Democratic National Convention to open with interfaith service
25 July 2008 by Stardust
Vjack at Atheist Revolution has brought this to our attention — Democratic Convention to Include Interfaith Service Led By Pentecostal
Vjack writes:
Plans are coming together for the 2008 Democratic National Convention scheduled next month in Denver. But one question remains for the organizers to answer - what to do with those pesky atheists in the party. Specifically, should they be represented in the interfaith service someone deemed necessary to open the Convention? And in case you haven’t heard about that yet, not only will there be an interfaith service, but it will be led by a Pentecostal minister, Leah Daughtry.
If you don’t recall interfaith services at previous Democratic conventions, that is because this appears to be the first. Not surprisingly, atheists are asking whether they will have any role in such a service or whether they are correct to interpret this as exclusionary.
Personally, I am not overly worried about whether atheists end up being part of the interfaith service or not. On the other hand, I am worried about why an interfaith service is deemed necessary in a country founded on separation of church and state. I am even more bothered over the role of a Pentecostal minister in organizing the service.
The Pentecostal leader (who has been accused of homophobia and other things) bothers me also, since that is such a crazy fundamentalist sect of Christianity. What are they thinking? WTF is going on in this country?! It’s like a nationwide religious revival instead of a national political campaign for President of a supposedly secular government.
25 July 2008, on 1:36 pm
An “interfaith service” to open the Democratic convention? Jeebus, talk about pandering. Seriously, are they trying to bore the shit out everyone. Besides, aren’t watered-down interfaith services usually reserved for remembering victims of tragedies?
What a waste of time.
25 July 2008, on 1:51 pm
Oh, please let Scientology be there!
25 July 2008, on 1:59 pm
“We will host our first ever Democratic
Convention interfaith gathering” to “celebrate our shared values,” said Leah Daughtry, chief of the convention.
That is assuming that everyone at this “interfaith” meeting shares the same values? What about diversity?
25 July 2008, on 3:33 pm
My take on it is that it’s a political tactic to pull in as many religious as possible, especially those who normally vote Repuglican, to increase the odds that they’ll vote Democrap when the time comes. I have really mixed feelings about it, because at the same time that I can understand it as strategy, as an atheist I also feel left out as a sector of society, at least in the party’s public message. It bugs me that most political leaders consider that this is not yet the time for the open inclusion of atheists and other freethinkers, that they would still let the religious majority intimidate them to further discrimination against us.
On the other hand, Pentecostal? One thing’s for sure: it’ll be great entertainment if the Spirit comes upon her and she starts speaking in tongues on prime-time television…
Let the dog-and-pony show begin!
25 July 2008, on 3:45 pm
It bugs me that most political leaders consider that this is not yet the time for the open inclusion of atheists and other freethinkers, that they would still let the religious majority intimidate them to further discrimination against us.
So much for any “change”. It’s politics as usual…as usual. (Well, maybe not as usual…it’s changed to now both sides sucking up to the fundies…that’s a change I guess, but not one I was hoping for.) Who would have thought it would come to this?
25 July 2008, on 4:25 pm
I really really really hope Obama is just pandering and doesn’t really buy into all this bullshit. But as a realist, I can see why Obama and the Dems have to resort to these types of tactics, after all, the majority is religious and they are easily fooled when the Republicans attack the Dems as being “godless”. And let’s face it, the only thing the Republicans have this year is to attack Obama as being a Muslim or Un-American because McCain has absolutely nothing to work with. So I’m guessing that Obama’s handlers are working overtime to build up his image as a God-fearing American.
25 July 2008, on 4:30 pm
Looking back at Obama’s history, he is definitely a “devout god-fearing” believer. He trusts his sky boss for guidance in everything.
Obama states
Most Democrats have always been believers, but the separation of church and state has been very important to liberals of the past and their personal beliefs were kept low key. That was the difference before, and now that wall is being torn down for political gain?
25 July 2008, on 5:23 pm
I’m going to invest heavily in the company that makes Chapstick. I can’t believe how much fundie ass kissing is going on in this campaign!
25 July 2008, on 9:21 pm
I’m not sure why this is a surprise to anyone cognizant this voting public’s makeup. Over eighty percent- is it 85?- of Americans have an adult imaginary friend of some kind. Given that the split between liberal and conservative is roughly fifty-fifty, that leaves quite a sizable chunk of the population on our side of the aisle. Add to that the fact that many of the closer to sane religious repugnantklans are not precisely sold on McBush the Elder- some are coming around on the environment, for example, and it would be stupid not to appeal to the godbotherers.
We’re simply not numerous enough. Nor are those of us there are organized into anything resembling a voting bloc. In addition, discussing atheism publicly is still far too new a phenomenon to enter the mainstream without scaring the pants off of middle America. Frankly, we’re a statistical anomaly. We’re the gifted kids in the average classroom. The material is tailored to include as many as possible, erring on the side of those with lower abilities and we’re left to our own devices- or we’re moved to the AP classes but they don’t have those for society itself.
We’re not going to be included, not for the foreseeable future. What’s left for us is to see through the religious mumbo jumbo and make a reasoned decision on which candidate will best guide this nation forward on the course most likely to fulfill it’s promise. Expending energy sulking about being left out accomplishes nothing. We’re not a true minority. Our “struggles” do not measure up to those of the ethnic or gender minorities. We’ve simply arrived at the next step in humanity’s mental/emotional evolution a little early and it’s up to us to hold down the fort until the others catch up.
25 July 2008, on 10:35 pm
I am not sulking about being left out, I am pissed because the Democratics are mixing religion and politics more and more whereas in the past they have kept that personal and were the ones to uphold the separation of church and state. Issues are getting buried and forgotten about under all the “revival” and Babble thumping.
So, their tactic for change is “if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em?” I cannot make any excuse for them for these new “winning strategies”. There are going to be a lot of really pissed off people either way when they find out they have been lied to (on either side) because with these kiss butt tactics, they are lying to many people and we won’t find out who is being lied to until after what’s done is done.
There is no need to start off the Democratic National Convention with god shit.
25 July 2008, on 10:54 pm
As Stardust quoted Obama:
“I learned that my sins could be redeemed. I learned that those things I was too weak to accomplish myself, He would accomplish with me if I placed my trust in Him. And in time, I came to see faith as more than just a comfort to the weary or a hedge against death, but rather as an active, palpable agent in the world and in my own life.”
That’s the total, ROOT ESSENTIAL, bullshit doctrinal CROCK of vicarious sacrifice that the promulgation of Xtian mythology brainwashes people with. Teaching, especially children, that they’re “inheriting” fucking ‘guilt’ from two ‘pig ignorant’ , prototype morons in an ancient non-existent garden…all planned out by an outrageously unjust, obviously insipid…pathologically insane…totally incompetent, fuck-headed, vicious Sky-Daddy.
In essence; a doctrine of…Absolute…Total…BONKERDOM!
Nobody, I think, exposes that unquestioned baloney that many of us were brought up with better than Hitchens…in particular…in those two links that I recently posted. In case any of you missed them…here’s a repeat. In fact, I think, they’re particularly excellent links to pass on to others for nicely exposing the essentially…”IMMORAL”…doctrinal flaw that accompanies that bunch of ancient, made-up, Sado-Masochistic bullshit!
“Christopher Hitchens - Religion Illustrated (1 of 2)” [length: 8:40]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vueL6iEipsE&feature=related
“Christopher Hitchens - Religion Illustrated (2 of 2)” [length: 5:01]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc2nfIUMSmI&feature=related
[Sorry, for the repeat, Stardust...?]
Religions…and their parasitical, leach-like, ‘priestly’ promulgators…essentially THRIVE on totally made-up, contradictory, and outright lies based primarily on FEAR and GUILT. It seems that a whole lotta politicians are seriously taking notes from those assholes; and in imitating them, in many cases, actually ARE…(slash resume)…politicans/preachers!
More accurately, perhaps: “Politician/Preacher/Lying, Theiving Motherfucker/asshole/yada yada!”
As much as Obama is impressive for his obvious ‘charisma’, oratory ability, and, rather refreshing, ‘thoughtful’ way of expressing himself; it’s absolutely AMAZING to me that a guy with his obvious intelligence, and, if you will…rather “mixed bag” secular upbringing, could actually swallow the Xtian bullshit…AS AN ADULT?
Is it, perhaps, a case of: “The end justifies the means”? Is he, essentially, after all is said and done…THAT crass?
That may not, considering the recent “evolution” of increasingly outrageous Political “skullduggery”, be TOO much of a stretch.
I hope that’s not the case; but then…the contrary isn’t too…reassuring?
It IS really outrageous what’s happened in Politics, especially, since the 2000…”Selection”; and, of course the insanity since 9/11!
Boldfaced…Greedy…Fucking corrupt…lying…even blatantly Constitutionally undermining…
ASSHOLES!
25 July 2008, on 11:21 pm
@ Raindogzilla: You are correct in that there aren’t that many of us with respect to a headcount. But we are everywhere. Hey, at one time there were damned few Christians. I’d be willing to bet that at one time there was only one Scientologist. I’m quite sure that at one time the specific ideal of “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” existed only in a single human mind. We don’t need to go on loudly and at great length as long as what we do say has substance and that special hook of actually being so.
And, Stardust, don’t forget that politicians and their most ardent supporters, laboring under whatever banner or rubric, are certain to throw into the cauldron any thing at all that might sway the great unwashed; eye of newt, entitlement, preemptive strikes, less gummint, more gummint, new tax, new enemy, new War on Something, tongue of dragon and even the conflation of religious faith and patriotism. It is a sad state but it is unavoidable. Politicians are not leaders, they are cold-reading adepts, prodding for the weak spots in society and exploiting them for no greater goal than to go on doing the same.
I don’t sound dismissive and disappointed on purpose. It’s just something that falls out of the data when I review the few decades of American history that I have personally witnessed. Fortunately, there are sufficient examples in history of a vocal minority winning respect. That is the first goal we heathen baby roasters need to attain. I think it’s doable if we employ finesse and grace. It doesn’t cost a thing to be courteous, and neatness always counts. Basic stuff we learned as kids.
Some jobs are not really hard but it seems as if progress is so slow. But one slogs on and at some point is startled to see real progress. Yeah, this is just another job.
26 July 2008, on 1:29 am
“So, their tactic for change is “if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em?””
I didn’t say that and I don’t even think it. The tactic is “let’s do what’s necessary to get into office.” One would like to think that the incestuous clusterfuck that’s been this current administration would make this sort of pandering unnecessary, that any Democratic candidate who could walk and chew gum at the same time would win in a rout. But 2000 and 2004 told us different. They told us that having the better- by far- candidate on paper meant jackshit to the “I’d like to have a beer with that guy” voter, that outright lies and distortions of reality were tremendously effective for the “6 second soundbite is good enough, I’m too stupid and/or lazy to actually check” viewer, that the party of wealthy whites and assorted other misguided bigots could don the mantle as “The Party of That Jewish Socialist Rabblerouser Who Was All About Turning the Other Cheek, Giving Away One’s Worldly Possessions, and Caring for the Poor” just by repeating that fiction endlessly.
To be honest, I’ve got little problem at all with making American christinsanity a whole lot more christlike before it’s scuttled completely and thrown in history’s dustbin. Hell, if we can make the Dems the party of Jeebus, what does that leave the GOP? Greed? Murder? Fascism? Don’t get me wrong, I can’t stand dishonesty of any sort which, when you come down to it, is what media manipulation, pandering, and politicking in general are and I cringe every time I hear my candidate testifying about what amounts to a mental disease or defect. But the stakes are too high to leave any stone unturned if that stone may help insure a Democrat sits in the White House come January 21.
Nobody’s “joining” the dark(ages) side here. Changing people from fundie to free- if it’s possible at all, will have to take place incrementally and, probably, slowly as molasses in January.
26 July 2008, on 3:42 am
I was raised Pentecostal, but this woman seems to be from the less crazy branch. The branch I was in didn’t allow women to cut or trim their hair or wear anything other than knee-length skirts.
I actually know a biology professor (and a Democrat) who teaches evolution and describes himself as a fundamentalist Pentecostal. It’s bizarre.
26 July 2008, on 10:13 am
I think if this is just political pandering to the religious right, that next time around people are going to be pissed off about being lied to and it’s going to backfire and be even more damaging to the party. Just getting in now with whatever sales pitch is lying to one side or the other and I can’t see how that can help the Democratic party. So much for change, the lying goes on and on.
As for Obama, from living in Illinois (Chicagoland) and seeing this politician in the limelight for some time, he is indeed as local commercials depict (Both sides Barack) telling people what they want to hear depending on who he is talking to. No one can be sure of what he is going to do (usually very little) and we need to hold him to his word. As far as his god beliefs, they are quite genuinely fundamentalist (openly evangelical) when compared to any other Democrats who have been or have campaigned for President before. It’s nothing new for him. The Dems decided to fight the religious fundamentalism with religious fundamentalism.
My prediction…Obama will be the next President (our other option is pretty pathetic) and will supply us with lots to write and bitch about separation of church and state. He isn’t going to stop with the god crap. I really think the Dems didn’t need to take it this far.
I don’t want the other side to win either, but I am not happy with my party right now. We are going to have to hold Obama as accountable as any other politician.
26 July 2008, on 10:28 am
I actually know a biology professor (and a Democrat) who teaches evolution and describes himself as a fundamentalist Pentecostal. It’s bizarre.
It is indeed bizarre. I don’t understand otherwise intelligent humans clinging to such crazy belief systems and difficult for me to trust them. You never know when their crazy beliefs are going to kick in or when their god is going to tell them to do something insane. No matter what political party one is affiliated with, the ones who say they are directed totally by this imaginary friend is disturbing. Let’s hope that Obama’s god isn’t as crazy ass as Dubya’s.
26 July 2008, on 3:04 pm
Silly you, thinking the Dems were different from the GOP.
Don’t you know they are both just a front for the same neofascists?
26 July 2008, on 7:16 pm
It’s not so much pandering to the religious right as it is throwing a bone to the religious left. Same with Obama’s proposal to ramp up the faith based intitiatives stuff. If I’m following his thinking, you invite the religious in to the tent so long as they drop their intolerant BS at the flap. Otherwise, they’re on their own. Perhaps the desire to actually help people- or greed- wins out over poor biblical scholarship. Of course it’s not perfect but have ya looked at the world we live in lately?
We can sit here and dissect our candidate til the cows come home. Hell, we could learn that Obama’s been a serial killer for the last twenty years or so and he’d still be the better candidate by a longshot. So even if you’re fixated on the fact that it’s the lesser of two evils again at the ballot box, that he isn’t the messiah that some bubblehead’s so inanely proclaim, it’s lesser by quite a bit of that aforementioned evil and you can’t blame him for the behavior of some fawning sycophants.
He’s not going to merge religion into government.
He’s not going to appoint cabinet members who make their subordinates attend prayer breakfasts.
He’s not going to appoint reactionary conservatives to judgeships- be they federal or Supreme.
He’s not going to give crazies like Hagee a voice in the White House.
He is going to do something about those who can’t afford healthcare.
He is going to actually address climate change and our dependence on foreign fossil fuels beyond drilling for more.
I can’t give you specifics. Hell, he probably can’t give you specifics at this point because everything will ultimately depend on what the numbers in Congress turn out to be majority-wise. But I do trust his intent. I wish we could expend the energy we’re using to attack him on the actual threat facing us- a McLame presidency.
26 July 2008, on 8:45 pm
In Obama’s words - “Doing the Lord’s work is a thread that’s run through our politics from the very beginning. And it puts the lie to the notion that the separation of church and state in America means that faith should have no role in public life.” And to think that this fucking fake has credentials relating to constitutional law… The two party system is a load of crap! What better time for a third party than when the “progressive” is digginig around the GOP for running mates? Obama does plan on merging religion into government through his expansion of the faith based initiatives, if nothing else. I feel it is important to stand up for freedom from state sponsored religion, rather than just loyally supporting the grand ole party from the closet.
Haha, its funny how the resident Obama campaign staffer feels proud enough to accuse people of wasting energy attacking Obama. Is it really that unusual for people on an atheist forum to denounce the Democrats for adding some stupid superstition to the conveion? Do you really think it will be well accepted to come on here accusing people of sulking and plugging for your saviour Obama at every chance possible? And what is this crap about wanting American Christianity to become “more christlike”? Do you actually beieve in that crap, somewhere deep inside of your subconcious? Do you really think that some mythological protagonist stands for real values and virtues? Well, with athests like RDZ voicing their opinions, who needs deity-exploiters to keep atheists in the closet?
“We are not going to be included, not for the foreseeable future” - are you fucking joking?? What a good for nothing attitude. Atheists have been and always will be included in the political process, unfortunatly the recent trend in the democratic party has been to overlook and disenfranchise atheists. Take your patronizing “we are the gifted kids in the average classroom” elsewhere. Honestly, this election cycle has been so revealing in how fucked the two party system is. Self declared “progressives” proudly attempting to herd in those who may stray from party loyalty. I have news for you RDZ, there are those of us who actually resist being herded like sheep. Again I would like to express my distaste for your obsession with collectivism - there is more than just liberal and conservative, minority and majority, religious and non religious… Did it ever cross your mind that voting blocks are bullshit? Please, stop with your divisive obsession with colectivism. At least disclose that you are working for the Obama campaign every time you plug him on this forum.
thanks for the quote and keeping us informed stardust.
26 July 2008, on 10:12 pm
I wish we could expend the energy we’re using to attack him on the actual threat facing us- a McLame presidency.
I, for one, am not attacking him. I am merely raising my concerns, especially since it appears he will be the next President. Things that Obama is saying, and what the Dems are doing (or haven’t been doing) concern me and as you can see from the response here and on liberal/atheist blogs all over the blogosphere, I am not alone. And these are very legitimate concerns that we have been raising. These are concerns we have had with the Republicans in every election and quite disturbing to see our own party using the same type of religious pandering.
Once the Bible revival is done in Colorado, we will see how it goes.
26 July 2008, on 11:53 pm
As for Bush’s “Faith Based Initatives”…here is a quote from Theocracy Watch:
And we are seeing that trend continue even as we seek a new White House administration. What Bush has started, he should be happy to see it continue even with the Dems. They are probably praising Gawd for working in such mysterious ways.
And unfortunately what Bush has started, others have pledged to carry on (Including federally subsidized employment discrimination).
No matter who is president this time around, we are going to have to be on the new administration like flies on poo.
28 July 2008, on 9:38 am
Dear Jimmy Dean, Sausage-Maker to the Trailer Park,
What the fuck is your problem?
1. I’m not an Obama campaign staffer.
2. Regardless of whether a fellow named Jesus existed or not(see Socrates), there’s no doubt that his teachings about living a righteous life tend to line up pretty well with the values of the Democratic Party. Hence, a radical shift in American christinsanity to a more Jeebus-like position would be to our benefit politically as well as a step towards an eventual postgob world.
3. I’m not the one lumping people into blocks- or collectives. I’m merely pointing out that we are not one. I didn’t say we should be. I didn’t say we will be. Just that we aren’t, as a way of explaining why mainstream politics isn’t concerned about offending our sensibilities.
4. Just because it isn’t unusual for an atheist forum to be denouncing a Democratic candidate doesn’t mean it’s the correct course. Britney Spears sells millions of records but that doesn’t make her talented.
5. Announcing that one isn’t going to vote at all- or is going the third party route, IS sulking, tantamount to a toddlers tantrum but with potential real-world repercussions. And I don’t give a shit what you think.
6. I support Obama but would be recommending the same course were Richardson, Dodd, Clinton, Kerry, Gore, or Kucinich the candidate. Okay, maybe not Kucinich. I’m simply stating that preventing another essentially Bush term is the ultimate goal.
7. Gouging our candidates over pandering to the religious reveals a shocking detachment from both political and societal realities. It’s fucking necessary to get elected in this day and age. That will change eventually but, for the moment it’s how politics works.
Every day of my life I disabuse fundies I encounter of their ridiculous notions of gob, his magic firstborn, and the eternal pleasure/torture rooms. I laugh at them, to their face because it’s the kind of asshole that I am. And you know what? I couldn’t get elected to my own fucking family. Expecting a national candidate to denounce anything but the most extreme strains of godbothering is insane in a predominantly religious society.
Oh, and fuck you.
28 July 2008, on 10:38 am
at the risk of a tongue-lashing
there’s no doubt that his teachings about living a righteous life tend to line up pretty well with the values of the Democratic Party.
Religious folks make Jeebus whoever they want him to be. Peace-loving hippie Jeebus, angry Jeebus…many ‘faces” of the same Jeebus. Some say Jeebus came with a sword and is coming back for the great war. Most Christians believe this. Jeebus is pick or choose for whatever purpose you want to use him for and as changeable as the wind.
Gouging our candidates over pandering to the religious reveals a shocking detachment from both political and societal realities.
But we have done it here in this very forum with Bush and the Rethuglicans and the same faith-based bullcrap Obama wants to continue.
And like I have said before, if Obama is simply pandering and lying to get elected, it will be quite damaging to the Dems later on. There are going to be a whole lot of pissed off people when they realize they have been lied to. And he is lying to one side or the other. These strategies, if they are just strategies, may come back and bite us in the ass later. That would really suck then.
Once the Dems start with this god-bothering services (like the one before their convention), all the religious pandering etc. they are going to have to keep it up to retain the support of the gob botherers. And if that happens, Sweden or some other secular country is looking better and better to me.
28 July 2008, on 1:25 pm
And here is our “illustrious” opposition:
and this little GEM :McCain thinks Putin is the President of Germany!
OMG, The man should just retire already.
28 July 2008, on 5:21 pm
“But we have done it here in this very forum with Bush and the Rethuglicans and the same faith-based bullcrap Obama wants to continue.”
Because the Repugnantklowns make it a centerpiece of their offering. Because the religion they peddle is the hateful, bigoted, antiscientific claptrap of the middle ages. Because it’s so stultifyingly hypocritical when they really only use it for getting uneducated whites to vote against their own self-interest because they’re whipped into a frenzy thinking gays, ethnic minorities, and/or the U.N. are coming to take away their marriages, jobs, and/or guns. Because it’s entirely worthy of scorn.
Yeah, Obama is a religious dude, which calls into question his rational thinking- but it also remains to be seen whether that testimony is for real or just artfully constructed to appeal to the more moderate religious. At least his religion apparently leads him to want to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, doctor the sick, etc. and not to use it as some sort of truncheon against those deemed unworthy. Of course, I wish my candidate was a loud, outspoken atheist. But that’s not realistic. Not yet, anyway. I mean, is there even one relatively well-known atheist politician to offer up as an alternative?
As far as the faith-based BS that’s got everyone so riled, he’s made it very clear that his version will attempt to weed out the discrimination and proselytizing among the applicants and withhold federal money from those who can’t see their way clear to help without the hate. It’s probably not what I would do, personally, but 86ing the whole shebang would be political suicide. It’s a third rail because he’d get it from both sides of the aisle for even bringing it up. In terms of constitutionality, it’s actually less egregious than the already existing tax exemption for the religious. At least this program will attempt to differentiate between legitimate charity and the bullshit vanity pulpits.
If you read the buybull, there is only one Jeebus and his teachings are very clear. That a big chunk of his so-called followers have come virtually 180degrees from those teachings doesn’t change the original message, nor negate his impact as an entirely human philosopher. The religious on our side seem to at least have some grasp on that message and it’s a thousand times more likely that we can get the further right to move towards that camp than it is they’ll drop everything and join us.
That’s all I’m saying. There are degrees of religion, running the gamut from the relatively harmless eccentricity of Obama- or Jim Wallis or C. Welton Gaddy- to the full blown psychosis of the fanatical Salami’s crack suicide squads- or our old friend Dani. We’re stuck with the former and it just makes sense for us to work with them to achieve our goals- enemy of my enemy and all.
28 July 2008, on 8:11 pm
I heard a research piece on public radio the other day (Fresh Air July 14th) - Ryan Lizza. The content is oddly different from the parallel New York article (7/21/2008).
From the interview, here’s the deal with Obama. He’s in Chicago, running around to churches, doing the get out the vote thing, and one of the preachers (or more than one) asks which church HE belongs to. And one (or more) suggests he’ll be more successful with his efforts if he actually belongs to one of the churches (at 16:28 and FROM HIS BOOK). So the man goes home, does some soul searching, and bing bang boom, Jeebus shows up at his door. Nice coincidence, given Obama’d have no chance to be “the big man” without Jeebus. So is he a “real Christian” or a Christian by necessity?
Other very interesting tidbit in the story - Michelle is BGFs with Jesse Jackson’s daughter Santita (who is now godmother to their daughter)(at 11:55). So BO and JJ KNOW each other. So what the hell with all the “name calling”?
Really, it’s like watching professional wrestling.
28 July 2008, on 8:13 pm
Ooops - New Yorker article.
30 July 2008, on 11:49 am
I like how RDZ felt the need to insult people who live in trailor parks. It is the all to common arrogance of the elitist liberal, who claims to be for social justice while holding contempt for anyone who does not fit into their idea of a respect deserving “progressive” or “liberal”. Anyone concerned about the future of the separation of church and state should do anything but defend religious pandering. Are you really a closet christian RDZ? Your mythological friend Jessie can be quoted - straight from the mythological texts, mind you - as saying that the only way to salvation rather than damnation is through himself. Is this your left wing, liberal Jesus who wants everyone to live in peace? Don’t go around telling people that “the Jesus” is someone to be emulated or even remembered as a symbol of moral values. Doing this would be assisting the missionary effort. I think you should take some time to reflect on what you really think and question all of this crap you have apparently read in the bible.
Those of us who live in states that are solid red or blue states ought to keep in mind that the electoral college system makes voting for a third party or write in an easier choice. Dont get me wrong, we all probably agree that the electoral college system should have been done away with long ago… For anyone living in a state like illinois for instance, there is really no need to think that not voting for his holyness Obama will actually change the state’s electoral count. While it is horrible to think of how our democracy is flawed, this is a time when sending a message is possible by not blindly voting as a loyal party member.
30 July 2008, on 11:51 am
seriously go somewhere else to tell people about how jesus’ teachings were so fuckin great.
30 July 2008, on 12:20 pm
how would an Obamacrat missionary go about trying to convert atheists… hmm maybe they would start out by telling atheist democrats that the righteous one’s teachings line up pretty good with the demoratic values… sounds kinda familiar… I would like to think that eventually we will expand from the two party system. of course, the parties have a lot of cash to pay people to go around schilling for them…
30 July 2008, on 1:28 pm
I grew up in a trailer park so always cringe when people make trailer park jokes. I now live in a comfortable middle -class area with a nice house, but will never forget my roots. My parents still live in a trailer now because they cannot afford anything else since they lost their retirement when LTV Steel went under and they lost their health care and everything. (The trailer park they live in now is much nicer than where I grew up.) They have never been able to break out of the trailer park life and have always only dreamt of having more…but shit keeps happening to make it so they can’t even afford to sell the thing and move into a nice condo or something. In a couple of years we hope they will both decide to move into our basement where we have made a nice apartment for related living so my mother can stop working (she is 71 and works at Target to afford insurance and their lot rent) My father is 80 and has health issues. He worked and struggled for his whole life and never could get out of the trailer park. BUT they made the best of it and don’t complain. The trailer they live in now is quite comfortable and very nice inside…they just purchased this newest one in 1995 and has modern appliances, wallpaper, etc.
For anyone living in a state like illinois for instance, there is really no need to think that not voting for his holyness Obama will actually change the state’s electoral count.
Obama has Illinois cinched. No need to even campaign here.
I would like to think that eventually we will expand from the two party system. of course, the parties have a lot of cash to pay people to go around schilling for them…
Money (or unequal distribution of it) is keeping us locked in the two-party system. Who has the money has the power. There are those who disagree with this, but I think candidates should get equal campaign funds to run their campaigns so people can stop buying their political positions. Our election process needs a major overhaul. The media is also largely responsible of who gets elected. They can make or break a candidate.