Atheist “de-Baptism” ceremony
5 August 2008 by StardustI don’t know what to make of this. After reading the article and watching the video, I understand that this is all in good fun, but my immediate reaction was that it all seems quite silly to me to see grown-ups go through such a spectacle in order to “out” themselves as atheists. Call me a party pooper, but IMO it’s a bit embarrassing for me as an atheist.
Atheists bond during ‘de-baptism’
And goofy Christians just can’t help themselves. They have to come to “protest” at this supposedly fun atheist event with their proseltyzing and signs that read “God loves you” and “You matter to God.” Imagine the tizzy they would get themselves into if atheists showed up outside of their churches to do the same thing to them…show our “concern” that they are deluding themselves and not thinking rationally. Vjack wrote about church picketing over at Atheist Revolution recently.
Here is a video clip of the “de-baptism” ritual all done in fun (and while making fun of fundies at the same time).
5 August 2008, on 8:06 pm
“but IMO it’s a bit embarrassing for me as an atheist.”
Ditto.
I don’t like the thought of giving fodder to the “atheism is a religion” crowd either.
5 August 2008, on 8:32 pm
This doesn’t really embarass me at all, though I would never participate in it. I never really thought of the debaptism as giving ammo to the people who say atheism is a religion, but I do think that you’re right about that.
It did make me laugh. I love the idea of using a hair dryer!!!
5 August 2008, on 8:41 pm
The article states
I have a simpler and more dignified way…how about just saying ” There is NO evidence for the existence of God”…or simpler yet “I don’t believe”.
Atheist and humanist groups are already doing this without making it seem like a sideshow attraction.
5 August 2008, on 9:06 pm
I think it would be more fun to take video of ourselves jumping into some body of water- any body will do, pool, pond, lake, river, ocean, swamp. Then, we put the video up on YouTube backwards, showing us springing from the water. As for this bit, it’s fun because it’s mockery but, as to any more significant symbolism? Not so much.
6 August 2008, on 2:36 am
It doesn’t often happen, but here I find myself in almost complete disagreement with…well, everyone.
I have little use for ceremonies and tribalism. My habit is to view them with mild bemusement, boredom, or derision, depending on length, content, and context. But my reactions are usually based on ceremonies that are forced on people. Boring graduations that are held for the parents. Boring weddings that are held for the parents and meaningless community moral standards. Boring funerals that are held for the people who couldn’t bother to be there when the deceased was alive, or those who can’t comprehend their own fate.
Seems to me like these folks were having a good time.
Symbols, and thus symbolic actions, don’t carry any weight with me. I really couldn’t give a a shit if I tried, and I’m not going to try. But I realize that sometimes, for some people, in some places, there is a human need for togetherness. Empathy. Simpatico. Whatever. I’ve never really needed it in my life, but there have been times when it was comforting, affirming, and fun. With no greater, sinister purpose behind it, I can’t condemn it. Of course, I don’t expect for this ceremony to be held sacred by ANYBODY. The christians are welcome to protest-I would expect no less. And rationalists are welcome to poo-poo the whole idea-I would expect no less.
I came to atheism honestly, if not quite painlessly. I struggled inside for years. I was never heavily indoctrinated into superstition, but on the other hand, no one tried to help me remove the superstitions either. I earned my rationalism and atheism alone, and at root I believe that we all do: but I can’t just start talking shit about those who didn’t make the jump all alone. I do not wish to encourage groupthink among atheists, and I can see plenty of room for complaints if that is what you saw in the video. What I saw was a few people who, with the support of their like-minded friends, were able to say something loud and proud that the rest of the world didn’t want to hear.
6 August 2008, on 2:37 am
The baptisms at the church I was forced to go to as a child were my second favorite parts of the service. (My favorite part: leaving.) Because it was a Seventh-Day Adventist Church, they practiced full-immersion baptisms, and I loved watching a grown man dunk other adults into the water. Sort of like a dunk-tank at a carnival. The significance of it was lost on me at the time.
Oh wait, it still is.
6 August 2008, on 7:42 am
Myself, I don’t like anti-rituals much more than I like rituals. Some people need them, I understand.
6 August 2008, on 9:18 am
We’re here-er. We’re free-er. Get over it.
6 August 2008, on 12:20 pm
RDZ, that idea of making a video of coming out of the water backwards is hilarious.
While I am glad that atheists are starting to feel comfortable coming together for support and publicly proclaiming their atheism with the help of friends, my immediate reaction to the mockery with the hair-dryer was that although it was just people having fun, at the same time it seems rather silly, especially that a prominent leader of American Atheists was conducting the mock “ritual.” I would hope that they had discussed more important issues at their gathering and this little fun mockery of xians was just the “entertainment” portion. Meetings like this are too much like “reverse church” for me. Churches have to have their little amusing anecdotes, little story time, churchertainment, snacks, and people needing people to reinforce their beliefs. This is also one of the reasons I don’t like the idea of atheist “churches”.
I was baptized twice…once as a baby and again when going to the Baptist church for a couple of years when they told me my infant baptism wasn’t valid. I then realized that all it was was getting wet. Nothing more. So there is nothing to “undo” even in mock ritual since nothing really happened.
So, what do you all think about atheists protesting at extreme fundamentalist churches like in vjack’s post?
6 August 2008, on 6:40 pm
I did think the hair dryer was funny, and I understand that this was probably in good fun, but it really gives more significance to religious ceremony than it deserves.
As I don’t hold much (or really any) reverence for religious ceremonies of any kind, I don’t feel the need for any kind of “debaptism” because the baptism I underwent holds no sigificance to me. It was done to me when I was a child, and would be meaningless even if I had been a consenting adult.
As for adding fuel to the fundie fire–the very existence of atheists sticks in their craws, and there is no convincing them that atheism is not a religion, so it’s a waste of time to worry about this adding credence to their claims.
7 August 2008, on 4:37 pm
First time commentor here, it seems your placing way to much significance on the “ritual” than it really deserves. I could be wrong but i thought it was a great way to show a) we can be silly and fun and not always “angry” and serious b) if you are a non-believer you are not alone and there are others like you that you can socialize with.Also to paraphrase Stardust : “I hope they discussed important issues”, why? Why is it atheists always have to discuss important issues when they gather? I feel that the act of getting together to be silly is a great way to deal with a very important issue, we are here in your face, we are happy Americans, with families and friends, who are like minded, and no matter how much you theistards prostitutalyze to us we will continue to be who we are.
Did anyone notice how rediculously serious the protesters took this silly “ritual”? I mean if anything it showed how fundagelicals place so much emphasis on stupid meaningless actions to a being that doesnt exist. I’d liken this de-baptism to the desecration of the Ritz, just a little more light hearted.
7 August 2008, on 7:32 pm
I hope they discussed important issues”, why?
Because, there are serious issues that need attention. Just getting together to have a fun and games with a blow dryer is rather childish. While it’s fun to mock the fundies on a blog or as casual fun amongst like-minded people, the whole elaborate set-up with the goofy foodstuffs, the planned ritual even though meant to be mere mockery and fun, was not something I would like to attend and find it a great waste of time. Also makes us appear to the religious fucktards that we are just fluffing off their beliefs and that we aren’t that serious. It’s difficult enough to try to be taken seriously.
9 August 2008, on 11:57 am
I haven’t commented in a long time, but I’m with Brad and a few others. Ritual can be very important. If you don’t “need” it, fine. But, don’t say others are silly or ridiculous for wanting to take part in it. Just because we associate ritual with religion for the most part doesn’t mean it shouldn’t have a role in our lives. I attended a workshop one time for creating “coming of age” rituals for American kids. The presenters made the argument that in many (I dare say all) other cultures, they have a coming of age ceremony (often this is fulfilled by religion, but it doesn’t have to be.) If I had children, I would have a ceremony welcoming them to the adult world; have adult role models give them words of advice, etc. I wish someone would have done this for me. It might have made the transition into puberty a little less awkward. I think the same can be said for former believers. Have a ceremony that welcomes them to the secular world-show them it’s fun over here because everything they’ve been told about us is that we’re all a bunch of serious, “militant” grumpy-pants who walk around with scowls on our faces and think there’s nothing to live for.
Honestly, if I had heard about this, I would have attended. It looked quite fun. The little girl screaming, “I can see!” was hilarious. Everyone seemed to be having a good time. If there were evangelicals outside protesting, all the better. We’re always talking about ways to be more “out” and if this got the attention of the xtians, then I think that’s a good thing. Like someone else said, it sends the message “We’re here, we’re happy, we can have fun together and your ridiculous posturing outside our meeting isn’t going to change that.”
Yes, there are serious issues that need attention, but that obviously wasn’t the time for that. Do you think it should be all seriousness all the time? We don’t have that here on this blog-there’s plenty of snark here. Lighten up. If you are embarrassed by what they’ve done, fine, but does it really affect you? Why do you feel the need to condemn others for something that could have been very cathartic for the participants?
Anyway, I guess what I mean to say is that maybe we should have fun with our non-belief. Belief is so often so serious and dire-why shouldn’t non-belief be fun and uplifting and light-hearted?
I also really like the idea of the backwards video-springing from the water.
Sorry for the “novel” comment.
9 August 2008, on 12:04 pm
Sorry, one last thought. When I learned that “amen” was not inherently religious, (it just means strong agreement) I started using it again. I feel like I’m starting to take the word back. I think having secular rituals can be a good thing for lots of people. Ritual is not inherently religious, just like the word amen is not. It’s just been associated with religion for so long, I think some of us have a knee-jerk reaction to it as such. Perhaps if some of us start to change that, we will start to “own” our own rituals as well. Again, if this is not for you, fine, but other people taking part in it does not affect you. Don’t fall into the trap of worrying about what everyone else is doing instead of living your own life in your own joyful way (sound familiar?)