at the time.
Now…Do I “love” my country? Do I “love” the Universe? Do I even “love” the Planet Earth! Which “love”, if any, should take precidence?
Perhaps, more importantly, do I “love” myself? Questions…always questions.
But answers…aye…there’s the rub…answers, at least HONEST answers, are not always so easy!
My “love” of Freedom, however, is for me…UN-questioned!
Anyway…
A Happy…and safe…and LOVELY?…4th of July Holiday to all my fellow American “Matriots”…oh OK…
“Patriots”!
“Bang-Bang!”
4 July 2008, on 8:55 pm
PATRIOTISM, n. Combustible rubbish ready to the torch of anyone ambitious to illuminate his name.
In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first.
Ambrose Bierce, The Devil’s Dictionary
4 July 2008, on 10:54 pm
The term “patriotism” has become so terribly tainted as of late, I’m not even sure it’s worth salvaging at this point.
But here goes–
Simply put, patriotism is treating your country like your best friend–you stick by through thick or thin because you know it’s worth it. That said, when your best friend fucks up, you damned well let him/her know, and implore him/her to get their act together. And when your best friend doesn’t treat you they way you feel you deserve to be treated, you tell him/her to cut that shit, pronto.
Oh, and don’t have sex with your best friend–that just makes thing messy. I guess this is where the analogy goes stale.
5 July 2008, on 12:34 am
BTW–the only folks that really have any credibility, in my eyes, in claiming to be “proud” to be Americans are those who have immigrated here, or left and then came back because, damnit, it is the best place to live after all. People who declare themselves “patriots” garner very little respect from me, and even less if they are American by default of birth.
5 July 2008, on 12:34 pm
“Patriotism” is a word that, obviously, has many different connotations.
I am a veteran who did not have to be in a war zone to know that wars are stupid, hubristic exercises (always) by those who start them. If my country is the one which does that and I don’t at least speak truth to power, then shame on me.
If I am a person who thinks that those who don’t hate an ill-defined, amorphous enemy are “giving aid and comfort” then shame on me.
If I am a person who thinks that, somehow, accidents of birth, patterns of speech, color of skin or one’s chosen faith (or lack of any faith) makes them somehow inferior in their “patriotism”, then sahame on me.
Patriotism, to me, is a bad term. Love for my country, love for my nation and the ideals that are the embodiment of the US Constitution are what I strive to hold in my heart.