Rebuttal to Pastor Mondo
1 September 2008 by Stardust
The following is my husband’s rebuttal to Pastor Mondo Gonzales who I wrote about here: “I won’t tell you who to vote for, but . . .”
Of course, the pastors who write this weekly column in our local public paper get all the space they want to write their bullshit each week, but those who write rebuttals only get 400 words, therefore my husband had to cut his original letter in half to even be considered. Regardless, I think it is a great response to Mondo. I don’t know if the New Lenox Patriot will publish the rebuttal, but Pastor Mondo will be getting a copy via e-mail. My bet is that he will boo-hoo religious persecution.
Rebuttal to 8-29-2008 pastor column.
One fact about abortion, not one politician in the USA supports abortion. However, to be against abortion you need to be for health care from conception to grave, affordable housing, political policies that will provide good jobs, free child care, excellent education system, free college, and free public transportation system. Support for the child does not stop at conception. You would also work to stop the death penalty— why kill a person you fought so hard to get born. Peace not War.
Since 40% of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion, god must be pretty busy.
Since being against abortion and being against raising taxes is at cross purposes for conservatives, how can conception to grave care be provided?I have not heard of any politician support the “homosexual lifestyle”. What many do support is treating people as people no matter what. Jesus went out and found fishermen to be his disciples and he never married. Jesus’ lifestyle was more gay than homophobe. The stories in the bible point out Jesus reaching out to those who were outcast by the Pharisees. Pharisees are now called Pastors.
Our constitution is supposed to separate church and state. It is a fact that people who get married, get married by the power of the state given to the marriage service provider. Mr. Gonzales, preaching your homophobic prejudices is a form of sexual bigotry.
The article states you are against those who do not keep the clear teaching of the scripture. That means you are against remarried divorcees, working on Sunday, and you agree with putting women away during their period and you support public stonings for transgressions that are listed in the scripture. This list could go on for pages.Those are all clear teachings of the scripture. Do you pick and choose what you want to believe or follow in the scripture?
You believe in a mythological god that has no basis in fact or reason. Your bible can be compared to a comic book. Why a news organization (that is supposed to check its facts) allows a non-factual column to be published weekly is nonsensical, especially one that is filled with bigotry.
[Editor's note: The last part of the letter was edited so to read "Why a news organization (that is supposed to check its facts) allows a non-factual column to be published weekly is nonsensical, especially one that is filled with bigotry.]
1 September 2008, on 12:15 pm
Your husband… rocks!
1 September 2008, on 12:27 pm
I feel its a good letter, but that part at the end will most likely keep it from being published, unfortunately. Its a shame those who ramble about their loving gawd can’t handle the criticism that faith is supposed to shield them from in the first place…
1 September 2008, on 12:34 pm
Typo/grammar alert!
Jesus lifestyle in more gay than homophobe. -> Jesus’ lifestyle is more gay than homophobic.
Sorry for being pedantic.
Otherwise, I agree with Jae, but predict the letter will not be published for being too anti-boo-fucking-hoo-Christian.
1 September 2008, on 1:26 pm
Good letter. Too bad they won’t print it, or if they did have people rationalize away all of the criticism.
1 September 2008, on 1:59 pm
Typo/grammar alert!
Jesus’ lifestyle is more gay than homophobic. ->Jesus’s lifestyle was more gay than homophobic.
1 September 2008, on 2:02 pm
Thanks for the typo alerts…they have been fixed here and in the original. I thought I had done a good job of editing, but guess I missed a couple.
1 September 2008, on 10:29 pm
Great letter. The last paragraph is the most poignent, which is why, as benjamin posited, this letter likely will not be published. Maybe if you remove the “comic book” comment, however true it may be. You can criticize anything in our culture in newsprint–except mainstream religion.
Our paper devotes an entire section in it’s Saturday edition to mythology (”Faith and Values”–interesting oxymoronic justoposition). What a waste of newprint and what a deriliction of duty, IMO.
1 September 2008, on 11:08 pm
Thanks for the suggestions. I passed them onto my husband and let him decide if he wants to edit those things. I will let everyone know if it gets printed. Hopefully if it is published that they won’t hack it up like a couple of editorials we have submitted in the past. The editors can make you seem like a fool with the way they hack things up.
1 September 2008, on 11:17 pm
Pastor Mondo…
His name brings back vague memories of a 1962 film…anyone remember “Mondo Cane”?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondo_Cane
And what was that film’s Plot?…
According to the ‘Internet Movie Database’:
“The original “shockumentary” consisting of a collection of mostly real archive footage displaying mankind at its most depraved and perverse, displaying bizarre rituals, cruel behavior, and animal (sheeple?) violence.”
Hmmm…Coincidence?
[I totally forgot that the tune "More" was from that film. I don't know HOW many times I sang that tune on gigs over the years!]
Anyway…
Nice rebuttal, indeed, Stardust. Congrats to your husband; but, like others have pointed out…
fat chance that it’ll get published?
And now, suddenly, the word reBUTTal seems to engender strange imagery in my (warped) mind.
Somewhat akin to seeing Jeebus’ butt on a ham sandwich…or in the wood grain of the bathroom door?
OK…tangential stuff…
[Webster's Collegiate Definition]:
rebuttal: “the act of rebutting; especially in a legal suit”
legal suit? Is that a suit made out of…toilet tissue, perhaps?
Sorry!
Even other (bogus) variations like “Rebuttkick” come to mind!
2 September 2008, on 10:51 am
Matt
Good catch! My version implied Jesus exists! Arrrgh! Head->Desk!
2 September 2008, on 4:10 pm
Kudos to your hubby, Star, even if his rebuttal doesn’t get published!
Personally, I think that if Jesus as pictured in the gospels really did exist, he probably would not have voted at all, since he claimed that the end of the world was just around the bend. Instead, he would have encouraged his flock to dedicate their time to helping the poor, healing the sick, etc. so as to be “spiritually ready” when the End Times arrived.
All in all, a far preferable attitude and action to the destructive path the fundies are on.
3 September 2008, on 6:59 am
Stardust:
I’m guessing the letter won’t make the cut, religiotards have a notable tolerance for criticism. Well done, nonetheless.
3 September 2008, on 11:21 am
Well, I will soon let you all know what happens. Copies were sent to the newspaper’s editor, the pastor himself and there is an online feedback forum for each article if any of you want to go on over to the Patriot Newspaper linked above and tell Mondo what you think. I am happily surprised by the responses so far telling Mondo basically that he is an idiot.
3 September 2008, on 6:41 pm
Tax cheats
3 September 2008, on 6:55 pm
jimmy dean, you are absolutely right. I should bring this to the attention of the IRS officials.
5 September 2008, on 8:25 am
Pastor Mondo is ignoring my husband’s email. No response yet. It probably hurts him to try to think too hard.
12 September 2008, on 3:47 pm
[...] lo and behold the New Lenox Patriot published my husband’s rebuttal to Pastor Mondo Gonzales in its entirety. I cannot believe it. It gives me hope that a newspaper printed this without [...]
16 September 2008, on 9:21 am
Dear Stardust,
Actually, I did respond to your husband’s email, but to an email address that he shared with me. To be factual, the last paragraph of your husbands rebuttal above was not originally sent to me. That part was left out, but if you want my response to your husbands rebuttal here it is in it’s entirety. I don’t know why he didn’t get it. I sent it on September 4.
Dear Jon,
I think there might be quite a bit of misunderstanding concerning my article. As a Christian, and even more so as a pastor, I am called to imitate Jesus. This was
the main point in the newspaper article as well. What this means is that neither Jesus nor myself are ‘against’ anyone. It is very true that Jesus reached out to those who were outcasts. Part of reaching out was to love these outcasts, but also commanding them to change their sinful lifestyle. A great example of this is the woman caught in the very act of Adultery and brought to Jesus by the Pharisees (John 8:1-11). He forgave her but told her to go and sin no more in her adulterous lifestyle.
Nevertheless… I certainly didn’t want to leave the impression that I, nor Jesus, are against anyone, but it is true that Jesus, and me as a Christian, are going to disagree with people’s actions. When we do challenge people to get back to following the Scripture it should be spoken boldly, but with respect. We are called to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15).
On that note, I want to invite you to come check out more of who I am, and our church. We are having a men’s steakfry barbecue this Friday at 6:30pm. You are welcome to come. Nothing formal, just some men hanging out and fellowshiping together. If you want, I can respond to your questions in your email then. It certainly is easier to do it in person than through email.
I hope you can make it. END
That was my response.
Have a great day.
16 September 2008, on 10:33 am
Pastor Mondo,
The letter was edited with the last part omitted after he wrote it, which I did state in a comment above…a few up from this one. To have added the last part would just make everyone shut down and not hear what he was saying. So, that is why it was left out.
And after reading your response, I see that you just don’t get it. By telling us what we should approve of according to your mythological beliefs, that is still bigotry. Love people but still intolerant of who they are. The main point of my husband’s rebuttal was to say that it is wrong to use your religious beliefs to tell a secular nation how to vote. When you use a public forum for religious purposes, you have crossed the line between separation of church and state and you are definitely going to get rebuttals like you have so far (comment thread at your Patriot article online). We are not the only ones who were offended.
I cannot believe you are going to invite us to church when you know that we do not believe in your mythology. We don’t need a country club. AND I am sure you do NOT want my husband coming to your steak fry. However, if he finds this letter in his email box, and shows up…remember that you invited him. He would not be showing up just to eat steak.
In your response you totally disregarded the points my husband made. You quoted from your Bible as we expected you to do. However, you disregarded the points about stoning smart-mouthed youths, putting women away during their period, and stoning people for committing adultery. Your religion is a violent and ugly one. A god, having to create a son for himself to allow to be tortured and killed for whatever reasons is as sick and gruesome as the movies you do not allow your children to watch. It is a bizarre story and not a beautiful one. To simply believe you are going to live forever because you believe in a gruesome god is absurd.
Most people do not stop to think about what they choose to believe. That is because religion offers a psychological crutch, a way to feel better than everyone else, that you are the pet of some imaginary being. Human beings are afraid to die and want to live forever, so over the course of time since humans could think, they have invented the notion of a magical afterlife in order to be able to deal with their inevitable deaths and the loss of their loved ones.
You have no evidence for the existence of this god except what is in your own mind and some dusty ancient text. People believe what they want to believe. They make their god to however they want it to be in accordance with your own desires, needs and circumstances. This is why there are so many variations of the Christian religion. No two Christians believes the same thing. So many denominations, so many variations of denominations and so many individual interpretations and opinions within those denominations. What it comes down to is that human beings are quite inventive.
Another point, since you came here, is that nothing happens without human intervention and involvement. If you are alone you can pray your hearts out but no god comes to save you when you are in trouble. You either have to save yourself, and if you cannot…then other humans must arrive to save you or your die. In disasters who comes to help? HUMAN BEINGS of all walks of life…even GASP…atheists! No one stops to think about who believes in what. Then there are those who choose not to get involved. Human beings come to the rescue…no god comes. And no god stops tsunamis, tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes. What humans cannot stop, your god cannot stop either. What humans can do, you call that god’s blessings. Please think about that.
If you like your own little church community, fine. But please remember that when you print your own private beliefs in a public newspaper there will be rebuttals to what you write. Some of us do not believe in your Jesus character, some believe in other mythologies, and you cannot go around telling the diverse public to vote a certain way because of YOUR personal beliefs.
Your commentary was clear. Being Christians before for more than three decades, we know exactly what you meant.
And also interesting how you offered to meet with my husband while you are surrounded by your church friends, and not one on one. Maybe my husband will show up with several atheist friends, is that okay?
16 September 2008, on 3:08 pm
Hi Stardust,
Thanks for your reply. I do think it’s important for all of us to be able to share our viewpoints in the public or private sphere. I certainly expect people to rebut what I have to say as I realize that the approach I take is rooted in the Bible and is very narrow. I also respect your right and my right to disagree.
I actually love debates and certainly didn’t invite your husband to the steakfry so that I could outnumber him. I feel very confident in defending myself alone if necessary. I invited him simply because I was offering a nice gesture…. no hidden agenda or ulterior motives. I am not against your husband and actually am friends with many people who adamantly disagree with me personally. We can still be friendly to one another.
The main reason that I didn’t respond point by point to your husband’s comments (or yours) is not that there aren’ t solid answers to his questions, but that as could probably be assumed by anyone reading our various perspectives, we all believe strongly in what we are positing. What that means is that it probably wouldn’t do much good…. all of us can claim to be open-minded and in some sense we should be, but the reality of it probably is that nothing I can say is going to change his or your mind…. and that’s ok. I will admit that my convictions are what they are… they are rooted in the Bible which many people reject and label as mythological.
I disagree with that assessment of the Bible being myth. That is why I am getting a graduate degree in Ancient Near Archaeology. I have studied ANE mythologies and archaeology and understand how the Bible does not fit into the Mythology of the ANE even though many assert that.
Anyone has that right to assert anything. We are all going to interpret things differently, but hopefully there is basic civility in the conversation. There certainly are some on this blog that dont’ demonstrate basic human civility in name calling, but hey… I am not going to go home and cry about it. It’s obvious that we disagree and I am content in leaving it at that. I don’t have as much time as I would like to be able to get into the nitty gritty and debate the issue… which I love to do. I just don’t have that time. Please don’t interpret my lack of response to other posts as to not having one… again….I just don’t have the time.
Thanks and have a great day.
16 September 2008, on 3:36 pm
I actually love debates and certainly didn’t invite your husband to the steakfry so that I could outnumber him. I feel very confident in defending myself alone if necessary. I invited him simply because I was offering a nice gesture…. no hidden agenda or ulterior motives. I am not against your husband and actually am friends with many people who adamantly disagree with me personally. We can still be friendly to one another.
Mondo, I agree that we can disagree and be friendly to one another, and I can appreciate if you meant it as a genuine gesture of friendship with no strings attached. Our experience in the past is that with most fundamentalist Christians there are always strings attached. They will “pray” for the person with pity after they leave your functions in hopes that they are “saved” or converted by your god to come to see things according to your perspectives and beliefs.
The main reason that I didn’t respond point by point to your husband’s comments (or yours) is not that there aren’ t solid answers to his questions, but that as could probably be assumed by anyone reading our various perspectives, we all believe strongly in what we are positing.
Concerning the mythological “questions” there are no answers because the bible is so inconsistent and contradictory. There are no concrete answers. There is no god to come down and explain this little jumbled mystery book of riddles that no one can agree on. And people interpret it however they want to in order to support personal human perspectives and opinions. All god believers from all religions strongly believing in what they are positing. You are atheist to all those other religions except your own. And all those other religions believe you are wrong. Within the Christian religion itself, there are those who think they are the “True Believers” and you all will argue and fight amongst yourselves about who is true and who is not, who is right and who is wrong, when from the outside we see it that you all are wrong and all making your own gods for yourselves, according to how you want this god to be.
However, you did not respond to the humanist questions and issue addressed for which there ARE answers and solutions. You are pro-life so far as it goes to simply telling a woman that abortion is wrong without any solutions as to how to provide for the woman and the child, their medical care, how they are going to afford housing and food. What if the woman is a drug user and will have a deformed or drug-dependent child? Conservative evangelicals want to tell people how to live according to some ancient dusty book, but then they don’t want to vote for programs which will help them live. Evangelicals are usually pro-guns which kill, pro-death penalty…which takes away life that you say only your god has a right to do. These are just a few of the contradictions of your so-called “faith”. You usually support invading other lands and killing their people and other soldiers, and have no problem with our soldiers “sacrificing” their life. This was the point of my husband’s letter.
What that means is that it probably wouldn’t do much good…. all of us can claim to be open-minded and in some sense we should be, but the reality of it probably is that nothing I can say is going to change his or your mind…. and that’s ok.
Being open-minded is being willing and unafraid to really examine what one believes and to look at the evidence (or to consider the lack of it) . In one corner you have an old ancient text written by ancient, superstitious people ignorant of science and how the world and universe works. How so many human beings can keep on believing in all sorts of ancient mystical beliefs in light of the science that has been presented before us with overwhelming evidence is mind boggling. I think then that it goes back to the fear of death and non-existence and desire to live forever.
I disagree with that assessment of the Bible being myth. That is why I am getting a graduate degree in Ancient Near Archaeology. I have studied ANE mythologies and archaeology and understand how the Bible does not fit into the Mythology of the ANE even though many assert that.
Where are you getting your degree from? While some archaeology artifacts may support some historical events depicted in the Bible, it still does not prove anything supernatural. I have also studied world mythologies, and also Bible as Literature in Social Context, Joseph Campbell and world belief systems and religions. Christianity itself has stemmed from other Middle Eastern mythologies. One of them being Mithraism. The fact is, that through all of the studies religious people do, through all of your so-called research, evidence for the existence of your god cannot be found. There is minimal mention of Jesus in a few texts and no recorded evidence of his existence or execution. Except your mythology book. There is as much evidence for the existence of Zeus, Isis, Osiris, Loki, Ra, as there is for the god you believe in.
I will admit that my convictions are what they are… they are rooted in the Bible which many people reject and label as mythological.
If that brings comfort to you, then so be it. It’s a free country. In all fairness, if there is going to be a “Pastors Corner” in a public newspaper, there ought to be a “secular corner” as well. We are working on that. And it won’t be used to promote personal bigotry against people who are different and many of whom are better people than we are.
You are going to believe whatever you want to believe and fit the archaeology and science to suit yourself. But have you ever stopped to think that your Jesus, if he existed would vote for Obama? Considering the Biblical text, Jesus was a liberal hippy…which is what my husband’s point was. And the way you have described Jesus in your article and rebuttal, you are basically saying the same thing. You all should be liberals.
16 September 2008, on 5:35 pm
^ Good response, Star! In addition, Mondo still has not addressed how he reconciles his view of the Bible as the literal, inerrant Word of God with its injunctions to stone disobedient children, rape victims, and people who wear mixed cloth, injunctions I gather he himself does not follow. How convenient to claim belief in a perfect scripture while ignoring/overlooking the parts that we recognize as tremendously outdated at best and horrifying at worst!
16 September 2008, on 7:11 pm
Here is what made me so upset over Mondo’s column. His beginning statement stated he was not going to tell us who to vote for and then he did a republican and listed all the wedge issues they bring up every election. For every one single comment in the bible on abortion, homosexuality or marriage there are at least ten about helping the poor and less fortunate. None of that was mentioned.
As a good xian Mondo should adamantly support tax cuts for the poor, Welfare for those who need it, health care for the uninsured, and I am sure he preaches that the better off in society(citizens of New Lenox) need to at the minimum TITHE and should not be buying new cars, Ipods, TV’s and buy their grocery’s at Aldi so that they can give more than enough to help their fellow citizens.
I doubt that message is preached, loud and clear, because if it was, Mondo would be out of a job.
I think it was nice to be invited to his church for a meal but I never received his email or the invite.
Mondo here has said that the bible is unclear yet in his article he said that people need to follow the clear statements in the bible. Who decides which part is clear and which part is not?
I have an open mind, as many here do. I ask one question” Give me the one fact that proves that there is a god and that your god is the supreme god, and not the flavor of the month?” If such a fact existed then all would believe in this god.
Secondly, using the bible, I can pull out quotes that state several things.
1) you can be saved only once.
2) Jesus then controls your life
3) The moment you sin, you have rejected Jesus.
4) There is no reconciling that act.
5) You get to go to hell.
This is the way the bible was interpreted ages ago, only now does it not get preached.
Why I ask?
Responsibility means doing the right thing. The right thing can mean many different things.
But if you knowingly do a wrong act, can always be forgiven, and still get to go to the magic circus, responsibility is no longer a concern.
Want to vote for someone in this election?
Vote for the person that promotes sensible laws and personal responsibility.
That is who Jesus would vote for. He told me at lunch while eating his taco.
16 September 2008, on 7:20 pm
Mondo here has said that the bible is unclear yet in his article he said that people need to follow the clear statements in the bible. Who decides which part is clear and which part is not?
It’s how all fundamentalist Christians contradict themselves. They preach that the Bible is clear, and that there are clear things that Jesus wants everyone to do, God’s message is clear and then when you ask questions then they say that the bible is not clear and contradict themselves.
17 September 2008, on 1:01 am
I know this is a little late, but Star, you might want to remind him that even if some things in the Bible are historically accurate, they found TROY. Does that prove the entire Illiad/Odyssey story?
17 September 2008, on 11:57 am
I know this is a little late, but Star, you might want to remind him that even if some things in the Bible are historically accurate, they found TROY. Does that prove the entire Illiad/Odyssey story?
AUM, you are not too late because this just started up again recently and is ongoing. I bet he will keep coming back to read for awhile because it bothers him that we disagree. If it didn’t bother him he wouldn’t give it the time of day, being a busy country-club manager and all.
That is a very good point. And if Mondo doesn’t see any similarities between his religion and various other mythologies, he is simply looking past it and seeing what he wants to see. When I studied World Mythologies I considered it from a neutral perspective, putting all my Christian bias aside (I was a Xian when first started studying these other subjects or Mythology, World Religion, and Social Anthropology.) There is one uniting factor in all of the ancient mythologies and religions, the idea of an afterlife.
22 September 2008, on 7:35 pm
I look forward to hearing more from both you and your husband. It’s great to hear from others in our community that think for themselves. I’ve felt like a lone voice in the Mokena Messenger Feedback section.
22 September 2008, on 8:22 pm
Christopher, welcome! Maybe it’s time for us to form a Freethinker’s organization in our area. I am seeing more and more Darwin fish as the population grows. It’s time the religious organizations stop monopolizing everything and stop speaking for us. This is a diverse area we live in and getting more diverse each year. f they are going to publish a Pastor’s Corner, then they can expect rebuttals from the public, right?
22 September 2008, on 9:31 pm
I agree that we should start a discussion concerning opening a public venue for us in our area. Religion is in our face everyday; my children are surrounded by it and I want them to know that we are not different or strange because of our ability to separate reality from mythology. We should have a voice within 22nd street media which I don’t think they would deny us. I’m sure there are others that would participate as well. It would be great to have representation from people within all five papers. Orland’s readership might provide the greatest influence is this endeavor if we can find support there.
Talk to you soon.
P.S. The families directly to our east and to our west home school their children. I did know that this is normal when my wife and I moved here from the north-side to raise a family. My four year old told me his friends parents asked him to be in a secret club and that he should not tell my wife and I about it. It was at that moment that I knew I could no longer hold my tongue and that I must be diligent in re-enforcing the ideas that we value while finding and maintaining a balance between keeping them safe and open-minded and overly sheltered.
26 September 2008, on 11:51 pm
Stardust,
The comments at http://www.newlenoxpatriot.com/Articles-c-2008-08-29-183922.112113_Who_would_Jesus_vote_for.html continue.
The incoherent reply from Paula R is comical at best or just sad proof of what we live with.
I have not made contact with 22nd street media. I’m waiting to hear from you first. Is this something we should work on as a group with strategic purpose or do you want to approach this independently.
26 September 2008, on 11:56 pm
and now this…
http://www.newlenoxpatriot.com/Articles-c-2008-09-26-185224.112113_Separation_of_church_and_state_is_it_true.html
27 September 2008, on 10:47 am
Hi Christopher, I wrote a rebuttal to the stupid Paula who ranted on with personal attacks and such a loving Christian, isn’t she? They get so hateful when challenged.
And I am working on a rebuttal to Mondo’s latest misunderstandings he is spreading as truth. So many evangelicals misunderstand the laws of Separation of Church and State. They do not possess a proper understanding of American Government or how the separation of church and state protects his religious freedoms just as it protects those with no religious beliefs. Mondo would be freaking out if Muslims started demanding that we somehow incorporate Sharia Law like they are trying to establish in Great Britain.
We should have a voice within 22nd street media which I don’t think they would deny us. I’m sure there are others that would participate as well. It would be great to have representation from people within all five papers. Orland’s readership might provide the greatest influence is this endeavor if we can find support there.
And Christopher, I am all for working with you to start a group to have representation in all five papers. We could all take turns writing the column…
Contact me at stardust_55@hotmail.com
27 September 2008, on 6:07 pm
Here is the post I left today. I’m not a member of the New Lenox paper so my comments will have to be reviewed first. You can have a preview.
I could retort each and every idiocy written here, but I will not even waste my time…
Those are your comments. You took some time to enter feedback but offered nothing of substance. Please retort the idiocy as as you say it exists or don’t make comments, otherwise those of us that don’t practice religious magic might believe you do so blindly and unquestionably. We can discuss the merits of our ideology in this forum but only when we cite our disagreements specifically.
Also you stated… Leave us Christians in peace. We don’t go look you up.
Well Paula you have. This is a community paper and as much as you would like to believe otherwise, this is a diverse community. Some of us view the weekly preaching that appears in this paper to be solicitation by an organized business to increase attendance and promote financial contributions, while educating readers with disinformation.
Discussion among your neighbors is now taking place. Some of us realize that we cannot allow our children to be bombarded weekly with potentially damaging religious propaganda without a counter voice being made available. This paper is a great asset to New Lenox. Unless it is the goal of the editor for this paper to be a tool for religious promotion we will continue to challenge any writing we feel is dangerous to free people.
I encourage anyone that agrees or disagrees to post their comments. We can have an educated debate if effort and thought is put into our comments. The alternative is to make pointless and childless remarks that offer nothing towards enriching our community.
27 September 2008, on 6:10 pm
Sorry, I just noticed I used site instead of cite. More ammunition for them
27 September 2008, on 7:43 pm
Christopher, I edited the correction here, but even though you used an s instead of a c for “cite” you still come across as far more intelligent than the fundies who believe that dinosaurs and humans walked the Earth at the same time 6,000 years ago.
28 September 2008, on 10:59 am
Ramen!
26 October 2008, on 6:59 pm
I have never understood why atheists always seem so angry.
Moderator says: There you go with that word you fundies are programmed to parrot and the idea that atheists are “angry”. Every fundie I encounter uses the same words and phrases. You go around spewing forth what you believe constantly with your threats of your mythological hell and you are the ones who seem quite angry. I DO understand why god believers are so angry when asked to prove the existence of their imaginary friend. You go right into persecution mode when we say we reject what you believe and tell you to keep it to yourselves, etc.
Believe what you believe, don’t believe what you don’t believe: Why should you care if other people disagree, or even want to push their own agenda?
Believe what you believe, don’t believe what you don’t believe…we don’t want to hear about your fantasy “agenda.”
Then go ahead and push your own, and relax.
Our blog, you came here. And when people write delusional drivel and ignorance in a public newspaper they can expect rebuttal from the public to make corrections to the inaccuracies you put forth as truth. We cannot relax when you are spreading lies about science and when you are pushing your supernatural sky daddy beliefs on others. And when you come to an atheist site, we are going to try to educate you on your false assumptions about atheists and the science you distort.
The anger of atheists seems to me to betray a certain amount of personal trauma: a priest bloodied your nose or shamed you; a pastor misled you into denying a sick kid medical care; a church group made you feel isolated and alone; whatever. I just don’t get it.
You don’t get it because your mind is too closed. You assumptions are wrong. The reason we reject religion is because we grew up intellectually and reasoned that the Christian religion is mythology, and as bizarre of mythology as the Egyptian, Greek and all the other ancient mythologies that were once religions. You would “get it” if you would open your minds and think rationally. Atheists reject god belief because there simply no reason to believe, no evidence, not one shred except for your ancient mythology book written by ignorant humans in ancient and ignorant times.
My experience as a Christian for more than three decades has shown me that it is the believers who cling to religion out of fear. They were taught to believe or God is going to send you to a bad, bad place forever. As for the false assumptions you make, I found the social activities at churches quite pleasant. Most churches are just country clubs and you have more atheists and agnostics in your congregations than you realize. Just you being here at an atheist blog shows that you are questioning and struggling with your own “faith”. It’s the path most of us took here, and once we started questioning, seriously…we ’saw the light” of reason and realized that the idea of a grand puppetmaster controlling every speck of life on a speck of a planet was ludicrous. Mythology.
When people don’t believe what I believe - even aggressively so - I never lose sleep over it.
Then why are you here? Hopefully you will find the light of reason as we did.
I never think those people are idiots unworthy of sharing the same oxygen I breathe.
No one ever said that Christians are unworthy of living or sharing the oxygen we breathe. That is just something you are making up which adds nothing to the discussion.
I never go out of my way to pour vitriol and derision upon them.
You came here to our blog, we didn’t seek you out. And like I said, if Mondo is going to write a public article in a public newspaper that is read by a diverse community, he is going to get criticism. If he can’t take it, then stick to his own little church world and church newsletter because most of the world does not believe what he believes. That is why others are upset with what he writes. It is ignorant and divisive.
If I think (know) I’m right, why would I get so freaked out about it?
You seem freaked out now in this little tirade of yours. It really bothers you that atheist exist. Well, you better get used to it because more and more of us are coming out of hiding.
People are always going to believe in things that I think are ignorant, because people are people.
And people have choices to express themselves…and when someone publicly expresses misinformation or and lies, then it is our right to publicly correct them.
Christians have certainly meted out their share of misery throughout history, but hey, there’ve been plenty of Stalins to balance the score.
Here we go with the Stalin example again. That has nothing to do with belief in an imaginary friend that you have zero evidence for. People like Stalin, Mao, Hitler were about power. Like the Pope, celebrity televangelists, and high officials of the churches of all beliefs is about power and control of the sheeple. The sheeple provide a very comfortable lifestyle for their pastors who do very little for their earnings.
Religion is not the scourge of humanity,
It most certainly has been throughout history. Religion is divisive. 911 is the most recent example of what people can do in the name of their sky bosses. W invading Iraq because his god told him to is another.
but any time I see spittle flying from the lips of those screaming derision at those that disagree with their point of view, I get nervous.
Like your do? Like your shouting pastors to with the blood vessels in their heads waiting to pop as they shout about how the evil atheists are destroying everything in a country that is mostly Christian. I have never encountered a spittle-flying-from-the-lips atheist. But I have encountered many a Christian who scream against homosexuals and anything else they are told by their sheep herder is wrong.
Lots of atheists make me nervous.
Because they make you question your faith. It’s the Christians who support capital punishment, guns and war. It is the Christians who elect warmonger presidents. It is the Christians who judge and condemn people for merely being different.
And as a past Christian, questioning your faith is kind of scary at first because you have that angry god baloney planted in your brain. Go ahead and question and I guarantee a lightning bolt will not come down and strike you.
There is no god. God is imaginary. Humans make their own gods based on their own experiences, where they were born and how they are raised, based on their own needs, hopes and desires. So, next time your pastor tells you about all us evil atheists who help our community, love our families, are good citizens, etc. are going to hell…ask yourself why. For what? For simply being unable to believe in a god or say some magic words? Think about it…research all the other world mythologies and you will see the similarities of human imagination.
29 October 2008, on 5:49 pm
Driveby: Lots of atheists make me nervous.
Yes, because we’re the ones setting off suicide bombs, flying planes into buildings, advocating perpetual world war, supporting torture - oh, wait…
31 October 2008, on 5:14 pm
I’m new to all of these sites so forgive my ignorance but is there anything positive that you guys share? All of the comments are filled with hate and hurt. It seems the only thing you have to talk about is your hate for people who love God.
We don’t hate the people, we hate the “sin”. And this is not, by far, the only thing we do. That’s one reason it took me a while to check your comments in the moderation queue. That the comments are filled “with hate and hurt” is a misperception on your part. It most likely coomes from the need of Christians to feel persecuted.
I respect your right to believe what you want and live how you want but I am curious as to why you don’t find positive things to share w each other on these sites. Talk about your family and kids or something that would encourage others towards something good. All you are doing is feeding off of each other’s hate .. I cannot find one happy thought in any of your posts unless it has to do with hurting someone else.. you are thriving on hurting someone. Doesn’t that disturb you?
And how many posts have you gone through? At any rate, we are not here to discuss our families, or to advise one another on the best grass seed for our lawns. We are here to watchdog the behavior of believers, especially those who wish to take away our rights or to turn this country into a theocracy.
It’s extremely disturbing to me.
And yet, you came here. We find pastor Mondo’s (as well as many others’) thoughts disturbing, but they are plastered in newspapers and on television and in the public square where atheists are hard-pressed to get equal time, if any time at all.
I am not reading anything from the Pastor that speaks of hate .. but all of your comments do. And then you claim that he is the bad guy and I am trying to understand but having a hard time.
Try being told you’re going to an eternal fire pit for not following something YOU don’t believe in, like the Invisible Pink Unicorn, and look at it from that angle. Mondo and his ilk get to blather away about an IMAGINARY god, and gets full support from the paper, the public, the country at large. There is hate in the Bible, and that is what Mondo is selling. Yet if we voice our opposition, and ask for proof of these nonsensical utterings, WE are called hateful and vile?
You talk constantly about “logic” and common sense but logic tells me that if someone has nothing to stay but hateful hurtful things that they are the ones that are unaccepting of another. All of you are passing judgement on him b/c he doesn’t believe what you believe .. it’s not the other way around. This is really weird.. i don’t understand how none of you are reading through these things and not seeing that.
Most of us used to be religious, but have been freed from our original indoctrinations. We arent’ passing judgment because of differing beliefs; we are angry that the LOGICAL belief is anathema, while the illogical one is so widely disseminated. The “unaccepting” ones are those who won’t allow us our rightful seat at the table.
These sites are hate sites.. they are not educational or encouraging or positive in any way… they are all about hate. Do you have other things in common besides hating people who don’t agree with you? Hurting them and … wow, it’s just unbelieveable … you are pointing your fingers at this man and I’m sure anyone else who believes in Jesus and calling him/them everything that you guys are being. Why don’t you redirect that energy into lifting each up and encouraging each other with something other than hate for another person? Your hearts are not right… something is wrong to make you act so horribly!
If you don’t like our site, no one is holding a gun to your head to keep you here. And our hearts are just fine, thank you. We are encouraging each other. We remind each other, and so many unnamed people out there that there IS a voice for sanity. That we are NOT alone in our thinking. And we’re gaining in numbers all the time, thanks to sites like this, in part. So run along now, if we make you uncomfortable with our non-belief in your particular Sky Daddy, and our willingness to call bullshit when we see it.
1 November 2008, on 10:54 am
Hey thanks, I appreciate what you are saying… I didn’t take the time to read through the “rules”.. my apologies. I do, however, appreciate you posting my comment.. even your comments back to me! I am disturbed by what I am hearing but I see your point in how you feel the same. Regardless, thanks for the oppty to let my voice be heard.. even while contradicting what you guys believe. Take care of yourselves.